Bus Eireann Cuts (Feb 2015)

munchkin_utd

According to the indo theres bus services to get the chop.

Towns to lose vital Bus Éireann links as cutbacks bite

Almost 100 Bus Éireann services are being cut, leaving many towns and villages without a direct bus link to the capital.

The company is making sweeping changes to routes serving swathes of the country, with 198 services each day being halved to just 105 in the affected areas.

The company plans to pull out of two routes linking Dublin with the south and south-east from the end of next month.
<snip>
Decisions have already been taken on Route 7, which runs from Dublin to Cork via Kilkenny and Clonmel, and Route 5 between Dublin and Waterford, via Wicklow and Wexford. These are run on a commercial basis, with no State subsidy.

In an interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Nolan said if the Government wanted smaller towns and villages on commercial routes to be serviced, it would have to provide a subsidy.

"We are reluctant to come out of anywhere ... but the services cannot stay on the road if we do not make money," he said.

http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/towns-to-lose-vital-bus-ireann-links-as-cutbacks-bite-31013280.html

Sounds fairly drastic that places like Bagnalstown or Roscommon town or Westport will loose a direct service to Dublin...... BUT ...... they have a rail line through their town which is no doubt part of the "problem" (splitting of passengers between rail and bus means neither have great figures) but also the solution as that rail line is their direct link to Dublin city once the bus that few are using goes.

If anything , this could be even seen as a good thing as more rail passengers means less taxpayer subsidy needed to keep the rail line afloat.
The alternative is to subsidise the expressway service and then have a long distance subsidised bus taking 100s of thousands of subsidies running in paralell to long distance train services costing millions of euros of subsidies.

Idbatterim

how many using these services are doing so with free travel passes? these services cost money...

LXFlyer

Whatever about the substantive information in the article, from a statistical perspective it is an appallingly written article.

Where Paul Melia is getting his numbers from I don't know. There are nothing like that number of services on the routes concerned.

Here are the actual timetables:

Route 5: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360752674-005.pdf
Route 7: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523306-007.pdf
Route 21: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1415360591-021.pdf

Route 5 has two daily services via Tullow and three via Arklow each way - not 75, and route 21 has two daily services between Athlone and Westport each way - not 55.

Given the changed nature of public transport in Ireland this was rather inevitable. BE cannot be expected to operate commercial services for the sake of it. The NTA will have to look at the possibility of introducing further PSO funded services.

Conway635

I was rather at a loss to understand where he got his seemingly huge number of bus services from . . .

Ultimately, if those areas cannot sustain a commercial service, it will be up to the NTA to decide if a subsadised service is warranted, and if it is, it should be tendered out to lowest cost bidder.

C635

TechnoFreek

Given that the route 5 through arklow only runs three times a day I wonder can we expect that bus to be cut completely? Hard to see how you reduce on three and still have a service.

I think the 6pm ex Dublin is the busiest service due to commuters.
I get the 4pm daily ex Dublin and while it is busy I'd generally have a free seat beside me.

Not sure what sort of numbers (total up and down) on a service you need for it to be profitable.

LXFlyer

Even the number of stops doesn't correspond to the numbers quoted!!

I imagine that what's planned is that some departures will be removed, and others have stops removed from them.

Either way that article is ruined by the statistics which are meaningless.

road_high

Anyone a draft timetable of the revised no. 7 route? I assume this will be going via the M9 motorway from Kilkenny now rather than Castlecomer/Athy hence the changes? Being completely selfish about it, this makes the service far more appealing for anyone from Kilkenny city or Clonmel to use as journey times will fall a lot vs current route.
Dublin Coach are now active on this route and once they get established will pull more customers from BE hence the changes needed.

Rothmans

road_high wrote: »

Anyone a draft timetable of the revised no. 7 route? I assume this will be going via the M9 motorway from Kilkenny now rather than Castlecomer/Athy hence the changes? Being completely selfish about it, this makes the service far more appealing for anyone from Kilkenny city or Clonmel to use as journey times will fall a lot vs current route.
Dublin Coach are now active on this route and once they get established will pull more customers from BE hence the changes needed.

I noticed that the 7 will no longer provide a direct route from Ballylinan and Castlecomer, but makes no mention of the service being cut from Athy. I wonder if the new route will be Clonmel, Kilkenny then onto the Motorway, off at Carlow, then moving onto Athy, then back onto the motorway?

EDIT: If Kavanagh's can run the same service at profit, while at the same time selling cheaper tickets, I don't see why Bus Éireann can't.

Jamie2k9

Not sure why they plan to extend route 4 to New Ross when they could easily timetable it to meet the 16 daily services between Waterford and New Ross.

Route 7 will operate between Clonmel and Dublin Airport serving 3 stops including Kilkenny.

Rothmans

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not sure why they plan to extend route 4 to New Ross when they could easily timetable it to meet the 16 daily services between Waterford and New Ross.

Route 7 will operate between Clonmel and Dublin Airport serving 3 stops including Kilkenny.

But what are the other two stops I wonder? I suspect Kilcullen and Naas, but Naas is already extremely well served, while Kilcullen has the 130 and the 4 running through it already.

TechnoFreek

It's interesting to hear that the route 5 is to be dropped when in effect it acts like two bus routes.

One that goes through tullow and west Wicklow. The other that goes through east Wicklow, arklow.

munchkin_utd

road_high wrote: »

Anyone a draft timetable of the revised no. 7 route? I assume this will be going via the M9 motorway from Kilkenny now rather than Castlecomer/Athy hence the changes? Being completely selfish about it, this makes the service far more appealing for anyone from Kilkenny city or Clonmel to use as journey times will fall a lot vs current route.
Dublin Coach are now active on this route and once they get established will pull more customers from BE hence the changes needed.

castlecomer will still have a JJ Kavanagh service to Dublin / Dublin airport 5 times a day including early morning services for the early departures.
http://jjkavanagh.ie/images/stories/timetables/Clonmel%20timetable%2030%20Jun%202014.pdf

Theres places in Ireland with 1 service per week to the nearest market town, so 5 per day to the capital direct isn't leaving it too badly off.

road_high

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not sure why they plan to extend route 4 to New Ross when they could easily timetable it to meet the 16 daily services between Waterford and New Ross.

Route 7 will operate between Clonmel and Dublin Airport serving 3 stops including Kilkenny.

I think it'll still serve Callan as its South of the motorway.

road_high

Rothmans wrote: »

I noticed that the 7 will no longer provide a direct route from Ballylinan and Castlecomer, but makes no mention of the service being cut from Athy. I wonder if the new route will be Clonmel, Kilkenny then onto the Motorway, off at Carlow, then moving onto Athy, then back onto the motorway?

EDIT: If Kavanagh's can run the same service at profit, while at the same time selling cheaper tickets, I don't see why Bus Éireann can't.

That wouldnt yield any time saving though and could be even slower as having to cut through Carlow traffic and then onto R road to athy would likely be even slower. Mention in the Kildare press of athy being cut so I think that's prob the case.

road_high

munchkin_utd wrote: »

castlecomer will still have a JJ Kavanagh service to Dublin / Dublin airport 5 times a day including early morning services for the early departures.
http://jjkavanagh.ie/images/stories/timetables/Clonmel%20timetable%2030%20Jun%202014.pdf

Theres places in Ireland with 1 service per week to the nearest market town, so 5 per day to the capital direct isn't leaving it too badly off.

I wonder how long before they switch to the motorway though too? This will make their journey times look very uncompetitive vs the competition.

Rothmans

road_high wrote: »

That wouldnt yield any time saving though and could be even slower as having to cut through Carlow traffic and then onto R road to athy would likely be even slower. Mention in the Kildare press of athy being cut so I think that's prob the case.

Yeah, I see I see. I remember hearing of a commuter route going out to Athy some time ago, but haven't heard anything since. Any time I've gotten on in Athy it's been reasonably busy. But then again, BE is competing against both Kavanagh's and a much more frequent, reliable and faster service from Irish Rail ( which is by far the most popular choice).

road_high

Rothmans wrote: »

Yeah, I see I see. I remember hearing of a commuter route going out to Athy some time ago, but haven't heard anything since. Any time I've gotten on in Athy it's been reasonably busy. But then again, BE is competing against both Kavanagh's and a much more frequent, reliable and faster service from Irish Rail ( which is by far the most popular choice).

Athy has an early morning bus to Dublin seperate to the no 7 route though.
Id imagine a lot of the athy passengers are travel pass holders also. They have a rail service so not the end of the world.

foggy_lad

Idbatterim wrote: »

how many using these services are doing so with free travel passes? these services cost money...

How many services and jobs would be cut already if free travel pass holders were removed along with the subvention?

How are the M&A routes828/828x doing? any time I have seen the buses they were empty! So where to next? Subvention is accepted and used by Bus Éireann but people don't want Bus Éireann carrying pass holders on expressway buses,

I propose that for three months all pass holders are barred from all expressway services but where people will be left without a bus Éireann service then a replacement bus Éireann PSO service must be provided! Let Bus
Éireann supply services for the people who they are getting paid to carry!


http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1704&month=Feb

Bus Éireann can confirm that a number of services on our commercial Expressway network are under review. These services are self-funded and not related to the services we operate under our Public Service Obligation (PSO) contract, for the State.

Some of the routes on our Expressway network are incurring significant losses and are unsustainable in an increasingly competitive environment, for the business. Plans are underway to reschedule the number of stops serviced on the route 7 (Dublin to Cork), and also the removal of route 5 (Dublin – New Ross – Waterford). We are in discussions with the National Transport Authority (NTA) – who license the services – to assess the service requirement in the locations affected. These discussions are ongoing.

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

Whatever about the substantive information in the article, from a statistical perspective it is an appallingly written article.

Where Paul Melia is getting his numbers from I don't know. There are nothing like that number of services on the routes concerned.

Here are the actual timetables:

Route 5: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360752674-005.pdf
Route 7: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523306-007.pdf
Route 21: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1415360591-021.pdf

Route 5 has two daily services via Tullow and three via Arklow each way - not 75, and route 21 has two daily services between Athlone and Westport each way - not 55.

Given the changed nature of public transport in Ireland this was rather inevitable. BE cannot be expected to operate commercial services for the sake of it. The NTA will have to look at the possibility of introducing further PSO funded services.

shur he has to rabel rouse some way doesn't he.

TheQuietFella

The numbers using free travel passes are staggering!

Can't sustain a business operating under those conditions.

I don't think you can use a travel pass on Kavanaghs Buses?

Open to correction on that one.

Rothmans

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The numbers using free travel passes are staggering!

Can't sustain a business operating under those conditions.

I don't think you can use a travel pass on Kavanaghs Buses?

Open to correction on that one.

I think they can, but from what I've seen, they have to fill out a form. I've seen it a few times, but I was surprised to see a few people decide to pay the fare instead of filling out the form. Madness!

road_high

Chicken and egg situation.
Only way BE will get more fee paying psssegers like myself on board is if they slash journey times, offer more frequent services to and from the major urban centres. They can't do this with the present set up of calling to every small town on route. I've never used the bus since college but lately have used the direct Dublin Coach to from kilkenny and it's exactly what Id want in a service.
I think they could run a couple of the services a day via the old route but I personally have no interest in sitting for an extra hour on a bus so every little village can be served. Particularly now there are faster alternatives.

end of the road

and then if they don't serve these places they may not have a link to the capital, unless there is a rail line near by. hard to know either way

cdebru

Rothmans wrote: »

I think they can, but from what I've seen, they have to fill out a form. I've seen it a few times, but I was surprised to see a few people decide to pay the fare instead of filling out the form. Madness!

They have to fill out a form because of the way they are paid, whereas BE get a bloc payment no matter how many people they carry on free travel passes, private companies are paid a percentage of the fare for each passenger they carry on free travel. ( I think its 33% open to correction though)A much more advantageous deal for the private operators

ClovenHoof

Having followed the 'journalism' of Paul Melia for a few years now I am actually staring to think he is mentally disabled.

He simply cannot apply rational and direct cognition to a piece of basic information and deliver the information in a truthful or direct manner.

Lenton Lane

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Having followed the 'journalism' of Paul Melia for a few years now I am actually staring to think he is mentally disabled.

He simply cannot apply rational and direct cognition to a piece of basic information and deliver the information in a truthful or direct manner.

In my opinion he is just a mouthpiece. We need journalists that will challenge and crusade, not rehash whatever line the Department want to be broadcast to the plain people etc.

horseburger

end of the road wrote: »

and then if they don't serve these places they may not have a link to the capital, unless there is a rail line near by. hard to know either way

Indeed, and one of the problems of taking away direct services to places like Dublin, from towns and villages, is that if there is another local service from those locations, to another town in those counties that has a bus service to Dublin, passengers are then relying on that local service to be on time to ensure they make the connection by bus to Dublin from whatever other town in their county goes to Dublin.

If a connection is missed, it could mean waiting another hour for the next service to Dublin.

Jamie2k9

Rothmans wrote: »

I think they can, but from what I've seen, they have to fill out a form. I've seen it a few times, but I was surprised to see a few people decide to pay the fare instead of filling out the form. Madness!

More likely they were not the correct passes! All JJ want is a name and a pass number.

Seanachai

Could be sharp elbows on a Sunday night in Carlow or Enniscorthy, it can already be a bit of a crush with the students returning to Dublin. If all the people that normally return to Dublin from Clonroche, Tullow, Bunclody etc are having to go to the next town over instead.

currins_02

cdebru wrote: »

They have to fill out a form because of the way they are paid, whereas BE get a bloc payment no matter how many people they carry on free travel passes, private companies are paid a percentage of the fare for each passenger they carry on free travel. ( I think its 33% open to correction though)A much more advantageous deal for the private operators

My understanding (I know one private who is in the scheme quite well and this is how he works) is the NTA stopped paying "per head" a few years back. The NTA now pay an en bloc payment to each operator based on past and future projected use (and yes that is based on a reduced per head payment). Many privates continue, as is their wont, to record passes so they know exactly how they are running. There has been at least one case of a private opting out of the scheme as numbers of pass users rose drastically on their service but payment remained static (as since the scheme was "closed" there is no review mechanism for the payment granted). The only way they knew they were loosing out was by have records of exactly who was travelling, when and where to. It was more economic for them to drop concession passengers altogether and just rely on fare paying passengers.

It also acts as a minor deterrent to fraud as many get nervous when details are recorded.

It made news in late 2014 too that the scheme's closure was challenged in court by a couple of privates who won their cases and had to be allowed into the scheme.

slackerdude

Also it costs more to travel on Bus Eireann from Limerick to Newcastle West than it does to travel from Dublin to Limerick on the Dublin Coach service. Sadly, the Dublin Coach company will not operate beyond Limerick to Kerry probably due to the lack of a motorway between Limerick and Kerry.

bk

slackerdude wrote: »

Also it costs more to travel on Bus Eireann from Limerick to Newcastle West than it does to travel from Dublin to Limerick on the Dublin Coach service. Sadly, the Dublin Coach company will not operate beyond Limerick to Kerry probably due to the lack of a motorway between Limerick and Kerry.

Actually private companies do operate services off motorways, for instance CityLinks Galway - Limerick - Cork service, CityLink Galway to Killarney service and CityLinks Galway to Clifden service.

In fact given that CityLink now has a new Dublin Airport to Limerick route, perhaps in time they will extend it to Kerry.

road_high

The route via Castlecomer is not going to be altered until June according to local media to allow time for more consultation.

foggy_lad

Rothmans wrote: »

I think they can, but from what I've seen, they have to fill out a form. I've seen it a few times, but I was surprised to see a few people decide to pay the fare instead of filling out the form. Madness!

Afaik JJ Kavanagh's actually check the pps numbers provided on the slip of paper regularly to ensure that passes used are genuine and valid.

stehyl15

Bus Eireann should be scrapped altogher and regionalised for example have a local authority running bus transport in each county. Buses should only connect towns with no railway station theres no point on the state running a bus between two towns served by a rail connection. Routes should be run to towns with no rail comection for example with a route like Dublin-Donegal could take the train to Sligo and then make the onward journey to Donegal. It works in a lot of europe why shouldn't it work in Ireland.

horseburger

stehyl15 wrote: »

Bus Eireann should be scrapped altogher and regionalised for example have a local authority running bus transport in each county. Buses should only connect towns with no railway station theres no point on the state running a bus between two towns served by a rail connection. Routes should be run to towns with no rail comection for example with a route like Dublin-Donegal could take the train to Sligo and then make the onward journey to Donegal. It works in a lot of europe why shouldn't it work in Ireland.

I'm not sure that would work considering the higher price of train fares compared to bus services.

If they made that change to the Dublin Donegal bus service, then, that would mean that the service that the 30 bus does to and from the airport, would end. The other aspect is that the Dublin Donegal 30 bus also takes people from Bus Aras and the airport to places like Butlersbridge, Belturbet, Derrylin, Bellanaleck and Enniskillen, which are not covered on the Derry - Donegal - Sligo service.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1415719270-030.pdf

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1415968119-480.pdf

Many commuters, who are from towns with train services to and from Dublin, opt for bus services in and out of Dublin instead of the train services.

Matthews Coaches, as an example, run a very regular service throughout the day from Parnell Street Dublin, to Drogheda and Dundalk and a very regular daily service from both towns to Dublin. They also run daily services to and from Dublin and Laytown and Bettystown.

http://commuter.matthews.ie/images/pdf/DundalkRev9Oct2014WEBPAGE.PDF

http://commuter.matthews.ie/images/pdf/BettystownOct2014Rev003WEBPAGE.PDF

Bus Éireann also runs a very regular bus service to and from Dundalk, Drogheda and Dublin.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1358427979-100X.pdf

The other difference is that Bus Éireann/Translink Ulster Bus along with various private bus companies, like Aircoach, Go Bus, City Link, JJ Kavanagh's and Dublin Coach run bus services throughout the night between Dublin and Belfast, from Donegal to Dublin, from Derry to Dublin, from Cork to Dublin, from Galway to Dublin and from Limerick to Dublin, long after the last train services each night between the cities, have stopped.

These bus companies also run services daily at night, from Dublin to each of these cities, much later than the train services.

LXFlyer

Following on from all of the nonsensical hyperbole that was published about these changes (not helped by the shoddy journalism that pre-empted it), the inevitable NTA Review of the implications of Route 5 being cancelled has now been published.

And, as I predicted this will result in additional PSO services.

In essence the plans involve the withdrawal of:

- 1 commercial Bus Eireann service in each direction on weekdays (3 on Sundays) between Dublin & Waterford in either direction via Tullow, Enniscorthy and New Ross
- 1 commercial Bus Eireann service in each direction on weekdays (none on Sundays) between Dublin & Rosslare in either direction via Tullow, Enniscorthy and Wexford
- 3 commercial Bus Eireann services in each direction on weekdays (one on Sundays) between Dublin & Waterford in either direction via Arklow, Enniscorthy and New Ross

These will be replaced with:
- Extending the existing commuter Bus Eireann PSO route 132 service to start at Bunclody rather than Tullow
- Add an additional morning Bus Eireann PSO route 132 service from Bunclody to Dublin and late afternoon return
- Add two additional return Bus Eireann PSO services from Dublin to Tullow during the day
- Extend two return Bus Eireann commercial route 4 services to operate Dublin Airport-Dublin-Waterford-New Ross and v.v.
- New rural transport services from New Ross and Clonroche to Enniscorthy to connect with Bus Eireann, Wexford Bus or Irish Rail services to Dublin and Waterford
- New rural transport services from Tullow via Bunclody to Enniscorthy to connect with Bus Eireann services to/from Dublin and JJ Kavanagh services to/from Carlow

Detailed timetables are included, and it's clear that nowhere is being abandoned - additional PSO funded services will fill the gaps in those locations that no longer have a service once route 5 is withdrawn.

Full details are available from the link quoted below:

Údarás Náisiúnta Iompair, National Transport Authority
Latest Updates
19th March 2015

Review of Bus Éireann Expressway Route 5 withdrawal

March 19, 2015

The National Transport Authority today (March 19, 2015) published its Review of Withdrawal of Bus Éireann’s licenced Route 5 Expressway service (Waterford to Dublin via Wexford corridor).

In the Review, the Authority undertakes a detailed analysis of the impact of the removal of Bus Éireann Expressway Route 5 on the affected towns’ public transport links. It determines that some of these links should be maintained to meet a social need, and it proposes that these links are established by:
1) Reconfiguration and additional services on Route 132 to serve Tullow and Bunclody connecting to Dublin
2) New rural transport services to connect the towns of Clonroche, Bunclody and Tullow to Enniscorthy and New Ross for onward connections to Dublin, Wexford and Waterford.

The Next Steps, as determined by the Authority are:

1. NTA to procure the new rural transport services
2. Bus Éireann to put in place the reconfigured 132 service
3. NTA to put in place the connecting rural transport services
4. Bus Éireann to commence amended Expressway Route 4.


All to be co-ordinated in advance of the withdrawal of Bus Éireann Expressway Route 5.
The Review of Withdrawal of Bus Éireann’s licenced Route 5 Expressway service (Waterford to Dublin via Wexford corridor Report is available to download and read.

For more information see HERE

I'd imagine that a similar review will take place to replace Bus Eireann commercial services routes 7 and 21 with new PSO options in the locations that will be impacted by their re-routing or withdrawal.

end of the road

well, lets hope they will be as much use to those effected by the with-drawn routes. we'l wait and see

Seanachai

end of the road wrote: »

well, lets hope they will be as much use to those effected by the with-drawn routes. we'l wait and see

It's a relief for sure, I can't afford to drive at the moment, the old phantom 132 is coming to the rescue . It used to tail the five and it was less packed as it was carrying people that wanted to go through Harold's Cross as opposed to Tallaght. I know they need the numbers to justify the service but the students can be noisy enough at times. Nothing as bad as being in the crossfire of a conversation with the seats in front of you about what happened at the weekend and you've forgotten your headphones. No offence to the students here.

foggy_lad

Interesting to note that the new PSO services will accept free travel pass holders without payment of any concessionary fare and this is to include the private Wexford local link services. This appears to be opposite to the direction the NTA appeared to be going previously with other privately operated PSO services.

3.3 Fares
The fares on the proposed reconfigured Route 132 will not be more than what is currently paid on the Bus Éireann Route 5 services and the same ticket range will be on offer. Free Travel Passholders will be able to continue to travel for free on this service.
The fares on the new rural transport services will be in the same order as those that are currently charged on Wexford Local link’s services. The details will be made available at a later date.
Free Travel Passholders will be able to travel for free on this service. The Authority will seek a further payment from the Department of Social Protection to compensate for the extra free travel passenger journeys on Wexford Local link services.

(emphasis by me)

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Interesting to note that the new PSO services will accept free travel pass holders without payment of any concessionary fare and this is to include the private Wexford local link services. This appears to be opposite to the direction the NTA appeared to be going previously with other privately operated PSO services.

(emphasis by me)

just a guess, but i'd imagine its to get the numbers. no free travel, little use, those who need left with no access to public transport. was the same done for the south wexford rail replacement service i wonder?

Jamie2k9

- Extend two return Bus Eireann commercial route 4 services to operate Dublin Airport-Dublin-Waterford-New Ross and v.v.

I really can't see why this is necessary.

currins_02

2 Private operators took and won separate but parallel legal challenges before Christmas to get into the free travel scheme, challenging the legality of the cap on it. One was Martin Leydon in Cavan for his Swanlinbar route and the other was McGonagle Bus Company in Donegal on their replacement for the former Lough Swilly Derry-Buncrana service.

http://www.northernsound.ie/news/private-operator-in-west-cavan-wins-fight-on-free-travel-passes/

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/localmediareports/weekending29november/freetravelschemerestoredforelderlyanddisabl/

http://www.highlandradio.com/2014/11/19/use-of-travel-passes-restored-on-buncrana-to-derry-bus-route/

As such that would seem to change the landscape in terms of whether services (new, old or amended) are in any way prevented from joining the scheme I would imagine

munchkin_utd

currins_02 wrote: »

2 Private operators took and won separate but parallel legal challenges before Christmas to get into the free travel scheme, challenging the legality of the cap on it. One was Martin Leydon in Cavan for his Swanlinbar route and the other was McGonagle Bus Company in Donegal on their replacement for the former Lough Swilly Derry-Buncrana service.
<snip>

I dont see where its mentioned that they won their legal challenge, just that the services were taken under the wing of the free travel scheme.

small but subtle difference

currins_02

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I dont see where its mentioned that they won their legal challenge, just that the services were taken under the wing of the free travel scheme.

small but subtle difference

Whatever works for you.

In my opinion, small, subtle but in the context of the point I was making largely irrelevant.

As with many things here unless there is a complete transcript and diatribe posts are nit picked.

Both operators, working independently largely unaware of the other had legal teams working on this. Complaints were lodged with the EU commission (and as per the above link) it ruled in favour of the complainants in that it was unfair to block entry to the scheme. There was also legal papers lodged here in our courts. At a very late stage, prior to proceedings beginning, the state conceded their position and allowed the operators into the system. Can be spun whatever way works for anyone, but in my view they undertook a legal process at EU and local level and achieved their goal (despite all indications initially being it would never happen) - in my view they won, we'll agree in a small and subtle way to disagree if that works.

For reference there were a number of grounds for the proceedings and complaints including (and pardon my non legal wording):
- System was "closed" to new entrants which is anti competitive, a barrier to new services and possibly in breach of EU law (which was largely the point upheld by the EU)
- System was "capped" and payments frozen to incumbent operators, since that a small number of members have ceased trading while a further small number have opted out of the system due to non-viable levels of payments, Where does the surplus created go?
- In the case of McGonagle in Donegal the service was a direct replacement for the collapsed Lough Swilly Service but they challenged why, subject to meeting some level of criteria, they could not take up the money (in part or in full) previously allocated to the Swilly service (which ceased when company went belly up, was, allegedly the oldest transport company in Europe and served rural Donegal which is largely ignored by Bus Eireann). McGonagles link Buncrana with Derry, Buncrana is the 2nd or 3rd biggest town in Donegal yet has no Bus Eireann links at rural or national level and relies of private operators like McGonagle, NorthWest Busways, John McGinley Coaches etc. The campaign to get the pass back was high profile in the area and seemed to enjoy unanimous political support from all parties in that area.

In the context of this thread, I was inferring it will probably become common for new services to be included in the scheme again where a need exists as these operators have proven if a valid case is made the system can be beaten as it were. In areas poorly served by the state sponsored CIE group (not condemning their need to be commerical on certain routes etc) the population deserve some level of service and allowing use of passes would be a minimum IMO.

That's not withstanding who the passes are issued to etc needs massive overhaul.

Now, back to the thread, I suggest....

Jamie2k9

New timetable for X7

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1434530922-007X.pdf

Didn't notice route 4 had changed and good to see the additional college services added. Lots of non stop services to compete with IE and Dublin Coach on Sundays.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

New timetable for X7

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1434530922-007X.pdf

Didn't notice route 4 had changed and good to see the additional college services added. Lots of non stop services to compete with IE and Dublin Coach on Sundays.

Those college services were always operated but not listed on the timetable, the NTA apparently now insist on these auxiliary services being added to the timetables.

LXFlyer

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/replacement-bus-services-following-changes-to-expressway-route-7-operational-from-sunday-28-june-2015/

Replacement bus services following changes to Expressway Route 7 – Operational from Sunday 28 June 2015

24/06/15

The National Transport Authority, in conjunction with Bus Éireann, Carlow-Kilkenny Locallink and Cork Locallink, has put in place a number of bus services following changes to Bus Éireann Expressway Route 7, which no longer will provide services to a number of locations including Cork, Fermoy, Mitchelstown, Carrick-on-Suir, Castlecomer and Athy from Sunday next (June 28).

The Authority has extended Bus Éireann Route 245 for people travelling between Clonmel and Cork also serving Ardfinnan, Clogheen & Ballyporeen. Cork Locallink will additionally provide services on Route 245C giving an enhanced level of service between Mitchelstown and Fermoy via Kildorrery & Glanworth.

The Authority has introduced a new connecting service (Route 817C) provided by Carlow-Kilkenny Locallink between Carrick-on-Suir and Grangemockler where passengers can change on to Route 717 provided by JJ Kavanagh & Sons and revised Route X7 provided by Bus Éireann for onward travel to Callan, Kilkenny and Dublin City.

The revised services will come into operation on Sunday next; June 28, and the Free Travel Pass will be accepted.

The Authority is also in the process of procuring additional services on Route 817 between Kilkenny and Dublin City and between Naas and Castlecomer including serving intermediate locations at Moneenroe, Ballylinan, Athy and Kilcullen. To ensure continuity of service for the affected locations, temporary arrangements have been put in place for Bus Éireann to provide these services pending the completion of the procurement process.

Kildare South Dublin Locallink is procuring a service on behalf of the Authority that provides a number of services between Castledermot and Naas.

All these additional services are being provided by the Authority, with funding allocated by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Paschal Donohue T.D.

Full details of the relevant services are found at the following links:

Bus Éireann Route 245 incorporating Local Link Cork services

Local Link Carlow-Kilkenny Route 817C

Bus Éireann Expressway Route X7 revised timetable

JJ Kavanagh & Sons Route 717:

Route 817 Kilkenny – Dublin City & Naas – Castlecomer


The National Transport Authority undertook a review of the effect of the changes to Expressway Route 7 which is available here:
“Review of withdrawal of Bus Éireann and J.J. Kavanagh licensed services from locations along the Clonmel to Dublin and Waterford to Dublin corridors”