The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

ArchXStanton

Billy86 wrote: »

Russian mercenaries are now arriving in Venezuela as they did Ukraine - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

So tell me, which is it? Was Putin wrong to invade Ukraine to topple the government, or is he wrong to invade Venezuela to stop the government from being toppled? Or are you just flat out ok with whatever Putin does, and the blood he spills on foreign soil, because it's Putin?

To answer your whataboutism in advance (let's be honest, we all know it's coming as an attempt to not answer), I am not a fan of other western governments doing so either... so please now attempt to answer the question above.

Great news hopefully they prevent it becoming another Syria or Libya

Dohnjoe

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Great news hopefully they prevent it becoming another Syria or Libya

Venezuela is in a death-spiral. Chavez and his successor Maduro have economically destroyed what should be an oil-rich country. They made ridiculous populist economic decisions instead of listening to actual economists. Maduro started printing cash like pre-war Germany. The population is starting to starve and 10% have already left. Foreign powers and mercenaries "protecting" Maduro aren't helping the situation.

As for this "imperialist boogeymen" narrative, if some power wanted to destroy Venezuela, they literally couldn't have done a better job, at a faster pace than Maduro and his insane policies

ArchXStanton

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Venezuela is in a death-spiral. Chavez and his successor Maduro have economically destroyed what should be an oil-rich country. They made ridiculous populist economic decisions instead of listening to actual economists. Maduro started printing cash like pre-war Germany. The population is starting to starve and 10% have already left. Foreign powers and mercenaries "protecting" Maduro aren't helping the situation.

As for this "imperialist boogeymen" narrative, if some power wanted to destroy Venezuela, they literally couldn't have done a better job, at a faster pace than Maduro's insane policies have accomplished

And yet we have the US and its lackeys pretending to be oh so concerned about Venezuelan citizens, a country theyve hit hard with sanctions, complete and utter horse****, they regularily turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia and the war crimes of Israel. They are literally salivating at the thought of attacking Venezuela, the clue is in your post, 3 letter word, rhymes with spoil

Billy86

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Great news hopefully they prevent it becoming another Syria or Libya

So you do agree then that he was wrong to invade Ukraine in order to topple the government.

Dohnjoe

ArchXStanton wrote: »

And yet we have the US and its lackeys pretending to be oh so concerned about Venezuelan citizens, a country theyve hit hard with sanctions, complete and utter horse****, they regularily turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia and the war crimes of Israel. They are literally salivating at the thought of attacking Venezuela, the clue is in your post, 3 letter word, rhymes with spoil

Forget all that, do you support Maduro and what he's doing to the Venezuelan people?

If no, then why would you support a foreign power lending him a hand?

This might seem like an alien concept, but you can criticise the US/UK/Israel/West AND you can also criticise Putin at the same time

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

ArchXStanton

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Forget all that, do you support Maduro and what he's doing to the Venezuelan people?

If no, then why would you support a foreign power lending him a hand?

This might seem like an alien concept, but you can criticise the US/UK/Israel/West AND you can also criticise Putin at the same time

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Would he be my first choice as a president? Probably not, but I'd respect the Venezuelan people's choice, it doesn't concern us, but what I can't stand is a country that has a long history of staging coups and the resulting bloodbaths until they get their "guy" in, its wrong, its amoral and I'm pretty sure it's against international law.,yet they routinely get a free pass. Question for you, if Russia didn't get involved in Syria what state do you reckon that place would be in right now?

Dinarius

This thread makes me laugh.

How many Putin-lovers here would live in Russia? Right.

Both Russia and Venezuela should be like Norway. All three countries are natural-resources rich beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.

But, using those resources, which ONE of those three countries has set itself and its people up for generations to come? Right.

And which ONE of the three has not seen those resources removed from the hands of their people by a handful of individuals? Right.

Venezuela should be the Norway of South America.

Russia has an economy the size of Belgium and Netherlands combined. In global terms it is a side-show. The body-builder muscles his way around the globe throwing shapes to distract attention from the obscenity (economically) that a small elite has made Russia.

Yes, many Western leaders are little better than him.

But, wake the ***k up when it comes to Putin.

D.

Gatling

Billy86 wrote: »

Russian mercenaries are now arriving in Venezuela as they did Ukraine - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

You would think after what happened to russians when they attacked a Kurdish /American controlled area in Syria they wouldn't be wanting to get close to where they will be likely to be met with similar forces if they try to get involved with the local population of venezuela

ArchXStanton

Gatling wrote: »

You would think after what happened to russians when they attacked a Kurdish /American controlled area in Syria they wouldn't be wanting to get close to where they will be likely to be met with similar forces if they try to get involved with the local population of venezuela

Any sign of that link I requested from you a few months ago when you stated the US were in Syria by permission of the Kurds? You didn't pluck that one from your hole by any chance? Also are you admitting this is a coup in your last sentence?

Supernintento Chalmers

Billy86 wrote: »

Not a legit election because it was not recognised before or after, and because it was done with invading Russian forces 'observing' over the election. Why do you think Russia were so dead set on lying over and over about their troops invading Ukraine at this time?

If the British army invaded Ardee "on a holiday" and over 80% of the locals suddenly realised they wanted to join Northern Ireland and the UK, I doubt your tune would be the same. Then again it is highly unlikely, given Ardee isn't a crucial access point to international waters for the UK.

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody wants Ardee.

Spannerplank

Discodog wrote: »

Good to see him continuing to support ruthless dictators.

Like Assad who the Syrians support wholeheartedly?

Spannerplank

Discodog wrote: »

Or a popular uprising against a dictator. Pot, Kettle, Putin, Ukraine.

What about that popular uprising in Bahrain that was crushed by Saudi tanks because it was actually a threat to US I tell of the Gulf state? That was and is an authoritarian dictatorship. The locals rise up and were butchered under America's eye.
or is that just "whataboutery"?

Discodog

Spannerplank wrote: »

What about that popular uprising in Bahrain that was crushed by Saudi tanks because it was actually a threat to US I tell of the Gulf state? That was and is an authoritarian dictatorship. The locals rise up and were butchered under America's eye.
or is that just "whataboutery"?

The very definition of it

Dohnjoe

As mentioned, this thread doesn't seem to be about Putin at all

Spannerplank

Billy86 wrote: »

Russian mercenaries are now arriving in Venezuela as they did Ukraine - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

So tell me, which is it? Was Putin wrong to invade Ukraine to topple the government, or is he wrong to invade Venezuela to stop the government from being toppled? Or are you just flat out ok with whatever Putin does, and the blood he spills on foreign soil, because it's Putin?

To answer your whataboutism in advance (let's be honest, we all know it's coming as an attempt to not answer), I am not a fan of other western governments doing so either... so please now attempt to answer the question above.

One has to ask the question, were these fighters invited by the Venezuelan government or did they just invade?

A few months ago two Russian nuclear bombers flew to and based in Venezuela and they were obviously invited.

Sure a bit of East-west tension in the western hemisphere will be a we!come change.

Spannerplank

Dohnjoe wrote: »

That's largely a false narrative.

The election wasn't considered a real election, nor was it properly monitored. As such, the world (with the exception of about 7 countries) rejected it. The Kremlin sparked a war in Eastern Ukraine, directly supplying men, tanks, armaments, anti-aircraft equipment, etc

Is Crimea under foreign occupation against the will of the majority of the population?

Just asking, like because that's what it sounds like.

one world order

Venezuela is a mess because of US imposed sanctions against the country. The government put the interests of its people first and now is paying the price by those that control the world.

ArchXStanton

one world order wrote: »

Venezuela is a mess because of US imposed sanctions against the country. The government put the interests of its people first and now is paying the price by those that control the world.

Now the bank of England is withholding their gold from them. Unreal

Gatling

one world order wrote: »

Venezuela is a mess because of US imposed sanctions against the country.

Wrong

ArchXStanton

Gatling wrote: »

Wrong

Right...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-us-sanctions-united-nations-oil-pdvsa-a8748201.html

ArchXStanton

Gatling wrote: »

Wrong

Weres that link by the way? Are you going to run away for the 50th time?

Spannerplank

Dinarius wrote: »

This thread makes me laugh.

How many Putin-lovers here would live in Russia? Right.

Both Russia and Venezuela should be like Norway. All three countries are natural-resources rich beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.

But, using those resources, which ONE of those three countries has set itself and its people up for generations to come? Right.

And which ONE of the three has not seen those resources removed from the hands of their people by a handful of individuals? Right.

Venezuela should be the Norway of South America.

Russia has an economy the size of Belgium and Netherlands combined. In global terms it is a side-show. The body-builder muscles his way around the globe throwing shapes to distract attention from the obscenity (economically) that a small elite has made Russia.

Yes, many Western leaders are little better than him.

But, wake the ***k up when it comes to Putin.

D.

Venezuela should be the Norway of South America you say.


Well Libya was the Norway of Africa. Electricity was free, as was education and healthcare. Petrol was 10 cents a gallon and newlyweds were gifted £20,000 to get them started in their new lives. And this was all on the state and the oil wealth. So Libyans too were sorted for life until NATO wanted that oil and so wrecked the country and turned the richest and most stable African country into a graveyard.

I take it you want the same for Venezuela.

ArchXStanton

Spannerplank wrote: »

Venezuela should be the Norway of South America you say.


Well Libya was the Norway of Africa. Electricity was free, as was education and healthcare. Petrol was 10 cents a gallon and newlyweds were gifted £20,000 to get them started in their new lives. And this was all on the state and the oil wealth. So Libyans too were sorted for life until NATO wanted that oil and so wrecked the country and turned the richest and most stable African country into a graveyard.

I take it you want the same for Venezuela.

The sad part is they do, too many amerika fcuk yeahhh movies as kids

Spannerplank

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It was popular protest, hundreds of thousands marched in the capital repeatedly, people with kids, buggies, etc. When it later turned violent, the far right element became more involved. Eastern Ukraine (Dornbas, etc) was largely pro-Russian. The rest of the country, not so much.

In the subsequent elections in Ukraine, the two far-right candidates got less than 2% of the vote between them. The "neo-nazi" thing was mostly Kremlin propaganda. For their troubles, Putin annexed Crimea, seized Sevastopol deep-water port, sheltered internationally-wanted Yanukovych and sparked a war in Eastern Ukraine.

Oh come on Dohnjoe, you know as well as anyone that idiots in Washigton were checkmated in Crimea the same way they were in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria. The Americans never learn. They just think if they say "we're gonna kick ass" then it will just go the way they want.

The bigger their losses and cockups on the battlefield abroad the bigger and more stupid and useless their displays of military might before football games at home.

monty_python

Gatling wrote: »

You would think after what happened to russians when they attacked a Kurdish /American controlled area in Syria they wouldn't be wanting to get close to where they will be likely to be met with similar forces if they try to get involved with the local population of venezuela

Have you a link to read about that?
I don't know anything about that so id like to read about it

Gatling

monty_python wrote: »

Have you a link to read about that?
I don't know anything about that so id like to read about it

Basically American forces were dug in with Kurdish forces at an oil production area and 600-1000 Russians private contractors mounted a full on assault with heavy weapons and heavy armour ,but got aniliated in a few hours ,oddly enough Russia kept very quite about the situation and losses .

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/battle-syria-us-russian-mercenaries-commandos-islamic-state-a8370781.html

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19335/american-general-in-syria-confirms-us-forces-killed-hundreds-of-russians-in-massive-battle

Spannerplank

Dinarius wrote: »

This thread makes me laugh.

How many Putin-lovers here would live in Russia? Right.

Both Russia and Venezuela should be like Norway. All three countries are natural-resources rich beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.

But, using those resources, which ONE of those three countries has set itself and its people up for generations to come? Right.

And which ONE of the three has not seen those resources removed from the hands of their people by a handful of individuals? Right.

Venezuela should be the Norway of South America.

Russia has an economy the size of Belgium and Netherlands combined. In global terms it is a side-show. The body-builder muscles his way around the globe throwing shapes to distract attention from the obscenity (economically) that a small elite has made Russia.

Yes, many Western leaders are little better than him.

But, wake the ***k up when it comes to Putin.

D.

If Russia is such a weakling, economy wise, the size of Belgium and the Netherlands, then why are you so worried about them?

If their military is so backward and dependent on clueless, starving conscripts then why is the US spending $900 billion a year against these losers?

Dohnjoe

Spannerplank wrote: »

Well Libya was the Norway of Africa. Electricity was free, as was education and healthcare. Petrol was 10 cents a gallon and newlyweds were gifted £20,000 to get them started in their new lives. And this was all on the state and the oil wealth. So Libyans too were sorted for life until NATO wanted that oil and so wrecked the country and turned the richest and most stable African country into a graveyard.

The revisionism in this thread is incredible

It was a dictatorship, high corruption, high unemployment, crumbling infrastructure, not a particularly fantastic place to live. Floating on a sea of oil meant the country was "better off" than many counterparts, but 10's of billions of what should have been national wealth was siphoned off to Gaddafi and family (estimates of up to 200 billion). He had built up relatively "decent" relationships with various Western countries prior to 2011, oil exports, mainly to Italy, Germany and France prior to the conflict haven't changed much (except for overall volume which has suffered). He went full hammer and tongs after the protesters during the Arab Spring so the world pretty much cut him loose. Even Russia and China didn't veto the UN resolution that authorised force.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The sad part is they do, too many amerika fcuk yeahhh movies as kids

Interesting how many once left wing ideologies have joined Team America.

That said I remember when the left was entirely anti-EU.

Dohnjoe

Spannerplank wrote: »

The Americans never learn

Can you explain how you characterise a whole nation and it's history as a person?