Daytime car ban for Patrick Street

whisky_galore

Will this be a disaster I wonder? I rarely drive into the city during business hours but looks like a right pain in the h*le if I have to.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/cork-news/daytime-car-ban-for-patrick-street/

moyners

Just speaking for myself but it won't make much difference IMO. I usually avoid Patrick St. at all costs anyway. There's loads of other ways to get across the city without pana.

evilivor

I presume this will be enforced with the same lack of rigour as that on Oliver Plunket Street.

Viper_JB

I wouldn't really care tbh but they need to sort out the parking issue in the city, cars are strewn and parked everywhere and no one seems to be doing anything about it, can't remember the last time I went into the city and didn't see a car dangerously parked in cycle lane, on a corner, on double yellow lines, double and triple parked...is there not people who are paid to deal with this?

moyners

Viper_JB wrote: »

I wouldn't really care tbh but they need to sort out the parking issue in the city, cars are strewn and parked everywhere and no one seems to be doing anything about it, can't remember the last time I went into the city and didn't see a car dangerously parked in cycle lane, on a corner, on double yellow lines, double and triple parked...is there not people who are paid to deal with this?

Where it really annoys the hell out of me is at Coal Quay. Can't think of anywhere else where the council spends a fortune putting in place a really attractive plaza and it's usually covered with cars. Nobody ever seems to do anything about it, especially when the traffic warden clocks off for the evening - and it's right outside a Garda station!

Going Strong

evilivor wrote: »

I presume this will be enforced with the same lack of rigour as that on Oliver Plunket Street.

Last week, I watched this cheeky cnut going along Phoenix Street and then nipping up the top half of Smith Street and on to Oliver Plunkett Street. No danger of meeting oncoming traffic as the barriers were up at the Parnell Place end. :rolleyes:

the beer revolu

moyners wrote: »

Where it really annoys the hell out of me is at Coal Quay. Can't think of anywhere else where the council spends a fortune putting in place a really attractive plaza and it's usually covered with cars. Nobody ever seems to do anything about it, especially when the traffic warden clocks off for the evening - and it's right outside a Garda station!

This drives me mad, daily.
I see more and more people parking with all 4 wheels on the footpath, all over the city - and often on regular footpaths, not just on large paved areas.

OT, I live in city centre and very rarely drive on Patrick's Street.

Going Strong

the beer revolu wrote: »

This drives me mad, daily.
I see more and more people parking with all 4 wheels on the footpath, all over the city - and often on regular footpaths, not just on large paved areas.

Linked to that, drivers treating the narrow entrance to Daunt Square, outside Argos, like it's a challenge to go as fast as possible through there. Even overtaking parked buses on Grand Parade so they're completely blindsided to any pedestrians crossing over but they swing in regardless.

Dbu

If the council decide that this is the way forward, then it will be a disaster, going from their recent ideas,
Clueless

pwurple

Handy... sure why would we want anyone going to the city center when there's Mahon Point they can flood to instead.

And what about traders? Patrick street has loading bays. God forbid you ever want to pass some stock into the shop during normal working hours?

Viper_JB

Dbu wrote: »

If the council decide that this is the way forward, then it will be a disaster, going from their recent ideas,
Clueless

No doubt they will probably waste a ton of money for little to no results.

I think the city would be a much nicer place to be if there were little to no cars allowed in the center, something like a luas service, buses and bikes only - I like driving, but not in places like that more frustration then it's worth and it only seems to be getting worse. Only problem is in terms of public transport we're essentially still in the dark ages.

Karl Stein

I think it's a good idea. Oliver Plunkett St is pleasant to use as a pedestrian street whereas before it was just a choked up road with queuing cars and exhaust fumes.

cgcsb

Sounds good but be warned the hazards of what sounds good and what the powers that be actually do. Dublin's College Green for example has a car ban between 07:00-10:00 and from 16:00-19:00. Signs for miles telling you not to drive that way, so what do people do? swan right on through college green in their car in the middle of rush hour.

What you'll need is camera enforcement, license plate recognition software and automated fines. The gardaí can't/won't enforce rules that they have no intention of following themselves.

FrStone

The street is plenty wide enough for pedestrians, there is no need to ban cars on it at all.

Will buses be banned as well? It would be mad banning them, as it would only add to journey times.

What if someone parks on Patrick Street before the ban?

Knasher

moyners wrote: »

Where it really annoys the hell out of me is at Coal Quay. Can't think of anywhere else where the council spends a fortune putting in place a really attractive plaza and it's usually covered with cars. Nobody ever seems to do anything about it, especially when the traffic warden clocks off for the evening - and it's right outside a Garda station!

I've actually seen the Gardai outside ticketing after hours there. And somebody in another thread suggested that they are at it regularly. But that they wait for it to fill up with cars and then ticket the lot of them at once.

FrStone wrote: »

Will buses be banned as well? It would be mad banning them, as it would only add to journey times.

As I understand it, they won't. In fact I believe they are only banning private cars, taxies won't be effected either. It sounds like a nightmare to enforce, but apparently that is their current plan.

Subpopulus

The main purpose of this is to speed up busses, and prepare Cork to one day have BRT. For any of the busses using Patrick Street, this part of the journey is generally the slowest. The street doesn't have much in the way of traffic capacity. There's 4/5 traffic lights along its length and a nasty slow bend to get onto the Grand Parade. The traffic lights were all programmed out of sequence, with the purpose of making the street very slow, and thereby deterring private motor vehicles from using it. Trouble is, it's public transport that is the main loser out of this.

I used to get the 208 bus from St. Lukes and on several occasions the bus would often take 15 minutes to get along the street. I spent 20 minutes on Patricks street one morning with particularly bad traffic. So removing the cars from this will speed up the busses quite a lot. It'll also benefit cyclists, walkers, and in general improve Patricks Street.

This is long overdue. It was first proposed in the late 1970s, but it's only now that we're getting around to it. To be honest it's amazing that the main shopping street - the heart of the retail core - still has private cars trundling down it, and still has on-street parking. It was proposed most recently in the City Centre Movement Strategy, which is well worth a read.

http://www.corkchamber.ie/UserFiles/file/Arup-MVA%20CCMS%20Presentation%20to%20Stakeholders_27%20Nov%202012%20(2).pdf

How they plan to do it, I'm not sure, but the way traffic is enforced in Cork they'll have to take traffic management a lot more seriously than the would have done in the past. It might only be in effect during rush hour - 7-10am and 4-7pm, or something to that effect.

thomil

Knasher wrote: »

As I understand it, they won't. In fact I believe they are only banning private cars, taxies won't be effected either. It sounds like a nightmare to enforce, but apparently that is their current plan.

Enforcing that should be easy. Simply use retractable bollards like they're already in place at the Oliver Plunkett St./Parnell Place intersection. Give the people who are entitled to use it chip cards to lower the bollards, and the issue should be resolved.

as far as the issue itself is concerned, it is way overdue, and should be implemented much more radically, rather than just start with one day a week. That part is even more of a traffic nightmare than the rest of the city.

KCAccidental

thomil wrote: »

Enforcing that should be easy. Simply use retractable bollards like they're already in place at the Oliver Plunkett St./Parnell Place intersection. Give the people who are entitled to use it chip cards to lower the bollards, and the issue should be resolved.

will be fun times watching this a few times a day for the first couple of weeks of operation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Cw0QJU8ro

Going Strong

From my experience, it's not too bad in the mornings, car-wise, or most of the day. However, through traffic on Patrick Street from Patrick's Bridge to Grand Parade late afternoons and evenings seems to be mostly cars for whatever reason.

Oh and some fecker had dumped their car on the double yellows right on the corner of Patrick Street and Grand Parade yesterday afternoon while they ran an errand. Not the first time I've seen this happen either.

razorblunt

moyners wrote: »

Where it really annoys the hell out of me is at Coal Quay. Can't think of anywhere else where the council spends a fortune putting in place a really attractive plaza and it's usually covered with cars. Nobody ever seems to do anything about it, especially when the traffic warden clocks off for the evening - and it's right outside a Garda station!

I was home for Xmas and couldn't believe this was happening, I was looking for a parking space and saw some cars up there, was half thinking of doing it too but stopped when I realised the Bridewell was across the road.
The fella in front of me drove up and parked even though there were two Garda walking back to the station, so I thought "when in Rome" and followed him.

Victor

pwurple wrote: »

And what about traders? Patrick street has loading bays. God forbid you ever want to pass some stock into the shop during normal working hours?

It's a car ban, not a delivery ban.

Going Strong

Victor wrote: »

It's a car ban, not a delivery ban.

It'll be the same as Oxford Street in London. Taxis, buses and delivery vehicles only between certain hours- no private cars. It's been in place there for about thirty years and the sky hasn't fallen in.

pwurple

Victor wrote: »

It's a car ban, not a delivery ban.

I'm wondering how that works? If they do bollards etc?

FrStone

Big difference between Oxford Street and Patrick Street. :rolleyes:

Victor

pwurple wrote: »

I'm wondering how that works? If they do bollards etc?

College Green just has signs, some other locations use bollards.

cgcsb

FrStone wrote: »

The street is plenty wide enough for pedestrians, there is no need to ban cars on it at all.

Will buses be banned as well? It would be mad banning them, as it would only add to journey times.

What if someone parks on Patrick Street before the ban?

I'd imagine the point isn't to provide more space for pedestrians but more space to public transport, which will improve overall reliability. Re parking, I'd say it'll be removed all together eventually, but will be interesting to see how it pans out in the short term.

cgcsb

KCAccidental wrote: »

will be fun times watching this a few times a day for the first couple of weeks of operation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Cw0QJU8ro

Those people in the black car had a child with them!! poor thing needs to be taken into care.

darkdubh

Going Strong wrote: »

From my experience, it's not too bad in the mornings, car-wise, or most of the day. However, through traffic on Patrick Street from Patrick's Bridge to Grand Parade late afternoons and evenings seems to be mostly cars for whatever reason.

Oh and some fecker had dumped their car on the double yellows right on the corner of Patrick Street and Grand Parade yesterday afternoon while they ran an errand. Not the first time I've seen this happen either.

A lot of these are the boy racer/modified car brigade who have no reason to be driving up and down the street other than thinking that anyone is interesting in seeing the ugly yokes they drive.

KCAccidental

darkdubh wrote: »

A lot of these are the boy racer/modified car brigade who have no reason to be driving up and down the street other than thinking that anyone is interesting in seeing the ugly yokes they drive.

Pretty much. Sometimes there are tailbacks on Patrick Street at 11pm due to all the lads spinnin'

whisky_galore

darkdubh wrote: »

A lot of these are the boy racer/modified car brigade who have no reason to be driving up and down the street other than thinking that anyone is interesting in seeing the ugly yokes they drive.

Who is impressed by Rice Rockets with a sewing machine sized engine and exhaust the size of a dustbin?

KCAccidental

This report was defeated at the council meeting tonight. 15-12. FF & AAA plus most indos voted against; FG were in favour. SF were split.

zenarcadian

Pedestrianising Pana would be the start of a butt-tonne of changes they need to make immediately.

cgcsb

KCAccidental wrote: »

This report was defeated at the council meeting tonight. 15-12. FF & AAA plus most indos voted against; FG were in favour. SF were split.

Shocking incompetence. The NTA needs to keep pushing this.

Subpopulus

To be fair to the councillors, it was probably the right decision to make - I don't think that many councillors were opposed to making Patrick's Street car-free, but most were opposed to how the traffic was to be managed in the Middle Parish. Basically the traffic that normally goes down St. Patricks street was to be diverted into a mostly residential area, and a network of high-volume one-way streets made with no 30kmph zones and no cycling contraflows etc.

This will now have to go back to the drawing board and hopefully the traffic management plan will be better the second time around. It's worth doing these things right.

mire

Subpopulus wrote: »

To be fair to the councillors, it was probably the right decision to make - I don't think that many councillors were opposed to making Patrick's Street car-free, but most were opposed to how the traffic was to be managed in the Middle Parish. Basically the traffic that normally goes down St. Patricks street was to be diverted into a mostly residential area, and a network of high-volume one-way streets made with no 30kmph zones and no cycling contraflows etc.

This will now have to go back to the drawing board and hopefully the traffic management plan will be better the second time around. It's worth doing these things right.

The plans for Patrick Street had nothing to do with improving pedestrian facilities; they involved taking private cars off Patrick Street from 12.30-6.30. Taxis and buses will simply drive faster through the street between those hours. It sounds like a badly thought-out plan.

Subpopulus

mire wrote: »

The plans for Patrick Street had nothing to do with improving pedestrian facilities; they involved taking private cars off Patrick Street from 12.30-6.30. Taxis and buses will simply drive faster through the street between those hours. It sounds like a badly thought-out plan.

No, the Patrick's Street proposal would have actually worked fine- these systems are in place in many cities and they don't result in massive speeding. There was to be a fifth set of traffic lights added to allow access between Cook Street and Opera Lane, so that would have slowed down traffic even more. Also, with far less traffic, people would be able to walk across the street almost anywhere they please, so traffic would be much more cautious as a result.

The badly though-out part of the plan was the traffic management for the Middle Parish, which is where all the traffic would be shifted to...