Landlord sent me Irish Water pack to register

CorkFenian

I had enquired about this to my landlord before the deadline....He said he had the pack at the time etc (I don't mind paying towards it as I share with someone but I don't see why I should register especially when I have no *lease where I stay I am there 4 years)

I got the pack in the post today, saying "Sorry its so late, would you mind registering etc".....

*To be honest having no lease suits me....

Just not sure about registering this late (tbh not a thread about rights and wrongs of Irish Water)

Anyone in rental accommodation registered for this? I would prefer to pay towards it than have it potentially follow me around should I move...

Thanks......

Stheno

CorkFenian wrote: »

I had enquired about this to my landlord before the deadline....He said he had the pack at the time etc (I don't mind paying towards it as I share with someone but I don't see why I should register especially when I have no *lease where I stay I am there 4 years)

I got the pack in the post today, saying "Sorry its so late, would you mind registering etc".....

*To be honest having no lease suits me....

Just not sure about registering this late (tbh not a thread about rights and wrongs of Irish Water)

Anyone in rental accommodation registered for this? I would prefer to pay towards it than have it potentially follow me around should I move...

Thanks......

If you don't register you don't qualify for the tax rebate and will pay more

garhjw

Are the other utilities for the property in your name?

I would treat water the same but as another poster stated if you leave it in the landlords name you can't get the water conservation grant..

ABajaninCork

Or the water allowances...

punisher5112

There is no late fee and bill may be higher but if/when you register you can still apply for grant and so on.

No incentive to register, no cost to been late or not register at all.

I won't be.

obsidianclock

Stheno wrote: »

If you don't register you don't qualify for the tax rebate and will pay more

Same old argument. If you don't register, they don't have your details - if they don't have your details you can't be taken to court.

If you want tax rebate, get a pension plan!

CorkFenian

Yeah I will have to check it out.....

No problem paying it (like i said its not whether its fair or just, its not) just my own situation....

If i leave the house in a few months, and its not paid will it follow me....Are payments once off or a few times a year?

boardsuser1

Irish Water? Never heard of them!!!

CorkFenian

Just to confirm if i register this week, there is no late penalty etc what happens then in terms of payment etc...

(I didn't expect to get the pack hence asking all these questions dealt with since last year!!)

R P McMurphy

If you register at two different properties do you get two different grants or rebates or whatever it is

The_Conductor

CorkFenian wrote: »

Yeah I will have to check it out.....

No problem paying it (like i said its not whether its fair or just, its not) just my own situation....

If i leave the house in a few months, and its not paid will it follow me....Are payments once off or a few times a year?

If you leave the house- Irish Water have said the bill will follow you.
If you decline to register- Irish Water are trying to browbeat the PRTB and Landlords- to register you (I can see this one ending up in the courts on data protection grounds- but its not going to stop them trying).

Stated payments schedule- is quarterly in arrears- i.e. you'd get 4 bills per annum.

_Brian

The whole landlord/renter issue with IW has been poorly done.

I received the pack for my rented house. I phoned IW and they said forward it to the tennant as it's their responsibility. However if tey don't pay I'll automatically be liable. So why would a tennant register ??

My current tennants are due to leave around mid year. I'll suck up any water bill they leave behind rather than take it from the deposit as that's not what the deposit is for.

However, the plan is to increase the rent going forward to build in a water allowance to cover any future bill from tennants. I know of a number of landlords doing likewise.

So the poorly implemented policy has resulted in increased rent on tennants.

Grandpa Hassan

_Brian wrote: »

The whole landlord/renter issue with IW has been poorly done.

I received the pack for my rented house. I phoned IW and they said forward it to the tennant as it's their responsibility. However if tey don't pay I'll automatically be liable. So why would a tennant register ??

My current tennants are due to leave around mid year. I'll suck up any water bill they leave behind rather than take it from the deposit as that's not what the deposit is for.

However, the plan is to increase the rent going forward to build in a water allowance to cover any future bill from tennants. I know of a number of landlords doing likewise.

So the poorly implemented policy has resulted in increased rent on tennants.

I'm doing the same. Seems like the cleanest way to deal with it

CorkFenian

They should have just had the household register for it, and pass the increase on to the tenants (I get on ok with landlord if he showed me receipts etc i would have no problem paying him).....Job done....

punisher5112

Hold this is disgraceful coming from a landlord.

If the bills are the tenants then why would rent have to be increased that is just poor ll liabilities and rights that one would have.

If a tenant leaves owing esb or gas this will follow them to next property.


Its one thing after another in Ireland tax this that and the rest. Rents pushed up.
No rent relief, having been pushed out of Dublin with huge rents its crazy.

garhjw

garhjw wrote: »

Are the other utilities for the property in your name?

I would treat water the same but as another poster stated if you leave it in the landlords name you can't get the water conservation grant..

I'm in a similar situation to the op, shared house, rooms let individually and all other utilities are in the LL's name and we just open the bills and pay them. We wanted to to the same with water but after discussion with the LL we concluded that the water will have to go in one of the tenants names which is a pain tbh.

It's going to be very messy when someone moves out and others in between water bills (there is a bit of a turn over of people in the house) or if I decided to move with water in my name getting it transferred to another tenant and not being stuck with the full bill etc etc.

Eric Cartman

Water charges aren't going away

register yourself

pay the bill

done.

Eric Cartman

Lisa Thoughtless Self-consciousness wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation to the op, shared house, rooms let individually and all other utilities are in the LL's name and we just open the bills and pay them. We wanted to to the same with water but after discussion with the LL we concluded that the water will have to go in one of the tenants names which is a pain tbh.

It's going to be very messy when someone moves out and others in between water bills (there is a bit of a turn over of people in the house) or if I decided to move with water in my name getting it transferred to another tenant and not being stuck with the full bill etc etc.

water charges are fixed till 2018 is it. For the moment just take 160 (the charge after the grant, and divide it by the number of people in the house. put the bill in someones name and they take that amount off each person , every month , bill or not. stops issues with turnover etc… simples.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I registered but as I will be leaving my current accommodation in September I decided not to give them any bank details at all. I'll pay at the post office and I won't be leaving a forwarding address with my current landlord when I move out.

CorkFenian

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I registered but as I will be leaving my current accommodation in September I decided not to give them any bank details at all. I'll pay at the post office and I won't be leaving a forwarding address with my current landlord when I move out.

Sounds good I will look into paying at post office as well.....Cheers... :D:D

TheChizler

On the IW website currently the say that the landlord won't be responsible for your unpaid bill, so if you register it's up to you to pay or not, but if you leave it with the landlord, as in they keep the utility in their name like some landlords do with electricity and gas, then I imagine you'd owe the landlord if they pay it, like any other utility, and you won't qualify for the rebate. Best to keep control of the situation and put it in your own name.

They're apparently framing legislation to deal with non-payment, but I can't imagine it will be exceptionally different to what happens currently with any other utility; i.e. it will be the non-payment section of the contract you agree with any other utility in legislative form.

TheChizler

listermint wrote: »

Pay nothing, Its all going to come crashing down this year. But sure some people already know this.

Toothless organisation, toothless regulator, reckless implementation. This thread is a prime example of how reckless it has been rents increasing to cover it.

It would all be a big laugh if it wasnt such a serious waste of our taxes.

As the OP said this isn't a question about the rights and wrongs of IW, it's to do with the landlord-tenant relationship and payment.

_Brian

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I'm doing the same. Seems like the cleanest way to deal with it

Agreed.
Lumbering landlords with this charge if tennants don't pay is crazy. They could have easily used the ESB style system where the tennant has an account with the utility and the bill follows them.
Were adding a monthly charge to the rent, if a bill remains well have it to pay the bill.

I fully support the water charges but this angle wasn't well thought out well as it allows people to run up a bill and then walk away expecting someone else to pay.

Tar.Aldarion

I never got a pack at all. Must ring to register then I guess.

The_Morrigan

Folks just a reminder of where you are posting - this is Accommodation and Property.
I don't care what side of the IW debate you fall on, but this is not the place to post pro/anti charges propaganda or have a discussion on the politics behind the move.

If you can't post on topic, then please do not post at all.

mikom

CorkFenian wrote: »

I had enquired about this to my landlord before the deadline....He said he had the pack at the time etc (I don't mind paying towards it as I share with someone but I don't see why I should register especially when I have no *lease where I stay I am there 4 years)

I got the pack in the post today, saying "Sorry its so late, would you mind registering etc".....

*To be honest having no lease suits me....

Just not sure about registering this late (tbh not a thread about rights and wrongs of Irish Water)

Anyone in rental accommodation registered for this? I would prefer to pay towards it than have it potentially follow me around should I move...

Thanks......

See if it can follow Mickey Mouse around.

foggy_lad

If a landlord has a big big house/building with only one water meter and several flats/units inside how is the charge paid? The LL has nothing to do with it but the tenants cant open multiple accounts all for the same meter?

How are Irish Water registering people now who have not received a water pack with their meter code on it?

Without this code they are unable to match your account to your meter!


So many unanswered questions spells a massive con job by the water company and the government!

JCDUB

_Brian wrote: »

However, the plan is to increase the rent going forward to build in a water allowance to cover any future bill from tennants. I know of a number of landlords doing likewise.

So the poorly implemented policy has resulted in increased rent on tennants.

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I'm doing the same. Seems like the cleanest way to deal with it

The poorly implemented policy has not resulted in increased rent on tenants, you have.

Way to sting the tenant again. Why would you increase your rent as a precautionary measure against a bill you can't be charged for?

This is the responsibility of the tenant and not the landlord, something you would be aware of if you cared about the welfare of your tenants.

Alas, all you care about is how much you can squeeze out of your properties.

The_Conductor

JCDUB- you haven't been listening to any of the Irish Water representatives on the radio lately? They disagree with pretty much every single point you've made. They have also stated unequivocally- that they expect any unpaid water bills to be deducted from property deposits, over and above any other costs that may be deducted from the deposit (aka- they want first dibs on tenant's deposits.......) This is Irish Water- not the landlord.........

beauf

IW say a lot of things, many of which are not true yet.

beauf

JCDUB wrote: »

The poorly implemented policy has not resulted in increased rent on tenants, you have.

Way to sting the tenant again. Why would you increase your rent as a precautionary measure against a bill you can't be charged for?

This is the responsibility of the tenant and not the landlord, something you would be aware of if you cared about the welfare of your tenants.

Alas, all you care about is how much you can squeeze out of your properties.

That the LL will or won't be responsible hasn't been officially clarified.

I'd agree that its too early to take preventative measures. But it was predictable outcome of the disinformation in the media by a variety of parties.

The point of a business is usually to get the maximum return. Its like trying to criticize a shop for charging for milk.

foggy_lad

beauf wrote: »

That the LL will or won't be responsible hasn't been officially clarified.

I'd agree that its too early to take preventative measures. But it was predictable outcome of the disinformation in the media by a variety of parties.

The point of a business is usually to get the maximum return. Its like trying to criticize a shop for charging for milk.

Yes it has been clarified. Irish water are a utility same as bord gais, electric Ireland, airtricity etc etc

They have no rights to seek anything from people who are not their customers! the landlord ceases to be their customer once they inform the utility that the house is rented and gives the name of the tenant.

this gets madly complicated though because of the way this whole disaster was implemented!
what if your rented house has one meter but several tenants? or what about apartments where there is only one meter per block or even one meter for the whole apartment scheme?

Irish Water will never be able to sort this mess as it was terminal before its inception. it needs to be scrapped and a water charge brought in for every person but this would not suit either as it is not based on usage as demanded by our bailout bankers.

beauf

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes it has been clarified. Irish water are a utility same as bord gais, electric Ireland, airtricity etc...

In what legislation has it been clarified.

foggy_lad

beauf wrote: »

In what legislation has it been clarified.

All the current legislation relating to private utility companies.

Remember that this company while operated by state workers is still nothing more than a company offering a service and governed by the same laws and rules.


Are the other utility companies allowed to chase you for your tenants unpaid ulility bills? NO they most certainly are not!

Government being quite sneaky and untruthful will lead us to believe that they have such powers and that they can go after your house or even follow you to the grave but it is not the case.

If this was a form of tax then yes they could take it from our wages or other avenues and also from the estates of the deceased but it is not a tax.

beauf

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes it has been clarified....

If its been clarified, what need is there for this....

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I will be seeking Government approval shortly to publish the Water Services Bill 2015 which will provide for a number of outstanding issues relating to the water charges package I announced on 19 November 2014. These matters were not included in the Water Services Act 2014 due to the requirement for additional consultations to take place with stakeholders. The Bill will, in the main, make provision for addressing any unpaid water bills relating to domestic property including privately owned and occupied property, private rented accommodation and local authority rented accommodation.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-01-27a.1152#g1154.r

foggy_lad

beauf wrote: »

If its been clarified, what need is there for this....



https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-01-27a.1152#g1154.r

So this means they will have a legislative framework for sending out letters demanding payment and then taking tenants and other "customers" to court for non payment!

They can't charge you for a debt owed by me!

really all that whole piece is just a load of old cobblers from the worst kind of politician. this is the same minister who got precious railway funding pumped into providing services on the Nenagh branch line which benefits nobody but got him some support in the area.

The_Morrigan

foggy_lad wrote: »

So this means they will have a legislative framework for sending out letters demanding payment and then taking tenants and other "customers" to court for non payment!

They can't charge you for a debt owed by me!

really all that whole piece is just a load of old cobblers from the worst kind of politician. this is the same minister who got precious railway funding pumped into providing services on the Nenagh branch line which benefits nobody but got him some support in the area.

What in the name of God has a railway line in Tipperary got to do with this forum?
There is already one mod warning to stay on topic in this thread, if you can't adhere to it don't post.

JCDUB

The_Conductor wrote: »

JCDUB- you haven't been listening to any of the Irish Water representatives on the radio lately?

Here's some text from the threshold website, link as follows:

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/water-charges/

Who is responsible for payment in private rented accommodation?

On 15th October 2014 the following clarification was posted on the Irish Water website www.water.ie

If you rent a property, you are responsible for the payment of the water charges for that property and should register with Irish Water in order to claim your allowances.
If you own a property that is unoccupied you are responsible for payment of the water charges and should register with Irish Water to ensure you are charged the ‘unoccupied’ rate.
If you have a tenant in a property, the tenant is responsible for the payment of the water charge and should register with Irish Water in order to claim their relevant allowances.
If the tenant has not registered with Irish Water, Irish Water will contact the property owner to ensure that the responsible party (ie the tenant) receives the bill. Irish Water will announce details of this shortly.
Should the tenant move out of the property without closing the account, the tenant remains responsible for the payment and Irish Water will follow this up in the standard ways.

beauf

The problem is that threshold, IW and the politicians, have a habit of stating's opinions as fact, to suit their own agenda. Not to mention u turns after the fact.

There hasn't to my knowledge been any specific legislation for IW that covers LLs, and no official statement from the Govt.

So we're either assuming the existing legislation will remain, or that new legislation will be created to clarify it.

Personally I would refuse any charge or increase relating to water charges until this all of this clarified. If a LL increases the rent, or deposit. It would have to be in accordance with the existing rental legislation. Anything else it is likely to end up at the PRTB.

Grandpa Hassan

Is it any wonder that the misleading and conflicting information posted by all the different bodies involved in this is resulting in LLs wanting to cover their ass? I certainly want to. Worst case....I get stung by the bill that the tenant should have paid. Best case....I have to chase around trying to prove to IW I don't live in my house when the tenant doesn't register. I really don't be wanting to do either.

_Brian

JCDUB wrote: »

The poorly implemented policy has not resulted in increased rent on tenants, you have.

Way to sting the tenant again. Why would you increase your rent as a precautionary measure against a bill you can't be charged for?

This is the responsibility of the tenant and not the landlord, something you would be aware of if you cared about the welfare of your tenants.

Alas, all you care about is how much you can squeeze out of your properties.

I'm workin off the information supplied to me by IW.
I happen to expect the current tennants will be leaving this year, their rent has not changed in five years because they have been good tennants.

IW informed me that if te tennant doesn't pay them the LL is responsible. I don't supply a public service nor social housing. I need to ensure the charge against the property is sufficiently covered. This is a commercial decision.

If IW had told me that the charge would follow the tennant then I wouldn't add it to te rent, but I see no reason I should be exposed to the risk if an additional bill. So many people are saying that they won't pay on principal, I can't take the chance that I'll be lumbered with a bill based on a tennants "principals". I already pay for my own water and sewage, why should I pay for theirs.

anncoates

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hold this is disgraceful coming from a landlord.

If the bills are the tenants then why would rent have to be increased that is just poor ll liabilities and rights that one would have.

If a tenant leaves owing esb or gas this will follow them to next property.


Its one thing after another in Ireland tax this that and the rest. Rents pushed up.
No rent relief, having been pushed out of Dublin with huge rents its crazy.

Why should a landlord be lumbered with your water bills if you decide not to register and pay for them yourself?

Patrickof

foggy_lad wrote: »

...

They can't charge you for a debt owed by me!

.....

And therein lies the problem.

Until the tenant (and it appears for now), that only the tenant, contacts IW to put their name on the account, then it remains in the LLs name. IW will not accept what is essentially a 3rd party submitting the tenants details in order to open an account.

In fact, all utilites work this way, a LL cannot sign up a tenant to elec or gas without the utility confirming it with the tenant directly.

TheChizler

Patrickof wrote: »

In fact, all utilites work this way, a LL cannot sign up a tenant to elec or gas without the utility confirming it with the tenant directly.

Happened to us! Landlord signed us up to Bord Gáis for a few days when we were already with Electric Ireland. Ignored it as we had two bills covering the same period from two different companies, and the Bord Gáis bill basically said 0 units used times Y cent a unit plus 73 c standing charge = €21, so we put it down to an error on their part and paid the bill from the company we actually had signed up for.

Having trouble with the ex-landlord-agency at the moment wrt IW bills at the moment actually. They're withholding the deposit until I provide them with proof that I registered. I did, and will pay, and had an over-the-phone confirmation from them but have no documentation to back it up. The agency say it's in their policy to ask for proof, and it is since January, but wasn't when we signed the lease. I'm trying to convince them that the landlord is not liable for tenants' bills but they're having none of it. IW haven't got back to me but at this stage even if I had written correspondence I don't see why I should have to prove anything to the agency, they don't need it for other utilities and it wasn't one of the conditions when we moved in.

beauf

I've seen it the other way tenant transferred it back to the LL. Also seen the utility company a transfer an unpaid bill from a tenant to bill on another property owned by the LL. Neither thing should be possible.

punisher5112

anncoates wrote: »

Why should a landlord be lumbered with your water bills if you decide not to register and pay for them yourself?

Simple really the LL is not going to be stuck with the bill.

Only time a LL would be stuck with a bill is if they are not renting the property out.

Its not very hard to understand and see what's going on here.
LL see €€€ signs rolling in front of their eyes.

If the tenancy is registered and you have proof there are tenants or were in the property what would any of you be worrying about.

Grandpa Hassan

punisher5112 wrote: »

Simple really the LL is not going to be stuck with the bill.

Only time a LL would be stuck with a bill is if they are not renting the property out.

Its not very hard to understand and see what's going on here.
LL see €€€ signs rolling in front of their eyes.

If the tenancy is registered and you have proof there are tenants or were in the property what would any of you be worrying about.

Hang on....where are the €€€€€ signs if the rent is increased by the amount of the water charge, and the LL pays the water charge???

That's what I'm doing. Not a penny more.

I ask you....how does the tenant lose out in this situation? Unless you have no intention of registering.....

Actually, it should be easier for you....no hassle in registering and reregistering, and guarantee that you only pay for water for the period of time you're renting the house

MrMorooka

From http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-live-1945809-Feb2015/

The occupier is considered the resident of a house. Irish Water is contacting landlords directly to say “come forward and talk to us and we’ll make sure the occupier of your property is the person we engage with going forward”, Arnett tells us.
Are you a landlord? Talk to the tenant first – and get in touch with Irish Water if you want more info.
As it stands, the landlord is liable unless an occupier says they’re living there and will deal with the bill. The landlord can give Irish Water the occupier’s name so they can be contacted.

The main thing is the tenant is responsible for the charge. If they leave, Irish Water needs to know about this change.
They will pursue the debt with whoever is responsible, ie the tenant.
That’s how it stands at the moment.
What about if there are multiple tenants?
You nominate who is the person whose name will go on the bill, they pay the conservation grant.
You put the same arrangement in place as other utility bills

beauf

The LL shouldn't be a middleman for utilities.

Its a terrible approach. Open to abuse by LL and tenant. Which is why its good practise not to do it.

beauf

MrMorooka wrote: »

From http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-live-1945809-Feb2015/

Yeah they also said...

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-bill-pay-1911794-Jan2015/

New legislation will place certain obligations on a landlord where a tenant has not paid charges.

Also created a fuss about deadlines, which weren't deadlines at all.

So just a bit of info that might be of interest to some, particularly on the LL being liable etc.

Now this may not be the case for everyone but I rang up today to register (our pack was thrown away by a previous house mate) and the house was already registered to the LL. As far as I'm aware the LL did not register himself as he asked me to register therefore it appears it was automatically registered in the property owners name.

I changed it over to my name over the phone then, it was straightforward enough.