Paramedic stands idly by as man collapses on front of him, dies of heart attack

ordinary_girl

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2949596/Shocking-video-shows-paramedic-casually-standing-hands-pockets-man-dies-heart-attack-right-him.html

Paramedic Geary − who was responsible for determining the course of treatment for Mr Cope − then took him to Walsall Manor Hospital accident and emergency department.

Footage from the hospital waiting room shows Mr Cope struggling to make himself comfortable and visibly in a lot of pain. After seven minutes, he leaves to visit a nearby shop to get a drink.

But on his way back through the car park shortly after 11.13am, Mr Cope is seen collapsing close to the hospital doors.


Geary can clearly be seen watching from the ambulance as Mr Cope remains on the ground for more than 30 seconds.

Struggling to his feet, Mr Cope only manages a few steps before fatally collapsing for a second - and final - time.

Geary, who was fully aware of Mr Cope's condition having brought him to the hospital, is seen looking on from his ambulance before finally going to his patient.

But he takes no equipment with him and instead casually stands over Mr Cope with his hands in his pockets, talking to him for two minutes.

After taking a closer look at Mr Cope, Geary then asks the hospital security to deal with him, before returning to his ambulance at 11.15am.

When the security guard is seen arriving a full five minutes later, Mr Cope did not appear to be showing any signs of life.

Obviously the paramedic did the wrong thing in this situation. Even as a mere human being I don't understand how you could casually stand by as someone is dying on front of you. Being a paramedic, you'd assume he'd be more aware of this than most.

But this also got me wondering, what about off duty medical professionals? Can they get in trouble if they stand idly by while someone suffers some kind of severe medical issue? Assuming they wouldn't be recognised because unlike this paramedic, they wouldn't be in uniform. Maybe stuff like this happens more often than we think? Or not, as the case may be.

Sheep Lover

Maybe he thought he was messing? The oul "fool a paramedic" game

qt3.14

Unrelated, but in France there a law obliging everyone to help someone in need of aid. There was a couple charged with it after they were seen watching a drunk fella stumble down the road and he latter drowned.

todders

I worked with a few people who had the same mentality, couldnt budge them to do anything if they were on / due a break

Mint Sauce

ordinary_girl wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2949596/Shocking-video-shows-paramedic-casually-standing-hands-pockets-man-dies-heart-attack-right-him.html



Obviously the paramedic did the wrong thing in this situation. Even as a mere human being I don't understand how you could casually stand by as someone is dying on front of you. Being a paramedic, you'd assume he'd be more aware of this than most.

But this also got me wondering, what about off duty medical professionals? Can they get in trouble if they stand idly by while someone suffers some kind of severe medical issue? Assuming they wouldn't be recognised because unlike this paramedic, they wouldn't be in uniform. Maybe stuff like this happens more often than we think? Or not, as the case may be.

I think once you identify your self as a medical person, be that a Doctor, a Paramedic, or a Nurse, and you go to help, you then have a duty of care, and can be held accountable till a more qualfied person arrives, ie, if an off duty nurse attends to someone on the road side, they identify them selfs, they are compelled to stay till the ambulance arrives.

However, the fact this was on hospital grounds, and happened in front of a uniformed paramedic, surely i assume he has a duty of care, but may not be able to administer medication, in case the patient OD'ed due to be already given something in the A&E, and should have done what ever he could until the A&E team arrived.

Renegade Mechanic

Christ and we thought our hospital staff worked to rule o.O

Nodin

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Maybe he thought he was messing? The oul "fool a paramedic" game

Very popular one that. You'd often be hard put to find a bit of ground to dive on, with all those at it.

Sheep Lover

Nodin wrote: »

Very popular one that. You'd often be hard put to find a bit of ground to dive on, with all those at it.

True alright, tis a cnut when the paramedic calls your bluff and comes at you with a defibrillator

mad muffin

I'm confused.

This man was brought to A&E complaining of chest pains. Why was he then not immediately seen by a doctor? Why was he squirming in agony in a chair, then to get up and walk to the shops for a drink.

Only to collapse in front of A&E and no one around but a disinterested paramedic.

the_syco

So... if an ambulance man brings someone to hospital, they should not allow them to leave the hospital building whilst they're there?

ColeTrain

"You shoulda collapsed a minute earlier mate, i'm clocked out now"

foggy_lad

mad muffin wrote: »

I'm confused.

This man was brought to A&E complaining of chest pains. Why was he then not immediately seen by a doctor? Why was he squirming in agony in a chair, then to get up and walk to the shops for a drink.

Only to collapse in front of A&E and no one around but a disinterested paramedic.

He was not classed as a cardiac case when brought to hospital despite having chest pains, probably just triaged very quickly and told take a seat till your name is called.

mad muffin

foggy_lad wrote: »

He was not classed as a cardiac case when brought to hospital despite having chest pains, probably just triaged very quickly and told take a seat till your name is called.

I would have thought anyone coming in on an ambulance with chest pain would be seen straight away.

So I'm reliably informed, that indeed he would have been triaged and then asked to wait. But if he was still complaining of chest pain he'd be assesed further.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sad.

Calibos

Could be a boy who cried wolf kinda case. Worked in a nice pub for several years in the 90's. On several occasions through the years we had different people men and women come in, have one drink or coffee or whatever, leave and 'Collapse' outside and be almost totally unresponsive except to ask for an ambulance to be called if no one else did it automatically. The ambulance would arrive and the paramedic would get out and say,"Ah Sean, tis yourself...." etc, and explain to me that they knew him well and he was always doing this. ie. Feigning collapse to be taken into hospital. ie. Mentally unwell.

It is or was a common thing.

Maybe the guy in the OP was one of those guys that the paramedic knew well. Just turns out, that this time there really was something wrong with him.

Gringo180

Scumbag. What sort of person stands with there hands in there pockets while a man is dying on the ground, let alone a paramedic. What the **** is wrong with some people these days, utter cuntz.

JONJO THE MISER

He should be charged with manslaughter.

gumbo1

240 hours community service and a 2 year suspended sentence and no career. Good enough for him if ya ask me!

AndonHandon

Are we certain your man was a paramedic?

gumbo1

AndonHandon wrote: »

Are we certain your man was a paramedic?

In the court reports he's named as a paramedic. If he wasn't then you'd have to wonder what he was doing in the ambulance. BTW I doubt he's still in the job what with his shiny new criminal record!!

SEPT 23 1989

Didnt we have the same carry on over here when ambulance men could not get on a boat tied up on the banks of the Shannon because they had not got the training to operate on water?

king_of_inismac

In Germany there's a "Unterlassene Hilfeleistung" law to punish those who fail to help those in need.

There is no such law in Ireland or the UK.

In fairness it doesn't say much for society if you have to force people to help someone who's clearly in distress.

This man was more qualified than most to help, and has no excuse.

Guy:Incognito

After taking a closer look at Mr Cope, Geary then asks the hospital security to deal with him, before returning to his ambulance at 11.15am.

When the security guard is seen arriving a full five minutes later, Mr Cope did not appear to be showing any signs of life.


Whats the deal here?
Does he call over a radio then walk away or does he say it do a security guard that's there who then leaves and comes back 5 minutes later

Guy:Incognito

qt3.14 wrote: »

Unrelated, but in France there a law obliging everyone to help someone in need of aid. There was a couple charged with it after they were seen watching a drunk fella stumble down the road and he latter drowned.

Whatever about if someone is hit by a car or collapses, but I'd be totally against that sort of application of a law. Your more likely to end up in an argument if you decide every drunk person you encounter needs your help.

Hyzepher

Just looked at the video there. The amount of people passing by without helping is unbelievable. Cars actively avoiding him but carrying on regardless. Not to mention the couple who passed him when he fell initially

kylith

king_of_inismac wrote: »

In Germany there's a "Unterlassene Hilfeleistung" law to punish those who fail to help those in need.

There is no such law in Ireland or the UK.

In fairness it doesn't say much for society if you have to force people to help someone who's clearly in distress.

This man was more qualified than most to help, and has no excuse.

You can be sued for helping someone. If I see someone collapse in the street and in the course of performing CPR I crack a rib they can sue me, or if someone cuts themselves and I give them a plaster I'd better be damn sure that I can prove that the wrapper was perfectly intact because if they get an infection they can sue me. When I worked in a pool we couldn't even put a plaster on a child that cut their knee.

Thankfully the law in Germany and France indemnifies people from such suits.

king_of_inismac

kylith wrote: »

You can be sued for helping someone. If I see someone collapse in the street and in the course of performing CPR I crack a rib they can sue me, or if someone cuts themselves and I give them a plaster I'd better be damn sure that I can prove that the wrapper was perfectly intact because if they get an infection they can sue me. When I worked in a pool we couldn't even put a plaster on a child that cut their knee.

Thankfully the law in Germany and France indemnifies people from such suits.

I think you are protected by the law in Ireland also:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0023/sec0004.html

Manic Moran

There's a "Good Samaritan" law in California, but often corporate policy by the employer is quite strict even if there is a legal shielding to the individual.

Case in point: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/04/cpr-refusal-woman-dies/1961407/

darkpagandeath

Hyzepher wrote: »

Just looked at the video there. The amount of people passing by without helping is unbelievable. Cars actively avoiding him but carrying on regardless. Not to mention the couple who passed him when he fell initially

Human heard behaviour, Shocking what we can ignore.... :mad:

Shurimgreat

Its hard to know.

some people have intervened in fights for example, and are turned on themselves. Its not as straightforward as intervening or helping someone in trouble. A husband might be beating a wife in public or vice versa but as soon as you intervene they might turn on you. Generally people tend to mind their own business.

Turtwig

I'd love to hear the paramedics side of this. This is the daily mail after all. Swift to make judgement, rarely establishes context. Videos can give faux impressions too. If what is claimed is true then it's horrible. But I find it hard to believe and for that reason need more substance before deciding this paramedic was irresponsible.

Chloris

The article refers to "heart" circumstances a pathetic amount. "Heartbroken", "heartless", could they not have sought out a less... pertinent... adjective.

Regardless of what the paramedic has to say for himself, a man died right in front of him while he did nothing to assist in saving him. He really should have gotten jail time. I truly hope he's merely a sociopath, but a representation of society as a whole.

Calibos

Chloris wrote: »

The article refers to "heart" circumstances a pathetic amount. "Heartbroken", "heartless", could they not have sought out a less... pertinent... adjective.

Regardless of what the paramedic has to say for himself, a man died right in front of him while he did nothing to assist in saving him. He really should have gotten jail time. I truly hope he's merely a sociopath, but a representation of society as a whole.

Or

like the examples I gave in my post earlier, an overworked underpaid Paramedic who perhaps had previous experience with this guy who was perhaps mentally unwell and an alcoholic (He left the hospital to get some drink??) and who might have previous form for feigning collapse or chest pains to get attention. Paramedic felt he was doing the same again, lost patience, calls security to deal with the 'fall down drunk' etc. Except this time it turns out the guy really did have a heart issue.

DM article does not give the Paramedics side of the story at all.

cassid

I watched the video and its pretty sad. Must be very hard for the family to watch.

It was not just the paramedic who ignored him on the ground, several other people did as well.

You like you think in your head if you fell to the ground someone who come to help you.

When I was about 14, I was allowed into town for the first time on my own. I found an ole lad on the ground and people were stepping over him. I walked past him and then turned back and asked him was he ok and he did not answer. He looked rough, but I was concerned and asked someone to call an ambulance. I waited with him until the ambulance came and explained he was not responsive to the ambulance men. They took him away. HE was probably out cold from booze, but I did not know and was not old enough to know any better. But remember thinking it was horrible that people were just stepping over him like he was nothing.

Big Wex fan

Turtwig wrote: »

I'd love to hear the paramedics side of this. This is the daily mail after all. Swift to make judgement, rarely establishes context. Videos can give faux impressions too. If what is claimed is true then it's horrible. But I find it hard to believe and for that reason need more substance before deciding this paramedic was irresponsible.

I don't think there is a his version of events. He was sacked from his job & convicted after pleading guilty.

Fair dues to the police in England trying to get a prosecution. I doubt if same thing happened here he would even get a warning. His union rep would be on the case.

I assume it was the triage nurse that got the sack as well for leaving the patient in waiting room.

Whosthis

I know of a public health nurse that walked past a man having a heart attack outside the gates of a health centre and refused to assist him for "insurance reasons".