Program Advice please

hurlsey

Mon
Snatch 55%x5x3
Squat 5rm
Pull-ups Bwx6x2
Tue
Powerclean 80%x3x3
Bench 70%x3x5
Pull-ups Bwx7x2
Thur
Snatch 80%x3x3
Front Squat 5rm
Pull-ups Bwx8x2
Fri
Powerclean 55%x5x3
Deadlift 75%x3x3
Pull-ups Bwx6x3

6wk cycle
everything increases 2.5% each week test week 7 for new 1RM
Pull-ups are cycled 6x2,7x2,8x2/6x3,7x3,8x3 etc etc

Hanley

Is there a question?

hurlsey

Hanley wrote: »

Is there a question?

Does it look ok I guess?
Would you change anything?
Goals are strength increase in the Oly lifts which would hopefully carry over to everything else but they are the main objective!!

LuckyLloyd

No full cleans or jerks and no vertical pressing present!!

hurlsey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No full cleans or jerks and no vertical pressing present!!

My apologies the "powerclean" listed is a clean, caught in the squat position.

Where or why would I include overhead press?

I've no interest in the jerk

Alf Veedersane

hurlsey wrote: »

Goals are strength increase in the Oly lifts which would hopefully carry over to everything else but they are the main objective!!

If you've no interest in the jerk then it's the snatch and the clean, as opposed to the Oly lifts per se, that you want to increase.

As for the 'why' in relation to overhead pressing stronger shoulders and triceps would carry over to your bench pressing. Though LL meant it in relation to improving the jerk part of the C&J, no doubt.

hurlsey

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you've no interest in the jerk then it's the snatch and the clean, as opposed to the Oly lifts per se, that you want to increase.

As for the 'why' in relation to overhead pressing stronger shoulders and triceps would carry over to your bench pressing. Though LL meant it in relation to improving the jerk part of the C&J, no doubt.

Ah ok, I should've been clearer in my OP!!

Hanley

As a "general" program it looks ok. Assuming you've a decent amount of muscle on you, have good technique in the relevant lifts, and it's a training phase focusing specifically on skills acquisition and enhancement, rather than a long term thing.

Hanley

..it's REALLY hard to give a proper answer on these without knowing all the variables tbh.

I'd be interested to see you come back in 7 weeks and tell US if it was good.

Don't be afraid to change your %s on the fly. The volume and intensity might start to beat you up.

LuckyLloyd

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you've no interest in the jerk then it's the snatch and the clean, as opposed to the Oly lifts per se, that you want to increase.

As for the 'why' in relation to overhead pressing stronger shoulders and triceps would carry over to your bench pressing. Though LL meant it in relation to improving the jerk part of the C&J, no doubt.

Well, even if he's no interest in the jerk he should still be pressing a barbell over his head imo. It's a plain of movement otherwise ignored, and there's a lot of vertical pulling in there as is.

Alf Veedersane

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, even if he's no interest in the jerk he should still be pressing a barbell over his head imo. It's a plain of movement otherwise ignored, and there's a lot of vertical pulling in there as is.

100%

And I'd have said there's a lack of horizontal pulling as well.

LuckyLloyd

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

100%

And I'd have said there's a lack of horizontal pulling as well.

Well, you could argue that cleaning or snatching each training session makes up for that for - assuming good form on the first pull - you're working that plain of movement. Most Oly specific programs that I've seen don't include horizontal rowing separately for that reason.

Alf Veedersane

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, you could argue that cleaning or snatching each training session makes up for that for - assuming good form on the first pull - you're working that plain of movement. Most Oly specific programs that I've seen don't include horizontal rowing separately for that reason.

You could and the only reason I thought to add it was the fact that he wants a carryover to everything else so I thought if it wasn't entirely Oly specific, then it might be no harm to include.

hurlsey

Thought I'd give a quick update, program was altered slightly, I'm in week 4 of 6 now, week 7 is still test week

Mon
Squat 3x5
Snact 4x3@55%
PullUps (as OP)
Rear Db fly
Plank

Tue
Clean 2/1x2@80/85%
Bench 4x6
Bench row 4x6
Arms 4x8
Plank

Wed
Snatch 2/1x2@80%
Pull-ups (as OP)
O/H press 4x6
Rear Db fly
Plank

Fri
Squat 3x5
Clean 4x3@55%
Pull-ups (as OP)
Arms 4x8
Plank

It's going well after test week I'll post my original RMs and New RMs

Edwardius

Do the snatch / clean before squatting on Monday and Friday. Those percentages are for technical work I'm guessing, better to hit that stuff with fresh legs.

hurlsey

Hanley wrote: »

..it's REALLY hard to give a proper answer on these without knowing all the variables tbh.

I'd be interested to see you come back in 7 weeks and tell US if it was good.

Don't be afraid to change your %s on the fly. The volume and intensity might start to beat you up.

Test week this week, Hanley asked for me to judge if it was good, so far I'm very happy but ill post 1rms start and finish at the end of the week!

Hanley

hurlsey wrote: »

Test week this week, Hanley asked for me to judge if it was good, so far I'm very happy but ill post 1rms start and finish at the end of the week!

Class. Make sure you tell us starting and finishing points.

Good luck on test day!

hurlsey

Well so far I've tested the Clean, Squat, Bench and bench row

Clean**
old 1RM 70kg - NEW 1RM 77.5kg
Squat
old 1RM 110kg - NEW 1RM 130kg
Bench
old 1RM 70kg - NEW 1RM 82.5kg
Row
old 1RM 60kg - NEW 1RM 72.5kg

**clean did not go as well as I had hoped, I'm very disappointed with it to be honest, I've still got the Snatch, Deadlift, Overhead and PullUps left

hurlsey

Tested Snatch
Old 1RM 45kg - NEW 1RM 57.5kg

Retested the clean
Old 1RM 70kg - NEW 1RM 85kg, extremely happy, not sure what happened on the first test!!

Edwardius

Good job!

have a look at this calculator and it'll give ya an idea of what to focus on going forward (the squat is the most important though!). There are no absolutes but a 130 back squat should lead to (ballpark):

Total 181
Snatch 80
Clean and Jerk 100
Power Snatch 66
Power Clean 82
Power Jerk 95
Front Squat 112
Back Squat 130
Pull 135

You should probably front squat now.

hurlsey

Tested deadlift and overhead

Deadlift
old 1RM 135 - NEW 1RM 152.5kg

Overhead
1RM 52.5kg

LuckyLloyd

How new to weight training are you?

hurlsey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How new to weight training are you?

Well I started 6 years ago, but up until 7 weeks ago I hadn't done anything in a year!! This was due to work, and then laziness!! Can't go back but I have set goals to get back to where I was and then where I want to be!!

LuckyLloyd

Ah okay, given that you're returning to training from a long layoff it explains the large progressions over the course of six weeks.

Unfortunately it means you're a poor candidate to speak for how effective a training program is right now however! You'll recover a lot of strength very quickly just be looking at the bar.

hurlsey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah okay, given that you're returning to training from a long layoff it explains the large progressions over the course of six weeks.

Unfortunately it means you're a poor candidate to speak for how effective a training program is right now however! You'll recover a lot of strength very quickly just be looking at the bar.

Taking my new 1rms I have another 6 week cycle to get through and another test week! Getting back to where I was before the layoff I'd like to hit
Squat 155kgx1
DL 180kgx1
Bench 110kgx1

Clean 100kgx1
Snatch 75kgx1

Row and O/head have never been tested before so

Obviously I'm not going to hit those numbers at the end of this cycle but hopefully I'll put another dent in my targets!

hurlsey

This what the next 6 weeks look like

Mon
Hang Snatch 70%x3x3
Squat 4x6
Bench 4x6
PullUps
Plank

Tue
Clean 85%x3x2
O/h 4x6
Bench Row 4x6
Arms
Plank

Wed
Snatch 85%x3x2
Bench 5x8
PullUps
Plank

Fri
Hang Clean 70%x3x3
Front Squat 4x6
Bench Row 4x6
Arms
Plank

Mellor

Edwardius wrote: »

Good job!

have a look at this calculator and it'll give ya an idea of what to focus on going forward (the squat is the most important though!). There are no absolutes but a 130 back squat should lead to (ballpark):

Total 181
Snatch 80
Clean and Jerk 100
Power Snatch 66
Power Clean 82
Power Jerk 95
Front Squat 112
Back Squat 130
Pull 135

You should probably front squat now.

What does the "Pull" here refer to?
Looks too light to be a deadlift - based on the (high bar?) back squat, and the clean.
But it's a looks a bit high to be a clean pull, but maybe not.

DylanJM

Mellor wrote: »

What does the "Pull" here refer to?
Looks too light to be a deadlift - based on the (high bar?) back squat, and the clean.
But it's a looks a bit high to be a clean pull, but maybe not.

I would say it probably refers to a clean deadlift.

http://www.catalystathletics.com/exercise/176/Clean-Deadlift/

hurlsey

hurlsey wrote: »

This what the next 6 weeks look like

Mon
Hang Snatch 70%x3x3
Squat 4x6
Bench 4x6
PullUps
Plank

Tue
Clean 85%x3x2
O/h 4x6
Bench Row 4x6
Arms
Plank

Wed
Snatch 85%x3x2
Bench 5x8
PullUps
Plank

Fri
Hang Clean 70%x3x3
Front Squat 4x6
Bench Row 4x6
Arms
Plank

After the first week, notably Monday,
I feel I may have moved too soon so %s on Mon-snatch and Fri-clean are being dropped to 55%, primarily for technique work and recovery! Also Tue-Clean and Wed-Snatch are dropping to 80 or 82.5%!!

Edwardius

hurlsey wrote: »

After the first week, notably Monday,
I feel I may have moved too soon so %s on Mon-snatch and Fri-clean are being dropped to 55%, primarily for technique work and recovery! Also Tue-Clean and Wed-Snatch are dropping to 80 or 82.5%!!

Good call. Are you progressing the weighs at all? say the 85% snatch... or do you plan on keeping the weight the same over the weeks?

For the likes of doubles, if you're ok technically, 80% ish is a good starting point, it should be easy on a good day and possible on a bad one.

You need to leave a little leeway for the olympic lifts because there's more voodoo present than the likes of squats etc, finding the "useful" working range can be a little difficult. Usually I'd define a starting point for a particular session and let people feel it out as the session progresses. For the technical stuff... start at 55% (as you said) and pay very close attention to the movement, push it a little if everything is technically perfect, maybe 60-65% ish, 70 is getting into "work" territory, but your 70% on a bad day could be 60% on a good day...

For the "strength" (80%+) stuff, do the same but instead of focusing on perfection (perfection is nice and all but this is where you want to strengthen the movement), focus on the exertion. If you feel like you need to sell your mother to make the second rep, the weight is too high. If you're breezing through them then ratchet the weight up just before the point where you'd start to worry.

That might look a little fluffy/airy-fairy but it's born of a fair few programming mistakes I made in the past!

hurlsey

Edwardius wrote: »

Good call. Are you progressing the weighs at all? say the 85% snatch... or do you plan on keeping the weight the same over the weeks?

For the likes of doubles, if you're ok technically, 80% ish is a good starting point, it should be easy on a good day and possible on a bad one.

You need to leave a little leeway for the olympic lifts because there's more voodoo present than the likes of squats etc, finding the "useful" working range can be a little difficult. Usually I'd define a starting point for a particular session and let people feel it out as the session progresses. For the technical stuff... start at 55% (as you said) and pay very close attention to the movement, push it a little if everything is technically perfect, maybe 60-65% ish, 70 is getting into "work" territory, but your 70% on a bad day could be 60% on a good day...

For the "strength" (80%+) stuff, do the same but instead of focusing on perfection (perfection is nice and all but this is where you want to strengthen the movement), focus on the exertion. If you feel like you need to sell your mother to make the second rep, the weight is too high. If you're breezing through them then ratchet the weight up just before the point where you'd start to worry.

That might look a little fluffy/airy-fairy but it's born of a fair few programming mistakes I made in the past!

I'm going to leave it at 80% for 2 weeks an push it out then, did 55% today on the cleans and my technique felt solid(to me) I'm happy enough going forward test week again in another 5 weeks so we'll see how in progressing then

On another note did front squat today, needs work wasn't able to go as heavy as I thought I would!!

hurlsey

What would you do different

Porridge w/protein(30g)
**Rashers&eggs(49g)
**Tuna salad(46g)
Chicken w/Sweet Pottato & asparagus (90g)

Total 211g (approx)

**always have rocket, baby spinach, peppers, tomato, scallion ****ed in(I use handfuls as a measure)

Snacks fruit 5-8 pces/day (can be more)

Alf Veedersane

hurlsey wrote: »

What would you do different

Porridge w/protein(30g)
**Rashers&eggs(49g)
**Tuna salad(46g)
Chicken w/Sweet Pottato & asparagus (90g)

Total 211g (approx)

**always have rocket, baby spinach, peppers, tomato, scallion ****ed in(I use handfuls as a measure)

Snacks fruit 5-8 pces/day (can be more)

211g of food?

A day?

Have you used myfitnesspal to see what that gives you?

What is it you want to get out of your diet?

hurlsey

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

211g of food?

A day?

Have you used myfitnesspal to see what that gives you?

What is it you want to get out of your diet?

211g of protein, no I havnt been using it, is it a food tracker?

Strength/mass gains without too much fat gain(I know this will take longer)

Alf Veedersane

hurlsey wrote: »

211g of protein, no I havnt been using it, is it a food tracker?

Strength/mass gains without too much fat gain(I know this will take longer)

Well, that certainly makes more sense.

Yeah, it's an app with an extensive database that tracks your food and will spit out calories and a macro breakdown.

If you're trying to make mass gains, you'll need to know what you're getting on board and what your TDEE is

hurlsey

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Well, that certainly makes more sense.

Yeah, it's an app with an extensive database that tracks your food and will spit out calories and a macro breakdown.

If you're trying to make mass gains, you'll need to know what you're getting on board and what your TDEE is

TDEE is 3478

Clean bulk is 3728

According to the link

Blacktie.

hurlsey wrote: »

TDEE is 3478

Clean bulk is 3728

According to the link

This doesn't look right at all. What stats did you use?

Alf Veedersane

Blacktie. wrote: »

This doesn't look right at all. What stats did you use?

Which?

The clean bulk is about 250 kcals a day and if he's above 6'2" and 83kg doing 3-5 hours a week of moderate exercise, it would sound about right for the TDEE.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Which?

The clean bulk is about 250 kcals a day and if he's above 6'2" and 83kg doing 3-5 hours a week of moderate exercise, it would sound about right for the TDEE.

3500 is a huge maintainance. 83kg isn't that big tbh.
I do t see how height has a significant impact on TDEE.

Edit : where did you get 83kg
That TDEE looks more like a person 90kg+

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

3500 is a huge maintainance. 83kg isn't that big tbh.
I do t see how height has a significant impact on TDEE.

Edit : where did you get 83kg
That TDEE looks more like a person 90kg+

Scooby's Calculator asks for height. Input a weight of 83kg, a height of 74" and 3-5 hours moderate exercise per week gives a TDEE of 3321, which is in the ballpark.

That's where he calculated it.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Scooby's Calculator asks for height. Input a weight of 83kg, a height of 74" and 3-5 hours moderate exercise per week gives a TDEE of 3321, which is in the ballpark.

That's where he calculated it.

I think you've left the age box blank. When you fill that it drops to 3000-ish.

To get close to 3500, you need to be 105kg at that height and activity

hurlsey

To clarify I'm 90 kg

Mellor

hurlsey wrote: »

To clarify I'm 90 kg

I make that 3135 maintainance and 3385 clean bulk.
Thatto based of 3-5 hours moderate exercise.

Alf Veedersane

Think it was the empty age field in my calcs. Thought it was high but I just wanted to see if it was reasonable with higher stats that were reasonable.

hurlsey

Mellor wrote: »

I make that 3135 maintainance and 3385 clean bulk.
Thatto based of 3-5 hours moderate exercise.

I had it set at 5-6 strenuous when I was doing the calcs

mine says 2000 for fat loss
interesting

2550 for gain muscle lose fat :eek: