My son.

LegacyUser

My son is almost 15 and came out as gay when he was 13. I am very proud that he felt confident enough to come out both in his home and school life. He says he identifies as an androgynous gay man (he likens himself to Miles J) he has also expressed an interest in becoming a drag queen when he grows up. I am supportive of this and have gotten him makeup for christmas. I have been accused of "encouraging" him to gay. Now, i am of the belief that you *are* gay and that these people are full of BS. Others have siad that he is too young to know himself. Pffft!

Am i doing the right thing in allowing him this freedom to express himself as he wants. He used only wear the makeup at home but recently started to wear it meeting friends and has gotten into trouble in school for wearing it. i have always supported his interests which traditionally might have been seen as girls hobbies such as knitting, sewing, baking etc (which some people have raised an eyebrow at) And i hope this doesn't sound awful but he really, really camps up his behaviour. Its as if he doesn't want anyone to think he's straight! I also worry that he may be attacked as there are still a lot of horrible people out there

I really don't know what I'm asking. Maybe a little guidance and how I can do my best. There's noone I can really talk to that has been through similar.

Annasopra

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

Am i doing the right thing in allowing him this freedom to express himself as he wants.

I think so yes

Have you contacted LOOK

http://www.lovingouroutkids.org/

Deranged96

You're a fantastic dad, first and foremost.
There's no point inhibiting your son's behaviour; he clearly knows who he is as a person and doing so would only ruin your great relationship with him. I know saying "he'll grow out of it" might seem like a very perverted phrase to use but I would expect his "campness" to tone down a small bit as he matures, he's still a teenager and probably feels that he needs to be a certain way, like how all teenagers feel.

Right, the following may unsettle you:
In my experience gay teens grow up quicker than others. Especially the out gay teens. Buy him condoms or just leave them accessible in the bathroom.

Keep up the good work!

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies so far I will check out that site. I'm actually his mum deranged! (His dad is not supportive of his son) I do worry about him being sexually active at such a young age but i don't think he is. I am not sure am I ready to leave condoms out for him. He tells me that he is "too gay"! for the other out gays in the school. He is a bit wild in school, not bold per say but really pushes the boundaries. He has dyed his hair a myriad of crazy colours because it doesn't state in the school rules that he can't (I have been informed that the school rules are set to be changed because of him)

Any more advice welcome

Penny Tration

What a wonderful, supportive mam you are!

I agree with the others, that you're absolutely right to allow him to express himself as he sees fit.

The 'campness' may die down when his hormones calm down, or it may not, but who cares once he's happy?

As for horrible people out there who may use it as a stick to beat him with - well, tbh, horrible people will find any reason to hurt someone. If it isn't somebody's sexuality, it's their clothing, hair, glasses, skin, weight, height, anything!

With regards to getting in trouble at school over make-up - if it's in his school code that make up is not allowed, he shouldn't be wearing it. However, if female students are allowed wear it, I'd challenge it with the principal.

It sounds as though you're doing everything right and have nothing to worry about.

justback83

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

My son is almost 15 and came out as gay when he was 13. I am very proud that he felt confident enough to come out both in his home and school life. He says he identifies as an androgynous gay man (he likens himself to Miles J) he has also expressed an interest in becoming a drag queen when he grows up. I am supportive of this and have gotten him makeup for christmas. I have been accused of "encouraging" him to gay. Now, i am of the belief that you *are* gay and that these people are full of BS. Others have siad that he is too young to know himself. Pffft!

Am i doing the right thing in allowing him this freedom to express himself as he wants. He used only wear the makeup at home but recently started to wear it meeting friends and has gotten into trouble in school for wearing it. i have always supported his interests which traditionally might have been seen as girls hobbies such as knitting, sewing, baking etc (which some people have raised an eyebrow at) And i hope this doesn't sound awful but he really, really camps up his behaviour. Its as if he doesn't want anyone to think he's straight! I also worry that he may be attacked as there are still a lot of horrible people out there

I really don't know what I'm asking. Maybe a little guidance and how I can do my best. There's noone I can really talk to that has been through similar.

You are a great mum and a great person!!

eviltwin

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far I will check out that site. I'm actually his mum deranged! (His dad is not supportive of his son) I do worry about him being sexually active at such a young age but i don't think he is. I am not sure am I ready to leave condoms out for him. He tells me that he is "too gay"! for the other out gays in the school. He is a bit wild in school, not bold per say but really pushes the boundaries. He has dyed his hair a myriad of crazy colours because it doesn't state in the school rules that he can't (I have been informed that the school rules are set to be changed because of him)

Any more advice welcome

Do you think this overt gayness, sorry can't think of a better way of phrasing it, is to get at his dad? You're doing great, he's lucky to have you.

Rick_

What a great opening post. You are a lovely mother and any child would be lucky to have such a supportive,open minded and nurturing woman as you as their mother. If only some other people/parents out there took note...

Sam Mac

What an awesome mum you are! Well done on being so supportive, your son is very lucky to have you!

Funtrepreneur

<Mod Snip>Unacceptable Comment</Mod Snip>

Infracted by mod for trolling

Meesared

Funtrepreneur wrote: »

Seems to be rebelling possibly due to the fact that there is no father figure there. Someone needs to knock some sense into him before his behaviour gets out of hand. Next thing you now he'll be hooked on the gear, stealing from your purse and giving hand jobs for cash. Needs to be nipped in the bud asap

What are you on about?? What exactly are you basing that on?

Funtrepreneur

Meesared wrote:

What are you on about?? What exactly are you basing that on?

First hand experience

Chloris

Sounds like he's using this as an identity so he doesn't have to confront real life problems in an authentic and mature manner, and anyone who criticises him will be a homophobe. I had a great friend growing up who did this too. He ended up having to spend a lot of time in psychiatric care. Luckily he's doing alright now but it could have been avoided if his parents had told him to cop the f on and stop acting like an idiot.

Tombo2001

Whatever he describes himself as, I wouldn't describe any 15 year old as a man, as they particularly wouldn't have the emotional maturity of an adult.....they are probably 10 years away from that.

Should his behaviour be seen more in the context of his age rather than his sexuality?

MagicMarker

Funtrepreneur wrote: »

First hand experience

You gave handjobs for cash?

Tombo2001

MagicMarker wrote: »

You gave handjobs for cash?

Don't feed the troll.

secman

I would set the boundaries for his age of 15 yrs rather than his sexuality, he's still only a kid. I am the dad of a straight son and a gay daughter, both had same boundaries in their hormonal teens.

Annasopra

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Don't feed the troll.

As always report posts and dont backseat moderate

Annasopra

Folks lets not engage in silly conversation with funtrepeneur

Annasopra

OP would an lgbt youth service like belong to suit your son?

floggg

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far I will check out that site. I'm actually his mum deranged! (His dad is not supportive of his son) I do worry about him being sexually active at such a young age but i don't think he is. I am not sure am I ready to leave condoms out for him. He tells me that he is "too gay"! for the other out gays in the school. He is a bit wild in school, not bold per say but really pushes the boundaries. He has dyed his hair a myriad of crazy colours because it doesn't state in the school rules that he can't (I have been informed that the school rules are set to be changed because of him)

Any more advice welcome

I don't think it' really matters whether you are ready for him to have sex unfortunately.

It's whether he is the issue!

Make sure you have "the talk" with him if you haven't already, obviously tailored to gay male sexual activities.

I know bits horribly uncomfortable but chances are he won't have gotten all the information he needs in that regard from school etc.

floggg

Chloris wrote: »

Sounds like he's using this as an identity so he doesn't have to confront real life problems in an authentic and mature manner, and anyone who criticises him will be a homophobe. I had a great friend growing up who did this too. He ended up having to spend a lot of time in psychiatric care. Luckily he's doing alright now but it could have been avoided if his parents had told him to cop the f on and stop acting like an idiot.

I don't think it's her son that's the idiot.

We have no idea why he is acting this way, and it would be silly to claim to know so from a distance.

He may well consider this to be in line with his true identity, it may be an experimentation phase or it may be looking for attention as teenagers are want to do from time to time.

The only thing the OP can do is to be supportive, talk to her son and make me feel comfortable being able to talk to her and perhaps discuss his relationship with his father and see it it is something that bothers him.

Other than that just being there and being supportive is enough.

I would perhaps discuss with him the risks involved from third persons of a young boy expressing in this way, and making sure he take proper cognisance of them and ask him to consider whether he might need to modify his appearance in certain instances.

I would stress to him that he isn't doing anything wrong and the problem is theirs, not his, but that at the same time he should be aware of the fact that they may take out there problems on him.

LegacyUser

Hi again and thanks for the replies. Tombo, I meant to say male rather than man but I get what you are saying. I do worry about letting him express himself in the way he chooses, that's why I am posting here. And actually. He has accused people of homophobia when the question other behaviour. Up until he came out he was the model student in school, great marks and good behaviour. But this has changed.
Chloris, that is a concern of mine, that he uses this identity to cope with things. By that i mean this extra flamboyant camp identity. I have no doubt that he is gay. He basically has no positive male role model in his life. He doesn't get on with his brothers either.
Secman, I do set boundaries for all my children. I have told him to reign in the silly behaviour in school, tone down the campness but its hard. He can be very confrontational.
Joeytheparrot, there is a lgbt youth group locally but he says he doesn't want to go. He thinks the idea of a support group is silly but I'll keep working on it.
Flogg, he's very open about sex and I'm as sure as I can be that he is not sexually active but I've not sat down specifically and had the talk. I know Iit's probably overdue at this stage. am very aware of the risks from third petsons. This is a huge, huge worry. I am lucky that he doesn't actually go to town or hang out too often but when he does I do worry. He's six foot tall with mad hair. The makeup actually isn't too flamboyant when he's out. Its usually just foundation and mascara. Its at home when he does the real drag makeup (which incidentally is very well applied)
Thanks again for all replies. It helps.

Deranged96

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far I will check out that site. I'm actually his mum deranged!

Oh sorry haha, I don't know why I assumed you were a man!

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

Its at home when he does the real drag makeup (which incidentally is very well applied)

This made me laugh for some reason

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the male influence thing OP; he has male teachers, brothers and male friends I'll assume. Sounds like its not shaving he needs help with anyway :P

Yes, Have that talk I'd say! If you're certain he isn't up to any shenanigans then it's good that you get to swoop in before he actually needs any of the information

LFC CONNAUGHTON

Is wearing makeup against the school rules or is it just because he is male?

Lyaiera

I think the adult role models that someone mentioned is really important. Unfortunately parents and teachers aren't enough, they're obvious authority figures so they a teenager sees them as an oppositional force rather than someone that can be relied on. These adults of course try and make sure they're available but it's not an easily achievable thing. Having an adult in a teenager's life that is closer to a peer, but still someone with an adult outlook on life can be a real benefit. The respect is often more mutual and the teenager may be more receptive to the "lessons" and "behaviour" being taught.

Unfortunately for a teenager like your son, it could be very hard for them to find an adult who they relate to, purely because their behaviour is so unconventional/unique (and I mean that in an entirely non-judgemental way.) I really do think an LGBT support group could be of benefit, especially as there may be someone there who your son can identify with in a properly supporting relationship, where both parties have a deep understanding of what they're going through.

It may be controversial to say this, but I find there is definitely issues with LGBT teenagers being forced to mature (when they're not ready to) because they don't have peers they can relate to, and when they don't have appropriate adult relationships where they can see an adult with behaviour they relate to and where the adult can show them what is appropriate for their age. Youth groups can be really important for this, it's structured with the appropriate supports available for both teens and adults in how to deal with behaviour, but it's also a voluntary and more informal setting, so the authority is less overt.

My experience with this goes back 15 years, but I knew a lot of LGBT teens who started hitting the pub/club scene, not out of a desire for drunkeness/sex/adulthood, but purely to find someone they could relate to, and this was because of the paucity of supporting peer relationships, and the lack of suitable adult role models in traditional adult/teen spheres, like schools and within family. I really do think the increase in LGBT youth groups is important in addressing this.

ninty9er

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

He is a bit wild in school, not bold per say but really pushes the boundaries. He has dyed his hair a myriad of crazy colours because it doesn't state in the school rules that he can't (I have been informed that the school rules are set to be changed because of him)

Any more advice welcome

You need to nip that in the bud quickly with the Board of Management. Changing rules to counteract physical appearance (which doesn't need to be counteracted) of a small number of students will give them the persecution drum to beat.

I also remember a friend of my cousin's in my school who's dad presented his advice as a barrister that the principal would do well to retract her threat to suspend him if the blue hair didn't disappear. Hair does not form part of the uniform, and whilst jewellery is often banned for health and safety reasons, there is no reasonable argument against hair/makeup. I imagine it saved the school an expensive court case given a barrister's own time is free to himself

Deranged96

ninty9er wrote: »

You need to nip that in the bud quickly with the Board of Management. Changing rules to counteract physical appearance (which doesn't need to be counteracted) of a small number of students will give them the persecution drum to beat.

I also remember a friend of my cousin's in my school who's dad presented his advice as a barrister that the principal would do well to retract her threat to suspend him if the blue hair didn't disappear. Hair does not form part of the uniform, and whilst jewellery is often banned for health and safety reasons, there is no reasonable argument against hair/makeup. I imagine it saved the school an expensive court case given a barrister's own time is free to himself

If someone wants to kick up a fuss, they will:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/principal-sees-red-as-student-dyes-his-hair-26660985.html

ninty9er

Deranged96 wrote: »

If someone wants to kick up a fuss, they will:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/principal-sees-red-as-student-dyes-his-hair-26660985.html

Said principal was actually a teacher in my school before getting that job. The article speaks for itself You'd think he'd have learned the lessons of his former boss.

LegacyUser

Deranged96 wrote: »

If someone wants to kick up a fuss, they will:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/principal-sees-red-as-student-dyes-his-hair-26660985.html

I'm surprised that case didn't get brought to the ombudsman, State Exam centres aren't generally allowed to discriminate against candidates based on appearances.

Regarding you son OP, I would do as you currently do - support him and love him. Part of loving him, however, involves setting boundaries - did he consult you before dying his hair? Why not? I'm not suggesting being a totalitarian dictator, but firm guidance could be a help. Perhaps a meeting with the school to explain his difficulties with rules about makeup would be helpful.

Start looking to the future - where does he want to go to college, does he want a boyfriend, does he want to go to Eurovision some time? If he likes doing drag why not consider an acting group that put on pantomimes (if he's okay with it). Support groups can be good if he's comfortable with going to one. If necessary find one outside of the county if he's uncomfortable talking to people he might have mutual friends with.

He says he's too gay for the other gays. What do you interpret this to mean? Does he have a friend group that might be cliquey? Or is he shunned by other gays because of the way he is? Campness is definitely a coping mechanism - perhaps it serves him better in the school to be "overtly gay" - personally I find less aggression and homophobic name-calling is directed towards the gay people in school who "flaunt it" or "own it" than those who choose to be less subtle or "straight acting" (this is vastly unfair but is a reality). Expressing self-confidence makes bullies less likely to pick on you.

Finally, you are an awesome parent. You care, and that is all that matters.

wakka12

Sleepyeyes12 wrote: »

My son is almost 15 and came out as gay when he was 13. I am very proud that he felt confident enough to come out both in his home and school life. He says he identifies as an androgynous gay man (he likens himself to Miles J) he has also expressed an interest in becoming a drag queen when he grows up. I am supportive of this and have gotten him makeup for christmas. I have been accused of "encouraging" him to gay. Now, i am of the belief that you *are* gay and that these people are full of BS. Others have siad that he is too young to know himself. Pffft!

Am i doing the right thing in allowing him this freedom to express himself as he wants. He used only wear the makeup at home but recently started to wear it meeting friends and has gotten into trouble in school for wearing it. i have always supported his interests which traditionally might have been seen as girls hobbies such as knitting, sewing, baking etc (which some people have raised an eyebrow at) And i hope this doesn't sound awful but he really, really camps up his behaviour. Its as if he doesn't want anyone to think he's straight! I also worry that he may be attacked as there are still a lot of horrible people out there

I really don't know what I'm asking. Maybe a little guidance and how I can do my best. There's noone I can really talk to that has been through similar.

You sound like a wonderful mother/father , if only there were more like you. But honestly, for his sake I wouldn't let him go around in drag. He's a 15 year old boy and will be a huge target of bullying, I would not let him , I just think it would make his life unnecessarily hard. Cross dressers aren't exactly the most accepted group by society.

Coeurdepirate

First of all, what an inspirational mother you are. Not many parents would be so supportive of having gender-fluid (is this term correct?) children, so be proud of yourself.

Regarding your fears of him being harassed as a result of his flamboyancy, I'd like to echo what other posters said in that he will likely grow out of that as he ages. When I first came out at 15 I was as camp as Christmas and very into the "emo" scene, whereas now people are usually surprised to learn that I'm gay. Of course there are still lots of inherently nasty people out there, but most would have enough sense to leave a 14 year old alone.

Again - congrats on your acceptance, it'll do wonders for your relationship with your son!

Rushwan

Hi there, not on here very often-I think I am in a very similar position to yourself-my son came out to us at 15, was very flamboyant with it, got into a bit of trouble in school due to another student having a problem with his "gayness" He is a drag queen since he was about 16-17, has been very happy doing this & has even given me make up tips & done my make up on quite a few occasions & helped me shopping for clothes. I think it's great you are embracing your son for what he is & what he wants, keep up the good work!