Wolf Hall [BBC]

InTheTrees

Is anyone else watching this? An adaptation of Hilary Mantels books about the period when Henry 8th broke with Rome.

Fascinating and a lavish production.

Remarkable performance too by Mark Rylance as Thomas Cromwell (who was no relation to Oliver).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kT2lMkhldc

Harry Palmr

Yep I'm watching having not read the Mantel books. Very good, everyone is top notch esp Rylance who seems to have been born with the demeanour of a subtle 16th century schemer! The lighting is esp impressive - we've come along way from Barry Lyndon which required Kodak and Zeiss to develop better technology so the candle lit scenes could be filmed.

The use of language in such a drama is interesting - they have kept with Mantels approach which is to use terms, idioms etc which are essentially modern whereas Ripper Street decided to go with genuine late Victorian English which although only 120-125 years ago sounds quite different. I suppose if everyone was "forsaking and forsoothing" it would be quite hard going,

SaveOurLyric

InTheTrees wrote: »

Remarkable performance too by Mark Rylance as Thomas Cromwell (who was no relation to Oliver).

What's remarkable about it ? A complete expressionless blank for me and a total non event at the heart of it that sinks the series. His expressions span the range from wan to woebegone.
3rd ep was a bit better than the first two but still no great shakes.
British press seems to have decreed the series a masterpiece almost before it aired at at all, and none are prepared to call out the emperor's new clothes.

FloatingVoter

Mark Rylance is the Greatest Stage Actor Of His Generation. Oo say those that know these things. Personally, he makes Pat Kenny seem charismatic. He is a letdown in this just as in anything else I've ever seen him in. Damien Lewis is enjoying himself playing Henry though. I keep expecting Claire Danes to show up.

Wyldwood

I think Rylance is portraying Cromwell very well based on the way he is described by Mantel in the books. She depicts him as a character who doesn't display emotions, even after he has become embittered by the goings-on in the Royal Courts.

iguana

InTheTrees wrote: »

Remarkable performance too by Mark Rylance as Thomas Cromwell (who was no relation to Oliver).

Yes he was. Thomas was Oliver's great, great gran-uncle.

Snoopy1

Well im really liking the show, and I think Cromwell is very good

changepartners

Nice to see a subtle Henry VIII performance!

Harry Palmr

Best thing on the box, it seems some were expecting a Tudors style tit and ass version of history rather than something made in the grand tradition of BBC Two historical dramas, well more fool them.

FloatingVoter

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Best thing on the box, it seems some were expecting a Tudors style tit and ass version of history rather than something made in the grand tradition of BBC Two historical dramas, well more fool them.

I was expecting something along the lines of The Godfather - which is exactly how twisted and murderous that period of history was. Anyone who has read serious non-fictional histories of the Tudor period knows it would be almost impossible to make it boring. We were wrong. It is possible.
I wasn't expecting the leading characters to be barely awake. Rylance is asleep as he always is when challenged by a camera. Thomas More has the charisma of a yardbrush. Damien Lewis is playing Les Battersby excellently. It's hemorrhaging viewers weekly and deservedly so.
This is no I, Claudius or Jewel In the Crown. Yawn With The Frown more likely.

The Pooka

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I was expecting something along the lines of The Godfather - which is exactly how twisted and murderous that period of history was. Anyone who has read serious non-fictional histories of the Tudor period knows it would be almost impossible to make it boring. We were wrong. It is possible.
I wasn't expecting the leading characters to be barely awake. Rylance is asleep as he always is when challenged by a camera. Thomas More has the charisma of a yardbrush. Damien Lewis is playing Les Battersby excellently. It's hemorrhaging viewers weekly and deservedly so.
This is no I, Claudius or Jewel In the Crown. Yawn With The Frown more likely.

Ouch! Can't say I agree with any of that - I find it's like watching a mini-Shakespeare play every week.

changepartners

It's not great but it's better than some recent BBC attempts at historical drama much better than the Wars of the Roses one they did last year.

If you want a brilliantly done historical series look up Les Rois Maudits from the '70s on YouTube, someone has put it up with English subtitles. It's not that tons happens in the show but thanks to the actors and pacing it isn't boring for 1 second.

queensinead

I'm enjoying it...great nuanced acting and lovely sets, but without Mantel's voice and prose it's missing something that the novel had

For action packed drama and ham acting you can't beat the 1969 film Anne Of The Thousand Days with a swashbuckling Richard Burton playing a brilliant, over-the-top Henry, and the French Canadian actress Genevieve Bujold playing a pert, minx-like Anne Boleyn

The BBC did a series called Elizabeth R in the 1970s with Glenda Jackson playing Elizabeth 1. It was the best period drama I ever saw--superb, brilliant acting from Jackson who owned the part..

I still think I, Claudius, Brideshead Revisited and The Jewel In The Crown were outstanding in a way modern mini-series never seem to be

Wolf Hall is good, but on a much, much smaller scale

queensinead

I'm enjoying it...great nuanced acting and lovely sets, but without Mantel's voice and prose it's missing something that the novel had

For action packed drama and ham acting you can't beat the 1969 film Anne Of The Thousand Days with a swashbuckling Richard Burton playing a brilliant, over-the-top Henry, and the French Canadian actress Genevieve Bujold playing a pert, minx-like Anne Boleyn

The BBC did a series called Elizabeth R in the 1970s with Glenda Jackson playing Elizabeth 1. It was the best period drama I ever saw--superb, brilliant acting from Jackson who owned the part..

I still think I, Claudius, Brideshead Revisited and The Jewel In The Crown were outstanding in a way modern mini-series never seem to be

Wolf Hall is good, but on a much, much smaller scale

FloatingVoter

^ Watch A Man for All Seasons.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060665/

Paul Scofield as More, Robert Shaw as Henry. Written by Robert Bolt. Better actors. Better writer. You won't need anything to help you stay awake.

Harry Palmr

I have no idea why you are having such problems staying awake, if its that bad don't watch.

FloatingVoter

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I have no idea why you are having such problems staying awake, if its that bad don't watch.

I'm implying its boring. I watch because I'm entitled to.

Birneybau

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I'm implying its boring. I watch because I'm entitled to.

Of course you're entitled to watch something that bores you :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think it's great.

Expunge

I'm enjoying it too, looks like the Beeb spent a nice few pound on it.

It seems to have become a ratings flop, loosing a million viewers or a quarter of the audience after episode one.

AA Gill in the Sunday Times reckoned it's typical Notting Hill 'Tristram types', as he calls them, BBC executives commissioning for themselves and not for the public.

Might be unfair, but loosing a quarter of the audience is no joke.

Harry Palmr

Hardly matters with programmes like this - the media likes to make a noise but its getting 3 million viewers live since episode 2 and 4 million after a week. Prestige drama sells to every corner of the globe and will shift big units on DVD etc.

Good loser

I think it's excellent through and through.

The menace and tension at the centre of power excellently portrayed - lives constantly at risk!

Henry's character well fleshed out.

Love the natural lighting and settings.

Harry Palmr

That French bird needs knocking off. :pac:

Harry Palmr

Wolf Hall the most watched BBC Two drama since current ratings system began in 2002

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/mar/06/wolf-hall-is-bbc2s-most-popular-drama-since-modern-ratings-began-in-2002

The six-part series, starring Mark Rylance as Thomas Cromwell, Damian Lewis as Henry VIII and Claire Foy as Anne Boleyn, had an average of 4.4 million viewers a week, a 15.8% share of the audience.

It was just ahead of the channel’s previous biggest rating drama, its 2002 adaptation of Sarah Waters’ Tipping the Velvet.

FloatingVoter

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Wolf Hall the most watched BBC Two drama since current ratings system began in 2002

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/mar/06/wolf-hall-is-bbc2s-most-popular-drama-since-modern-ratings-began-in-2002

It was...but still only half the viewers of Death In Paradise (BBC1) or Call The Midwife (ITV). I wonder why the BBC didn't air it on BBC1.

SaveOurLyric

FloatingVoter wrote: »

It was...but still only half the viewers of Death In Paradise (BBC1) or Call The Midwife (ITV). I wonder why the BBC didn't air it on BBC1.

Cus then it wouldn't get headlines like " the most watched BBC Two drama since current ratings system began in 2002".
Missed trick though, could have put it on BBC 4. Might have been 'the most watched BBC4 drama EVER!'. Which would have made it even better.

Harry Palmr

FloatingVoter wrote: »

It was...but still only half the viewers of Death In Paradise (BBC1) or Call The Midwife (ITV). I wonder why the BBC didn't air it on BBC1.

Because it was commissioned for BBC Two, in the same way Call the Midwife was commissioned for BBC One. You appear not to have much understanding of how this sort of thing works. Stations have identities which while sometime a bit loose and too flexible tend to stand a channel in good stead. Dramas on BBC Two tend to be a bit more complex and darker (not literally!) in tone - hence stuff like The Fall, BBC One shows Death in Paradise and New Tricks (though the latter could delve into the grubby undergrowth it tended to be leavened by humour).

FloatingVoter

Plenty of shows have been commissioned for one of the Beebs and subsequently moved to another. Some start out on BBC3 / BBC4 before getting promoted to one of the two main channels (Torchwood started on BBC3 as a Dr. Who spin-off). Similarly, demotions occur. Although with the imminent moving of BBC 3 to online only this route will be closed off to programmes "suitable for a younger audience".
4.5m is respectable enough (it stayed consistent after the initial fall-off in live viewers) for Wolf Hall but they could have aired on the larger channel on the mainly dead Tuesday night and probably increased that to 6m.