Carb rebuild

Diabhalta

Is 260 euro a rip-off for a carb rebuild? Not sure if serious, but they actually are. Considering, that some part have been replaced by myself. So we are talking about taking it apart, cleaning it at putting it together. That can't be worth so much money when brand new carb is available (same type) for 350euro from UK. Any thoughts on this?

edit: ok, plus replacing a gasket and few bolts ... maybe jets. But still ... 260?

kev1.3s

What are the carbs and what are they off?

T5180

You have not specified what model carburettor you need rebuilt so it is almost impossible to advise you .
There is an enormous difference between rebuilding a twin choke carb with automatic choke and cold start circuits and a single choke downdraught with manual choke . A full rebuild should include throttle spindle bushes which need to be installed reamed in position , have you considered the time required to carry out this?
With all due respect if you have already replaced some of the components on the carb , this work will need to be re-checked by the rebuilder as he will assume responsibility for the unit once he takes on the job .
The cost of a new unit is irrelevant to the rebuilder , you either want your carb rebuilt or it is more economical for you to buy a new one , at the end of the day to stay in business he needs to cover his costs .
If you take an estimated cost of a repair kit at €120 and add on two hours labour and something to cover warranty €260 sounds reasonable to me .

deckie27

Why dont you buy a new one ..............sell yours should be cheaper

Diabhalta

T5180 wrote: »

You have not specified what model carburettor you need rebuilt so it is almost impossible to advise you .
There is an enormous difference between rebuilding a twin choke carb with automatic choke and cold start circuits and a single choke downdraught with manual choke . A full rebuild should include throttle spindle bushes which need to be installed reamed in position , have you considered the time required to carry out this?
With all due respect if you have already replaced some of the components on the carb , this work will need to be re-checked by the rebuilder as he will assume responsibility for the unit once he takes on the job .
The cost of a new unit is irrelevant to the rebuilder , you either want your carb rebuilt or it is more economical for you to buy a new one , at the end of the day to stay in business he needs to cover his costs .
If you take an estimated cost of a repair kit at €120 and add on two hours labour and something to cover warranty €260 sounds reasonable to me .

it's a twin choke with auto choke.

first you say "have you considered the time required to carry out this" and then you say "two hours of labour" ... labour is labour. If a mechanic replaces something in 5 minutes because the bolts are not seized, or 15 minutes because they are seized, at the end it doesn't matter. It's still a same task. If it will take him 60 minutes, then it is his problem. He can't charge one hour of labour because it took him so long.

There isn't much to be re-checked when somebody replaces fuel filter, idle jets etc.

Wouldn't it make no point for a business to keep rebuilding carbs when they do it at a price of a rebuilt unit (exact same carb on ebay, rebuilt, for 260 euro).

I don't know if we have the same repair kit on mind, but are you talking about the rebuild kit that consist of two gaskets, two diaphgrams, idle jets, fuel filter etc.? ... it costs 25 euro on ebay. Unless you have to replace the float and another few items. Bolts are few cents each.

deckie27 wrote: »

Why dont you buy a new one ..............sell yours should be cheaper

Exactly. If I would get something between 100-150 for the old one, that would be 200 euro for a brand new one. The price of rebuilding (if 260e is correct) the carb is quite close to a brand new unit, so the question is... what is the point to have it rebuilt?

Diabhalta

isn't this the way the carb is cleaned? don't tell me they are scrubbing it with toothbrush...

CJhaughey

Diabhalta wrote: »

it's a twin choke with auto choke.

first you say "have you considered the time required to carry out this" and then you say "two hours of labour" ... labour is labour. If a mechanic replaces something in 5 minutes because the bolts are not seized, or 15 minutes because they are seized, at the end it doesn't matter. It's still a same task. If it will take him 60 minutes, then it is his problem. He can't charge one hour of labour because it took him so long.

You don't understand how charging by the hour works, if you present the mechanic with a rusted old POS and he has to unseize all the fasteners and possibly replace studs or nuts then its going to be a much more involved process than rebuilding a new carb.
Time is time and old stuff is slower to work on than newer stuff.
Anyway its simple for you, either pay for the rebuild or buy a new one.
If you aren't able to do the work yourself then your options are limited.
Bear in mind that not all carbs are the same quality, there is some pretty cheap low quality stuff out there that may fit, but may not perform how you expect.

Diabhalta

CJhaughey wrote: »

Bear in mind that not all carbs are the same quality, there is some pretty cheap low quality stuff out there that may fit, but may not perform how you expect.

I am talking about the exact same manufacturer and type. 260e rebuilt unit, 350e brand new. 260e for a carb rebuild doesn't make sense (considering that you take it apart, throw it into the ultrasonic cleaning machine, take it out and screw it together. Ok, it's not simple as that, but 260 euro is way too much).

CJhaughey

Diabhalta wrote: »

I am talking about the exact same manufacturer and type. 260e rebuilt unit, 350e brand new. 260e for a carb rebuild doesn't make sense (considering that you take it apart, throw it into the ultrasonic cleaning machine, take it out and screw it together. Ok, it's not simple as that, but 260 euro is way too much).

There is a simple solution to that , just buy a new one!

macplaxton

Diabhalta wrote: »

Is 260 euro a rip-off for a carb rebuild? Not sure if serious, but they actually are. Considering, that some part have been replaced by myself.

Diabhalta wrote: »

Ok, it's not simple as that, but 260 euro is way too much).

Are you for real?

Ok, you asked for thoughts. They've been given by others, and I'll add that €260 is fair and reasonable if they are quoting for a top to bottom rebuild.

As you say "it's not [as] simple as that", if it was you would of just done it yourself. You've fiddled with it, it still doesn't perform satisfactorily. Now you want someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.

Here's an example of refurbishment of a Solex Z13 carb:
http://www.volvo300mania.com/uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=15684

Quite a bit of work involved, don't you think?

This lack of appreciation of time / expertise involved in doing particular jobs is one principle reason I won't do repair or restoration work as a business. Far too many folk want the job done for a tenner an hour when they wouldn't get out of bed for less than 30/h.

CJhaughey

Reminds me of the sign hanging on the old mechanics door, fixing a problem 35 per hour, fixing a problem that someone else has tried and failed to fix 70 per hour.
This is your hobby, to the carb refurb guy its his job.
Don't ever confuse the two.

macplaxton

Aye, something like this:

Diabhalta

...it is still absurd.

Boskowski

I did this myself for my classic bike using a carb kit. Was easy enough and cost me €20.

K.Flyer

Diabhalta wrote: »

[...]He can't charge one hour of labour because it took him so long.

Why not.?
If that's how long it takes to do the job why shouldn't he charge for his time.
You are also paying for his equipment, his knowledge and workshop.
You also have the benefit of calling into them if something is not quite right after it has been refitted. Not as easily done when bought online from the U.K.

swarlb

Diabhalta wrote: »

...it is still absurd.

Are you saying it's absurd for YOUR carb, or for a carb repair in general. I had a carb overhauled close on 15 years ago by McNamaras. I think they charged something like 300 at the time. It involved fitting new spindles/butterflies, which involved machining to the casing, as well as jets, emulsion tubes, gaskets and so on. At the time, the carb was approx 45 years old, now it's obviously 60, and works as good as it did when it was new. And while you might come across a decent used carb (which would still require work), a new one does not exist.
So I suppose it depends on the carb, the amount of work/time involved.
The question remains, if you know so much about the procedure (which clearly you say is very simple) and you had the parts... why didn't you just do the job yourself ?

T5180

"it's a twin choke with auto choke.

first you say "have you considered the time required to carry out this" and then you say "two hours of labour" ... labour is labour. If a mechanic replaces something in 5 minutes because the bolts are not seized, or 15 minutes because they are seized, at the end it doesn't matter. It's still a same task. If it will take him 60 minutes, then it is his problem. He can't charge one hour of labour because it took him so long.

There isn't much to be re-checked when somebody replaces fuel filter, idle jets etc.

Wouldn't it make no point for a business to keep rebuilding carbs when they do it at a price of a rebuilt unit (exact same carb on ebay, rebuilt, for 260 euro).

I don't know if we have the same repair kit on mind, but are you talking about the rebuild kit that consist of two gaskets, two diaphgrams, idle jets, fuel filter etc.? ... it costs 25 euro on ebay. Unless you have to replace the float and another few items. Bolts are few cents each."



I have rarely read such utter bull**** .
Please go back to tinkering with this on you own and stop wasting the time of good intentioned people who are willing to offer you advice .

Diabhalta

swarlb wrote: »

why didn't you just do the job yourself ?

I thought you would do it... for fiver (of course)

T5180 wrote: »

I have rarely read such utter bull**** .
Please go back to tinkering with this on you own and stop wasting the time of good intentioned people who are willing to offer you advice .

can you please show me where I can get a repair kit worth 120 euro? Never seen anything like that before. Just curious.

swarlb

Diabhalta wrote: »

I thought you would do it... for fiver (of course)

Why would I do it ?? I don't know the first thing about repairing a carburettor. That's why I got a carb repair place to do the work. In your original post, you mention that it was a simple enough job of cleaning etc, plus you supplied the parts.
Anyway, it matters not. In MY case I didn't consider it to be a rip off for the repairs.

T5180

Diabhalta wrote: »

I thought you would do it... for fiver (of course)




can you please show me where I can get a repair kit worth 120 euro? Never seen anything like that before. Just curious.

Here is a page full of them from £40 to £99 sterling :

sucarb.co.uk/carburettor-kits/rebuild-kits/major-repair-kits-including-needle.


Add on vat and shipping and you find €120 was not too far out of an estimate considering we did not know what Carb you were talking about .
Anyway ,best of luck whatever way you decide to go .

kev1.3s

Well this has escalated quickly, for what it's worth a friend of mine goth both his solex twin choke phh's refurbishe in Italy for €150 plus shipping a couple of years ago, so that's a total of four chokes they came back looking like brand new ( a refurb kit costs between €20 and €50). I contacted him last year and he told me he'd do mine for €200 plus shipping but I decided to do them myself because especially with phh's there really not much to them.