Best Suckler Cow

charolais0153

What in your opinion is the best sucler cow I think a limousine that is the 2nd generation away from the freisan they can produce excellent ch, bb and lim calves and they have bucket loads of milk

Farrell

charolais0153 wrote: »

What in your opinion is the best sucler cow I think a limousine that is the 2nd generation away from the freisan they can produce excellent ch, bb and lim calves and they have bucket loads of milk

Plus their calves should come the right colours

eoinmk2

id be interested to hear peoples opinion on salers.

Miname

it all depends what your looking for. limo x sim for a ch bull. a limo xsh either and youll get a good farmers calf. limo x blonde for the blue or pt bull or even a limo out of a bbx fr, for that export grade animal. ive a blonde x sim cow here that consistently throws a super calf from any bull, ive even a heifer of hers that she had after a screw of a friesain got at her that is going to make a fairly decent cow.
i dont know much about parts as ive only the one but she threw a smashing golden coloured calf from the charlaois this year.

Count Mondego

eoinmk2 wrote: »

id be interested to hear peoples opinion on salers.

Had a vet out the last day and asked him what were the craziest cows he'd come across. He said saler followed by limo, but defo Saler. The only cow he ever saw to jump into a crush.

Willfarman

I firmly believe the best suckler cow for me is the one belonging to someone else and in someone else's field!

blue5000

OP how do you define the best suckler cow? Is it the most efficient/quality of weanling/ longeviety/fertility/milk/progeny capable of 400kg dw under 16mths(with 2 ton of meal)/ colour of calf(ffs)? There are so many variables.

One man's meat is another man's poison. But you asked for my opinion and it is angus x british fresian. I think one of the most important traits for a suckler cow is that she produce a calf that is 60% of her liveweight at weaning without meal, every 365 days, not 400.

eoinmk2

what bull are you using on the aaxbf? any why?

AP2014

Willfarman wrote: »

I firmly believe the best suckler cow for me is the one belonging to someone else and in someone else's field!

Definitely and is low cost maintenance so they produce a nice cheap weanling

Willfarman

The cow has to drop a calf that's worth 3 or 4 hundred euro more than beef cross on a middle of the road holstein cow as a bench mark. In my view you can only consistently achieve this with continental cows.. And it is achievable. It's incredible what's possible with breeding and milk. I seen a 700 kg bull yesterday that is genuinely under 16 mths of age. Sim char cow by lim bull.

blue5000

eoinmk2 wrote: »

what bull are you using on the aaxbf? any why?

Blonde and aubrac. Easy calving and get up and suck by themselves. I'm not selling weanlings though.

severeoversteer

Willfarman wrote: »

I seen a 700 kg bull yesterday that is genuinely under 16 mths of age. Sim char cow by lim bull.

had 850kg char x sim bull at 16 months
and a 750kg bb x ch bullat 15 months

the bbx killed heavier, twas a shame to kill him, serious beast


but with the way the industry is id be better off with a blast of polly cows throwing angus and Hereford calves, run as extensively as possible with low inputs, finishing all stock

charolais0153

blue5000 wrote: »

Blonde and aubrac. Easy calving and get up and suck by themselves. I'm not selling weanlings though.

What colour would the blondes be, do u keep any for breeding. Also what I meant was in your opinion whats your favourite cow

Justjens

Anything quiet and with plenty of milk. That rules out Salers then!

I still have 2 SalerX on the place, they know no fear and even when not rearing a calf you treat them with respect!

jfh

funny we have a few Salers & they're very quiet. unbelievably stubborn though

blue5000

charolais0153 wrote: »

What colour would the blondes be, do u keep any for breeding. Also what I meant was in your opinion whats your favourite cow

Blondes out of aax cows are nearly always black/very dark brown. We get an odd red one, but these usually come from cows with lim breeding 2 or 3 generations back. Haven't kept any for breeding so far, some of the neighbours have but they are hit and miss for milk.

charolais0153

blue5000 wrote: »

Blondes out of aax cows are nearly always black/very dark brown. We get an odd red one, but these usually come from cows with lim breeding 2 or 3 generations back. Haven't kept any for breeding so far, some of the neighbours have but they are hit and miss for milk.

Would they be goog breeders I never used blonds before but I thought they would be ideal for a blue

Willfarman

severeoversteer wrote: »

had 850kg char x sim bull at 16 months
and a 750kg bb x ch bullat 15 months

the bbx killed heavier, twas a shame to kill him, serious beast


but with the way the industry is id be better off with a blast of polly cows throwing angus and Hereford calves, run as extensively as possible with low inputs, finishing all stock

You will never produce a hereford or Angus that will leave the enough of a premium over what the milky moos are producing. Just doesn't make sense to go this route imo

AP2014

Willfarman wrote: »

You will never produce a hereford or Angus that will leave the enough of a premium over what the milky moos are producing. Just doesn't make sense to go this route imo

Think ya hit the hail on the head, unfortunately most suckler lads aren't sure what they need to produce to make a profit. Infairness they can get away with it with sfp and the fact most are part-time and have an off farm job to keep the show on the road.

severeoversteer

Willfarman wrote: »

You will never produce a hereford or Angus that will leave the enough of a premium over what the milky moos are producing. Just doesn't make sense to go this route imo

by milky moo's you mean dairy!?

not a notion would I go dairy, havnt the time
got a business to run, wages to pay

at least the angus and Herefords would look after themselves and flesh easy

Count Mondego

I have a good mix of sucklers ranging from LM, SIMx, CHX and AA/FR. Have a good pedigree LM bull which I think is the key, he determines half the genetics of the offspring after all. My summary of what I have:

LM: Good all-rounder cows but some can be short of milk. This doesn't impact me too much as I finish and I believe milk just pumps up weanlings. Docility not always great but not terrible.

SIMx: The best cattle I produce are from this breed crossed with LM bull. Super cattle that have good frame and still look more LM than Sim which sell better. Finish well on grass too. Only downfall is the cows are a bit soft and rangey. Can get the odd cracked one too.

CHx: Massive cows producing great calves but higher mortality that all other breeds. Calves want to die. Cows probably eat as much as 2 AAs.

AA/FR: Bought as calves and used for replacement as ones above croaked. Good temperament and can produce good stock, bought cheap. Loads of milk and calves are hardy. Finished stock need to be moved early or they can get overfat even if half LM. Doesn't alway suit my system as they could be gone before June.

Going forward I'll be looking to expand with LM/Sim cows with the odd AA. Only my simple observations on my own stock.

Farmer Pudsey

Best suckler cows are the one's I have.:o

ellewood

A cow that calves on the 1st of Feb every year.
Weans a calf (preferably a bull calf) on Nov 1st at least 60% her bodyweight on 100kgs of creep before weaning and grades a U or better.
A cow thats still able to increase bcs on autum grass before the winter so she can be fed a restricted diet for the winter.
Thats all:D
Dosent matter colour or breed if she can do that every year for 6 or 7 years in a row, oh yea and make more than her replacement costs when finished!

Willfarman

severeoversteer wrote: »

by milky moo's you mean dairy!?

not a notion would I go dairy, havnt the time
got a business to run, wages to pay

at least the angus and Herefords would look after themselves and flesh easy

I'm not suggesting you go dairy I'm suggesting that you it isn't possible to breed Angus or hereford cattle out of the suckler herd that will leave enough of a premium to justify their existence compared to an Angus or whitehead calf a square fr cow will drop.

Farrell

blue5000 wrote: »

Blonde and aubrac. Easy calving and get up and suck by themselves. I'm not selling weanlings though.

What sort of colours are they bringing? - Mousey brown?

Willfarman

charolais0153 wrote: »

Would they be goog breeders I never used blonds before but I thought they would be ideal for a blue

I know of a large herd in co wexford breeding exactly this. Were featured in the farmers journal years back. Big growthy shapey lean cattle. Hard to get a fat cover on Bulls.

blue5000

Willfarman wrote: »

You will never produce a hereford or Angus that will leave the enough of a premium over what the milky moos are producing. Just doesn't make sense to go this route imo

Willfarman wrote: »

I'm not suggesting you go dairy I'm suggesting that you it isn't possible to breed Angus or hereford cattle out of the suckler herd that will leave enough of a premium to justify their existence compared to an Angus or whitehead calf a square fr cow will drop.

OP was talking about cow type, not the type of bull to use on suckler cows. You are not really comparing like with like, if I used an angus bull on aa/whitehead x cows they'd probably only be 50kg carcase weight heavier than angus calves from a dairy herd. But if I used a charolais bull on angus/hereford x cows and compared them to charolais x from dairy cows I'd be up 2 full grades, probably 100-150kg of carcase weight as well, and if the dairy cow was able to stand up after calving, well that's another story.

But you are right, lads in my suckler discussion group have bought in suck calves and there is only about €400 of a difference slaughtering at 22 months, at 16 months there is a bigger difference.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Would they be goog breeders I never used blonds before but I thought they would be ideal for a blue

One problem with blondes is that they have a long gestation period themselves, so if you cross them with lim or char they could go 300 days, making it harder for them to calve within 365 days. Using a blue bull might be better, provided calving goes ok. Some blond bloodlines are very poor on milk eg KOY, they are actually minus for milk. I use my blonde bull as a terminal sire, this way I can keep him for longer with none of his heifers kept.

Yes, Farrell mousey brown, or a bit darker, if you look through my old posts you will find photos. Not great sellers as weanlings as the exporters don't really want them because the angus breeding makes them go too fat in Italian feedlots.

onyerbikepat

Count Mondego wrote: »

...
SIMx: The best cattle I produce are from this breed crossed with LM bull. Super cattle that have good frame and still look more LM than Sim which sell better. Finish well on grass too. Only downfall is the cows are a bit soft and rangey. Can get the odd cracked one too.
....

Ya, would agee with all your post. My overall breeding plan is 2 generations limousin followed by simmental. The simmentals frustrate the hell out me though. The bulls available in NCBC seem to lack milk and then they lost a lot of them with the IBR outbreak. Seepa Tee Jay (IS4) was a good bull at the time. Hard to know with the new ones. I have a feeling APZ, as a few people on here have said, won't be great for shape, especially at the hips. Time will tell, I suppose.

Nettleman

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Ya, would agee with all your post. My overall breeding plan is 2 generations limousin followed by simmental. The simmentals frustrate the hell out me though. The bulls available in NCBC seem to lack milk and then they lost a lot of them with the IBR outbreak. Seepa Tee Jay (IS4) was a good bull at the time. Hard to know with the new ones. I have a feeling APZ, as a few people on here have said, won't be great for shape, especially at the hips. Time will tell, I suppose.

Im doing it the other way round, SIM to breed SIM heifers first, then gives me options to cross with CH or LM next generation-long game.;)

essgee268

how did you find IS4 Daughters for milk ?

onyerbikepat

essgee268 wrote: »

how did you find IS4 Daughters for milk ?

Exceptionally quiet, not too big, very fertile (they'll come bulling at a very young age), but not great for milk. You'd want decent enough milk in the mother to begin with.

Woodcliffe

we have many crossbreeds on the farm, but there is one that always throws a lovely calf, and that's the blonde cow. the blonde has great width and height. we have a few blonde cattle and they all have great temperament, they cross great with any bull. we use the BB, we find that the Charolais bull for suckler farming is a heart breaker, u cant move bone when calving. suggested bull type would be Limousin, Belgian Blue & Angus.

Feckthis

http://www.agriland.ie/news/actually-cost-keep-suckler-cow-year/

AP2014

Feckthis wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/news/actually-cost-keep-suckler-cow-year/

Jesus do they pull these figures out of their holes? I reckon they could up any figure here by 1 or 2 and everyone still would agree. For example fert/lime €7000 and fixed costs at €19600 and the same clowns that agree with the previous figures would agree with the new ones.

Milked out

AP2014 wrote: »

Jesus do they pull these figures out of their holes? I reckon they could up any figure here by 1 or 2 and everyone still would agree. For example fert/lime €7000 and fixed costs at €19600 and the same clowns that agree with the previous figures would agree with the new ones.

It said they got them from profit monitor reports, where do you think they should differ, up or down

Willfarman

The fixed costs would vary hugely from farm to farm,As would fertilizer needs. But the overall point makes sense.

Nettleman

AP2014 wrote: »

Jesus do they pull these figures out of their holes? I reckon they could up any figure here by 1 or 2 and everyone still would agree. For example fert/lime €7000 and fixed costs at €19600 and the same clowns that agree with the previous figures would agree with the new ones.

These figures are pure nonsence and as usual, farmer not allowed anything for his labour, his own land cost or the fact that he has his hard earned cash tied up in a suckler cow-also a suckler cows own value falls with age, (10 year old cow not worth same as a 3 year old) and theres no cost factored in here for raising replacements, who even if they calve at 24 months, theres 12 - 15 months upkeep to be costed on matched with no income, and 20% replacement rate is generally assumed. Other important point is that lower income farmers generally don't bother using PM, as they don't use teagasc. If their €4/kg for breakeven is based off similar research, then I would doubt that's accurate either. :mad:

J DEERE

I have to disagree with what's being said about salers and temperament. We have had a few and they're grand. Lovely cows with a big pelvis, they would calve an elephant. Plenty of milk too. Often times the docility of an animal is determined by the farmer. If u have a man who gets easily excited in the yard then odds are his stock do as well

Farmer Pudsey

Nettleman wrote: »

These figures are pure nonsence and as usual, farmer not allowed anything for his labour, his own land cost or the fact that he has his hard earned cash tied up in a suckler cow-also a suckler cows own value falls with age, (10 year old cow not worth same as a 3 year old) and theres no cost factored in here for raising replacements, who even if they calve at 24 months, theres 12 - 15 months upkeep to be costed on matched with no income, and 20% replacement rate is generally assumed. Other important point is that lower income farmers generally don't bother using PM, as they don't use teagasc. If their €4/kg for breakeven is based off similar research, then I would doubt that's accurate either. :mad:

Wouldn't agree totally. Is any busisness man allowed anything for his labour or his investment. No it a business it the profits pay the business man. I think a lot of lads want double accounting.

I would not necessary agree that it is the lower income farmers thst do not PM. I say it older lads running low cost systems wheather they are profitable or not is another question. On replacments and suckler cow value the in a 20% replacement system the cow should more than cover the costs of the replacment. So you get back to production and Teagasc figures.

They have a point about empty cows. A 20% non weaning rate is huge.too Many are too sentimintal about cows, farming and sentiment are no good bed mates.The stocking rate on this farm is not high @60 cows to 100 acres and if calf weight is 300 kgs then in general you would expect that they are sold at or near 6 months. Your stocking rate is 1.5 units/HA. Fertlizer/lime looks high for this stocking rate contractor bill is OK if not a tad low if bale silage. Vets bill looks a tad high other variable costs we can leave as is as they vary from farm to farm.

Fixed costs are huge at nearly 19K. If you look at it from a capitall allowances point this lads has nearly 150K tied up in fixed cost investments. He has a fancy tractor and a 4WD as well as a shed etc. IMO it shopuld be possible to keep sucker cows at less than 500/head. I still question the profitability of it unless you are producing an export type calf you would want a weaning rate of 90+% and a calf at or near 400kgs.

Livestockmad

A lmxsim has a decent bit of milk and has a lovely charolais calf
A charolais out of a AA or HE from british friesan make lovely cows and calves are reasonably easy fleshed
I also like salers and bought 8 that are soon calving. I must say that iv fallen in love with them... (sssh dont tell the OH) they are the quitest heifers iv ever seen I can scratch them in the pen no hassle but they can be stubborn!
Also I have a lim from dovea cwi out of a shorthorn cow and shes very nice so far and grand size

Buford T. Justice XIX

ellewood wrote: »

A cow that calves on the 1st of Feb every year.
Weans a calf (preferably a bull calf) on Nov 1st at least 60% her bodyweight on 100kgs of creep before weaning and grades a U or better.
A cow thats still able to increase bcs on autum grass before the winter so she can be fed a restricted diet for the winter.
Thats all:D
Dosent matter colour or breed if she can do that every year for 6 or 7 years in a row, oh yea and make more than her replacement costs when finished!

Spot on. Simple and achievable.

sonnybill

Had a hr X Lm cow up the chute for ai and I looked at her, her 3 daughters from last three years in pen with her, KEZ , KEZ , GKA.. She is 15 years old and exactly 6 weeks calved .. Some cow !
Attached is yearling , she got sim again just in case!!

High bike

sonnybill wrote: »

Had a hr X Lm cow up the chute for ai and I looked at her, her 3 daughters from last three years in pen with her, KEZ , KEZ , GKA.. She is 15 years old and exactly 6 weeks calved .. Some cow !
Attached is yearling , she got sim again just in case!!

good call she looks a cracker

Never wrestle with pigs

sonnybill wrote: »

Had a hr X Lm cow up the chute for ai and I looked at her, her 3 daughters from last three years in pen with her, KEZ , KEZ , GKA.. She is 15 years old and exactly 6 weeks calved .. Some cow !
Attached is yearling , she got sim again just in case!!

How much do you want for her? Ha

High bike

J DEERE wrote: »

I have to disagree with what's being said about salers and temperament. We have had a few and they're grand. Lovely cows with a big pelvis, they would calve an elephant. Plenty of milk too. Often times the docility of an animal is determined by the farmer. If u have a man who gets easily excited in the yard then odds are his stock do as well

totally agree have a couple of limx cows here that are nut jobs,you don't go near em for a few days after calving and always hard to handle.They were bought in so have always been like that, have sim x daughters of theirs that were reared here and u can scratch em in the field and no prob handling them

tanko

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Ya, would agee with all your post. My overall breeding plan is 2 generations limousin followed by simmental. The simmentals frustrate the hell out me though. The bulls available in NCBC seem to lack milk and then they lost a lot of them with the IBR outbreak. Seepa Tee Jay (IS4) was a good bull at the time. Hard to know with the new ones. I have a feeling APZ, as a few people on here have said, won't be great for shape, especially at the hips. Time will tell, I suppose.

Insightful words about APZ from over two yeas ago:cool:

sonnybill

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

How much do you want for her? Ha

The old dear or the yearling?!! She fine animal no doubt .. Full sister is 24 months and not as nice but that's genetics for ya!

sonnybill

High bike wrote: »

good call she looks a cracker

She'd hardly have 4 heifers on the bounce but sim she got anyway just in case

Limestone Cowboy

Best bull calf I had last year was out of a lim x he cow aswell.

Future Farmer

LM off of a MO very hard beatwn (and harder got!), like the SA off of the CH. Really depends on your system, a fertile cow with milk is tops! :-)

patsy_mccabe

Future Farmer wrote: »

LM off of a MO very hard beatwn (and harder got!), like the SA off of the CH. Really depends on your system, a fertile cow with milk is tops! :-)

Do you have many of these? I put up a photo of one I have, about a week ago. I'd go for them again, if I could.