rent supplement rates

makeorbrake

Someone known to me is on disability benefit. They've just been informed of a rent increase. Currently receiving €50 in rent supplement / week. Paying 90 (and will now be paying 100/week) rent. I don't know exactly how that breaks down - I know that he has to make a certain contribution. On top of that, he was paying something like €15 extra (over and above what was approved as total rent for that property).

Notwithstanding all of that, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense that he's only getting 50quid a week in support.

The rate I've seen for that county for a single person is €475/month (therefore €109.61/week). Now - I know they are applying different rates dependent upon the specific area within each county but notwithstanding that, does the above scenario sound right?

Is the schedule/threshold level for each specific area within a county - available for public viewing? Is there somewhere I can access this??

Th3B1tcH

Can view rates here topping up is not allowed also
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

makeorbrake

Th3B1tcH wrote: »

Can view rates here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

Yes, that's what I was quoting from. However, when he got this sorted out originally, the cwo told him they applied specific rates to areas within the county - i.e. considerably reduced rates in comparison to the general rate that is quoted on that webpage.

Is there a listing for specific areas published somewhere.

Graces7

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, that's what I was quoting from. However, when he got this sorted out originally, the cwo told him they applied specific rates to areas within the county - i.e. considerably reduced rates in comparison to the general rate that is quoted on that webpage.

Is there a listing for specific areas published somewhere.

You need to scroll down that web page as the rates are near the bottom. For each county. As someone has said topping up is not allowed so if the rent increase brings to a sum above the county limit your friend could lose all help. And you have to declare the rent amount both landlord and tenant.

makeorbrake

Graces7 wrote: »

You need to scroll down that web page as the rates are near the bottom. For each county.

Thanks but please see what I've written above. Im looking for a listing that drills down further - giving rates within a county itself.

snubbleste

makeorbrake wrote: »

Thanks but please see what I've written above. Im looking for a listing that drills down further - giving rates within a county itself.

No, there is no such public list. You need to contact the CWO for the area responsible to acquire the information.
I assume a means test was applied and therefore he does not get the full rent supplement level.

makeorbrake

snubbleste wrote: »

No, there is no such public list. You need to contact the CWO for the area responsible to acquire the information.

ok, thanks - will do.

snubbleste wrote: »

I assume a means test was applied and therefore he does not get the full rent supplement level.

Means definitely doesn't come into the equation. This individual has no means whatsoever.

Gatling

Is this person renting a room /flat share

makeorbrake

Gatling wrote: »

Is this person renting a room /flat share

Renting a complete house (rural - just in case anyone's wondering how that's possible).

January

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, that's what I was quoting from. However, when he got this sorted out originally, the cwo told him they applied specific rates to areas within the county - i.e. considerably reduced rates in comparison to the general rate that is quoted on that webpage.

Is there a listing for specific areas published somewhere.

Well that's bull and the CWO was chancing their arm. The rate stays the same for the whole county, there are no rates within each county and if there were they would have to be published like the general rates are.

Tell the person you know to go back to the CWO and tell them the landlord has increased the rate and they now need the max level of RA available to them (it is also means tested). If the CWO says no, take it to their supervisor.

snubbleste

January wrote: »

Well that's bull and the CWO was chancing their arm. The rate stays the same for the whole county, there are no rates within each county and if there were they would have to be published like the general rates are.
Tell the person you know to go back to the CWO and tell them the landlord has increased the rate and they now need the max level of RA available to them (it is also means tested). If the CWO says no, take it to their supervisor.

That's false.
A maximum limit for a county is published, but within that there are local maximum rates. http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Maximum-Rent-Limits-by-County.aspx

makeorbrake

January wrote: »

Tell the person you know to go back to the CWO and tell them the landlord has increased the rate and they now need the max level of RA available to them (it is also means tested). If the CWO says no, take it to their supervisor.

I'll probably go in with him - but just trying to educate myself before that meeting.

snubbleste wrote:

That's false.
A maximum limit for a county is published, but within that there are local maximum rates. http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Maxim...by-County.aspx

Are the unpublished rates for specific areas of a county guidelines for the cwo to follow or is this applied rigidly? i.e. is it within their ability to use their discretion and apply up to the maximum county rate where they see fit?

Are these specific rates available for any member of the public to view upon request?

January

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'll probably go in with him - but just trying to educate myself before that meeting.


Are the unpublished rates for specific areas of a county guidelines for the cwo to follow or is this applied rigidly? i.e. is it within their ability to use their discretion and apply up to the maximum county rate where they see fit?

Are these specific rates available for any member of the public to view upon request?

Yes, they can do this. Honestly, I've never heard of specific lower rates within a county being used. Maybe if the difference is Galway City and the back arse of Galway county but that'd be about it.

Graces7

makeorbrake wrote: »

Thanks but please see what I've written above. Im looking for a listing that drills down further - giving rates within a county itself.

Ah no. applies per county only.

Graces7

makeorbrake wrote: »

Someone known to me is on disability benefit. They've just been informed of a rent increase. Currently receiving €50 in rent supplement / week. Paying 90 (and will now be paying 100/week) rent. I don't know exactly how that breaks down - I know that he has to make a certain contribution. On top of that, he was paying something like €15 extra (over and above what was approved as total rent for that property).

Notwithstanding all of that, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense that he's only getting 50quid a week in support.

The rate I've seen for that county for a single person is €475/month (therefore €109.61/week). Now - I know they are applying different rates dependent upon the specific area within each county but notwithstanding that, does the above scenario sound right?

Is the schedule/threshold level for each specific area within a county - available for public viewing? Is there somewhere I can access this??

This is something all of us on RA have to cope with. When RA changed a few years ago we all got letters advising us to negotiate rent reduction with our landlords and that is what your friend needs to do now. The shortfall in his case is so small that it should not be an issue. The best advice given here is that if you are not happy with what the CWO says, take it higher. To the Supervisor for the area which you can find on line. They do have some discretionary leeway. There are also Complaints Officers.

makeorbrake

Graces7 wrote: »

The shortfall in his case is so small that it should not be an issue.

Huh? He's now having to contribute €50/week?

Graces7

makeorbrake wrote: »

Huh? He's now having to contribute €50/week?

Confused here as you have quoted different figures? I think you have also implied he has been topping up? which distorts his "contribution" and is not allowed and could lose him the benefit. Also assuming he has been means tested? You and he need to make sure you present all the figures to the CWO. It really is a very simple system if you stick with the rules.

makeorbrake

Graces7 wrote: »

Confused here as you have quoted different figures? I think you have also implied he has been topping up? which distorts his "contribution" and is not allowed and could lose him the benefit. Also assuming he has been means tested? You and he need to make sure you present all the figures to the CWO. It really is a very simple system if you stick with the rules.

Ok, it looks like I was mistaken in my initial post. Let me clarify as follows;

Individual is contributing €40 to rent each week - with €50 coming in rent supplement.
Individual will be contributing €50 to rent each week (when this rent increase goes through) - with €50 coming in rent supplement.

Graces7

makeorbrake wrote: »

Ok, it looks like I was mistaken in my initial post. Let me clarify as follows;

Individual is contributing €40 to rent each week - with €50 coming in rent supplement.
Individual will be contributing €50 to rent each week (when this rent increase goes through) - with €50 coming in rent supplement.

The real issue here is surely whether or not the rent falls within the RA limit for that county. All else depends on that. If the rent is above the limit no RA. This is something only the cwo can decide on. As I aid earlier this is something all on RA have to contend with.

makeorbrake

Graces7 wrote: »

The real issue here is surely whether or not the rent falls within the RA limit for that county. All else depends on that. If the rent is above the limit no RA. This is something only the cwo can decide on. As I aid earlier this is something all on RA have to contend with.

Respectfully, as outlined in my last post, I've clarified as follows;

me wrote:

Individual is contributing €40 to rent each week - with €50 coming in rent supplement.
Individual will be contributing €50 to rent each week (when this rent increase goes through) - with €50 coming in rent supplement.

The issue is as follows;

- Is the cwo correct in setting limit as currently outlined? Is this set in stone or can I challenge it? Do they have the discretion to reset it - potentially as high as the county maximum?

I seem to be getting mixed opinions on the above. I guess I'll suggest he sets up an appointment in the first instance with the cwo - and go along with him. Will report back with the outcome.

Graces7

makeorbrake wrote: »

Respectfully, as outlined in my last post, I've clarified as follows;



The issue is as follows;

- Is the cwo correct in setting limit as currently outlined? Is this set in stone or can I challenge it? Do they have the discretion to reset it - potentially as high as the county maximum?

I seem to be getting mixed opinions on the above. I guess I'll suggest he sets up an appointment in the first instance with the cwo - and go along with him. Will report back with the outcome.

Your last Para is what I have been saying. Does not matter what anyone here think. If after the interview you think it i wrong then you can take it higher to the Supervisor for the area. Again this has been said. CWOs do have some discretionary powers but see what i said . If the rent is above the areas limits there may well be problems. When I moved here I had this discussion with my landlord and he agreed to the limit rather than have the house continue to lie empty. If the ruling goes against the increase this is worth trying.

makeorbrake

Graces7 wrote: »

When I moved here I had this discussion with my landlord and he agreed to the limit rather than have the house continue to lie empty. If the ruling goes against the increase this is worth trying.

I appreciate completely what you are saying - but the house isn't going to lie empty. He intends to apply this to a number of similar units.

Anyway...

Lets see what the cwo says...

makeorbrake

One last comment on this...


Person concerned didn't feel empowered to deal with this in the way that you have outlined above. Many people who are on RA are vulnerable and not equipped to deal with these sort of things. What may be no great ordeal to one is a major ordeal to someone who is not well.


The system should not put tenants in this position. I'm all for the state getting better value - but they should be dealing with landlords directly.

cee_jay

This is not a forum for discussing the policies and operation of the rent supplement scheme.