Are there any dedicated P.E. Teachers in Irish Schools?

LeinsterDub

Issue isn't PE teachers it's a matter of priorities. DES half an hour of religion a day for example.

Andy From Sligo

Jinonatron wrote: »

I used to love PE. In first year we had it for 90 minutes as the last class of the week. Was absolutely brilliant. We had 3 classes after lunch. Last 2 PE.

Then one year for some bizarre reason we had PE first thing after lunch and then had to change back into our uniform for the last class. So stupid.

I never understood the lads who didn't participate though. They would just sit at the side in their uniform doing nothing. Complete wasters in my opinion. No idea what they were missing. I used to love indoor soccer. I was ****e at it but always wanted to play in goal just to dive on people.

we used to have the odd few that were 'excused' from PE due to medical ailment or whatever - their mother/parent had to write a note to get you out of PE in our school

Had 2 PE only teachers in my school. Think I had 2 double lessons a week. Swimming, gymnastics, trampolining, athletics, cross country, netball, squash, badminton, hockey.

2 fully equipped gymnasiums and used Crystal Palace for swimming, track & field and sports day.

heldel00

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Issue isn't PE teachers it's a matter of priorities. DES half an hour of religion a day for example.

DES has nothing to do with religion

Andy From Sligo

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Issue isn't PE teachers it's a matter of priorities. DES half an hour of religion a day for example.

Religion is really gonna help u get you a job when you leave school ... especially if your gonna be a priest or a nun lol :rolleyes:

Lau2976

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Religion is really gonna help u get you a job when you leave school ... especially if your gonna be a priest or a nun lol :rolleyes:

Religion teaches about world religion, tolerance, philosophy and is also the tine in which students get both cao discussions and sexual and mental health talks.

Andy From Sligo

sure in my Primary school in the UK (which would have been Juniors, and we called secondary school High School) we used to do Relay Races and basketball (boys and girls... mind u I think the girls called it netball) and Rounders and swimming in our PE lessons. And we used to have 'Sports Days' Annually in the summer where we done relay running, sack races, egg and spoon races and high jumps things like that, our parents would attend and sometimes join in with the events too - great craic ... I dunno whether schools do that in the UK any more though, maybe health and safety peeps have put a stop to it these days...

saywhatyousee

Lau2976 wrote: »

Secondary school students needed to learn to swim? We did have it in primary school though. And water aerobics and diving in secondary.

Well no your right they were not lesson like we had in primary school we were just let loose for a hour in the pool the only bad thing about it was our swimming class was first class on a Wednesday so you would have to go through the whole day stinking of chlorine

Andy From Sligo

Lau2976 wrote: »

Religion teaches about world religion, tolerance, philosophy and is also the tine in which students get both cao discussions and sexual and mental health talks.

really!? sexual and mental health talks?? in Religious Education class? - Blimey!

Toto Wolfcastle

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

sure in my Primary school in the UK (which would have been Juniors, and we called secondary school High School) we used to do Relay Races and basketball (boys and girls... mind u I think the girls called it netball) and Rounders and swimming in our PE lessons. And we used to have 'Sports Days' Annually in the summer where we done relay running, sack races, egg and spoon races and high jumps things like that, our parents would attend and sometimes join in with the events too - great craic ... I dunno whether schools do that in the UK any more though, maybe health and safety peeps have put a stop to it these days...

We did all that in my primary school too, but in Ireland. We went swimming once a week in addition to PE. Annual sports days are very common in Ireland too.

Lau2976

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

really!? sexual and mental health talks?? in Religious Education class? - Blimey!

Religion isn't the same as it was 20 years ago. Its taught by trained professionals who leave their own religion out if the class. Its not Catholicism, its everything to do with all major religions.

Also sexual health is usually given by a trained sphe teacher in religion class

saywhatyousee

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Issue isn't PE teachers it's a matter of priorities. DES half an hour of religion a day for example.

We only had 1 40 minute religon class a week attendance was never taking either and you could do your homework or sleep if you wished

LeinsterDub

saywhatyousee wrote: »

We only had 1 40 minute religon class a week attendance was never taking either and you could do your homework or sleep if you wished

What you had and what DES mandate maybe 2 different things

Andy From Sligo

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

.... 2 fully equipped gymnasiums....

we didnt have fully equipped gyms at our school but we had an assembly hall. around 9.15am every morning we had assembly where notes and anything else was read out to everyone and then prayers and then later on in the day the assembly hall would be turned into a gym of sorts there would be these climbing ropes and ladders and gym mats and hobby horses and everything laid out. And then at exam time the assembly hall would be used for that as well. At Christmas just before breaking up for the Christmas hols the Assembly hall would have a stage and a play would be put on by our drama class for the school. So yeah the Assembly hall was used/utilised quite a lot

saywhatyousee

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What you had and what DES mandate maybe 2 different things

I finished secondary school in 2006 maybe things have changed

shruikan2553

saywhatyousee wrote: »

I finished secondary school in 2006 maybe things have changed

I finished about the same time. It depended on the teacher, some were fine, how some of the others were allowed to be kept as teachers still baffles me. The Local priest would probably avoid them.

It wasnt an examined subject so they could do whatever they want.

Sunny Dayz

We had PE teachers in secondary school (late 90s/early 00s) but none in national school. We did have PE classes though, weather dependent. I asked my son (he's in fourth class) how much PE they have a week. He looked at me like I'd two heads! Says sure we go out to play at lunchtime. I says no, when ye play sports or exercise, he said when we have Gaelic once a week. It's an external trainer who comes in for that and it's only for a few months of the year. So his teachers don't bother their arse with PE.

Andy From Sligo

I think PE class is much more than just keeping fit - it teaches stamina and teamwork and competitiveness - there is most probably more good things to come out of regular PE lessons too but I think you got to start from an early age in primary school and carry it on right through secondary

Andy From Sligo

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

We had PE teachers in secondary school (late 90s/early 00s) but none in national school. We did have PE classes though, weather dependent...... .

Oh our PE classes werent weather dependant at all, out in all weathers we were! - as far as I can remember it was always pouring down when rugby or football was on and cross country running in the snow and frosty weather , i suppose it was to 'toughen' the kids up as well. Our PE teachers were swines when i think back, you couldnt say to them you didnt want to do PE unless you were at deaths door but I suppose they were right to push the kids into doing it if they didnt push us kids then we would have opted to just sit around ... and whinge . The PE teachers wer'ent the best liked teachers in our school by the pupils but i doubt if they could care less whether they were liked or not at least there wasnt so much obesity in kids in my day so maybe PE lessons were a very important asset after all!

Tarzana2

anncoates wrote: »

We had one in my school, although that was in medieval times.

Our school too. She was a bad-tempered dipso though and looked it. When she was absent, the art teacher filled in and he was far superior, actually really encouraged everyone rather than put them down, unlike Dipso "Consta-hangover" McBitchyface.

Lau2976

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Oh our PE classes werent weather dependant at all, out in all weathers we were! - as far as I can remember it was always pouring down when rugby or football was on and cross country running in the snow and frosty weather , i suppose it was to 'toughen' the kids up as well. Our PE teachers were swines when i think back, you couldnt say to them you didnt want to do PE unless you were at deaths door but I suppose they were right to push the kids into doing it if they didnt push us kids then we would have opted to just sit around ... and whinge . The PE teachers wer'ent the best liked teachers in our school by the pupils but i doubt if they could care less whether they were liked or not at least there wasnt so much obesity in kids in my day so maybe PE lessons were a very important asset after all!

Personally I still don't see the point in P.E. They should make an after school sort mandatory instead and add that time to a class that is falling. Like maths or science. That way kids have an option and it takes away the embarrassment of not being very good!

RobYourBuilder

Lau2976 wrote: »

Personally I still don't see the point in P.E. They should make an after school sort mandatory instead and add that time to a class that is falling. Like maths or science. That way kids have an option and it takes away the embarrassment of not being very good!

Then who would play in goal?

johnohanlon

My PE teachers were big GAA heads, one of them was actually an ex county player.

Lau2976

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Then who would play in goal?

The bad kids that are still being forced to do something.

LeinsterDub

heldel00 wrote: »

DES has nothing to do with religion

DES sets the curriculum

dirkmeister

Lau2976 wrote: »

Personally I still don't see the point in P.E. They should make an after school sort mandatory instead and add that time to a class that is falling. Like maths or science. That way kids have an option and it takes away the embarrassment of not being very good!

Look at all the overweight children and you'll see that there's a huge point to PE.

Obesity is a huge problem in primary school children and it has to be tackled. A lot of children go home and sit themselves in front of a console all evening.

Your argument about saving children from being embarrassed is nonsensical.
PE isn't just team sports.
Children don't need to be talented to run, which some children find hard to do for one minute in 6th class...f**king 6th class!
People are afraid to say the word "fat" when it comes to children.

Maths is being well looked after with the new literacy and numeracy strategy.

Children are only in school for 6 hours a day.
Parents also need to get active with their kids.

heldel00

LeinsterDub wrote: »

DES sets the curriculum

Religion is not part of DES curriculum guidelines. If religion was never ever taught in a primary school in Ireland the DES wouldn't give a toss.

r93kaey5p2izun

heldel00 wrote: »

Religion is not part of DES curriculum guidelines. If religion was never ever thought in a primary school in Ireland the DES wouldn't give a toss.

Really? I think 2.5 hours of religious education is required as part of the curriculum in all schools but the patron can decide whether it is faith formation or more factual information on religious beliefs. There has been some discontent with the fact we cannot have non denominational schools in Ireland.

heldel00

My point is that religion is not governed, monitored, inspected by DES. For example, if you had a whole school evaluation in your school,with inspectors analysing each subject in the school, they would not be concerned with religion at all.
Diocesan visitors will come in once a year to visit and chat but DES have no part in religion in schools.

evolving_doors

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

true that, but id like to see a documentary on TV (even if there is some undercover footage) of how many schools in Ireland participate in regular PE lessons and how good they are

Ya and a documentary on how many do music,drama,art,psychology,cooking,philosophy,martial arts,cycling,swimming, computer programming,knitting, chinese,japanese... and how goddam good they are.

Do parents take responsibility for anything these days?

The_Valeyard

heldel00 wrote: »

My point is that religion is not governed, monitored, inspected by DES. For example, if you had a whole school evaluation in your school,with inspectors analysing each subject in the school, they would not be concerned with religion at all.
Diocesan visitors will come in once a year to visit and chat but DES have no part in religion in schools.

This is false. I remember as a student our school got a whole school inspection and yes, we had inspector in our religion class. In 3rd year we also had an inspector sit at the back of the room. He also asked us questions on the topic of Islam which we were studying at the time.

evolving_doors

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This is false. I remember as a student our school got a whole school inspection and yes, we had inspector in our religion class. In 3rd year we also had an inspector sit at the back of the room. He also asked us questions on the topic of Islam which we were studying at the time.

primary or secondary?
An inspector might be observing teaching methods too.

heldel00

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This is false. I remember as a student our school got a whole school inspection and yes, we had inspector in our religion class. In 3rd year we also had an inspector sit at the back of the room. He also asked us questions on the topic of Islam which we were studying at the time.

Not in primary school.

Meangadh

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Government cut backs has meant that teachers who are not registered for PE are teaching it in a lot of places.

Hardly "a lot". Maybe there are a very small few exceptions, but the Teaching Council will ensure that unless teachers are qualified in the subject they teach, they won't get paid.

It's about the only real point to the Teaching Council as far as I can see, but that's one of the things they do. So therefore to be paid to teach PE, you must be qualified in PE. As I said, maybe there are exceptions, but cutbacks have absolutely nothing to do with that.

PE is really important, and should absolutely be part of the curriculum- besides getting exercise, students learn teamwork, hand/eye co-ordination and a range of other skills.

BUT- PE teachers can only do so much, and throwing the blame on schools for obesity or saying that more time is needed for PE in schools which already have an over-packed curriculum (even excluding the religion argument) is avoiding the real issues, namely:

• The $hit that kids are given to eat by their parents going to school or the $hit that they buy in the shop with the money that their parents give them because they're too bloody lazy to buy a sliced pan, fruit and a pack of yogurts or whatever to make lunch
• The amount of time kids spend in front of a screen, be it a tv, a computer, a tablet or a phone
• The lack of encouragement of parents to get their kids involved in something. And before people chime in with the cost of hobbies or the time needed to bring them places- firstly, it costs nothing to go for a run. Secondly, if you get your kids involved in a GAA, rugby or soccer club (amongst so many others), there will be plenty of people who car pool. It is always workable.
• Blaming everybody else but yourself. There are literally HUNDREDS of options for kids to be involved in things to give them exercise. NO student should be depending on PE alone for physical activity. Schools can only do so much.

I know I'm sensitive to this kind of thing because I'm a teacher, but I am so bloody sick of schools being either blamed for society's problems or else being asked to fix the problems. Do these kids not have any guidance from home? There are hundreds of thousands of amazing parents on the road today since early this morning going to clubs and halls all over the country getting their kids involved in things. They are probably even training and coaching a lot of the teams themselves. I know it's a big commitment, but it's your duty as a parent to do these things- and not to depend on schools alone to do it. So yes, there are dedicated PE teachers- but they need to work alongside dedicated parents.

The_Valeyard

Armelodie wrote: »

primary or secondary?
An inspector might be observing teaching methods too.

heldel00 wrote: »

Not in primary school.

Secondary. Teaching methods would also include whether you are sticking to the syllabus, etc.

Mardy Bum

Meangadh wrote: »

Hardly "a lot". Maybe there are a very small few exceptions, but the Teaching Council will ensure that unless teachers are qualified in the subject they teach, they won't get paid.

It's about the only real point to the Teaching Council as far as I can see, but that's one of the things they do. So therefore to be paid to teach PE, you must be qualified in PE. As I said, maybe there are exceptions, but cutbacks have absolutely nothing to do with that.

PE teachers are seen as expendable for the most part in secondary schools unless they are permanent. When hours need to be filled on timetables PE is viewed like CSPE and SPHE and they are given to the teacher who has not reached 22. The TC cannot stop someone from getting paid once they are registered regardless of the whether they are qualified for that specific subject. Some etbs will pay the unqualified rate but there are only 1 or 2 that do this.

r93kaey5p2izun

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Secondary. Teaching methods would also include whether you are sticking to the syllabus, etc.

They can of course inspect exam subject religion classes at second level - it's just like any other subject. Traditionally only the patron (diocesan advisor if catholic) inspects faith formation classes though. This arrangement appears to be stuck to at primary level. But as Armelodie says, at second level they have been inspecting non-exam religion classes under the guise of looking solely at the teaching methodologies. We have had such classes inspected several times now. There was some surprise at first but it seems quite common now.

r93kaey5p2izun

Mardy Bum wrote: »

PE teachers are seen as expendable for the most part in secondary schools unless they are permanent. When hours need to be filled on timetables PE is viewed like CSPE and SPHE and they are given to the teacher who has not reached 22. The TC cannot stop someone from getting paid once they are registered regardless of the whether they are qualified for that specific subject. Some etbs will pay the unqualified rate but there are only 1 or 2 that do this.

I agree with you that teachers not qualified in the subject can still be paid to teach it under TC regulations. Meangadh is definitely wrong on that. Personally I have found that it's one of the subjects least likely to given to just anyone though, because of insurance concerns regarding injuries - same with other practical subjects.

evolving_doors

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Secondary. Teaching methods would also include whether you are sticking to the syllabus, etc.

Aye, thread is about primary though!

Magnate

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

our P.E. Teacher(s) as I were growing up just taught P.E. and nothing else - like-wise our English Teacher or Maths teacher did not teach P.E. and Likewase our P.E. teacher didnt teach English or Maths in another class!

Did your English teacher teach English?

Meangadh

Lailah Thundering Raspberry wrote: »

I agree with you that teachers not qualified in the subject can still be paid to teach it under TC regulations. Meangadh is definitely wrong on that. Personally I have found that it's one of the subjects least likely to given to just anyone though, because of insurance concerns regarding injuries - same with other practical subjects.

I didn't say it didn't happen- I said that the majority of teachers teaching PE are qualified. There are exceptions but in my experience the teachers of PE in either schools I've taught in or schools of friends were qualified. The other poster implied it happened "a lot". I really don't think it does.

The_Valeyard

Armelodie wrote: »

Aye, thread is about primary though!

I believe it's about PE

r93kaey5p2izun

Meangadh wrote: »

I didn't say it didn't happen- I said that the majority of teachers teaching PE are qualified. There are exceptions but in my experience the teachers of PE in either schools I've taught in or schools of friends were qualified. The other poster implied it happened "a lot". I really don't think it does.

My post was in reference to your saying TC regulation meant teachers had to be qualified in the subject they teach in order to be paid. That's just not the case. In my experience every school I'm familiar with has teachers teaching outside their subject area. As I said though I have found it's much more common in non-practical subjects and have never come across it in PE.

Meangadh

Lailah Thundering Raspberry wrote: »

My post was in reference to your saying TC regulation meant teachers had to be qualified in the subject they teach in order to be paid. That's just not the case. In my experience every school I'm familiar with has teachers teaching outside their subject area. As I said though I have found it's much more common in non-practical subjects and have never come across it in PE.

Oh right, fair enough. Yeah definitely I do know of teachers doing subjects they're not qualified in due to various different reasons- but they're few and far between in my experience, especially since the Teaching Council came about. Although I'm not even sure if that's cos of the TC, or because the competition for jobs nowadays is so fierce that very few unqualified teachers are filling jobs.

But back to the topic here of PE- I wonder what is it about some kids that make them dislike it? Or try to avoid it? We have 3 PE teachers (fully qualified) in my school and they do really varied stuff over the year with the classes- I would love it myself, even more so as a student. But yet there are students that constantly try to get out of doing it or at the very least do the bare minimum. What can be done about those kids?

rainbowtrout

Meangadh wrote: »

Oh right, fair enough. Yeah definitely I do know of teachers doing subjects they're not qualified in due to various different reasons- but they're few and far between in my experience, especially since the Teaching Council came about. Although I'm not even sure if that's cos of the TC, or because the competition for jobs nowadays is so fierce that very few unqualified teachers are filling jobs.

But back to the topic here of PE- I wonder what is it about some kids that make them dislike it? Or try to avoid it? We have 3 PE teachers (fully qualified) in my school and they do really varied stuff over the year with the classes- I would love it myself, even more so as a student. But yet there are students that constantly try to get out of doing it or at the very least do the bare minimum. What can be done about those kids?

There are kids who dislike Irish or maths or science or whatever and no one bats an eyelid when they say they hate those subjects. It's socially acceptable not to like maths etc. I fully support having PE lessons in school and think it's good for kids but I don't think it's unusual for some kids not to like sports.

Andy From Sligo

Meangadh wrote: »

.... But back to the topic here of PE- I wonder what is it about some kids that make them dislike it? Or try to avoid it? We have 3 PE teachers (fully qualified) in my school and they do really varied stuff over the year with the classes- I would love it myself, even more so as a student. But yet there are students that constantly try to get out of doing it or at the very least do the bare minimum. What can be done about those kids?

well speaking of my own experience when I started high school in the UK our very first lesson the PE teachers sat us down on the benches in the training room and said "right you lot - who dont like PE?" a couple of us put our hands up including me - "well you will like it when we have finished with you!" was the reply , sure it was a bit of bullying going on, i think even one lad was nearly reduced to tears by them but they werent gonna let anyone get off with it - as I said if you wanted to get out of PE you had to be nearly dying, as long as there was breath in you they made you do it, whether you was rubbish at it or whinged ... you done it or else! - but you know some kids need that push otherwise they would just whinge and say "I dont wanna do it sir" or "I cant do it sir!" - alas in this day and age I bet the teachers cant be that forceful any more cause it might upset little tommy or little tommy will go back home and the parents would end up suing the school or teachers for harrasment - diddums! :rolleyes:

evolving_doors

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I believe it's about PE

Its about PE in primary schools following on from the operation transformation show last week.

Read the OP again.

r93kaey5p2izun

I support compulsory PE and think it's awful that schools are so underfunded in terms of facilities. The PE teachers I work with are all qualified and work hard to provide the full curriculum and plenty of variety with limited resources. I would love to see PE as an optional exam subject also. I do agree that parents need to take more responsibility though and that schools cannot be asked to solve all of society's ills.

I hated PE in school. Our PE teachers were qualified, we had decent facilities and did a variety of activities. The only thing that would have made it slightly more tolerable was being able to go straight home after, not back to another class. But I doubt I would ever have enjoyed it. That's just the way I am. My family are very sporty and encouraged healthy eating and lifestyle. I went to dance classes that I loved. But I avoided PE at all costs and forged many notes to get out of it. I don't think there are any easy answers.

The_Valeyard

Armelodie wrote: »

Its about PE in primary schools following on from the operation transformation show last week.

Read the OP again.

I did. It says PRIMARY AND SECONDARY.

Take your own advice. Read the OP again.

evolving_doors

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I did. It says PRIMARY AND SECONDARY.

Take your own advice. Read the OP again.

Thats because the OP is correct in that they didn't hear it correctly. The statement from operation transformation was only referring to primary schools.
Hence discussing secondary is moot.