How dangerous is cycling (in London)?

alcyst

Answer would appear to be a mix of; "it's not straightforward" and "not as much as you think".

http://www.cityam.com/208156/every-cycling-accident-in-london-mapped-where-are-the-most-dangerous-places-to-ride-a-bike-and-how-many-accidents-are-there-each-year

Mucco

Thanks for the link, nice maps, but unfortunately the article headline is the usual sensationalist stuff:
"How London's streets became a death trap for cyclists: Every bicycle accident mapped"

StereoSound

No worse or better then Dublin I'd imagine.

qb123

I would think Dublin is much safer than London:
- wider streets/traffic lanes
- fewer major (very large) roundabouts and intersections
- more cycle friendly policies
- less aggression (from both cyclists and motorists)

Lumen

I used to commute by moped in London until the PTSD became too much.

galwaycyclist

qb123 wrote: »

I would think Dublin is much safer than London:
- wider streets/traffic lanes
- fewer major (very large) roundabouts and intersections
- more cycle friendly policies
- less aggression (from both cyclists and motorists)

Also much less 5-axle HGVs on key routes with the Port Tunnel in place. If Dublin could bring in an effective 4-axle HGV ban, fix the one-way streets and get some speed cameras in you would be sorted.

Wishbone Ash

I find London fine to cycle in. The only difference is that the streets seem more slippery than Dublin and there appears to be much more manhole covers. (That being said, it's always been wet when I've cycled there).

alcyst

Mucco wrote: »

Thanks for the link, nice maps, but unfortunately the article headline is the usual sensationalist stuff:
"How London's streets became a death trap for cyclists: Every bicycle accident mapped"

It's normal in newspapers that the title is by one person and the article by another. I read the article as saying cycling was generally safe; cycle every day for 62 years per accident!

Would agree Dublin is likely to be v similar, London streets seem wider & traffic a bit faster. Remember reading somewhere that the Netherlands had most cycling deaths, anybody know if that is true?

Lemming

TBH, I'd imagine London to be no worse for cycling as it is for driving; i.e. it's an absolute ball-ache that I avoid if at all possible simply owing to the fact that the population being roughly ten million = more traffic = higher probability of meeting muppets be they of the motorised or non-motorised variety.

rainbow kirby

6km to work, bumper to bumper traffic, lots of very aggressive drivers, a roundabout just before work that's a bit hairy at the best of times with people making sudden moves to avoid going down congestion charge roads... I'd rather run or get the tube to work tbh.

Xenji

A friend of mine got knocked off his bike 3 times in his first year in London, although I always found cyclists more of a danger in London than drivers, due to them being hard to see in residential areas.

ashleey

It's fine. Stay off the main routes like the Euston Road and don't go up the inside of buses or lorries. Don't go near tipper trucks. Several cyclists killed by drivers of tipper trucks working on cross rail.

JBokeh

Was there with work last year,visiting an office pretty much in the heart of the city,we rented a car for some reason. The first day driving in it was about 10am so the worst of the traffic had gone away,but it was still scary as hell,It isn't like here where you would only have a handful of cyclists at a set of lights,there was 10s of them filtering up past on either side of the car. Spent more time looking in my mirrors than out the windscreen i'd bet. I must say it takes serious stones to be driving there everyday,especially in something like a van

We did some corporate schmoozing where we got a guided tour of all the tourist stuff right in the city,on Boris bikes,them things weigh more than a motorbike. That was scarier than the driving,you get engulfed by other lads on bikes,who are inches away from you. A chap with us was wobbling a bit because he hadn't been on a bike in 20 years,got a bolocking from a guy that passed him on a bike for getting a wobble on a corner,yer man had a go pro on his head,which was probably making him angry. The cars weren't bad at all,but we didn't go anywhere where they were making real speed either,it was all stop start,and mainly taxis.

Not an awful experience on either mode of transport, and no run ins with anyone bar that one bloke,but I wouldn't be in a hurry to do it again.

Subpopulus

London is quite different from Dublin. London has much larger roads, some very large multi-lane junctions (think Elephant and Castle), and a lot more traffic. Think the Quays in Dublin, only twice as large, and much faster. The aggression from all road transport users is quite plain to see, cars accelerate away from traffic lights very fast, and to keep up with or stay ahead of them at the lights cyclists sprint away at the first sight of green. In the morning and evening you see gangs of 10 or 20 cyclists at the traffic lights, hustling for the best spots to jump ahead when the lights change. Cycling is almost purely for commuters - you see very little cycling happening during the rest of the day.

Cycling looks a lot more casual in Dublin. A thing that struck me in london was the large number of Brompton users, rushing to get to the train stations to commute home to Kent or Essex or further afield. They're covered in high vis, have a helmet with a little wing mirror, and usually have two fully laden panniers and are and pedalling madly. You've never seen Bromptons move so fast. In general most of the commuter cyclists look like this - not so many women on upright bikes or other, more easy-going cyclists.

London has a lot more construction traffic in the central areas - imagine how many lorryloads of material it took to build the Shard, tens of thousands of journeys I'd imagine. I think one of the main reasons that cycling has taken off here is because construction levels fell to nothing after 2007, and the roads were a lot less intimidating without gravel and concrete lorrys. The infrastructure is poorer in London too. The stuff in Dublin is nothing to boast about either but I've seen some really bizarre bits of infrastructure in London. I've actually started laughing on the street at times when I see something really strange. There's a bi-directional cycle track on Tavistock place that's well-used. But there's one really mental section where the lanes are swopped from one side to the other, like on a Scalextric track - you can see it here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.525948,-0.124358,3a,75y,291.97h,63.47t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sl3EoJV7aRpc5aEf7G-WvHQ!2e0

It's very strange watching the morning rush hour and ten or twenty cyclists thread themselves through the oncoming line of cyclists. A lot of the infrastructure is almost completely useless. There's a thing you often see where to allow cyclists to use a pedestrian crossing, they drop the kerb about 2m back from the lights, to let the cyclist onto the footpath, and they paint about 1m of cycle lane on the pavement. You can see it here, just behind a bin, a pole, and a newspaper stand.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.498166,-0.063694,3a,75y,183.85h,60.93t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWqY8EyOR9aJY5-JviqYTyA!2e0

The intention behind these things I can understand, but they're incredible bodges. And those examples aren't that dangerous - check out this webpage for an example of where shoddy infrastructure caused someones death. Lanes are often narrower in London, making filtering difficult. You see a lot of white bikes around the place as grisly reminders of fatal accidents. I don't know how the statistics play out exactly. In 2013, I think 1 person died in Dublin City, and cycling has a modal share of about 8/9%. In London it was about 13 people for a modal share of less than 2%. I don't know what population that's based on so those figures are a bit meaningless. Even though the actual number of fatalities is rising in London, it's rising far less than the rise in cycling rates, so statistically it's probably getting slightly safer there. Interestingly, the more people cycle in Dublin, the less the actual numbers of cyclist deaths. 10 people people died cycling in Dublin in 1997, now down to one or two a year now, even though cyclist numbers are 5 times greater. So that would suggest that London is actually a lot more dangerous than Dublin.

Naturally these are all generalisations based on my hardly exhaustive experience of London cycling. What I will say is that if you're young, fast and are used to lots of traffic and have really sharp eyesight and fast reflexes and have no fear and are lit up like a christmas tree then you'll be fine. Yes, it's stressful, but the chances of dying are low. 150,000 people cycle to work in London every day, and only 13 people die over the course of the year. Although how that compares to the tube I don't know.

ashleey

That Tavistock place switch over if it has rained is lethal. I've seen several falls and near head on crashes as each cycle track is about 250cm wide and it's like an American freeway where everyone sits at 70mph on cruise control and you can't slow down to exit without causing a pile up, so you just turn off at whatever speed the lane is moving, and cross your fingers.

I only cycle in London once a month but I've never had a problem from drivers or cyclists, but you do need good awareness. Don't get angry either.

Wishbone Ash

Subpopulus wrote: »

......You've never seen Bromptons move so fast....

Except at the Brompton World Championships!

Hunterbiker

London has Traffic Droid....

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=traffic%20droid&sm=1

...You have been warned!

colm_gti

I lived in London for the best part if 2 years and cycled every day. My first year was commuting into town and my second year was commuting south into Surrey.

I actually felt safer than cycling in Dublin to be honest, motorists generally gave me more space

alcyst

This gets post-of-the-year from me

Civilian_Target

Yeah, having lived in both Dublin and London, Dublin's not great but London is worse.

As others have mentioned, narrower lanes, more aggressive drivers (and cyclists), larger roads (and roundabouts) and heavier traffic make the difference. That said, many people do it, and I'd still prefer it to the Piccadilly Line at rush hour any day!