Is it worth farming anymore?

doctorjan

Hi all,

I'm a part time farmer and always kind of knew I was funding my small farm holding out of my spare cash. (22 acres / 10-15 animals each year) I've been very careful keeping receipts this last year and realised I'm probably losing about €2k per year when everything is calculated out. I know its a hobby but I really was surprised. I always thought I was at least breaking even. Anyone any similar experiences?
Anyone have any ideas how to turn it around and make it profitable?
I've tried to cut back a bit on expenditure but so many things are unavoidable like vets fees, diesel etc.

Farmer Pudsey

doctorjan wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm a part time farmer and always kind of knew I was funding my small farm holding out of my spare cash. (22 acres / 10-15 animals each year) I've been very careful keeping receipts this last year and realised I'm probably losing about €2k per year when everything is calculated out. I know its a hobby but I really was surprised. I always thought I was at least breaking even. Anyone any similar experiences?
Anyone have any ideas how to turn it around and make it profitable?
I've tried to cut back a bit on expenditure but so many things are unavoidable like vets fees, diesel etc.

What kind of cattle do you keep, at what price do you buy them and what price and weight do you sell them. What is your land type.

AP2014

doctorjan wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm a part time farmer and always kind of knew I was funding my small farm holding out of my spare cash. (22 acres / 10-15 animals each year) I've been very careful keeping receipts this last year and realised I'm probably losing about €2k per year when everything is calculated out. I know its a hobby but I really was surprised. I always thought I was at least breaking even. Anyone any similar experiences?
Anyone have any ideas how to turn it around and make it profitable?
I've tried to cut back a bit on expenditure but so many things are unavoidable like vets fees, diesel etc.

Hi, I run a similar system and am doing ok. Do you have sfp/das? What age and price do you usually buy at and when do you sell?

We all have vet fees but what are your big expenses?

doctorjan

Hi,
thanks for the interest.
SFP comes in around €3800 p.a
I keeps cows, house them in the winter, calve down in spring sell calves as weanlings in Autumn.
I usually get around €400 per calf (Lm or AAX).
Out of ten or so per year on average i keep two replacements.

that works out at Grants (3800) + Sales (3200) = 7000

I know the obvious answer is to change breed but with a full time job with a decent commute away from home I cant risk animals that have problems calving, I tried it one year and with two caesarean sections it was too much hassle.

Main expenses include
spreading slurry €400 p.a
fetiliizer €1000 p.a.
silage €1500 pa.
A small tractor loan €1000 p.a.
(I use a contractor, as i cant afford or justify buying the machinery)
Vet fees €200 p.a.
Fencing small repairs €800 pa.
Diesel and servicing machines €800 p.a.
Misc €1000
(eg a tractor tyre ripped last spring €650 for a new one!!)
Total Expenses: €6700

7000-6700 = €300 profit for working 52 weeks = €5.76 a week

Land type is average.

All suggestions welcome,
I've looked at organic farming but I'm unsure about sourcing a market, It seems easy to say "everyone wants organic food nowadays" but I'm unsure it would be that easy to get started without a lot of marketing and research.

AP2014

doctorjan wrote: »

Hi,
thanks for the interest.
SFP comes in around €3800 p.a
I keeps cows, house them in the winter, calve down in spring sell calves as weanlings in Autumn.
I usually get around €400 per calf (Lm or AAX).
Out of ten or so per year on average i keep two replacements.

that works out at Grants (3800) + Sales (3200) = 7000

I know the obvious answer is to change breed but with a full time job with a decent commute away from home I cant risk animals that have problems calving, I tried it one year and with two caesarean sections it was too much hassle.

Main expenses include
spreading slurry €400 p.a
fetiliizer €1000 p.a.
silage €1500 pa.
A small tractor loan €1000 p.a.
(I use a contractor, as i cant afford or justify buying the machinery)
Vet fees €200 p.a.
Fencing small repairs €800 pa.
Diesel and servicing machines €800 p.a.
Misc €1000
(eg a tractor tyre ripped last spring €650 for a new one!!)
Total Expenses: €6700

7000-6700 = €300 profit for working 52 weeks = €5.76 a week

Land type is average.

All suggestions welcome,
I've looked at organic farming but I'm unsure about sourcing a market, It seems easy to say "everyone wants organic food nowadays" but I'm unsure it would be that easy to get started without a lot of marketing and research.

Change your system straight away. if you have a full time job and only 22 acres why would you keep cows? Guaranteed nearly to lose money and why would you bring that work load on yourself.

Would you consider buying weanlings/yearlings in Feb/mar sell in November. Doing it the last few years and making 200/300 a head each year. Can see the system working until 2020 when grants stop.

If you don't winter you save 1500 silage bill. You could actually bale a few acres and sell of field at 12 to 14 euro a bale. No expense for you only fert. I don't have a tractor, get contractor to spread fert it is more cost effective. I think your farm is too small for a tractor. Of course it would be handy and convenient but then you are hobby farming and not for profit.

€800 a year fencing? What the hell are you fencing? Buy a battery fencer, roll of wire and some plastic stakes. Never mind the jones next door with 4 rows barbed wire and stakes every 2 yards. REPs paid for that not farm profit.

My main expense is fert, vet and some pouron. I have 30 acres and making 12 to 16k the last few years. I have a high sfp/das but no reason you shouldn't be making 7/8k a year.

I work 2/3 hrs a week max on the farm probably less. Dec/Jan off and some nov/feb. Full time job off farm. Buy hungry continentals 750 to 850 in feb march and sell in Nov anything from 1000 to max 1200 in the good days.

It can be done but you have to realise the size of the farm you have and whether you are farming for profit or a hobby.

Farmer Pudsey

doctorjan wrote: »

Hi,
thanks for the interest.
SFP comes in around €3800 p.a
I keeps cows, house them in the winter, calve down in spring sell calves as weanlings in Autumn.
I usually get around €400 per calf (Lm or AAX).
Out of ten or so per year on average i keep two replacements.

that works out at Grants (3800) + Sales (3200) = 7000

I know the obvious answer is to change breed but with a full time job with a decent commute away from home I cant risk animals that have problems calving, I tried it one year and with two caesarean sections it was too much hassle.

Main expenses include
spreading slurry €400 p.a
fetiliizer €1000 p.a.
silage €1500 pa.
A small tractor loan €1000 p.a.
(I use a contractor, as i cant afford or justify buying the machinery)
Vet fees €200 p.a.
Fencing small repairs €800 pa.
Diesel and servicing machines €800 p.a.
Misc €1000
(eg a tractor tyre ripped last spring €650 for a new one!!)
Total Expenses: €6700

7000-6700 = €300 profit for working 52 weeks = €5.76 a week

Land type is average.

All suggestions welcome,
I've looked at organic farming but I'm unsure about sourcing a market, It seems easy to say "everyone wants organic food nowadays" but I'm unsure it would be that easy to get started without a lot of marketing and research.

I would get rid of the cows. Hard to make money out of cows even with big numbers to spread costs and selling AA calves is a loss. You can go then to a calf/weanling to store or store to finish. sheep is another option 22 acres would keep 60-80 ewes housing is easy enough to adapt.

ganmo

Lambing a flock of sheep takes all your time for a short period, lots of lads sponge them and take their holidays and do it that way. Getting into sheep is a steep learning curve and they'll wreck your head at the best of times.
But I think yourself and AP should have a good chat because he seems to have his system down to a tee

AP2014

ganmo wrote: »

Lambing a flock of sheep takes all your time for a short period, lots of lads sponge them and take their holidays and do it that way. Getting into sheep is a steep learning curve and they'll wreck your head at the best of times.
But I think yourself and AP should have a good chat because he seems to have his system down to a tee

It depends on your job and time spent on the farm. I think it must be a serious struggle to lamb or calve cows unless self employed. I don't know much about sheep only they seem more work than cattle. Bejesus I don't think my fences are up to them

blue5000

OP I agree with the lads above, you need to change something. Sales at 400 per calf is very low, could you keep them over the winter and add more value to them? I think with angus cattle you really need to be finishing them to make the most out of them. Your fert and silage bills seem high too, 2500 for sales of 3200 doesn't leave a lot to cover other costs.

diesel druggie

Stay as you are will you not get back your taxes from your paye job if you have a loss to offset it by

_Brian

diesel druggie wrote: »

Stay as you are will you not get back your taxes from your paye job if you have a loss to offset it by

This is one of the biggest and most common misconceptions out there and often used as a stick to beat part time farmers..

You will get back a loss at your rate of tax, so if OP is on marginal tax rate he gets about €200 back for every €1000.. So its still an €800 loss which is hard to swallow !!

Its still better to make a profit than claw back part of a loss from your income tax !!





OP: €400 sounds small for spring born animals, like others have said the AA breeding is probably going against you and you'd need to winter them again to grow some value into them, but then this has a serious cost associated..

One thing you could do is de-stock a bit, at a lower stocking rate it would reduce a few of the bills a bit.

We got out of sucklers back in 2009 after doing some accurate accounting we were making a loss, we tried overwintering as has been suggested but the additional winter cost wasn't adding enough value to make it worthwhile. Breeding was against us with maybe 70% of the cows being AAx.

If you take a fairly standard cost of €650 to keep a cow for the year, this is the cost of producing your weanling, plus a bit more but its a good guideline. So even lads selling weanlings for €750-800 in the mart are just making a profit.. but its a profit and many then have the SFP to keep.


Maybe you should be out in the mart in the autumn looking for calves like your selling yourself.. At €400 they are well below the cost of production and should make a good growth over the next 12 months. The downside of this is constantly buying in stock !!

Capercaille

If you are in a correct location you might be able to avail of some of the GLAS schemes.

doctorjan

Thanks for the advice,

I do agree that a change your system is probably the only option.

Thanks Capercaille, I will look into GLAS.

As _Brian said an accounting loss is hard to swallow, that's what brought me here.
At least his similar experience in 2009 with a cost of €650 to keep a cow for the year is in line with what i was coming up with.

I do accept what AP2014 was saying too, overheads are too high and fencing had gotten away from me. This year should bring that to an end.
My fencing expenses included a neighbour with sheep he refused to fence off along a 300m boundary and when I inherited the place my father had been a battery fence man for 20 years; I just found it easier to split the place into paddocks and fence the boundary properly. I know this was more expense but still makes life easier on the wet days when the vet is due and i hafta get them in either before or after work.
(I'll never understand how animals pick up on when you're anxious to get them in and just decide to run all over the place)

For me sheep are not an option with full time job
sheep take up a serious amount of time as far as i can see.

I think this year either I will try the buy in spring, sell in autumn system
or close off a chunk of it and sell silage/ hay over two cuts
or just rent it out?

any thoughts on these ideas? Land is in midlands - anyone have any idea on rental value / pitfalls? I'm thinking I'd have to ask for money up front?

Capercaille

doctorjan wrote: »

Thanks for the advice,

I do agree that a change your system is probably the only option.

Thanks Capercaille, I will look into GLAS.

As _Brian said an accounting loss is hard to swallow, that's what brought me here.
At least his similar experience in 2009 with a cost of €650 to keep a cow for the year is in line with what i was coming up with.

I do accept what AP2014 was saying too, overheads are too high and fencing had gotten away from me. This year should bring that to an end.
My fencing expenses included a neighbour with sheep he refused to fence off along a 300m boundary and when I inherited the place my father had been a battery fence man for 20 years; I just found it easier to split the place into paddocks and fence the boundary properly. I know this was more expense but still makes life easier on the wet days when the vet is due and i hafta get them in either before or after work.
(I'll never understand how animals pick up on when you're anxious to get them in and just decide to run all over the place)

For me sheep are not an option with full time job
sheep take up a serious amount of time as far as i can see.

I think this year either I will try the buy in spring, sell in autumn system
or close off a chunk of it and sell silage/ hay over two cuts
or just rent it out?

any thoughts on these ideas? Land is in midlands - anyone have any idea on rental value / pitfalls? I'm thinking I'd have to ask for money up front?

I leased my land out before (25 acres). The tenant made ****e of the place. Overgrazed and fences damaged and not repaired. Hard to get somebody trustworthy. Not worth the hassle. Unless you can trust somebody 100% I would not do it.

Username John

doctorjan wrote: »

Thanks for the advice,

I do agree that a change your system is probably the only option.

Thanks Capercaille, I will look into GLAS.

As _Brian said an accounting loss is hard to swallow, that's what brought me here.
At least his similar experience in 2009 with a cost of €650 to keep a cow for the year is in line with what i was coming up with.

I do accept what AP2014 was saying too, overheads are too high and fencing had gotten away from me. This year should bring that to an end.
My fencing expenses included a neighbour with sheep he refused to fence off along a 300m boundary and when I inherited the place my father had been a battery fence man for 20 years; I just found it easier to split the place into paddocks and fence the boundary properly. I know this was more expense but still makes life easier on the wet days when the vet is due and i hafta get them in either before or after work.
(I'll never understand how animals pick up on when you're anxious to get them in and just decide to run all over the place)

For me sheep are not an option with full time job
sheep take up a serious amount of time as far as i can see.

I think this year either I will try the buy in spring, sell in autumn system
or close off a chunk of it and sell silage/ hay over two cuts
or just rent it out?

any thoughts on these ideas? Land is in midlands - anyone have any idea on rental value / pitfalls? I'm thinking I'd have to ask for money up front?

I have a few ewes and work off farm - take two weeks off work for lambing, few hours then every Saturday...
The thing with sheep is you have to like working with sheep to keep em, otherwise they are total hardship...

Letting land is tax free now - and when yer working off farm, I dunno would any other farming enterprise pay as well? Hard to know what rent would be in your area - is there a lot of dairy? Maybe 200 / acre (if the land is good)

Best of luck anyways, whatever you do.

Username John

Capercaille wrote: »

I leased my land out before (25 acres). The tenant made ****e of the place. Overgrazed and fences damaged and not repaired. Hard to get somebody trustworthy. Not worth the hassle. Unless you can trust somebody 100% I would not do it.

Place at home has been let for years. Most of it reseeded. All fences were done before the lad let an animal out on it. All ditches cleared.

There are good and bad out there - same as in everything...

pluto2

16K clear profit from 30 acres with that kind of cattle farming. well done, good on you.....

AP2014 wrote: »

Change your system straight away. if you have a full time job and only 22 acres why would you keep cows? Guaranteed nearly to lose money and why would you bring that work load on yourself.

Would you consider buying weanlings/yearlings in Feb/mar sell in November. Doing it the last few years and making 200/300 a head each year. Can see the system working until 2020 when grants stop.

If you don't winter you save 1500 silage bill. You could actually bale a few acres and sell of field at 12 to 14 euro a bale. No expense for you only fert. I don't have a tractor, get contractor to spread fert it is more cost effective. I think your farm is too small for a tractor. Of course it would be handy and convenient but then you are hobby farming and not for profit.

€800 a year fencing? What the hell are you fencing? Buy a battery fencer, roll of wire and some plastic stakes. Never mind the jones next door with 4 rows barbed wire and stakes every 2 yards. REPs paid for that not farm profit.

My main expense is fert, vet and some pouron. I have 30 acres and making 12 to 16k the last few years. I have a high sfp/das but no reason you shouldn't be making 7/8k a year.

I work 2/3 hrs a week max on the farm probably less. Dec/Jan off and some nov/feb. Full time job off farm. Buy hungry continentals 750 to 850 in feb march and sell in Nov anything from 1000 to max 1200 in the good days.

It can be done but you have to realise the size of the farm you have and whether you are farming for profit or a hobby.

Nekarsulm

Or you could rent it out to someone reliable. (have a look at their home place, if you can. If it's like a bomb struck it, they will hardly mind your place any better) and bank the rent.

You can always do a bit of fencing, ditching, topping, whatever, at the weekends, to get the cravings out of your system.............

serfspup

could try contract feeding dairy heifers ,or summer silage for sale and winter grazing sheep,short rotation coppice and heat your house etc etc while still retaining sfp and tax deductable expenses....loads of options

P_Cash

AP2014 wrote: »

Change your system straight away. if you have a full time job and only 22 acres why would you keep cows? Guaranteed nearly to lose money and why would you bring that work load on yourself.

Would you consider buying weanlings/yearlings in Feb/mar sell in November. Doing it the last few years and making 200/300 a head each year. Can see the system working until 2020 when grants stop.

If you don't winter you save 1500 silage bill. You could actually bale a few acres and sell of field at 12 to 14 euro a bale. No expense for you only fert. I don't have a tractor, get contractor to spread fert it is more cost effective. I think your farm is too small for a tractor. Of course it would be handy and convenient but then you are hobby farming and not for profit.

€800 a year fencing? What the hell are you fencing? Buy a battery fencer, roll of wire and some plastic stakes. Never mind the jones next door with 4 rows barbed wire and stakes every 2 yards. REPs paid for that not farm profit.

My main expense is fert, vet and some pouron. I have 30 acres and making 12 to 16k the last few years. I have a high sfp/das but no reason you shouldn't be making 7/8k a year.

I work 2/3 hrs a week max on the farm probably less. Dec/Jan off and some nov/feb. Full time job off farm. Buy hungry continentals 750 to 850 in feb march and sell in Nov anything from 1000 to max 1200 in the good days.

It can be done but you have to realise the size of the farm you have and whether you are farming for profit or a hobby.

Yearlings for 750/850?

I'm struggling to stock this year for under 1,100 a head

That's chx lmx 10/12 months avg 350 kgs.

Willfarman

P_Cash wrote: »

Yearlings for 750/850?

I'm struggling to stock this year for under 1,100 a head

That's chx lmx 10/12 months avg 350 kgs.

sit on your hands. Your money will be run out a lot quicker than the cattle will. April showers fill the dyke.

AP2014

P_Cash wrote: »

Yearlings for 750/850?

I'm struggling to stock this year for under 1,100 a head

That's chx lmx 10/12 months avg 350 kgs.

I have 10 in for €800, chx, lim and six. Not great quality but some very decent ones only about 260kg - 300kg though. That covers me for my payments if I hold 7 months.

Last years averaged over €1100 but they were better quality I think. You seem to be buying heavier U grade cattle, you will pay for them and might want to say your prayers that things hold until oct/nov. That's a long time in farming.

As willfarman said take your time, the madness will end mid April I think anyway. Not sure what stock you are buying at €1100 ahead and what your hoping they will be worth in Nov/Dec? Or are you finishing them?

P_Cash

AP2014 wrote: »

I have 10 in for €800, chx, lim and six. Not great quality but some very decent ones only about 260kg - 300kg though. That covers me for my payments if I hold 7 months.

Last years averaged over €1100 but they were better quality I think. You seem to be buying heavier U grade cattle, you will pay for them and might want to say your prayers that things hold until oct/nov. That's a long time in farming.

As willfarman said take your time, the madness will end mid April I think anyway. Not sure what stock you are buying at €1100 ahead and what your hoping they will be worth in Nov/Dec? Or are you finishing them?

Not finishing them, stuck with 30 acres, 1 dry shed and that's it. No wintering facilities.
Buying 10 animals to hold for 7 months is getting tougher and tougher.

I started buying end of feb. But wasn't able to go to the mart since then, until yesterday. Even back in feb, i scraped the bottom of the barrel coming home with 3 avg 880, and there is even a FR in it.

MY mart has plenty of bullocks, but most are 500kg +

To get a yearling, 300/350kg under 900/950 is impossible.
last 3 yrs im avg 880 brought home with selling price avg 1070.

Poor return, but i know it's my buying price that's wrong, it's supply and demand at balla mart id say

If one animal came in at 300/350 ud probably wait another 30 animals for a chance of another.

2 x 350kg chx went for 1150/1250, good cattle, ud want to finish them to make money.

But if that's the price avg cattle is going 900/1000

Saying all that, i do always envy people on boards as they seem to get cattle in for 750/850, .

I seriously came home yesterday empty handed, saying i sell at 1100 and can't be buying at 1000/1100.

No word of a lie, i look up donkeys on donedeal

tomwaterford

P_Cash wrote: »

Not finishing them, stuck with 30 acres, 1 dry shed and that's it. No wintering facilities.
Buying 10 animals to hold for 7 months is getting tougher and tougher.

I started buying end of feb. But wasn't able to go to the mart since then, until yesterday. Even back in feb, i scraped the bottom of the barrel coming home with 3 avg 880, and there is even a FR in it.

MY mart has plenty of bullocks, but most are 500kg +

To get a yearling, 300/350kg under 900/950 is impossible.
last 3 yrs im avg 880 brought home with selling price avg 1070.

Poor return, but i know it's my buying price that's wrong, it's supply and demand at balla mart id say

If one animal came in at 300/350 ud probably wait another 30 animals for a chance of another.

2 x 350kg chx went for 1150/1250, good cattle, ud want to finish them to make money.

But if that's the price avg cattle is going 900/1000

Saying all that, i do always envy people on boards as they seem to get cattle in for 750/850, .

I seriously came home yesterday empty handed, saying i sell at 1100 and can't be buying at 1000/1100.

No word of a lie, i look up donkeys on donedeal

Come April you'll have all you want of dairy bred calves

P_Cash

With the payments coming down, and the price per head going up, 6 months hold going to 7, am i the only one thinking this strategy is too tight a game to play, ideally ud want ur full quota by 1st apr. The way I'm going ill be holding now until end of Nov.

Not to mention if any of us failed a test. Up sh1t creek then

tomwaterford

P_Cash wrote: »

Not to mention if any of us failed a test. Up sh1t creek then

It's similar reasons the father went away from sucklers here....got caught out and took along while to clear the debt/overdraft and felt the reward wasn't worth the risk anymore(also lack of suitable housing....do slatted sheds even pay for themselves anymore???)


Which is just a stroke of luck as if there was cows here id not do anything with them

P_Cash

i don't have a slat shed, i dont have a tractor for working with silage bales,
i don't have a muck spreader, nor time for clean out, not that it would be worth doing financially,

if there was money in it, id do it, but adding up the extra costs on wintering, i just cant see profit in it, unless holding big numbers and finishing cattle.

a two bay which a friend of mine built last year was 20K.

add that silage costs
slurry spreading
fert
finishing costs.

i get the feeling there is a lot of farmers buying and holding for 7 months,

whats the weight gain over the 7 months?
mine is roughly 26kg per month on each bullock, so holding for 7 months is roughly adding 150kgs to each animal, selling at 350+150 500kg +

my strategy is leave something for the next farmer to get.

tomwaterford

P_Cash wrote: »

i don't have a slat shed, i dont have a tractor for working with silage bales,
i don't have a muck spreader, nor time for clean out, not that it would be worth doing financially,

if there was money in it, id do it, but adding up the extra costs on wintering, i just cant see profit in it, unless holding big numbers and finishing cattle.

a two bay which a friend of mine built last year was 20K.

add that silage costs
slurry spreading
fert
finishing costs.

i get the feeling there is a lot of farmers buying and holding for 7 months,

whats the weight gain over the 7 months?
mine is roughly 26kg per month on each bullock, so holding for 7 months is roughly adding 150kgs to each animal, selling at 350+150 500kg +

my strategy is leave something for the next farmer to get.

The only issue I've ever taught on that system is your buying at the expensive time of the year and selling at the time the market flooded by those in a similar fashion

If you were to buy ewes with lambs at foot and sell at end of the year fit for the ram....would it give you a better return for your money as IMO a e1000 worth of sheep/store lambs can leave more profit than a e1000 worth of cattle (provided you get the animals at the right price)

AP2014

P_Cash wrote: »

i don't have a slat shed, i dont have a tractor for working with silage bales,
i don't have a muck spreader, nor time for clean out, not that it would be worth doing financially,

if there was money in it, id do it, but adding up the extra costs on wintering, i just cant see profit in it, unless holding big numbers and finishing cattle.

a two bay which a friend of mine built last year was 20K.

add that silage costs
slurry spreading
fert
finishing costs.

i get the feeling there is a lot of farmers buying and holding for 7 months,

whats the weight gain over the 7 months?
mine is roughly 26kg per month on each bullock, so holding for 7 months is roughly adding 150kgs to each animal, selling at 350+150 500kg +

my strategy is leave something for the next farmer to get.

Couple things.....I don't think you should be buying yourself, unless you enjoy using your work holidays for days in the mart. I get mine through a dealer who is at a mart everyday of the week except Sunday. Sounds like you're at the wrong mart.

You're weight gain doesn't sound great, I buy 260 - 320kg and sell usually 550kg to 600kg. Lads I just bought were half starved, doing well already.

You are concentrating alot on making money from cattle, what about selling some silage?

Also get yourself into GLAS, free money....I am doing my plan now and from low input perm pasture and wbc I am up to €4500 a year. Takes a few cattle to make that money.

Finally let the next farmer worry about himself. You should worried about getting as much as you can for your time and effort. I don't think the lads that are selling to you now are overly concerned as to what cut you make if any.

tomwaterford

AP2014 wrote: »

Couple things.....I don't think you should be buying yourself, unless you enjoy using your work holidays for days in the mart. I get mine through a dealer who is at a mart everyday of the week except Sunday. Sounds like you're at the wrong mart.

You're weight gain doesn't sound great, I buy 260 - 320kg and sell usually 550kg to 600kg. Lads I just bought were half starved, doing well already.

You are concentrating alot on making money from cattle, what about selling some silage?

Also get yourself into GLAS, free money....I am doing my plan now and from low input perm pasture and wbc I am up to €4500 a year. Takes a few cattle to make that money.

Finally let the next farmer worry about himself. You should worried about getting as much as you can for your time and effort. I don't think the lads that are selling to you now are overly concerned as to what cut you make if any.

Are you allowed reseed/spray off bogland/scrub in GLAS??

P_Cash

AP2014 wrote: »

Couple things.....I don't think you should be buying yourself, unless you enjoy using your work holidays for days in the mart. I get mine through a dealer who is at a mart everyday of the week except Sunday. Sounds like you're at the wrong mart.

You're weight gain doesn't sound great, I buy 260 - 320kg and sell usually 550kg to 600kg. Lads I just bought were half starved, doing well already.

You are concentrating alot on making money from cattle, what about selling some silage?

Also get yourself into GLAS, free money....I am doing my plan now and from low input perm pasture and wbc I am up to €4500 a year. Takes a few cattle to make that money.

Finally let the next farmer worry about himself. You should worried about getting as much as you can for your time and effort. I don't think the lads that are selling to you now are overly concerned as to what cut you make if any.

Are you grass only or do you supplement, at any time?

300kgs in 7 months? That's the other grass right?

AP2014

tomwaterford wrote: »

Are you allowed reseed/spray off bogland/scrub in GLAS??

No, can't have reseeded in 10 years for low input perm pasture, you can't cut silage from march to july and only 1 and half roughly of 18.6.12 to acre. Must contain less than 30% ryegrass which most of mine does, not all but going to take the risk and stick in most of the farm.

tomwaterford

AP2014 wrote: »

No, can't have reseeded in 10 years for low input perm pasture, you can't cut silage from march to july and only 1 and half roughly of 18.6.12 to acre. Must contain less than 30% ryegrass which most of mine does, not all but going to take the risk and stick in most of the farm.

Jesus you'll grow fcuk all for that!! :eek:


Can you reclaim say areas over grown with furze/gorse and can you spray off rushes/do general draining

AP2014

tomwaterford wrote: »

Jesus you'll grow fcuk all for that!! :eek:


Can you reclaim say areas over grown with furze/gorse and can you spray off rushes/do general draining

€314 a ha......would be hard to make it from reseeding it....they are paying you not to work. Strange scheme. Not sure on drainage to be honest. Will read through again.

tomwaterford

AP2014 wrote: »

€314 a ha......would be hard to make it from reseeding it....they are paying you not to work. Strange scheme. Not sure on drainage to be honest. Will read through again.

Emm twould be tight alright.....at same time twould want to be a very bad hectare that wouldn't keep 10 lambs

I'm more interested in the reseeding/reclaiming end at the min

And spraying off weeds/ferns from corners of fields....I must look further into this scheme

AP2014

tomwaterford wrote: »

Emm twould be tight alright.....at same time twould want to be a very bad hectare that wouldn't keep 10 lambs

I'm more interested in the reseeding/reclaiming end at the min

And spraying off weeds/ferns from corners of fields....I must look further into this scheme

Here ya go....Page 47 onwards...nothing on drainage.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/glas/GLASSpecification23022015.pdf

Kevhog1988

doctorjan wrote: »

Thanks for the advice,

I do agree that a change your system is probably the only option.

Thanks Capercaille, I will look into GLAS.

As _Brian said an accounting loss is hard to swallow, that's what brought me here.
At least his similar experience in 2009 with a cost of €650 to keep a cow for the year is in line with what i was coming up with.

I do accept what AP2014 was saying too, overheads are too high and fencing had gotten away from me. This year should bring that to an end.
My fencing expenses included a neighbour with sheep he refused to fence off along a 300m boundary and when I inherited the place my father had been a battery fence man for 20 years; I just found it easier to split the place into paddocks and fence the boundary properly. I know this was more expense but still makes life easier on the wet days when the vet is due and i hafta get them in either before or after work.
(I'll never understand how animals pick up on when you're anxious to get them in and just decide to run all over the place)

For me sheep are not an option with full time job
sheep take up a serious amount of time as far as i can see.

I think this year either I will try the buy in spring, sell in autumn system
or close off a chunk of it and sell silage/ hay over two cuts
or just rent it out?

any thoughts on these ideas? Land is in midlands - anyone have any idea on rental value / pitfalls? I'm thinking I'd have to ask for money up front?

Where in the midlands?? im looking for land to rent. pm me location. Im in North Kildare. Have no problem paying up front or monthly or whatever way you want.

P_Cash

Last time i said to a fella take the meadow of it, it wasn't cut till early aug, the place left in sh1t and no grass on it for 6 months.

I hate bringing/letting others in on the land.

Cutting and storing myself, same issue. Maybe if i had a yard for the bales, but not otherwise. Cutting up land over winter to get bales out.

Not even mentioning keeping tabs on them, working full time has so many draw backs.

I even feel yrs a ago u could rely on other farmers in the area, but little of us in the game now

AP2014

P_Cash wrote: »

Last time i said to a fella take the meadow of it, it wasn't cut till early aug, the place left in sh1t and no grass on it for 6 months.

I hate bringing/letting others in on the land.

Cutting and storing myself, same issue. Maybe if i had a yard for the bales, but not otherwise. Cutting up land over winter to get bales out.

Not even mentioning keeping tabs on them, working full time has so many draw backs.

I even feel yrs a ago u could rely on other farmers in the area, but little of us in the game now

Very true, I have 2 guys at the moment I trust. One wants to cut it nearly before June, I don't mind but extra bales for me if he leaves it longer. Always one or two chancers. They have to be out by end of June with me.

On meal, I can't afford it and don't see it as profitable. Keep a field or two of grass under them in March/April and they will push on in May/June.

On weights it's usually 200 -250kg. Some of your heavy ones could be going backwards for 2 months. Depends on the animal.