Dublin City Council to consider bylaws to regulate buskers

RobYourBuilder

A public consultation on Dublin buskers found an overwhelming majority of concerns related to “excessive noise”, with many participants seeking a ban on amplification.

Draft bylaws regulating the capital’s buskers will, if passed, allow gardaí and city officials to intervene based on a permit. The regulations are to be debated by councillors next week.

The public consultation, which concluded last month, resulted in 88 submissions, addressing a range of issues including volume, time limits, obstruction of business entrances, pedestrian flow, and proposed bans on “potentially dangerous performances”.

Of the submissions received, 82 per cent identified “excessive noise” as the main issue and of those, 44 per cent (31 submissions) sought an outright ban on the use of amplifiers.

In addition, 17 per cent asked that percussion instruments be banned, 15 per cent asked for amplifiers to be prohibited in some locations and 17 per cent that a volume limit be enforced.

Much of this stems from a rise in the number of bands using electric instruments and performing without limitation.

Banning amps or at least enforcing time restrictions on their use would be great. No real issues there.

Regulations would require performers to apply for a €30 annual licence (€60 for amplified acts) which could be revoked for breaches with potential fines of up to €1,500. The refusal or revocation of permits may be subject to two separate appeal mechanisms.

Not too sure about charging buskers a license fee. Sure, 30 blips isn't that much. But once the council realise that there's a decent revenue stream to be made, the annual renewal fee will increase and increase. Could kill off the scene.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-to-consider-bylaws-to-regulate-buskers-1.2066110

Thoughts?

highlandseoghan

Id like to see buskers regulated. Id like to see different buskers like you get a slot for a period of time and then it changes. Some buskers are excellent and add a real buzz to town.

I think the €30 fee is ok as long as it stays low if it kept getting higher no busker would be interested.

Teyla Emmagan

Not bad, 30 euro not prohibitive. IMO think they should:

- Ban amps completely in certain locations
- Restrict the number of acts allowed perform in designated areas
- Subject human statues, sand dogs and pavement scribblers to the same criteria

There are days you can hardly get up Grafton St and woe betide anyone stuck near an amp for the day, you'd be driven mad.

John_Rambo

And a blanket ban on panpipes with backing music from massive speakers.

Anyone breaking the ban should have their pipes panned.

Ole Rodrigo

Good news. Anyone with a brass neck can get up and do as they please. The quality of performance has deteriorated a lot over the years - mediocrity used to be the exception rather than the rule. Bloody wonderwall merchants..::pac:

Teyla Emmagan

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

Good news. Anyone with a brass neck can get up and do as they please. The quality of performance has deteriorated a lot over the years - mediocrity used to be the exception rather than the rule. Bloody wonderwall merchants..::pac:

I can't but agree. But requiring buskers to meet a certain criteria of talent before letting them free might be a bit subjective and outside DCC's limits!

loyatemu

Just ban the use of amps without a license. If someone wants to play acoustic guitar or sing on the street and others want to throw them some money, I don't see what business it is of the council's. The guards already have the power to move on anyone who is causing a blockage or a disturbance.

Ole Rodrigo

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I can't but agree. But requiring buskers to meet a certain criteria of talent before letting them free might be a bit subjective and outside DCC's limits!

Its a good point. I was thinking of something in addition to a license...like a certificate in public space performance.

I think that busking musicians should be drawn from established bands or music school graduates.

CianRyan

There's already a licence, it's just not enforced.

ProudDUB

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

Its a good point. I was thinking of something in addition to a license...like a certificate in public space performance.

I think that busking musicians should be drawn from established bands or music school graduates.

They are probably the least likely sector to want to busk or need to busk.

I'm all for buskers, just not ones with amps. I was in Fields jewelers during the summer and a lad was out side the door playing an electric guitar. The sales assistant and I couldn't hear ourselves think.

cloud493

Good. Its ridiculous some of the days on grafton street specially, but also on henry, when some eejit buskers or performers are taking up amounts of pavement.

AndrewJD

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I can't but agree. But requiring buskers to meet a certain criteria of talent before letting them free might be a bit subjective and outside DCC's limits!

They actually do this on the London Underground. They audition in front of a panel. The difference is that TfL artificially creates the busking spots so limits the number of licenses they can give out, so it's easy to say no to bad acts. That's a lot harder when really there's an unlimited number of licenses that can be given out, so setting a minimum standard is a lot more difficult.

Vic_08

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I can't but agree. But requiring buskers to meet a certain criteria of talent before letting them free might be a bit subjective and outside DCC's limits!

That is exactly what London Underground did about 10 years ago and it has worked well. Only licenced buskers are allowed and given specific marked pitches that are in appropriate locations so they don't create obstructions.

And yes, they do hold auditions to ensure the buskers have a reasonable ability.

Easier to do in a more controlled environment but certainly not impossible to implement in a specific city centre area.

http://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/culture-and-heritage/busking?intcmp=2847

hmmm

On the one hand I'd like some buskers regulated. On the other hand, I don't want to create a job for some bureaucrat to hand out papers and stamp some documents.

I'd prefer to see some bylaws enforced e.g. no amplifiers and a free for all after that. A 16 year old should be able to get out there with a guitar and give it a go, even if they turn out to be dreadful.

Greenmachine

Amps should be controlled, and completely banned after a certain time, at a minimum.

odyssey06

Vic_08 wrote: »

And yes, they do hold auditions to ensure the buskers have a reasonable ability.

Clearly, we should take it a step further and confiscate the instruments of any failing musicians to protect innocents from being subjected to their 'music'...

But seriously... no amps without a licence for sure, and during specified times only.

Vic_08

odyssey06 wrote: »

Clearly, we should take it a step further and confiscate the instruments of any failing musicians to protect innocents from being subjected to their 'music'...

How about to prevent those living and working within earshot from being driven insane by some piss-poor attempt at guitar playing or a beggar with zero skill from making a noise to appear as a busker not a beggar?

Even those with some ability can really be annoying when they play the same thing for hours on end, there is a guy regularly under the railway bridge on Beresford Place by the Irish Life building playing along to a backing track on an amp, the same bloody repetitive tune over and over. After 10-15 mns it really grates, I pity anyone in an office or flat within earshot.

TBH I don't have a strong opinion on how to regulate it, I was just pointing out that it has been done successfully elsewhere.

Oh, a vid of a Docu-soap detailing the introduction of the LU busking process.

CianRyan

I feel if you're not powerful enough to put across a good performance with an acoustic guitar and your own voice, having an amp will not make you any better; Just louder and more annoying.

Anyone with an electric guitar should be liable to a fine if they're playing above a certain (yet to be defined) decibel level.

Full bands should not be permitted to play in any area where by there presence may cause an obstruction. This should also stance for dance grounds, large performances, etc.

No one should be permitted to cordon off an area, by means of with a rope or otherwise, without prior permission from DCC. No one may cordon off any area of it is likely to cause an obstruction.



Something along the lines of that.

I'm sick walking down Henry Street and hearing teen age boys without a note in their head blaring terrible Ed Sheeran covers over a small PA system.
And re thoughts of trying to walking Grafton Street on a Saturday, squeezing past huge crowds surrounding a bunch of morons taking people's money and never even performing...

odyssey06

Vic_08 wrote: »

Even those with some ability can really be annoying when they play the same thing for hours on end, there is a guy regularly under the railway bridge on Beresford Place by the Irish Life building playing along to a backing track on an amp, the same bloody repetitive tune over and over. After 10-15 mns it really grates, I pity anyone in an office or flat within earshot.

I didn't mean to dismiss the problem... just it occurred to me that if you can't get past that panel maybe you should do everyone a favour and not let loose in public!

I would say the LU is a 'separate' place and can have its own bye-laws etc, whereas it could be difficult bringing that to all of Dublin city centre... I think boardwalk is a special zone. Possibly could be done on 'protected' streets like Grafton street also... but what if the guy says he is singing a protest song and claims free speech?
Whereas amp, loudspeakers etc are more tangible target or legislation and enforcement.

ollaetta

CianRyan wrote: »

There's already a licence, it's just not enforced.

No, there isn't. The Council tried a code of voluntary conduct for 3 months back in 2012. Worked for a while but it was back bad as ever in no time. These byelaws are the first time a licence or permit will be needed.

It goes to a Council vote next week. There's a Facebook campaign started by some band opposing the volume limit and trying to present the byelaws as DCC trying to stamp out busking. Can't or don't want to see that busking could thrive without the racket.

RobYourBuilder

Dublin city council voted on the proposals last night. The proposed ban on amps failed and they will introduce a new permit system. Don't agree with either of them decisions, but there we go.

Dublin city councillors have voted in favour of new busking by-laws that will introduce a permit system and limit noise levels to 80 decibels for most of the city.

Attempts to introduce a ban on amplifiers were defeated.

City councillors were lobbied heavily in the run up to the vote with Temple Bar residents calling for a ban on amplifiers to be included in the by-laws.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0202/677182-love-ulster/

THIS EVENING DUBLIN City Councillors voted on a series of busking by-laws, which could change the face of street performance in the city.

The bye-laws will see the introduction of a permit system for performers, an 80 decibel limit on amplifiers and a limit of two hours on performances.

They will limit times in the city to between 9am and 11pm (with exceptions for Grafton Street). Buskers will not be able to stand within fifty feet of another entertainer.

Commenting this evening, Councillor Séamus McGrattan, who voted in favour of the bye-laws, said they will ensure that traditional busking will remain “part of the fabric of our city”.

“The new regulations will also protect residents and businesses as, for the first time ever, it gives them a chance to report unacceptable noise levels.”

“I feel these new [sic] bylaws are necessary as the issue of excessive noise and nuisance to residents and business by a small minority of buskers was getting out of hand,” he added.

Temple Bar

One piece of good news for buskers is that proposals to introduce a ban on amplifiers in Temple Bar fell flat.

Ahead of the vote, Green Party councillor and arts spokesperson Claire Byrne says there’s a delicate balance to strike between maintaining the rich tradition of busking and street performance in Ireland and around the country, while also considering people who work and live in areas like Temple Bar.

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/busking-dublin-laws-1915674-Feb2015/

mickdub2012

Iv e been busking on Henry street quite a while and only got an amp because of all the trumpets and Romanian bands blaring out mad music.
I find that it's better without an amp but it's more practical with one less strain on vocal chords.
I've never been given out to about being too loud I play at least 40/50 songs without repeating any .
There are some who play the same 6/8 songs over and over again which really gets my goat.
The rules are ridiculous it's the people who have constantly been too loud and not caring about people or shops around them.
I actually have a great rapport with the shops and staff.
Hooefully when the council review the licences they make people do an audition to evaluate their skills and Issue licences accordingly.
For anyone that's passed me at dunnes on Henry street and donated to the cause thanks it's appreciated

Mesrine65

What about the break-dancing posse outside Stephens Green shopping centre?

They block off the whole junction & blare a ghetto blaster with their shíte, saw a lady with twins in a buggy struggling to get past the crowd, it has to be a H&S issue.

Confucius say

Mesrine65 wrote: »

What about the break-dancing posse outside Stephens Green shopping centre?

They block off the whole junction & blare a ghetto blaster with their shíte, saw a lady with twins in a buggy struggling to get past the crowd, it has to be a H&S issue.

All they seem to do is stand there for hours stretching. Absolutely sh*te excuse for entertainment.
I work around Grafton St so I'm subjected to awful cringeworthy acts daily.
There are two Eastern European looking dudes that play within earshot of each other, one on fiddle and one on flute. They just play the most mundane songs over a backing track. Time to say goodbye, the titanic song etc.
it's anti-art! And young fellas on a guitar without a note in their head and awful voice. Then there's the guy dressed as a leprechaun who you pay to take a picture with.
It's bringing the tone of the street down and I actually avoid it half the time as I'm particularly sensitive to terrible music and cringeworthy tack.

Tigerbaby

Can we replace "regulated" with "culled"?

FloatingVoter

Tigerbaby wrote: »

Can we replace "regulated" with "culled"?

That raises the danger of starting another seagull thread.

Tigerbaby

FloatingVoter wrote: »

That raises the danger of starting another seagull thread.

but the Seagulls can at least dance. and they dont ever inflict "Wonderwall" on innocent passers-by