36,000 Irish adults illegally download every day

Shiraz 4.99

Picked up today in both the Indo & the IT

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/more-than-36000-watch-illegal-videos-every-day-survey-shows-30929869.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/study-shows-over-36-000-irish-adults-downloading-illegally-1.2075451

Over 36,000 people illegally watch films and TV online every day in Ireland, according to new research. And one in five adults have illegally accessed content in the last 12 months.

Younger adults are most likely to download content with 1 in 3 adults aged between 15 and 24 having done so in the last 12 months. Approximately 1 in 4 adults aged between 25 to 34 admit to doing the same, as do 1 in 20 of those aged 55 years or more.

The report also maintains that the legal alternatives such as Spotify & Netflix aren't making any inroads into these figures.
The averages tell us that 1 in 5 illegally download, anecdotally speaking I'd say that's about right but then they share amongst their friends so the reach is further than the 20%.
The 3 strike rule is a token gesture at best as it's no real disincentive, plus I've never known anyone to be issued one of these scary letters.

I'm not sure how the eventual endgame will play out but whatever solution is reached it will have to be enacted worldwide.
We have the ridiculous situation now where people have watched most of the Oscar worthy films in the comfort of their own home before they even reach Irish cinemas.

If something doesn't change the studios & record companies will just give up developing product, what's the point if they don't get paid for it.

hadepsx

well if they didnt charge so much for entry/food in the cinemas id go more often and download less.

The_Captain

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Picked up today in both the Indo & the IT

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/more-than-36000-watch-illegal-videos-every-day-survey-shows-30929869.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/study-shows-over-36-000-irish-adults-downloading-illegally-1.2075451





The report also maintains that the legal alternatives such as Spotify & Netflix aren't making any inroads into these figures.
The averages tell us that 1 in 5 illegally download, anecdotally speaking I'd say that's about right but then they share amongst their friends so the reach is further than the 20%.
The 3 strike rule is a token gesture at best as it's no real disincentive, plus I've never known anyone to be issued one of these scary letters.

I'm not sure how the eventual endgame will play out but whatever solution is reached it will have to be enacted worldwide.
We have the ridiculous situation now where people have watched most of the Oscar worthy films in the comfort of their own home before they even reach Irish cinemas.

If something doesn't change the studios & record companies will just give up developing product, what's the point if they don't get paid for it.

Oh look you've found the real source of the problem.

Micky Dolenz

"Would you steal a car?"

"I would if I could download it"

JaseBelleVie

When films can still gross in excess of one billion dollars at the global box office, I don't think this "epidemic" is half as bad as some make out.

And film budgets can still run into the tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions. I'll start worrying when budgets and box offices receipts are hugely slashed.

Lovely Bloke

I do it, every morning I go visit a couple of the more well known torrent sites and get that evening's viewing. Or download stuff I might never watch, but it's there for future viewing if needed.

We don't have any TV subscription in the house, UPC give us 17 analog channels for free with my broadband/phone deal. I use the broadband to download the latest American and British TV, and watch it at times convenient to me, with no ads. It's great.

One of the producers or something of Game of Thrones said he didn't care if people pirated it.

My wife uses the nefarious streaming services to watch the likes of The Real Housewives of Wherever.

The only thing I don't illegally watch is sports streams, it's just not worth it, the shíte quality you've to put up with, so I use my brother's SkyGo on my laptop, connected to my telly.

Duggy747

Probably because Irish Netflix's selection is muck.

Mr. Incognito

36,000 seems low to me

One eyed Jack

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

If something doesn't change the studios & record companies will just give up developing product, what's the point if they don't get paid for it.

If they make a product worth paying for, more people will pay for it. The problem is the quality of the product, not the fact it's so easily available. I haven't been to the cinema in years, and I haven't downloaded any films, music, etc in years either. The novelty just wears off when a good percentage of what you're downloading is dirt. I'd consider it simply a waste of time to download it in the first place, let alone take the time to sit down and watch it.

Tefral

The studios et all are behind the times. When they can provide something as simple as a torrent file for me to download then that's problem solved. I go to the cinema once a week, I've gone to the cinema to watch a movie that I might have already seen as a screener!

Every night of the week I watch a movie with the other half, if its a boxset, a download, a bluray whatever, I just want to be able to put my hands on it and watch away.

When they provide the latest and greatest at the touch of a button, that's the route ill use.

I firmly believe you cant beat the cinema experience for some movies and my first port of call will always be the cinema over a camera in the cinema jobby.

AnimalChin

Duggy747 wrote: »

Probably because Irish Netflix's selection is muck.

Amateur.

28064212

Why is it that the pirate providers are capable of providing a much better content delivery platform than the multi-billion dollar studios? When the studios/production companies finally get their shit together and provide 21st century methods of obtaining and viewing their content, I'll start paying them

Gatling

Eircom recently complained that customets were flooding to another provider for unlimited illegal downloading leaving them at a disadvantage competition wise

generalmental

They have been ripping us off for years. I still have the first CD I ever bought, it was Guns and Roses Use your illusion album and it STILL has the price tag on it. It cost £29.99 not euro but punts.

endacl

Duggy747 wrote: »

Probably because Irish Netflix's selection is muck.

Hola. 'Nuff said.

Stone Deaf 4evr

No wonder its so popular.

1. sky and its movie packages are crazy expensive for non current films
2. the days of staggered release dates for movies is stupid, the world wide web makes it too easy to access stuff from anywhere
3. Netflix content is poor, and the other services like amazon prime, Hulu, aren't available here
4. Even if you do use a VPN to get around Hulu and amazon, content is too scattered - theres no service that offers everything, all in one spot.

techdiver

Yes, $10 Billion per year box office taking are a sign of a failing industry.

http://pro.boxoffice.com/statistics/yearly

The numbers grew in 2012 and 2013. There was a slight fall last year as it was a "weaker" year for the blockbusters. I would be confident 2015 will exceed last year, with Avengers, Star Wars etc coming out.

username000

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

2. the days of staggered release dates for movies is stupid, the world wide web makes it too easy to access stuff from anywhere

This.

People dont want to wait days or weeks to see something that is already being discussed on internet forums and fan sites after its initial airing elsewhere.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Why is HBO only available in the USA? I would subscribe if it was available here

Duggy747

AnimalChin wrote: »

Amateur.

No need for Netflix / VPNs when I have Kodi

somesoldiers

I'd be happy to pay if I could get a service that allows me to watch shows the day after they are released in the US. I stream a lot of stuff maybe 20 hours a week, would be happy to pay a couple of hundred euros a year for this.

I have little interest in movies, will go to xtravision the odd time rather than trying to stream which i find is just a pain

Shiraz 4.99

cronin_j wrote: »

I firmly believe you cant beat the cinema experience for some movies and my first port of call will always be the cinema over a camera in the cinema jobby.

People don't even have to suffer poor cams anymore.
Many new Cinema releases now come out in Asia on demand within weeks of their general release.
Yes you might have to watch them with Korean subs but they're DVD quality.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Nash Microscopic Sprinkler wrote: »

Why is HBO only available in the USA? I would subscribe if it was available here

Its all down to prehistoric licencing and distribution deals with the likes of Sky atlantic here, and other carriers in other countries. the likes of sky are slow to let go of them as they are a major source of potential advertising revenue.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

People don't even have to suffer poor cams anymore.
Many new Cinema releases now come out in Asia on demand within weeks of their general release.
Yes you might have to watch them with Korean subs but they're DVD quality.

A lot of them seem to come from 'On demand' services in hotels as well.

Tefral

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

People don't even have to suffer poor cams anymore.
Many new Cinema releases now come out in Asia on demand within weeks of their general release.
Yes you might have to watch them with Korean subs but they're DVD quality.

That the R6's?

Anyone used popcorntime yet? I downloaded it the other day. Seems like a great yoke!

eamonnq

Duggy747 wrote: »

No need for Netflix / VPNs when I have Kodi

Amateur :)

Shiraz 4.99

So Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks go on Graham Norton to promote their new film but myself & the missus can't afford the €70 (Tickets+Popcorn+Babysitter).
Why isn't there a service where I can pay a tenner to stream that new release right now while there's a buzz about it, in 3 months time the longing will be gone off me so they get one shot to cash in.

_Jumper_

Poor distribution by the studios, they know this and have been pulled on it by judges in the US but they dont want to change.

They're still creaming it.

_Jumper_

eamonnq wrote: »

Amateur :)

Lol at the "experts"

Turtyturd

Download pretty much everything, movies, music, tv shows, comics, books, hopefully my next car. Only thing I don't bother with are console games as I heard there are some online restrictions.

Have no issue doing it but still think the cinema experience can't be beaten for most movies and with music I will support some of the artists by buying tickets to gigs/merchandise.

whisky_galore

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

"Would you steal a car?"

Yes. Yes I would.

sh1tstirrer

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I do it, every morning I go visit a couple of the more well known torrent sites and get that evening's viewing. Or download stuff I might never watch, but it's there for future viewing if needed.

We don't have any TV subscription in the house, UPC give us 17 analog channels for free with my broadband/phone deal. I use the broadband to download the latest American and British TV, and watch it at times convenient to me, with no ads. It's great.

One of the producers or something of Game of Thrones said he didn't care if people pirated it.

My wife uses the nefarious streaming services to watch the likes of The Real Housewives of Wherever.

The only thing I don't illegally watch is sports streams, it's just not worth it, the shíte quality you've to put up with, so I use my brother's SkyGo on my laptop, connected to my telly.

How do you even watch that much television?

hfallada

Dr Dre realised that money was no longer going to made by selling music. But though concerts and endorsements. The prime example being beats by Dr dre. He didn't sit there and say piracy is killing the industry. He realised money can be made in other ways.

Even if you down a film illegally. How much are the studios going to make from.merchandise from you? The prime example is Disney with the frozen doll. Yes ticket sales and DVD sales are important. But the film industry must move the times and make revenue from.other streams

krustydoyle

I download films but mainly it's TV series on American time that I watch.. And if there's a new album out and I can find it then I'll download that too.. It's all about accessibility for me.. If it's there then it's hard to ignore (for me anyways)

Grayson

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

So Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks go on Graham Norton to promote their new film but myself & the missus can't afford the €70 (Tickets+Popcorn+Babysitter).
Why isn't there a service where I can pay a tenner to stream that new release right now while there's a buzz about it, in 3 months time the longing will be gone off me so they get one shot to cash in.

They're doing that with a lot of stuff in the US now. Released in the cinema and then a day or two later on demand via itunes. The day or tow delay is to get people into the cinema.

At least films are in the cinema at the same time they're released in the US. It's down to digital copies. When cinemas used reels, the reels were expensive to produce so they used to show a film in the US and then ship it over here when they'd finished using reels.

TheDoc

I discuss it the odd time on the Film forum. I'm an avid downloader, and have been for over 15 years, back in the days using IRC channels, right up to now, where my setup just downloads everything is automated.

I still frequent the cinema, not the twice a week me and the girlfriend used to, but easily 2-3 times a month. Our most recent trip was to see the Hobbit. Two adult tickets and two medium combos to a film in it's end of cycle, €38.90. Two quid for parking brought it to a rounded €40.

With a new baby recently arrived, our cinema trips are down and we havn't been able to utilise the midweek deals anymore, but €40 is nothing short of scandalous imo.

Oh and the reason we went to the Hobbit? Exodus Gods and Kings had a 8 day release cycle, ahead of a rumoured re-release in the summer. John Wick while already out on Bluray in the states, doesn't have a cinema release here until March/April.

The industry is hardly doing itself any favours.

But that's not even excuses, I don't make excuses. I'm downloading before most people in this country had an always on connection. It's just become a simple habbit, I still buy Blu-ray, a pretty large amount if I'm honest. I still go to the cinema, and don't normally scoff at the price since I typically enjoy the film, but it's made us be extremely selective. Something that has a whiff of " might not be good" get's a download. Was fuming after the last Hobbit with it being so ****.

But in reality the majority of my downloading is done for TV-Shows. Shows that either arn't available here or come along months after their initial airing. I have a SKy subscription though and for certain things I'll stick with Sky Atlantic since they air Monday night after the Us Sunday evening, which is fine.

At the end of the day, people are always going to want to save money, going to want to get stuff for free, and I don't think it's something easily challenged. I'd imagine to tackle it, there will need to be a really, global or European legilsative initiative, where people downloading illegally are actually prosecuted.

Things like Spotify and Netflix are good starts. I havn't downloaded music illegally since Spotify came into the country. I have a premium subscription and it's a brilliant service with great value. I'm happy to fork out the X euro a month, for the platform it provides. I don't particularly care that artists arn't getting big $$$ from it. They arn't being forced to sign up. It's a marketing tool at best, that opens their music to a wider audience in the hope that maybe they pickup some fans for concerts, where the real money is.

Netflix is a decent attempt, but unfortunately the various production companies have shot themselves in the foot. Licensing different films and rates in different region, making exclusives to different platforms, means films are scattered across multiple platforms. I tend to us Google Movies as I enjoy Google platforms. I have a netflix premium subscription ( why I don't know I think its very poor) but in reality they've made a meal of trying to provide digital content.

Long been avidly a fan of the prospect of being able to pay a fee, to view a cinematic release, on release day, in the comfort of my own home. I thought the interview was an interesting case. While it was relatively quickly available for piracy, I paid €5 for a 24hr VOD that we watched in the comfort of home. I'd happily do that going forward for cinematic releases, but alas, no, it's not an option.

Frigga_92

Irish Netflix is very poor.
We don't have Sky or UPC and would have to pay a few quid to get either of them in (it's an old house) and then you're looking at a monthly bill on top of that.
The freeview service is terrible where we are, any bit of rain or wind and we can't get any of the Irish channels but the English ones work fine for some reason.
We already pay €75 a month for a pretty crappy broadband service so might as well get our money's worth out of it.
We do go to the cinema but nowhere near as often as we used to. It's very expensive, you're talking about the guts of €30 just for tickets.
Something like Spotify, where you can find pretty much any song you want at any time, but for movies and tv shows would be ideal.
I bought a few Christmas presents from Amazon before Christmas and when the boxes arrived there was Amazon Prime free trial vouchers in them. At first I thought it probably wasn't available here but when the vouchers kept arriving in every box I thought there must be a reason. It allowed me to sign up using my Irish address and postcode etc but everything I clicked on said unavailable in your country or something to that effect. I obviously cancelled the subscription. I don't see why Amazon Prime isn't available here.

ongarboy

I read that it seems like the companies that put out the most popular shows do not necessarily mind the illegal downloading/torrenting. When Game of Thrones become the most torrented show ever during the first episode of the last season, the makers said the buzz created by such a feat creates a lot of positive downstream impact. (eg even if only 10-20% of people purchase DVDs, cable channel that provides it etc due to positive word of mouth from their friends who torrent it, it pays dividends for the makers. The media discussing such shows and their popularity through illegal downloads is also free advertising for them.).

People give out about Netflix's UK and Ireland output being limited and it is but I read recently that Netflix doesn't mind or will not be pursuing anyone who logs in to their US library (through Hola etc) which has far more content. Ultimately, they said they hope to have the same library available to all users globally once territorial licencing agreements can be reached.

ongarboy

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

We already pay €75 a month for a pretty crappy broadband service so might as well get our money's worth out of it.

You are being majorly ripped off for that. I only pay 30 euro a month on UPC for unlimited high speed BB. I suggest you change providers (check out bonkers.ie for service provider comparisons).

VinLieger

Blaming people who pirate is such a bullah1t excuse since study after study has revealed IF people were given a reasonably priced way to access content then they would pay for it.

And no netflix is not good enough as its Irish selection is garbage and we have to wait in most cases over a year for the latest episodes of shows to be put onto it which in the states most shows appear on hulu the next day or immediately after they first air.

Ive said it countless times before on here about this discussion, if they want my money they have to give my a service where I can access as much content as possible whenever I want and I will happily pay for it, until then they can continue to cry about pirating while they treat anyone outside of the us as a second class customer and treat us like sh1t.

UCDVet

VinLieger wrote: »

Blaming people who pirate is such a bullah1t excuse since study after study has revealed IF people were given a reasonably priced way to access content then they would pay for it.

And no netflix is not good enough as its Irish selection is garbage and we have to wait in most cases over a year for the latest episodes of shows to be put onto it which in the states most shows appear on hulu the next day or immediately after they first air.

Ive said it countless times before on here about this discussion, if they want my money they have to give my a service where I can access as much content as possible whenever I want and I will happily pay for it, until then they can continue to cry about pirating while they treat anyone outside of the us as a second class customer and treat us like sh1t.

I'm sorry - but that's not true.

Only 1 in 10 Android games are legit. 9 in 10 are pirated. And these are games that cost less than 1 eur.

How much cheaper does it need to be?
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/02/android-market-game-piracy

(Many) People pirate because they want to.

MarkY91

I have upc TV and Netflix. I use Netflix to browse and watch instantly. I torrent many times a week and I don't give a fcuk who thinks what. haven't even seen a dvd movie in a couple of years in our family home.

Oh and the cinema.. I got a few times a year for a blockbuster like Godzilla and transformers. Just short of 20 euro for your ticket and food. Lower your damn prices you morons!!

Frigga_92

ongarboy wrote: »

You are being majorly ripped off for that. I only pay 30 euro a month on UPC for unlimited high speed BB. I suggest you change providers (check out bonkers.ie for service provider comparisons).

I live in a bad area. I'm well aware of the great deals all the broadband providers have but those speeds and deals are not available where I live.

TheDoc

ongarboy wrote: »

You are being majorly ripped off for that. I only pay 30 euro a month on UPC for unlimited high speed BB. I suggest you change providers (check out bonkers.ie for service provider comparisons).

Agree.

Although if your not in a UPC serviced area your ****ed, as Eircom absolutely rip you out of it.

In Donabate last year, I was being charged €67 a month for a 24mb ADSL line(decade old tech). Was faulty for 8 out of the 12 months. Ended up getting reimbursed for the 8 months, and paying €20 a month for the remaining 4. Wouldn't go near them ever again, but unfortunately if you live in non UPc catchment your short on options,since it will all be Eircom lines anyway.

No.1 criteria now for houses etc. for me, is that it needs to be a UPC catchment area. I literally moved last March because of it, moving back to a UPC enabled area.

Even UPC's much advertised price hike recently. I rang up and they bumped my package, and kept me on the same rate I was paying before.

240mb Fibre broadband, unlimited lan and mobile calls anytime. €45 a month.

Frank O. Pinion

I laugh when people who don't understand torrents say things like, "I'd rather pay to see something in the cinema, with that experience, than watch a shaky camera record on my laptop." Yeah, pirates who like quality are downloading 20+ GB 1080p Blu-ray remuxes, and watching them on their huge TVs, through their WDTVs or whatever device. It is simply a better picture and experience than the cinema, for free.

I download and watch a new film every night of the week, and have dozens of TV series to binge watch. I haven't bought a DVD in 10 years, never bought a Blu-ray, don't pay for Sky/UPC, and I have no interest in paying for Netflix. All my films, TV shows, and music, for the past decade have been enjoyed for FREE, and I don't care. I just don't care. And until a Garda (ha!) shows up at my house to arrest me, I'm not going to care. Just like the stupid TV license.

Frigga_92

TheDoc wrote: »

Agree.

Although if your not in a UPC serviced area your ****ed, as Eircom absolutely rip you out of it.

In Donabate last year, I was being charged €67 a month for a 24mb ADSL line(decade old tech). Was faulty for 8 out of the 12 months. Ended up getting reimbursed for the 8 months, and paying €20 a month for the remaining 4. Wouldn't go near them ever again, but unfortunately if you live in non UPc catchment your short on options,since it will all be Eircom lines anyway.

No.1 criteria now for houses etc. for me, is that it needs to be a UPC catchment area. I literally moved last March because of it, moving back to a UPC enabled area.

Even UPC's much advertised price hike recently. I rang up and they bumped my package, and kept me on the same rate I was paying before.

240mb Fibre broadband, unlimited lan and mobile calls anytime. €45 a month.

It's a right pain where we are because UPC is available about 5 miles down the road from us at a decent speed

techdiver

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

I laugh when people who don't understand torrents say things like, "I'd rather pay to see something in the cinema, with that experience, than watch a shaky camera record on my laptop." Yeah, pirates who like quality are downloading 20+ GB 1080p Blu-ray remuxes, and watching them on their huge TVs, through their WDTVs or whatever device. It is simply a better picture and experience than the cinema, for free.

I download and watch a new film every night of the week, and have dozens of TV series to binge watch. I haven't bought a DVD in 10 years, never bought a Blu-ray, don't pay for Sky/UPC, and I have no interest in paying for Netflix. All my films, TV shows, and music, for the past decade have been enjoyed for FREE, and I don't care. I just don't care. And until a Garda (ha!) shows up at my house to arrest me, I'm not going to care. Just like the stupid TV license.

While I agree in some ways, I still think the cinema is the best experience (and I have a dedicated home cinema room in my house). You will only really get the blu-ray remux's after the blu-ray release in most instances. So you would have to wait for in or around 6 months between cinema release before a decent 1080op quality copy of a movie is available for download.

I downlaod a lot of movies, but for the big action movies etc, i always go to the cinema. i will download them to watch them again, but I have already paid the cinema for them. I'm sure many downloaders are the same.

VinLieger

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm sorry - but that's not true.

Only 1 in 10 Android games are legit. 9 in 10 are pirated. And these are games that cost less than 1 eur.

How much cheaper does it need to be?
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/02/android-market-game-piracy

(Many) People pirate because they want to.

Okay explain this then

https://torrentfreak.com/file-sharers-buy-more-movies-121018/

Study after study has revealed people who pirate spend and legally own more content than those who don't pirate.

Also in many cases pirated games are used to demo a game and they then go ahead and purchase it.

http://kotaku.com/5864996/these-guys-think-piracy-is-ok-because-it-leads-to-sales

Then theres the argument that piracy is killing the movie and musc industry which is pushed by lobbyists and is also complete bullsh1t

https://torrentfreak.com/online-piracy-is-not-hurting-music-revenues-european-commission-finds-130318/

https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-isnt-hurting-the-entertainment-industry-121003/

Allyall

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Picked up today in both the Indo & the IT

Over 36,000 people illegally watch films and TV online every day in Ireland, according to new research. And one in five adults have illegally accessed content in the last 12 months.

European Union

In Europe, the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) has ruled that it is legal to look at content (copyrighted or otherwise) online.[2][3] The ruling relates to the British Meltwater case settled on 5 June 2014.[4]
The judgement of the court states that: "Article 5 of Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society must be interpreted as meaning that the copies on the user’s computer screen and the copies in the internet ‘cache’ of that computer’s hard disk, made by an end-user in the course of viewing a website, satisfy the conditions that those copies must be temporary, that they must be transient or incidental in nature and that they must constitute an integral and essential part of a technological process, as well as the conditions laid down in Article 5(5) of that directive, and that they may therefore be made without the authorisation of the copyright holders."[5]

http://bgr.com/2014/06/05/streaming-movies-and-tv-shows-for-free/
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141026/06343628941/eu-court-justice-says-embedding-is-not-infringing.shtml
http://www.digital-digest.com/news-63934-Watching-Pirated-Streams-Is-Legal-Rules-EU-Court.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/are-streaming-sites-legal-2014-4?IR=T

VinLieger

OSI wrote: »

I love the comments of "If I could get it legitimately easily, I would, but it's easier to torrent". No, it's not. We've had iTunes for years, we now have Spotify, Netflix, Google Play, Amazon and many many more that will all provide you with the content at the press of a button as quick as your internet will allow. Stop trying to justify your actions and just admit you don't want to pay for it.

I dont pirate music I pirate movies and TV tell me where I can access exactly what I want whenever I want for movies and TV and ill agree im wrong.

Btw Netflix isn't the answer just to give you a hint, even using a vpn to access the american store isn't anywhere near what needs to be made available to customer's

gandalf

TBH over the years I have ended up buying more music from bands because I downloaded their content off the internet first. If it turns out to be something I like then I will invest and give them recognition for that. I own thousands of films, again some I would never have looked at if it wasn't for me downloading them or reading reviews from people who did. I think if the big studios stood back, untwisted their knickers and looked at the big picture they might realise that a more open, transparent and progressive policy would reap bigger rewards for them and they wouldn't have to waste resources on restricting access to content.