Vectra or Avensis

Kruganomics

Hi, looking for some advice from the experts on here.

My Mrs killed our car last week, 04 Hyundai Accent GLS, icy roads in the morning resulting in the car being a write off, everyone's ok so thats the main thing. We were looking to upgrade in the coming summer as two becomes three clearly a bigger car would be needed. This just speeds up the process.

So to our particulars;

Our max budget is 4000
Looking towards diesel as there is an 80 km round trip to work (reducing to 60 km next year due to Mrs maternity and my commute being 30 km each way)
Thinking 2 ltr or 1.9 diesel for comfort on the commute and there are significant hills involved (we live in Wicklow)
Sooner would be better but I have the use of a borrowed car so time pressure not as great as it could have been thankfully, so can wait a few weeks if necessary.

So far my research has led me to either a Toyota Avensis 07 or an Opel Vectra 07. There seems to be a few of these in our price range, and we like both machines. What I'm looking for here is some advice as to which would be better and why? Also what specs should I look out for?

Are there any alternatives I should consider?

I have seen some 07 Mondeos but I've heard they have reliability issues with that model, is there any truth to that? Also Peogeot 407s but I'd prefer either the Avensis or Vectra to those.

Any comments or thoughts would be a great help. Thanks in advance!

bazz26

On that budget you could be looking at some well tired examples especially the Avensis.

Something a little left field but might be worth looking at. They have a zero credible image which means they are cheap enough to buy these days:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-sonata-diesel/8248962?offset=2

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/07-hyundai-sonata-2-0-diesel-automatic-nct-02-17-/8428183?offset=5

Kruganomics

bazz26 wrote: »

On that budget you could be looking at some well tired examples especially the Avensis.

Something a little left field but might be worth looking at. They have a zero credible image which means they are cheap enough to buy these days:


Thanks for the reply Bazz! I've been reading other threads and noticed you are a wealth of knowledge so was hoping you'd comment!

For me they're not that left field. Have driven two Hyundais previously, could not fault either one and I've found much better value when buying due to their image. But not so much this time around. In the same price range I can get an Avensis or Vectra with similar milage and with all else held constant would it not be make more since to opt for one of these as I would imagine they would hold their value more so than the Hyundai?

Also would not be unsure about an automatic, is there a downside to having one other than making the driving experience much more boring?

P.S. It wont let me post links to adds for these as I'm a new user

bazz26

Vectras don't have a great image either but the 1.9 Diesel engine is a Fiat unit and generally a good unit. They do like flywheels though. Personally I could not live with the Vectra's interior, I know the Avensi's interior is no work of art either but it's a bit more bearable imo.

Also Avensis diesels of that age are not without problems, they are generally reliable but can suffer from injector problems and like I said a sub €4k one could be well driven at this stage. Good ones tend to fetch top money.

Regarding manual v auto, well that's a personal choice. An auto can be more relaxing to drive depending on the road but it might use a little more fuel. The Sonata's auto box is probably not brilliant either but I'd drive both manual and auto to see which one is nicer before ruling an auto out. Another advantage of the auto is that there is no flywheel to worry about having to replace.

AMKC

I say if your going to be driving up and down hills and back roads all the time then you would be better getting a manual as an auto would be harder on fuel and might no change up or down when you want it to at the hills.
I would go for the Vectra over the Avensis but the best way to decide which one you want to have is to go and drive them. What about having a look at a big Kia saloon the Magentis. Its basically a Hyundai Sonota with a Kia badge. There is one on Autotrader for over a little over what your thinking of spending. Maybe you would be better buying the Hyundai do if you did decide to go for one of the two.

Or what about this I quite like these myself there a bit different and definitly left field. This one is on 08 one and at a dealer in Dublin. Worth checking one out.

http://www.autotrader.ie/browse-used-cars/chevrolet/epica/used-2008-chevrolet-epica-2-0-ls-dublin-fpa-128814213427919630

bazz26

That's petrol though and about appealing as a dose of the clap. You couldn't give them away.

corsav6

A friend of mine just brought a Vectra in from the UK. 08 SRI with 84k on the clock, €3800 will have it on the road with tax and test over here.
08 is a lot less to tax so worth going for.

Kruganomics

Will definitely look more into the Sonatas, are there any specs that are particularly good?

Also any comment on Vectra Specs, one I see is CDTI and another SRI. I personally dont mind the interior but have yet to drive one so that may change.

Also the Avensis I saw is D4D, any comment on this?

It seems there is a big drop in tax from 07 to 08s. I assume this has got to do with emissions? Do you think theres anything out there we could get an 08 model in a similar class with our budget? or if we could stretch our budget would it be worth the extra outlay at the start for the lower tax?

Thanks for your comments, you've been really helpful.

Leonard Hofstadter

bazz26 wrote: »

That's petrol though and about appealing as a dose of the clap. You couldn't give them away.

+1, plus it's a six cylinder engine so it will be even worse than the average 2.0 litre petrol for fuel consumption. As much and all as I love six cylinder engines (especially a straight six like the Epica's six pot engine is), I wouldn't touch an Epica with a bargepole.

Duke O Smiley

In my opinion - a Sonata of the same vintage would be a better buy. I'm not one for generalisation, but chances are a €4k Irish 07 Avensis diesel will most probably not be a great example. The Sonata on the other hand isn't as common but a fairly decent example could be picked up for closer to your budget. An all round better car in my opinion. I find them a lot nicer than the Avensis.
How long are you hoping to hold onto the car for? If you plan to hold onto it for a long while then I wouldn't worry too much about it losing its value quicker than an Avensis or Vectra.

Leonard Hofstadter

Those model Avensis are a nice car as long as you avoid the nasty Aura and Strata versions. The Luna models aren't a bad place at all to sit in. If you're after a diesel, make sure you get a facelifted model (the one with the indicators in the wing mirrors), because that engine is more powerful, more economical and a lot more reliable than the older 2.0 diesel. It also has a six speed gearbox so it will be a better motorway companion, too.

Kruganomics

Most likely it will be held onto for a few years so depreciation shouldn't be as big a concern as I thought, yet it would still be nice for any capital investment to hold its value. I'm gone off the Avensis now having thought about it after listening to the advice; most likely sellers trying to jump ship before it sinks it would seem.

Still thinking about the Vectra though, so its that or a Sonata. Def would not go near a Chevrolet, as I said we commute quite a distance and I like to be able to afford food and clothing. Dont know much about the Kia Magentis, how does it compare to these other two?

Any other contenders?

Kruganomics

Also about importing from the UK. I've read that this would only be worth while if you were spending 20k+ as VRT can be so high. Does anyone know what they use to calculate VRT? I'm sure there would be a lot more choice in the UK market but time is a consideration as we have a borrowed car atm. However I suspect you could get a much higher spec there for the same sort of money here, but maybe there's not so much value to be had in my price range doing this. Also the Euro has just fallen on the back of Draghi's QE.

corsav6

Vrt on a 08 Vectra is less than 1k, and there's tons in the UK so you can pick up a decent example for not a lot of money.
SRI is a decent spec, cdti just means its diesel. I think its about €700 to tax a 07 Vectra or €380 for the 08. Those rates should apply to all makes not just the Vectra.

Duke O Smiley

Kruganomics wrote: »

Most likely it will be held onto for a few years so depreciation shouldn't be as big a concern as I thought, yet it would still be nice for any capital investment to hold its value. I'm gone off the Avensis now having thought about it after listening to the advice; most likely sellers trying to jump ship before it sinks it would seem.

Still thinking about the Vectra though, so its that or a Sonata. Def would not go near a Chevrolet, as I said we commute quite a distance and I like to be able to afford food and clothing. Dont know much about the Kia Magentis, how does it compare to these other two?

Any other contenders?

The Sonata and Magentis are pretty similar in a lot of ways. They are both powered by the 2.0 CRDi lump which is pretty good. They are both good all rounders; if a tad dull, but an Avensis or Vectra wouldn't be any much more interesting. You'll notice they are favored with taxi drivers around the country because they're comfy and reliable buses.

Leonard Hofstadter

The pound is worth about €1.32 at the moment, so importing is probably not the best option at the moment. Best to try and find a well looked after car here with a good spec.

AMKC

Kruganomics wrote: »

Most likely it will be held onto for a few years so depreciation shouldn't be as big a concern as I thought, yet it would still be nice for any capital investment to hold its value. I'm gone off the Avensis now having thought about it after listening to the advice; most likely sellers trying to jump ship before it sinks it would seem.

Still thinking about the Vectra though, so its that or a Sonata. Def would not go near a Chevrolet, as I said we commute quite a distance and I like to be able to afford food and clothing. Dont know much about the Kia Magentis, how does it compare to these other two?

Any other contenders?

The Epica also comes with a diesel engine.Its also a Korean made car as was prieviosly badged Daewoo and the Chevy took them over. I just put that other link up so you could see what the car is like. Its not a bad car may not be the most exciting but maybe it would be a car for someone who is not at all worried about what it will be worth in a few years. Maybe not the car for you.
What about something a lot more exciting and with a good diesel engine. An Alfa Romeo 159 JTD. Just make sure it has a full service history, that it has been well looked after by the last owner and is in good condition and you would have a really nice car.

Kruganomics

After another day of research I'm now thinking of either a Vectra, Sonata/Magentis or possibly a Peugeot 407.

What do people think of the 407? I've read on here some damning reports but they were all talking about the 1.6. I would be looking at the 2ltr HDI. Mostly looking at 07s but there is an 08 coupe that I like the look of. Budget might not cover it though with VRT.

The Alfa Romeo looks nice but can only see one that comes in my price range so far.

Kruganomics

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

The Sonata and Magentis are pretty similar in a lot of ways. They are both powered by the 2.0 CRDi lump which is pretty good. They are both good all rounders; if a tad dull, but an Avensis or Vectra wouldn't be any much more interesting. You'll notice they are favored with taxi drivers around the country because they're comfy and reliable buses.

How would a 407 measure up do you think?

Duke O Smiley

Kruganomics wrote: »

After another day of research I'm now thinking of either a Vectra, Sonata/Magentis or possibly a Peugeot 407.

What do people think of the 407? I've read on here some damning reports but they were all talking about the 1.6. I would be looking at the 2ltr HDI. Mostly looking at 07s but there is an 08 coupe that I like the look of. Budget might not cover it though with VRT.

The Alfa Romeo looks nice but can only see one that comes in my price range so far.

Turbo, clutch, DMF, DPF, injectors and broken PAS pumps all spring to mind when I read "407 HDI." They also have an issue with the heater control flaps stripping gears and you lose the ability to control temperature/direction of air and a bit of looking up online will show you how not cheap or easy this is to fix.

I see a couple of nice diesel 159s on Donedeal at the moment. In particular a 09 plater for €6500 in New Ross. If it isn't too small, the Volvo S40 might be worth a look too.

Kruganomics

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Turbo, clutch, DMF, DPF, injectors and broken PAS pumps all spring to mind when I read "407 HDI." They also have an issue with the heater control flaps stripping gears and you lose the ability to control temperature/direction of air and a bit of looking up online will show you how not cheap or easy this is to fix.

I see a couple of nice diesel 159s on Donedeal at the moment. In particular a 09 plater for €6500 in New Ross. If it isn't too small, the Volvo S40 might be worth a look too.

Enough said on the 407 then, I'll stay clear of them. The 159s are great looking machines but cant stretch the budget that far I'm afraid. Cant find the 09 your talking about. There is an 06 on donedeal we could afford but it seems underpriced so I'd be wary.

Duke O Smiley

Kruganomics wrote: »

Enough said on the 407 then, I'll stay clear of them. The 159s are great looking machines but cant stretch the budget that far I'm afraid. Cant find the 09 your talking about. There is an 06 on donedeal we could afford but it seems underpriced so I'd be wary.

Crap, forgot your budget was €4k. Search < Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTD 09' > on donedeal, €6500.

bazz26

To be fair turbo, DMF, DPF, injectors can all fail on modern diesels, not just one particular make or model.

Kruganomics

bazz26 wrote: »

To be fair turbo, DMF, DPF, injectors can all fail on modern diesels, not just one particular make or model.

So you wouldn't have a particular fear for the 407? How would you rate them? I think they're a good looking car was just worried about the reliability issues, a few threads on here had nothing good to say but they were talking about the 1.6 and mostly older versions circa 04-06. And theres the never buy a french car adage.

Duke O Smiley

Kruganomics wrote: »

So you wouldn't have a particular fear for the 407? How would you rate them? I think they're a good looking car was just worried about the reliability issues, a few threads on here had nothing good to say but they were talking about the 1.6 and mostly older versions circa 04-06. And theres the never buy a french car adage.

Ah that old chestnut, never buy a French car. Utter rubbish. By all means I would advise you to look at 407s, they are nice cars that handle great and are quite comfortable. I'm just saying, do your homework first and take a look online at some 407-specific problems, in particular the heater control issue as mentioned above.

bazz26

407s are hit and miss around reliability, electrics can be flaky in them and examples in your budget will tend to be ones that may need more money spent on them. Turbo, injectors, flywheels and dpfs are problematic on most modern diesel cars and most of these things are classed as consumables that have a limited life expectancy but 407s tend to be prone to other things too.

Your problem is that with your budget your looking at 8+ year old diesel cars which at this stage of their life no matter which make you go with there is no guarantee that they will not need more money spent on them in either the short or long term.

christy02

I have an 06 Honda accord diesel that has been reliable so far for me. 270k km up and still original clutch, flywheel and Turbo. Get 06/07 for your budget.

JohnBoy26

Defiantly an avensis over a vectra. It's a much better screwed together car and it's interior though bland, is a massive step up in quality from the nasty cheap interior in those vectras.

Kruganomics

bazz26 wrote: »

407s are hit and miss around reliability, electrics can be flaky in them and examples in your budget will tend to be ones that may need more money spent on them. Turbo, injectors, flywheels and dpfs are problematic on most modern diesel cars and most of these things are classed as consumables that have a limited life expectancy but 407s tend to be prone to other things too.

Your problem is that with your budget your looking at 8+ year old diesel cars which at this stage of their life no matter which make you go with there is no guarantee that they will not need more money spent on them in either the short or long term.

I'm afraid the budget is what it is,I wish I could stretch to 6.5k and grab an 09 alfa but alas its not to be this time. I know we're doing the mileage to justify a diesel but with our budget maybe I should consider a petrol. From what I've read I can get alot more car for a lesser outlay but with higher running costs. What would you think? or maybe stick with diesel and be v choosy on which ever model we like the best out of the vectra, avensis, 407, sonata etc. Just be careful to find one with full service history etc. There's a good guide to buying second hand on here by Limerick Man I'd use as my base roadmap.

Duke O Smiley

Kruganomics wrote: »

I'm afraid the budget is what it is,I wish I could stretch to 6.5k and grab an 09 alfa but alas its not to be this time. I know we're doing the mileage to justify a diesel but with our budget maybe I should consider a petrol. From what I've read I can get alot more car for a lesser outlay but with higher running costs. What would you think? or maybe stick with diesel and be v choosy on which ever model we like the best out of the vectra, avensis, 407, sonata etc. Just be careful to find one with full service history etc. There's a good guide to buying second hand on here by Limerick Man I'd use as my base roadmap.

Don't get the wrong idea, not every diesel is going to be a massive money pit. As above, most of these things are classed as consumables on modern diesels, there isn't a lot you can do to prevent them from failing.

AMKC

christy02 wrote: »

I have an 06 Honda accord diesel that has been reliable so far for me. 270k km up and still original clutch, flywheel and Turbo. Get 06/07 for your budget.

Sounds like one of them would be worth checking. As its a Honda it will go forever and they are quite a very nice car and classy too.

Leonard Hofstadter

Kruganomics wrote: »

So you wouldn't have a particular fear for the 407? How would you rate them? I think they're a good looking car was just worried about the reliability issues, a few threads on here had nothing good to say but they were talking about the 1.6 and mostly older versions circa 04-06. And theres the never buy a french car adage.

The never buy a French car adage is a load of nonsense generally. However, there are cars that conform to the stereotype for sure. Mid 00s Peugeots aren't the best put togethe for sure. The main problem with them really is that I just don't think the 407 is an especially nice car to travel in. Also, I wouldn't touch any car powered by the 1.6 HDi engine unless it's got a full and verifiable service history, which will be difficult in Ireland given our laissez faire attitude towards servicing let alone getting the book stamped etc...

Those engines are reliable so long as they've been serviced bang on time and with the correct grade oil.

JohnBoy26

AMKC wrote: »

Sounds like one of them would be worth checking. As its a Honda it will go forever and they are quite a very nice car and classy too.

They are a nice car but those early diesel accords aren't as reliable as you would expect from Honda. Unlike the petrols the diesel version can give it's fair share of problems. Timing chains in particular are a common failure on them.

bazz26

And as long as the OP is happy paying close to €1k per year in motor tax for the 2.2.

Independent1

Just curious OP as to what you went for in the end? I'm hoping to be on a similar hunt in the coming month or two so weighing up my options. This thread has been very informative.