Prison sentences/out on bail

SPM1959

I'm currently reading a Paul Williams book about Limerick gangsters that I got as an Xmas present. Now, I don't pay too much attention to the 'underworld' by reading Williams' columns or the Sunday World. One thing that does stand out to me in this book as somewhat shocking is the light sentences these criminals received while up and coming gangsters and how often they were released on bail by judges (and causing more violence when free).

I really think this is something that needs to be addressed if Ireland is to effectively tackle organised crime.

El Weirdo

SPM1959 wrote: »

I'm currently reading a Paul Williams book...

There's your first problem.

dar100

I know, the Anglo crew, were very well organised!! All given bail as well:)

SPM1959

El Weirdo wrote: »

There's your first problem.

Why?

SPM1959

dar100 wrote: »

I know, the Anglo crew, were very well organised!! All given bail as well:)

Different discussion isn't it?

They are not violent criminals.

usernamegoes

People are innocent until proven guilty therefore bail shouldn't be denied except in very limited circumstances.

Karl Stein

SPM1959 wrote: »

I'm currently reading

What's ya readin' for?

dar100

SPM1959 wrote: »

Different discussion isn't it?

They are not violent criminals.

Hardly!!! As Ms Thatcher use to say... A crime is a crime is a crime!!!

Sheep Lover

Since Paul Williams is great at giving out apt nicknames to criminals I've one for him.

The Bellend, sums him up nicely and everyone knows who you're talking about straight away.

Valetta

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Since Paul Williams is great at giving out apt nicknames to criminals I've one for him.

The Bellend, sums him up nicely and everyone knows who you're talking about straight away.

Don't think Paul Williams ever gave a criminal a nickname?

Jumboman

We need Vigilantism to sort out Irelands crime problem.

SEPT 23 1989

Dont pay your TV Licence or pay your taxes and see how the judges treat you,once you hurt the state the gloves come off,when the peasants are harming each other they dont give a fcuk

mikom

SPM1959 wrote: »

I'm currently reading a Paul Williams book about Limerick gangsters that I got as an Xmas present. Now, I don't pay too much attention to the 'underworld' by reading Williams' columns or the Sunday World. One thing that does stand out to me in this book as somewhat shocking is the light sentences these criminals received while up and coming gangsters and how often they were released on bail by judges (and causing more violence when free).

I really think this is something that needs to be addressed if Ireland is to effectively tackle organised crime.

Better off reading the Beano, TBH.

dar100

Valetta wrote: »

Don't think Paul Williams ever gave a criminal a nickname?

He gave the majority of them their nicknames

berger89

True that. 'Oh I sentence you to 10 years, with 9.5 suspended.' WTF.

The judicial system is crazy in this country. Looks at the 'Mericans. Ain't no foolin them!

PizzamanIRL

SPM1959 wrote: »

I'm currently reading

Jasus SPM, I didn't know you could read. Fair play.

Yellowblackbird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDFRhu9Kao8

My name is URL

SPM1959 wrote: »

Why?

He wouldn't have much of a career or purpose unless there was a thriving underworld.. only natural that he exaggerates and sensationalises things.

A man's got to be relevant :rolleyes:

I really think this is something that needs to be addressed if Ireland is to effectively tackle organised crime.

Do you just want people to be locked up for longer or for a few billion to be spent on more prisons?

The people that rant about and blame judges or the judicial system for the problem are the same ones that would oppose money being spent in the area.

It'd be laughable if it wasn't causing so much suffering to people.

Valetta

dar100 wrote: »

He gave the majority of them their nicknames

You give him too much credit.

He didn't give them their nicknames. They had them already.

Capt'n Midnight

If you are on bail you should be going out of your way to keep your nose squeaky clean.


I'd consider preventing judges from giving concurrent sentences for any crime committed while on bail. Otherwise there is the suspicion that a guilty perp might have anything to fear since the won't get any more time for lesser crimes. Totally unworkable because the judges could subvert such things. c.f the minimum sentencing for certain offences.

One measure of the justice system is the level of recidivism. If we aren't reducing this then we should be looking at alternatives. Especially since most crimes don't end in a conviction.

Sheep Lover

Valetta wrote: »

You give him too much credit.

He didn't give them their nicknames. They had them already.

He still uses them and spreads them out to wider domain, glorifying these gobsh1tes with stupid pet names. Pity their nicknames aren't "Spastic" Fitzpatrick and "Needle Dick" Magee, that'd be worth seeing on the front page

Valetta

Sheep Lover wrote: »

He still uses them and spreads them out to wider domain, glorifying these gobsh1tes with stupid pet names. Pity their nicknames aren't "Spastic" Fitzpatrick and "Needle Dick" Magee, that'd be
worth seeing on the front page

Glorifying them in who's eyes?

Sheep Lover

Valetta wrote: »

Glorifying them in who's eyes?

I see you'd like an argument, so I'm going with:

My eyes, I think they're all class lads

mikom

Valetta wrote: »

Glorifying them in who's eyes?

What was the most shoplifted book in Irish history?

The General

Work your answer out from that.

Valetta

mikom wrote: »

What was the most shoplifted book in Irish history?

The General

Work your answer out from that.

And who gave the general his nickname?

Hint- it wasn't Williams

Sheep Lover

Valetta wrote: »

And who gave the general his nickname?

Hint- it wasn't Williams

Who gave more recent criminals their nicknames?

mikom

Valetta wrote: »

And who gave the general his nickname?

Hint- it wasn't Williams

"Glorifying them in who's eyes" was your question.
You got it answered.... suck it up
Wanna play another round?

SPM1959

My name is URL wrote: »

He wouldn't have much of a career or purpose unless there was a thriving underworld.. only natural that he exaggerates and sensationalises things.

A man's got to be relevant :rolleyes:



Do you just want people to be locked up for longer or for a few billion to be spent on more prisons?

The people that rant about and blame judges or the judicial system for the problem are the same ones that would oppose money being spent in the area.

It'd be laughable if it wasn't causing so much suffering to people.

Longer sentences. One example I read in that book is an innocent young man was kicked to death. His attacker got six years. I know if it was my son, that sentence wouldn't be 'justice' to me.

I didn't say judges are to blame but longer sentences would be a deterrent to criminals and also keep them off the streets to commit more crime.

Also, I don't know much about the author, I haven't followed his career. The facts that he writes about speak for themselves though - killings, shootings etc.

Potential-Monke

My name is URL wrote: »

The people that rant about and blame judges or the judicial system for the problem are the same ones that would oppose money being spent in the area.

Maybe i'm picking you up wrong here, but i'm pretty sure the majority of people who give out about criminals getting bail, re-offending and either getting bail again or released on TR, would have no problems with more prisons being built.

berger89

Was watching a small piece on that morning show on ITV the other day and they were talking about how borstals should be re-introduced. I'd definitely be all for it. I think the guy speaking was a criminologist, and he was saying basically, how is sticking a convict in jail with a playstation and a gym going to teach them anything? in a borstal, they'd learn very quick how to behave and be a civil human being

My name is URL

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Maybe i'm picking you up wrong here, but i'm pretty sure the majority of people who give out about criminals getting bail, re-offending and either getting bail again or released on TR, would have no problems with more prisons being built.

Do a poll..

I guarantee you that most people will vote for more man power / more spaces / more commitment + more service cost reductions.

Jumboman

My name is URL wrote: »

Do a poll..

I guarantee you that most people will vote for more man power / more spaces / more commitment + more service cost reductions.

They should just shoot repeat sex offenders that would save a lot of money.

There is a guy down in cork who was convicted of rape on 4 separate occasions. Somebody like him should never walk the streets again.

mynamejeff

Jumboman wrote: »

They should just shoot repeat sex offenders that would save a lot of money.

There is a guy down in cork who was convicted of rape on 4 separate occasions. Somebody like him should never walk the streets again.

should never walk again

johnnyskeleton

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you are on bail you should be going out of your way to keep your nose squeaky clean.


I'd consider preventing judges from giving concurrent sentences for any crime committed while on bail. Otherwise there is the suspicion that a guilty perp might have anything to fear since the won't get any more time for lesser crimes. Totally unworkable because the judges could subvert such things. c.f the minimum sentencing for certain offences.

Of the many things wrong with your post, judges must give consecutive sentences and that has been the law for over 30 years:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0022/sec0011.html#sec11

Also, any "mandatory" sentence will be imposed eg life for murder, 10 years for second 15A drugs. I assume you are talking about the presumptive minimum, a measure designed to hit serious drug dealers but usually ends up putting drug mules in jail.

Especially since most crimes don't end in a conviction.

What the what?

nxbyveromdwjpg

Valetta wrote: »

Don't think Paul Williams ever gave a criminal a nickname?

"The Tosser", "The Penguin", "Babyface", "Fatpuss" etc.

Paul Williams is a typical bottom feeding sensationalist tabloid plank, a useless excuse for a journalist.

He's also one of those named in the Dail for having had his penalty points quashed by his Garda buddies. Wonder if we'll see a book about that soon?

Jumboman

nm wrote: »

"The Tosser", "The Penguin", "Babyface", "Fatpuss" etc.

Paul Williams is a typical bottom feeding sensationalist tabloid plank, a useless excuse for a journalist.

He's also one of those named in the Dail for having had his penalty points quashed by his Garda buddies. Wonder if we'll see a book about that soon?

There was also the "The Young General" who was supposed to be an up and coming criminal.