Bad car on ice, Advise re change of car please

CJmasgrande

Myself and my wife have been driving a BMW 2006 petrol 2litre from new. We love the car we have two teenage boys who very rarely travel with us in it only usually when travelling to the airport on annual holidays and they are now at the age where they will be getting their own cars

The biggest issue that makes me want to replace the car is that we live in a rural hilly area and this causes problems every winer with ice or snow on the roads. Today my wife abandoned the car and she was totally upset and even crying as the car could not get over the slippy hill yet every other car on the road sailed over.

I was told some years ago that our type of BMW performs very poor on ice because of it's rear wheel drive system.
I would appreciate any thoughts or advice on what car we should get keeping in mind must be good on slippy ice hills and our mileage is average

bazz26

If the only reason you are thinking of changing cars is because of Wintery conditions then have a look at buying a set of winter tyres and steel rims, have them fitted to the car from about November to March each year. Winter tyres will perform better than summer tyres in these situations and provide better grip.

However if you think that is not sufficient then maybe changing to some sort of SUV with 4wd and higher ground clearance might be the way to go.

CJmasgrande

bazz26 wrote: »

If the only reason you are thinking of changing cars is because of Wintery conditions then have a look at buying a set of winter tyres and steel rims, have them fitted to the car from about November to March each year. Winter tyres will perform better than summer tyres in these situations and provide better grip.

However if you think that is not sufficient then maybe changing to some sort of SUV with 4wd and higher ground clearance might be the way to go.

The set of run flats and alloys hat are on the car are worth at least a 5th of the total car value so I don't think it makes sense to go changing wheels and tyres.

bazz26

Changing cars ain't going to be cheap either. What size wheels are on the car?

Tabnabs

Take a look at Subaru, most of their models are AWD. You're Mrs will be pulling the BMWs out of ditches next winter

CJmasgrande

bazz26 wrote: »

Changing cars ain't going to be cheap either. What size wheels are on the car?

I don't mind spending money on a replacement or even a brand new. I just don't think its sensible to pour money into a car that has now depreciated in value so much that changing wheels and tyres would not really warrant the outlay.

The car is all original from new so it has the standard alloy BMW wheels and standard run flats I think the standards for the 3 series are 16 inch?

Mycroft H

I think its madness only to go spending money on a new car when new tyres will do.


But look it's your money and if you just want a new car then go for it. Second on the Subaru, the legacy is a lovely car.

ednwireland

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I was told some years ago that our type of BMW performs very poor on ice because of it's rear wheel drive system.
I would appreciate any thoughts or advice on what car we should get keeping in mind must be good on slippy ice hills and our mileage is average

used to work for a company with an office in munich, guess what all those rear wheel drive beemers had no problem getting to ski resorts in the alps (winter tyres !) if you want to change your car do but it wont be much better on ice untill you equip it for those conditions.
i live 2 miles up hill in donegal plenty of days when the roads like a toboggan run barely notice it with winter tyres on.

(oh by the ways you will still slide on winter tyres on sheet ice - just not as much definitily makes getting to work a lot less stressful )

Special Circumstances

Audi quattro maybe if you want another option close to your BMW.
Although I'm happy in my Subaru, even with AWD you will still still run into trouble, depending on conditions with standard summer road tyres.

I'd definitely look into new tyres or even snow socks for your current car.

CJmasgrande

I will look into winter tyres straight away, sounds like this is the solution, it's just mad when you spend huge money on a new set of run flats and then are told they are useless on the ice ,

If I switch to a winter tyre should I store the sumner ones and change every season? I never came across this practise before my father before never did this

Kevin McCloud

Winter tyres on ice are useless, studded tyres for ice.

talla

I drive a F01 730D (rear wheel drive and heavy car) and got my winter tyres put on last Tuesday by luck.
I drove from Athlone to Donegal in tracherous conditions on Tuesday night in blizzards and freezing fog and didnt have one issue with control or grip - I sailed by plenty of smaller cars and front wheel drive cars that were stuck on hills and roundabouts.

I live in Letterkenny and while the other half's Octavia couldnt get out of the estate due to it being on hill along with most of the neighbors, I hadn't an issue all week.

Iompair

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I will look into winter tyres straight away, sounds like this is the solution, it's just mad when you spend huge money on a new set of run flats and then are told they are useless on the ice ,

If I switch to a winter tyre should I store the sumner ones and change every season? I never came across this practise before my father before never did this

Yes, its a quick job to swap the tyres over if you keep the winter set on steel rims, realistically you only need them for a couple of months and then back to your alloys and run flats for the rest of the year. Winter tyres are not ice tyres but will help out in other bad conditions, with ice nothing bar studded tyres will make a major difference but only if you are driving on nothing but ice and/or compacted snow.

It's a common practice in places with worse weather then Ireland normally has but it's becoming more of a thing here too as people start to have some cop on, the habits your father developed were in a very different time with very different cars from what is currently available.

bazz26

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I will look into winter tyres straight away, sounds like this is the solution, it's just mad when you spend huge money on a new set of run flats and then are told they are useless on the ice ,

If I switch to a winter tyre should I store the sumner ones and change every season? I never came across this practise before my father before never did this

Run flat tyres have nothing to do with it. Your car is rear wheel drive on summer tyres which struggles to get grip driving on snow/ice. Yes you can rotate between summer and winter tyres seasonally. Winter tyres are most effective if temperatures are below 7c so normally November through to end of February or early March. Your cheapest option is to buy either a second hand set of steel rims to fit the winter tyres on and switch them every winter or take off the summer tyres and put the winters on the existing alloy wheels. Another plus side is that your summer tyres will have less wear on them during the winter months the winter tyres are on.

billie1b

CJmasgrande wrote: »

The set of run flats and alloys hat are on the car are worth at least a 5th of the total car value so I don't think it makes sense to go changing wheels and tyres.

My runflats and rims (17inch) on my BMW 2005 RWD were a disaster, took them off after a few months and changed to all season tyres, haven't had any problems on the windy, hilly backroads I take to work. A newer car will cost more than changing the tyres from runflats to ordinary

RootX

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Winter tyres on ice are useless, studded tyres for ice.

I used to think the same but evidence of the opposite has changed my mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

heroics

I had an IS200 in the snow about 3/4 yeasr ago. It was rear wheel drive as well and useless. Got a set of winter tyres and transformed the car. I would recomend you try winter tyres. lot cheaper than a new car

CJmasgrande

I called my local tyre dealer he doesn't sell run flat winter tyres.

The regular winer tyres are €80 each he said I only need them on the rear wheels as its rear wheel drive.

I was earlier stressing about run flats as the has no spare which is standard for run flats and they are linked to the electronics on the dash, the run flats are also a lot more expensive and we always kept run flats on it from day 1 from new.

micks_address

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I called my local tyre dealer he doesn't sell run flat winter tyres.

The regular winer tyres are €80 each he said I only need them on the rear wheels as its rear wheel drive.

I was earlier stressing about run flats as the has no spare which is standard for run flats and they are linked to the electronics on the dash, the run flats are also a lot more expensive and we always kept run flats on it from day 1 from new.

From what I've read you shouldnt mix winter and summer tyres, and you should put a set of 4 on the car rather than just the driving wheels..

braking will be inconsistent on the four wheels so can be dangerous..

bazz26

The electronics on the car will work fine with wither run flats or non run flats. All you have to do is reset the tyre monitoring system when the tyres are changed or tyre pressure changes.

Personally I'd not mix run flats and non run flats though, they have different characteristics so the car's handling might be off a bit, some people though will tell you it will be fine. Just remember that you don't have a spare wheel if switching to non run flat tyres.

spyderski

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I called my local tyre dealer he doesn't sell run flat winter tyres.

The regular winer tyres are €80 each he said I only need them on the rear wheels as its rear wheel drive.

Go to another tyre dealer.

ednwireland

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Winter tyres on ice are useless, studded tyres for ice.

yep you carry on beleiving that. ok if you hit a patch at 80kmh on a bend nothing is going to save you but..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

my corolla never used to have much of a problem in snow, narrow (high profile tyres)
i think the prevelance of very low profile tyres esp. on audi bmw isnt helping.

i used to think that i didnt need them, until i tried them

Kevin McCloud

RootX wrote: »

I used to think the same but evidence of the opposite has changed my mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

ednwireland wrote: »

yep you carry on beleiving that. ok if you hit a patch at 80kmh on a bend nothing is going to save you but..............

Im not trying to tell any one how to suck eggs, i am just going off my own experience not what youtube is telling me. No wonder there are so many crashes when people think winter tyres give road holding capability on ice.

RootX

Perhaps you're just a bad driver friend.

bazz26

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Im not trying to tell any one how to suck eggs, i am just going off my own experience not what youtube is telling me. No wonder there are so many crashes when people think winter tyres give road holding capability on ice.

It would be interesting to see statistics showing what percentage of these cars were fitted with winter tyres.

Drift

Herself has a three series and for the week or two of snow/ice we get every couple of years she just makes sure she has a lot of weight in the boot.

It's not ideal and nowhere near as good as winter tyres but it does make a serious improvement!

(A new one will be expensive but I have a personal love of the AWD Subaru Forester or AWD Volvo XC90 - of course I've driven neither and cannot afford either .... but still!!! )

spyderski

Winter tyres will make a huge difference. This is due to a combination of tread pattern and rubber compound. Whether they are run-flat or not has no impact on grip.

I've driven powerful rear-wheel drive cars (Mercedes & BMW) to/from Ski resorts and never had issues. In Southern Germany/Austria it is mandatory to have winter tyres on your car in winter months. The difference it makes is pretty incredible - the first time I drove with them I could not believe the levels of grip on surfaces which would render the same car immobile on summer tyres.

They are, however, not designed for sheet ice. Sure they will perform better on ice than summer tyres due to the rubber compound, but as another poster said, Ice spikes or chains are the only way of achieving good traction on ice.

spyderski

I was out on the mountain bike (with Ice-spike tyres) in Wicklow at the weekend. Came to a point where a car was stuck on an incline covered in sheet ice, with Fire brigade and civil defence guys sliding around on the road trying to help.

I rode on and met a woman in a mitsubishi 4x4 , who I warned to turn back and take a different route as the road was frozen to the point that you couldn't even walk on it, let alone drive. She said "but this is a four wheel drive, I'll be fine". What difference she thought that would make on a 10% incline that was frozen solid I don't know. Hope she didn't do much damage.

wotswattage

Don't forget to put a spare in if you lose the run flats!

Larbre34

Throwing the baby out with the bath water by selling the car seems OTT. Only a car with 4WD and studded or spiked narrow tyres will go well in sheet ice.

FWD is a better bet generally because of the weight of the engine over the driven wheels, so either an Audi or a set of winter tyres for you.

mister gullible

Best 2 wheel drive ever made on ice --- Alfasud. Unfortunately they are almost all just rusty stains in the ground by now.

Mycroft H

mister gullible wrote: »

Best 2 wheel drive ever made on ice --- Alfasud. Unfortunately they are almost all just rusty stains in the ground by now.

Why? Just curious!

Odyssey 2005

Because the bodies were made by bachelors and rotted away.:D

Special Circumstances

Alfsud? Bachelors? Ice? Rust? Even this thread is sliding off course ;-)

Odyssey 2005

Op have you considered all season tyres .iv been using them for years with no problems

CJmasgrande

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Op have you considered all season tyres .iv been using them for years with no problems

I think my existing tyres are supposed to be all season.

I was always contemplating buying a new car or new 2nd hand car this year as the BMW is now 9yrs old.

I know one thing next time I buy I will take into serious consideration the cars ability to climb icy hills

freddieot

Next time round when changing get yourself a 4 wheel drive. Plenty of them around at various price points. BMW even make some themselves and the Audi Quattros are good as has already been mentioned.

The benefit of an SUV is not just a better chance of no skidding in the snow \ ice. You also benefit from increased height in most cases and this helps when it stops snowing and starts flooding instead.

In the really bad snow of 2010 the 4x4 Sorento that I had back then just drove calmly past €100,000s worth of Mercedes, BMW,Lexus and Audi cars. It climbed extremely icy inclines with ease even when idiots decided to slow down or stop on them (the last thing to do). At work I could still park where I liked even though only a small part of the carpark was cleared of snow etc. All in all I'd never buy a standard car again. SUVs \ 4/4s are not perfect in every respect but they do come into their own in really bad weather.

If you want a quick solution for now then the winter tyre option will also make a significant improvement. Of course, nothing makes you invulnerable but everything helps.

mister gullible

Originally Posted by mister gullible View Post
Best 2 wheel drive ever made on ice --- Alfasud. Unfortunately they are almost all just rusty stains in the ground by now

Mycroft H wrote: »

Why? Just curious!

Balance, poise, low centre of gravity (boxer engine) , direct steering etc.
Elementary ;-)

CarpeDiem85

I had an accident in bad ice in December. I wrote my car off and by the grace of a guardian angel, I got out of the car unhurt. If I had the money, I would spend it on the safest car or 4x4 or whatever it was to drive in wintry conditions. You cannot put a price on your life in my opinion!

Nody

freddieot wrote: »

Next time round when changing get yourself a 4 wheel drive. Plenty of them around at various price points. BMW even make some themselves and the Audi Quattros are good as has already been mentioned.

The benefit of an SUV is not just a better chance of no skidding in the snow \ ice. You also benefit from increased height in most cases and this helps when it stops snowing and starts flooding instead.

In the really bad snow of 2010 the 4x4 Sorento that I had back then just drove calmly past €100,000s worth of Mercedes, BMW,Lexus and Audi cars. It climbed extremely icy inclines with ease even when idiots decided to slow down or stop on them (the last thing to do). At work I could still park where I liked even though only a small part of the carpark was cleared of snow etc. All in all I'd never buy a standard car again. SUVs \ 4/4s are not perfect in every respect but they do come into their own in really bad weather.

If you want a quick solution for now then the winter tyre option will also make a significant improvement. Of course, nothing makes you invulnerable but everything helps.

Talk about over kill; all that's needed is a decent set of winter tires (not all weather) and a basic understanding of driving in the winter (i.e. you're going to have increased breaking distance; your turning will not be as sharp if on snow/ice so slow down well in advance of a sharp curve etc.). Or do you think all people in Sweden, Norway etc. run around with four wheel drives or can't get up slopes?

triggermortis

Winter tyres will definitely help. Here in Switzerland everyone switches to winter tyres for the season (some insurance policies here insist on it- but it's not a legal requirement) and they help a lot.
I would also add a lot of weight in the back to help. Paving slabs are good and sandbags are even better (the sand can be used as extra help if you do get stuck).
My RX-8 was rear wheel drive and totally brutal on ice - couldn't get up the slightest incline on ice, so I feel your pain OP

Seweryn

CarpeDiem85 wrote: »

I had an accident in bad ice in December. I wrote my car off and by the grace of a guardian angel, I got out of the car unhurt. If I had the money, I would spend it on the safest car or 4x4 or whatever it was to drive in wintry conditions. You cannot put a price on your life in my opinion!

Would it not be easier, safer for the rest of us, and cheaper for you, if you just learn how to drive in the winter?

And I believe we should get people educated about the benefits of using winter tyres in the winter. Not making them compulsory (as in other countries), as we normally have mild winters, but if people understand how much safer it is to drive on winter tyres, they would start putting them on without being told...

Del2005

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I think my existing tyres are supposed to be all season.

I was always contemplating buying a new car or new 2nd hand car this year as the BMW is now 9yrs old.

I know one thing next time I buy I will take into serious consideration the cars ability to climb icy hills

Any vehicle with the proper equipment can climb an icy hill. Have a look at countries that have heavy snow or ice and the vast majority of people are in bog standard cars. Also something which people always seem to forget is that starting isn't the most important part of driving on ice/snow it's stopping/turning and a jeep is much more dangerous than a car to try and control, due to its weight and high centre of gravity.


If your loading the boot of a car with heavy weight to increase traction make sure you close all the rear seat belt, the clips holding most folding seats aren't very strong if you suddenly stop.

B00056718

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Winter tyres on ice are useless, studded tyres for ice.

There are winter tyres that will grip on ice without studs. I've seen tyres that will leave black marks on a frozen lake. Not very durable on tarmac though.

Last year a friend of mine had a set of some new model Pirelli tyres that had glass fiber in them. Grip on the ice was incredible. Not so good in deep snow as the threads were packing up on low speeds. Each type of tyre has it's purpose. Do your research before purchasing them.

Kevin McCloud

B00056718 wrote: »

There are winter tyres that will grip on ice without studs. I've seen tyres that will leave black marks on a frozen lake. Not very durable on tarmac though.

What make tyre are they?

Stallingrad

A front wheel drive car with winter tires will have more grip than a 4WD with summer tires.

CarpeDiem85

I don't think I'd like to be in a car that had heavy objects in the boot especially if it crashed and overturned. If you can any passengers they'd be doomed, especially in estate cars with a more open boot. I'm nervous even having groceries in the boot. I'd rather go with a safer car to drive all around.

CJhaughey

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

What make tyre are they?

Probably Nokian Hakka R2.
http://www.nokiantyres.com/winter-tyres/nokian-hakkapeliitta-r2/

colm_mcm

Del2005 wrote: »

If your loading the boot of a car with heavy weight to increase traction make sure you close all the rear seat belt, the clips holding most folding seats aren't very strong if you suddenly stop.

Really? Does this happen?

CJhaughey

colm_mcm wrote: »

Really? Does this happen?

I saw a car that had been in an accident with a bag of coal in the boot, the sack had punched its way through the back seat and snapped the front passenger seat. No-one was in the passenger seat so it was OK, but if there had been someone in that seat it may not have been so good.

Tabnabs

http://www.goodyear.eu/home_en/tires/passenger/ug-ice-2/ best winter tyre for 2014 as rated by Norwegian Auto-mobile Association.