Running a race without a permit

pconn062

So, the story is; My Dad is the groundskeeper at a local football (soccer) club and a committee member approached him recently saying that they wish to organise a road race to raise funds for the club (my Dad does a little running, hence why they approached him). My Dad then approached me to advise them on organising a race, as he doesn't know much about it (and neither do they), and I have helped organise a good few races in the past. So I've agreed to meet them and give them and overview of what's involved (and to be honest, try to convince them that there are easier ways to raise cash than running another road race).

I just need to get some things cleared up if anyone can help:

The first issue is a permit. Because they are not a registered athletics club or charity, an AI permit will cost €500. I imagine the first query I will get it "can we not just run it without a permit?". I have never been involved in a race without a permit so I'm not sure what this means.

Can you run a race on open roads without a permit?
Where does this leave you in terms of insurance?
Will the Gardaí attend a race that has no permit?
Are there limits on how many can enter the race without a permit?

Also, if they do decide to get a permit, do they need an athletics club to apply for the permit in conjunction with them? I know my own club has been approached several times to help a charity/gym/football club get a permit from AI.

Obviously, I will tell them they should get a permit, but after that it's up to them and I just want to lay out all the facts for them. The "race" if it goes ahead will be on public roads, some of which will be busy so some road management will be involved but without a permit I don't know if these things can be arranged.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Condo131

pconn062 wrote: »

Can you run a race on open roads without a permit?

Without appearing smart, yes you can. Anyone can run a race anywhere. Longer answer - Thankfully the days of people organising races on open roads, particularly ones that any self-respecting club wouldn't touch with a barge pole, appear to be coming to an end. Seemingly contradictory to that, we have more and more unlicenced events.

pconn062 wrote: »

Where does this leave you in terms of insurance?

Clearly an unlicenced event is NOT covered by AAI insurance. Furthermore any AAI member officiating at such an event is NOT covered by the AAI policy. Many unlicensed events organised by, say, tiddly-winks/debating clubs/for or on behalf of charities/non-running sports, rely on their own existing club/organisation insurance policies. This is fine if it is covered, but, without telling your insurance company, the event is probably not covered.

NB: If you organise anything and do not have an insurance policy in place, the organisers may be *PERSONALLY* liable - Ref; Bandon RFC case some 15 years ago (note this was a pure rugby claim - no race involvement whatsoever). If your insurance does cover you, get confirmation, IN WRITING! - from your insurers. If it ain't written down, you don't have it!

pconn062 wrote: »

Will the Gardaí attend a race that has no permit?

They might, if they're not happy. You *WILL* have to notify the Gardai - they may require you to complete one of their risk assessments, if you haven't already done your own. They now have their own forms for this.
Other than that, probably best to steer clear of them, without pissing them off. In my experience, some (thankfully few) come along on the day of the event and try to change everything, e.g. start, finish, route, steward locations etc. Our club once had the Gardai cover as lead car. In the middle of the race, the siren and flashing lights came and the squad car disappeared into the distance -ratfrmyol There was good stewarding in place, so there wasn't any real issue, but lesson learned - now have lead car and Gardai can go ahead of that if they want.

pconn062 wrote: »

Are there limits on how many can enter the race without a permit?

No. Risk assessment, insurance etc.

pconn062 wrote: »

if they do decide to get a permit, do they need an athletics club to apply for the permit in conjunction with them?

Yes. Club must sign-off. The club is then responsible for oversight on the event, even if they take no part in the organisation or running of the event. This is why many clubs are now declining to sign-off - they either have none, or don't want control of the event.

pconn062 wrote: »

The "race" if it goes ahead will be on public roads, some of which will be busy so some road management will be involved but without a permit I don't know if these things can be arranged.

Some road management??? The course will have to be assessed. Stewards will have to be in place at all major junctions and danger areas. You cannot go near a hospital or emergency services premises.

I could go on at length. Athletic clubs (should) know what they're doing organising a race. Non-athletic clubs simply don't have the experience of organising a race and, in my experience, have little idea of the risk areas. In general their stewards and officials play a pretty passive role, even in critical areas..... incident waiting to happen!

Some AAI info:
AAI Permit Licence page
AAI Road Race Handbook
AAI Medical Plan form

The AAI stuff isn't as good as International best practice, but it's a start.

Bottom line(s):
1. You want everyone to go home safely
2. Make sure that you are covered by insurance. You don't want to lose your house simply because you assumed that the event that you organised/helped in wasn't covered by your existing policy - if no policy.....say your prayers!

pconn062

That's a great help, thanks Condo. Just to reiterate, I am not organising the race, just want to give them the cold, hard facts of what's involved in organising a road race before they go ahead with it. As soon as I advise them, I will be stepping away and it's up to them after that. Will pass all this info onto them, and hopefully they will decide to host a table quiz instead!

doctorchick

Just to add a few things to the excellent reply of Condo. We were fortunate in Galway to have Peter Hanlon from McMahon Galvin who organise the insurance for AAI to give an excellent overview of insurance and whet it means in terms of a road race. Peter is touring county boards at the moment and so if he is not coming to a county board near you, then sending him a request to do so might be a good idea.

Things to add:-

1. Even if the organising body has its own insurance, then the AAI policy is still there also to protect its members if an athletics club/county board sign off on a permit. This may be useful in a claim if the other insurance is shown to be insufficient and you have to fall back on the AAI insurance. However, you should also be aware that the AAI insurance has a €500 excess for public liability claims and that the sponsoring club will be liable for that excess in case of a claim, and not the claimant.

2. The Gardai have no obligation to be there even in the case of having a permit. The only way you can absolutely guarantee to have the Gardai at your race, without them leaving is for you to pay them to provide their services. Now saying that, most Gardai will turn out to a road race in some capacity, particularly in community events, and it is fantastic to have them there. I have had to use them to sort out irate motorists that are adamant that they drive through the 1000 runners because they absolutely cannot be delayed for 2 minutes whilst the runners are passing by, and as such, as Condo says - do not piss them off. However if you have not paid for the official allocation of the Gardai to your event, and irrespective of you having a permit, if they get tasked to an urgent call they will leave your event.

3. AAI are now seeking a full risk assessment and medical plan to go with any permit application, and I have seen questions asked about sufficiency of medical cover in a race.

Hope that helps.

Kristopherus

There are other events that the soccer club could run without having to go to the expense of paying a hefty licence fee to AAI and a contribution to the Gardai. Sponsored walk within the grounds of the club, table quiz, Dublin Marathon, Sponsored Mountain climb, cycle run, etc., etc. These events may well raise more than a road run with all its expenses would. Just my 2 cents.

pconn062

Kristopherus wrote: »

There are other events that the soccer club could run without having to go to the expense of paying a hefty licence fee to AAI and a contribution to the Gardai. Sponsored walk within the grounds of the club, table quiz, Dublin Marathon, Sponsored Mountain climb, cycle run, etc., etc. These events may well raise more than a road run with all its expenses would. Just my 2 cents.

That's exactly what I want to say to them. Even if they want to go down a running route, one of the guys on the committee has a few grass fields and I think some sort of adventure/obstacle race would work out better with no need for road closures/permits.

doctorchick

Kristopherus wrote: »

There are other events that the soccer club could run without having to go to the expense of paying a hefty licence fee to AAI and a contribution to the Gardai. Sponsored walk within the grounds of the club, table quiz, Dublin Marathon, Sponsored Mountain climb, cycle run, etc., etc. These events may well raise more than a road run with all its expenses would. Just my 2 cents.

Never a truer word spoken. I remember one of our local athletics club hosting a 'race night' (the one with the horses, not the runners ) and making a significantly higher amount of money than hosting a race.

Condo131

doctorchick wrote: »

1. Even if the organising body has its own insurance, then the AAI policy is still there also to protect its members if an athletics club/county board sign off on a permit. This may be useful in a claim if the other insurance is shown to be insufficient and you have to fall back on the AAI insurance. However, you should also be aware that the AAI insurance has a €500 excess for public liability claims and that the sponsoring club will be liable for that excess in case of a claim, and not the claimant.

Thanks doctorchick. To clarify further, the AAI insurance only covers AAI events. It does NOT extend to cover events organised by third parties, even though they may have an AAI permit, through a club, e.g a Rugby club, with a permit, through their local AAI club, MUST provide their own insurance.

doctorchick

Condo131 wrote: »

Thanks doctorchick. To clarify further, the AAI insurance only covers AAI events. It does NOT extend to cover events organised by third parties, even though they may have an AAI permit, through a club, e.g a Rugby club, with a permit, through their local AAI club, MUST provide their own insurance.

You are correct that the third party must have their insurance, but Peter Hanlon did say that elements of the insurance provided by AAI are still there if an AAI registered club signs off on the event.

I just checked my minutes of the meeting and I have recorded the following: A question was asked that if a club signs off on a permit for an event that provides its own insurance then wouldn't that mean there was double insurance cover (third party and AAI) and the answer was 'Yes'. A follow up question was asked that in those cases where there was double insurance then who is liable. Peters reply was that the organising committee would decide which policy to notify, and the preference should be for the third party insurance, as this is being arranged specific to that event. However, his counter to this was that if the third party insurance was tested and failed the liability would come back onto the AAI insurance and the sponsoring club, including the €500 excess. What doesn't get covered in this case is if the race is being run as a 'for profit' race by a professional entity.