Bringing Tillage ground back into Grassland.... Any tips?

cjpm

This ground has been tillage for the last 20+ years. Was in Maize last year. Soil testing done but no results back yet. What can I be expecting?

Was thinking of 3000K gallons of cattle slurry, followed in April by ploughing, lime, fertilizer and grass seed.

Cattlepen

cjpm wrote: »

This ground has been tillage for the last 20+ years. Was in Maize last year. Soil testing done but no results back yet. What can I be expecting?

Was thinking of 3000K gallons of cattle slurry, followed in April by ploughing, lime, fertilizer and grass seed.

Plenty of farmyard manure if you can get it. Puts humus and life back the soil

Blackgrass

Blackgrass wrote: »

All the compost/muck/dung you can get hold of over slurry I would think as it's Om levels and structure will be the issue.
Well rotten broiler or Turkey as dawg would say? Is rocket fuel, just a soil sample first to see what have to play with?
Go dig 9 or 10 holes to 15/18" to check if
A. There's a plough pan as would nearly reckon so?
B. Depth of as easier to remedy before get a sward established but wait til dry at depth big thing.

Greengrass1

Blackgrass wrote: »

All the compost/muck/dung you can get hold of over slurry I would think as it's Om levels and structure will be the issue.
Well rotten broiler or Turkey as dawg would say? Is rocket fuel, just a soil sample first to see what have to play with?

Isn't there a soil test that can be done for OM levels?
10 yrs since we started here and 10 yrs of fym and parts of farm only really turning well now. Will take another yrs or two.
Try get as much compost as you can for it.
It will crown it

rangler1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Isn't there a soil test that can be done for OM levels?
10 yrs since we started here and 10 yrs of fym and parts of farm only really turning well now. Will take another yrs or two.
Try get as much compost as you can for it.
It will crown it

I had some fields the same, just keep piling on the FYM is the only thing to bring it back, I takes land a long time to recover from continuous tillage, cutting two cuts of silage will only make it worse.

Blackgrass

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Isn't there a soil test that can be done for OM levels?
10 yrs since we started here and 10 yrs of fym and parts of farm only really turning well now. Will take another yrs or two.
Try get as much compost as you can for it.
It will crown it

Yeah there is a few, easy diy is take a sample weigh it, dry in oven til completely dry weigh again then burn Om from sample and weigh last time. Weight of 'dry' sample and 'burnt' sample then worked out. % of weight loss is Om% iirc but Google first as not 100% on that

cjpm

Cattlepen wrote: »

Plenty of farmyard manure if you can get it. Puts humus and life back the soil

Don't have any dung available till the Autumn unfortunately. Will spread it then.

Blackgrass wrote: »

Blackgrass wrote: »

All the compost/muck/dung you can get hold of over slurry I would think as it's Om levels and structure will be the issue.
Well rotten broiler or Turkey as dawg would say? Is rocket fuel, just a soil sample first to see what have to play with?
Go dig 9 or 10 holes to 15/18" to check if
A. There's a plough pan as would nearly reckon so?
B. Depth of as easier to remedy before get a sward established but wait til dry at depth big thing.

How would I recognise this. Ground getting very hard after getting below a certain depth??

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Isn't there a soil test that can be done for OM levels?
10 yrs since we started here and 10 yrs of fym and parts of farm only really turning well now. Will take another yrs or two.
Try get as much compost as you can for it.
It will crown it

Thanks lads

Greengrass1

rangler1 wrote: »

I had some fields the same, just keep piling on the FYM is the only thing to bring it back, I takes land a long time to recover from continuous tillage, cutting two cuts of silage will only make it worse.

We took grassland this yrs that was neglected for 20 yrs and it is a lot easier to grow a crop of grass on it compared to the tillage ground

rangler1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

We took grassland this yrs that was neglected for 20 yrs and it is a lot easier to grow a crop of grass on it compared to the tillage ground

Could well believe it

Blackgrass

Basically I would expect somewhere at 6-10" you'll find a layer that was the most common plough depth and could very well be 'smeared' or compacted. Depends on if previous plougher was one to check these things or just dropp'er in and go. It will just be a thin line where soul will seem squashed together is best term with not much space between clods or particles etc and to check for compaction. Dig a few holes on headlands especially and just a few in 'land work'. Borrow someone who may be 'in the know' for 5 mins if not what I said is clear as mud

blue5000

OP how many years was it in maize?
It will probably have a lot of weeds from tillage, eg poppy, scarlet pimpernel, chickweed, fumitory, maybe cleavers and scutch. Might be worth your while to try kill some of these by ploughing early and let them green up before tilling or if scutch is present this will be your last chance to get rid of it.
What do you want in the grass, silage/clover/short term or long term ley? Undersown arable silage is an option if you need silage off it for next winter.

Your OM mightn't be too low especially if it got slurry with maize, had a field in tillage a long time here and OM was 9%, maize roots die off and rot in the soil adding OM, so it may not be all bad for you, compaction is a different story.

cjpm

blue5000 wrote: »

OP how many years was it in maize?
It will probably have a lot of weeds from tillage, eg poppy, scarlet pimpernel, chickweed, fumitory, maybe cleavers and scutch. Might be worth your while to try kill some of these by ploughing early and let them green up before tilling or if scutch is present this will be your last chance to get rid of it.
What do you want in the grass, silage/clover/short term or long term ley? Undersown arable silage is an option if you need silage off it for next winter.

Your OM mightn't be too low especially if it got slurry with maize, had a field in tillage a long time here and OM was 9%, maize roots die off and rot in the soil adding OM, so it may not be all bad for you, compaction is a different story.

Only 1 year Maize. Never considered Arable Silage. What does it entail? Would you recommend it?

frazzledhome

From my experience the soil samples may very well come back at high readings as tillage guys would be more aware of the importance of feeding the soil

Grass needs lot of life in the soil and copious and continuous coatings of dung is what's required.

If on light sandy soils compaction may not be a problem. On heavier soils you should consider a pan buster to break plough pan.

I've let out lighter land and have had no compaction. I let out some heavier clay soils in 2012 and wished I'd thought of digging a few test holes. It was in maize for 20 yrs and was completely compacted.

We reseeded and got it really level and a great strike of grass. It was short lived and as soon as heavy rain came the water just sat in the ground and grass didn't kick on. We had to go back in with a pan buster undoing all our good work.

The results were immediate but it made it really unlevel. This has somewhat rectified itself over time.

My key message is loads if dung and check the pan before you plough

grazeaway

If it's been in tillage for that long it'll need plenty of organic matter so lots of dung perferly straw bedding, however as it ll need to be breaking up a bit before it can be spread I would look at putting it into the field now and giving it a few months to break up before spreading.

Another thing if you don't have access to dung could be to buy some straw ( plenty of it left out in fields in big square bales) and spread that and throw the slurry on top before ploughing in.

Your going to be a while before the grass is thick enough for full time grazing so I would look at maybe look to put in arable silage by under sowing with barly. Spray for weeds and the barley will stifle any remaining weeds and the grass will come well after you cut for silage.

onyerbikepat

Why is the Pan such a big problem for grass and not for tillage?

Blackgrass

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Why is the Pan such a big problem for grass and not for tillage?

Shorter life span and not as deep rooting where as grass can be there for atleast 5 years? Regular/ annual cultivation can mask the problem ie. every years plough over ruts etc if caused and not much notice given. Heck of a lot easier to compact tillage round as not that mass of roots there but would reckon grass would have more than you'd think also?

cjpm

Another thing, the maize stumps are all still standing, all over a foot and some up to 18 inches high. Will the plough successfully bury them or should they be cut or broken first?

frazzledhome

cjpm wrote: »

Another thing, the maize stumps are all still standing, all over a foot and some up to 18 inches high. Will the plough successfully bury them or should they be cut or broken first?

Plough will manage

stretch film

Heard a few lads say maize was good for improving drainage due to long roots
.

cjpm

Got the results back. All index either 3 or 4 for P and K.

Lime needs between 2 to 4 tonnes to get to pH to 6.5

Blackgrass

cjpm wrote: »

Got the results back. All index either 3 or 4 for P and K.

Lime needs between 2 to 4 tonnes to get to pH to 6.5

Happy days who ever had it before kept in decent hearth, 2/4 tons total or per acre/ha?

cjpm

Blackgrass wrote: »

Happy days who ever had it before kept in decent hearth, 2/4 tons total or per acre/ha?

2 to 4 tonne per acre.

Delighted that P and K won't rob me. Going to lash out some cattle slurry when I get a chance. Won't be able to spread dung until the autumn.