Waterford Airport - what's the point?

fleabag

I'm flying to England at the end of February and was checking flights from Waterford a while ago. I need to go to Nottingham for a few days then visit the sibling in Manchester. Waterford Airport was perfect, fly into Birmingham, out of Manchester.

Went to book the flights - Manchester flight has gone. Just like that. It's either Birmingham or nothing.

Then went to check buses, my being reliant on public transport some of the time. The airport website provides a handy link to the Bus Eireann site but neglects to mention that no buses serve the airport! A regional airport with no public transport links :eek:

It was at that point I realized that Waterford Airport probably doesn't exist and is just like a mass hallucination perpetrated on the people of Waterford. I did phone the airport and got a message saying all the operators were busy - probably busy telling potential customers they'd be better off flying from Cork.

Well played Waterford 'Airport', well played.

drdeadlift

Sounds like a joke

dzilla

All the answers to your negativity are outlined in the following -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056796721

Flights to Manchester are now gone. Birmingham will be gone after March.

Don't know what the problem with the bus is. There are limited flights services on on alternate days, bus eireann won't run a route on it don't think there is anything the airport can do about it.

What exactly do you expect eh?

fleabag

It's not negativity, it's fact. I think Waterford Airport is perfectly placed between Cork and Dublin to pick up a rake of business, even running limited routes. This is not to mention the impact of tourism on the south east region as a whole. Instead tourists get diverted to Cork or Dublin.

One route and one route only is not acceptable. No public transport links is not acceptable. Someone is being paid to operate this so-called airport and is doing a sh*t job. Apparently Waterford Regional Airport Plc has 10 directors. You'd think one out of ten might be able to pull the finger out since it won't even be an airport after the end of March by the looks of things.

Despite the tongue in cheek first post, I am genuinely angry about this. Waterford and its people are not being served at all. What could should be a great resource is just a white elephant. What are TD's, Chambers of Commerce, Failte Ireland doing about this?

fricatus

fleabag wrote: »

It's not negativity, it's fact. I think Waterford Airport is perfectly placed between Cork and Dublin to pick up a rake of business, even running limited routes. This is not to mention the impact of tourism on the south east region as a whole. Instead tourists get diverted to Cork or Dublin.

Couldn't agree more.

fleabag wrote: »

One route and one route only is not acceptable.

What can the airport do though, other than try as hard as possible to get routes in? As far as I can see, they're already doing that. They managed to hold onto FlyBE for a while once Aer Lingus Regional pulled out - and they did so not because there wasn't a profit to be made, but because there was more profit to be made flying out of other airports. This is to my mind the key question.

fleabag wrote: »

No public transport links is not acceptable.

What do you think would happen if Bus Éireann started operating to Waterford Airport? The buses would be empty. Nobody arrives in Waterford expecting an onward bus service outside the terminal. They either have a car or get picked up. The adventurous few who fly in from Brum or Manchester for a weekend in somewhere different suck it up and get a taxi. We're not Amsterdam or Prague. If we ever get to the point where there are flights arriving hourly, or even more frequently, like in Cork, then you could expect to see a bus service. It will depend on demand though, and right now it's not there.

fleabag wrote: »

Someone is being paid to operate this so-called airport and is doing a sh*t job. Apparently Waterford Regional Airport Plc has 10 directors. You'd think one out of ten might be able to pull the finger out since it won't even be an airport after the end of March by the looks of things.

How do you know they're not doing a good job? I would have thought it's a very challenging environment to work in. We've an airport that can only serve a limited number of carriers, in an area badly hit by unemployment, during the worst recession in most people's lifetimes. Remember that traffic in Cork is also down by a huge amount, and yet Waterford still (as of now) has retained limited scheduled services. I'd remind you that at the height of the Celtic Tiger, we had flights to Faro and Amsterdam!

Scheduled services aside, Waterford handles quite a lot of private traffic (known as GA/general aviation I believe) and this contributes quite a lot of revenue, not to mention being a vital lifeline for the businesses who use their own planes. Don't forget either the fact that the airport has held onto the SAR helicopter base in the face of huge political pressure to downgrade services.

fleabag wrote: »

Despite the tongue in cheek first post, I am genuinely angry about this.

You're not the only one, believe me...

fleabag wrote: »

Waterford and its people are not being served at all.

What's new?

fleabag wrote: »

What could should be a great resource is just a white elephant.

I wouldn't agree completely with that - remember the general aviation and SAR base. Just because you and I can't fly to London, doesn't make the airport a white elephant. And remember that that phrase implies something that's been provided at great cost and great fanfare - hardly the case!

fleabag wrote: »

What are TD's, Chambers of Commerce, Failte Ireland doing about this?

I'd certainly like to know what our TDs are doing about it. Foxtrot Oscar by the looks of things. The Chamber of Commerce is just a business organisation, so I'm not sure what exactly they can do, other than promote use of the airport by their members. That would be a lot easier if there were scheduled services, so they're in a catch-22.

As for Fáilte Ireland, they can barely remember to put Waterford on their map, and they left us out of the Wild Atlantic Way, so I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for salvation from that quarter!

fleabag

Thanks for a well-constructed and informative post fricatus. Despite our differences, I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet. I can't get the hang of this quote thing and have had 2 goes already, so I'll just have to put my replies in as normal.

Lack of public transport - Bus Eireann is state funded and controlled. As part of a strategy to bring WA back into greater usage, they should have to provide buses to meet arrival and departure schedules. These services should be advertised on the WA site as with all other airports. God knows, there's not that many flights landing that all their buses are going to be tied up. I'm not the only one who would use this service if it was available.

How do you know they're not doing a good job? - I look at other small airports - Kerry and Knock for example - and they have way more routes. I could fly to Lanzarote or Liverpool from Knock! Granted that Knock probably gets loads of tourist traffic but Kerry is in a recession blackspot also. WA is about to lose their last route. That doesn't smack of great management to me.

GA and SAR - When WA ceases to be a functioning airport for scheduled flights, what's to stop them downgrading these services even more?

A white elephant - On 11 December 2014, Flybe announced it would cease operating to Waterford. Flights to Manchester and Birmingham would finish on 27 March 2015. On the same day, Waterford County council have granted a 350M phase runway extension, it is understood that this will be constructed in 2015. (Source Wikipedia). If that aint a white elephant, I don't know what it is!

Agree completely with your comments about TD's et al. And in contrast, a couple of years ago I flew to Spain on a cultural exchange funded by a regional body. We HAD to fly from Shannon to support the airport. This meant 3 flights to our destination but Shannon got the business and 20+ extra people on one flight alone. That's the kind of support the IDA and regional authorities should be giving to WA.

Lucena

I'm not an expert, but it's hard to see there being much demand for flights in and out of Waterford for the following reasons:

- Small population (around 70000 in the Greater Waterford Area according to Wikipedia)
- Not a big tourist destination (unlike Knock and Kerry)
- Two airports within two hours drive away providing a vastly superior choice of destinations and more frequent flights

The country can only support a limited number of airports, and Waterford seems to be at that limit.

TheQuietFella

The problem with Waterford Airport was that it had the 'Kevin Costner - Field of Dreams' mentality 'Build It & They will Come'

No transport to or from the airport, no decent facilities at the airport, a WWII airfield had more planning & thought put in to than our airstrip.

It's like everything in this city, people with small minds unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture.

Look at Galway for example, €126 million on a new port.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0113/672225-galway-harbour/

Cork's redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh. http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2014/1201/663842-pairc-ui-chaoimh-set-for-redevelopment/

The work done in this city over the last five years should have been done decades ago but never was.

The new racecourse at Tramore never completed but in my view should be shut down & moved away from Tramore but unfortunately the bigger picture won't be seen either.

Max Powers

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The problem with Waterford Airport was that it had the 'Kevin Costner - Field of Dreams' mentality 'Build It & They will Come'

No transport to or from the airport, no decent facilities at the airport, a WWII airfield had more planning & thought put in to than our airstrip.

It's like everything in this city, people with small minds unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture.

Look at Galway for example, €126 million on a new port.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0113/672225-galway-harbour/

Cork's redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh. http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2014/1201/663842-pairc-ui-chaoimh-set-for-redevelopment/

The work done in this city over the last five years should have been done decades ago but never was.

The new racecourse at Tramore never completed but in my view should be shut down & moved away from Tramore but unfortunately the bigger picture won't be seen either.

If only we had your vision Quiet Fella, I suppose you know how to get the funding to sort out the racecourse, airport, build a nice stadium here

wmpdd3

I thought Kavanaghs bus wen to the airport?

cookie.monster

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I thought Kavanaghs bus wen to the airport?

it does..!!! DUBLIN airport lol

Falcon L

Well you learn something new each and every day. There's an airport in Waterford. I never knew.

TheQuietFella

Max Powers wrote: »

If only we had your vision Quiet Fella, I suppose you know how to get the funding to sort out the racecourse, airport, build a nice stadium here

Thank you Max, I'll take that as a compliment!

When there is a quango to be formed with regard to all of the above, give me a shout!

Johnny901

fleabag wrote: »

"How do you know they're not doing a good job? - I look at other small airports - Kerry and Knock for example - and they have way more routes. I could fly to Lanzarote or Liverpool from Knock! Granted that Knock probably gets loads of tourist traffic but Kerry is in a recession blackspot also. WA is about to lose their last route. That doesn't smack of great management to me."

Kerry and Knock both have runways able to take jets that is why you can fly to Lanzarote ! In fact Knock's runway has taken a Boeing 747. With thanks to Monsignor James Horan for Knock and Dick Spring for Kerry.

"A white elephant - On 11 December 2014, Flybe announced it would cease operating to Waterford. Flights to Manchester and Birmingham would finish on 27 March 2015. On the same day, Waterford County council have granted a 350M phase runway extension, it is understood that this will be constructed in 2015. (Source Wikipedia). If that aint a white elephant, I don't know what it is! "

I presume this is to address that runway issue to take jets so something is happening, if the money is provided.

At least Waterford still has an airport, Galway ceased all scheduled flights a few years back. Another airport with a short runway.....are you seeing the trend here.

martin12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wenBNA3CMtc#t=275

A Qantas plane has made history,landing at a regional airport in New South Wales to become the first 747-400 in the world to land on a Runway just 1819m how long is the runway in Waterford

THEIRISHMOB

Waterford is an opportunity waiting to happen for someone!

Is there no Richard branson in Waterford?

With the population in Waterford, Kilkenny, Wexford, Tipp are you telling me there is no room for 3-4 flights to the UK each week?

If marketed and promoted correctly it is a goldmine.

The problem is scheduling return flights as no point flight to Stansted and not being able to return for 3 days...
So in order for this airport to work it needs a daily flight returning each evening.

I am sure that there is a solution with the right brains behind the airport.
Michael O Leary would find a solution pretty fast if he wanted to help as there is no doubt that there is the population to support it.

THEIRISHMOB

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

Waterford is an opportunity waiting to happen for someone!

Is there no Richard branson in Waterford?

With the population in Waterford, Kilkenny, Wexford, Tipp are you telling me there is no room for 3-4 flights to the UK each week?

If marketed and promoted correctly it is a goldmine.

The problem is scheduling return flights as no point flight to Stansted and not being able to return for 3 days...
So in order for this airport to work it needs a daily flight returning each evening.

I am sure that there is a solution with the right brains behind the airport.
Michael O Leary would find a solution pretty fast if he wanted to help as there is no doubt that there is the population to support it.

One other point. If you had a CEO that lost all your suppliers and left all your customers with no product what would you do?

Typical Irish attitude is to shift the blame to the airline for pulling out. Bull- if I was the CEO I would have a plan B & C but currently there is NO PLAN...!!!

SHOCKING MANAGEMENT.

cookie.monster

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

One other point. If you had a CEO that lost all your suppliers and left all your customers with no product what would you do?

Typical Irish attitude is to shift the blame to the airline for pulling out. Bull- if I was the CEO I would have a plan B & C but currently there is NO PLAN...!!!

SHOCKING MANAGEMENT.

they put all the eggs in the one basket and dropped the fcukin basket!!!

fricatus

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

One other point. If you had a CEO that lost all your suppliers and left all your customers with no product what would you do?

Typical Irish attitude is to shift the blame to the airline for pulling out. Bull- if I was the CEO I would have a plan B & C but currently there is NO PLAN...!!!

SHOCKING MANAGEMENT.

cookie.monster wrote: »

they put all the eggs in the one basket and dropped the fcukin basket!!!

Whoa there horseys for a sec... the scheduled services are only one part of what the airport does. As far as I understand it, it's holding its own when it comes to private aviation (a number of companies locally have or use private jets, and this is valuable income for the airport). Also there's the Coastguard helicopter base.

And even if we talk only of scheduled services, they have made an attempt at diversifying the range of carriers - remember that FlyBE came along before Stobart/Aer Arann/Aer Lingus Regional left.

Compare how badly other airports have done at a time when the climate for regional airports has never been worse (economy in the toilet, good new roads to Dublin, etc.), and you'll see that WAT hasn't done too badly - look at Galway and Sligo now.

Even Cork Airport has had very serious problems of late, though I've little sympathy there. The terminal building was way over the top. What was spent on the toilets alone would have built the runway extension at WAT. I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but probably not by as much as I think! :pac:

dzilla

fricatus wrote: »

Whoa there horseys for a sec... the scheduled services are only one part of what the airport does. As far as I understand it, it's holding its own when it comes to private aviation (a number of companies locally have or use private jets, and this is valuable income for the airport). Also there's the Coastguard helicopter base.

And even if we talk only of scheduled services, they have made an attempt at diversifying the range of carriers - remember that FlyBE came along before Stobart/Aer Arann/Aer Lingus Regional left.

Compare how badly other airports have done at a time when the climate for regional airports has never been worse (economy in the toilet, good new roads to Dublin, etc.), and you'll see that WAT hasn't done too badly - look at Galway and Sligo now.

Even Cork Airport has had very serious problems of late, though I've little sympathy there. The terminal building was way over the top. What was spent on the toilets alone would have built the runway extension at WAT. I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but probably not by as much as I think! :pac:

Nail on the head

dzilla

Good news coming later!!! Can't believe it!

road_high

dzilla wrote: »

Good news coming later!!! Can't believe it!

Never used WAT airport but would like to in the future. Any hint as to who/where?

road_high

fricatus wrote: »

Even Cork Airport has had very serious problems of late, though I've little sympathy there. The terminal building was way over the top. What was spent on the toilets alone would have built the runway extension at WAT. I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but probably not by as much as I think! :pac:

I think that accident in 2011 also didn't help the image of Cork airport. Sounds silly but a few people I know won't fly to/from there after that.

wellboytoo

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

One other point. If you had a CEO that lost all your suppliers and left all your customers with no product what would you do?

Typical Irish attitude is to shift the blame to the airline for pulling out. Bull- if I was the CEO I would have a plan B & C but currently there is NO PLAN...!!!

SHOCKING MANAGEMENT.

Well what do you say now after today's announcement?

Harry Palmr

Pesky airport management and their solutions to a problem! :pac:

fleabag

I am delighted with this news. I flew out of Waterford last week and found it a very pleasant experience. No problems getting in or out, doddle through security, very nice staff. There was a bit of a queue at the cafe but a very good cup of tea . Above all, there were none of the anxieties I usually have flying from bigger airports and worrying about baggage checks, queues and getting there on time.

On the way out I sat next to a guy who had been visiting his kids in Waterford. He was upset about the flights ending but I think he will be very pleased now as he lived in ... Luton! One guaranteed customer there anyway.

I flew back into Cork and sat next to another guy from Waterford. He had been over to Liverpool for the match with his 2 sons. Three more customers there - although he did say that Cork was as handy for him because he is in Dungarvan.

The point of this is to say that Waterford Airport is a great airport to fly out of with the bonus of no queues and a personal touch that is missing at lots of the bigger airports where you're just a unit on a conveyor belt. Including me, there were 4 people that would have easily as flown into Waterford Airport (if the flights were there) as Cork. I hope the flight to Luton marks the beginning of the recovery of the airport and I now look forward to flying from there again.

skaface

Great news regarding the new flights.
Flew to Manchester and Birmingham in
recent years from Waterford, no problems..
The one thing is if they could match Cork or
Shannon with prices, even have them a bit lower
I think plenty of people would travel from here..
But if you're getting a flight for €40 from Cork
and it's going to cost you €50 / €60 from Waterford, that's the big problem.

wellboytoo

skaface wrote: »

Great news regarding the new flights.
Flew to Manchester and Birmingham in
recent years from Waterford, no problems..
The one thing is if they could match Cork or
Shannon with prices, even have them a bit lower
I think plenty of people would travel from here..
But if you're getting a flight for €40 from Cork
and it's going to cost you €50 / €60 from Waterford, that's the big problem.

Your not comparing like with like, Cork price is flight only everything else is extra.
Waterford flight you get a 23kg bag in the hold and complimentary snacks and drink.
Factor in travelling time parking etc, Cork is outa the park

skaface

wellboytoo wrote: »

Your not comparing like with like, Cork price is flight only everything else is extra.
Waterford flight you get a 23kg bag in the hold and complimentary snacks and drink.
Factor in travelling time parking etc, Cork is outa the park

Fair enough, but maybe Waterford should look
into giving that option also .. Good news for
the area anyways, instead of the normal doom & gloom!!

fleabag

Just checked what I paid for the 2 flights - Flybe, Waterford to Birmingham €72, Aer Lingus, Manchester - Cork £84.99. Both booked at the same time about 4 weeks before travelling.
Cork is also 1.5 hours away for me and Waterford just 1/2 hour so Waterford is a no-brainer for me.

And I hate Aer Lingus.

katydid

skaface wrote: »

Great news regarding the new flights.
Flew to Manchester and Birmingham in
recent years from Waterford, no problems..
The one thing is if they could match Cork or
Shannon with prices, even have them a bit lower
I think plenty of people would travel from here..
But if you're getting a flight for €40 from Cork
and it's going to cost you €50 / €60 from Waterford, that's the big problem.

If it was only a difference of twenty euro, nobody would go to Cork. It used to be cheap, but before the London route went, it had got very expensive. In the mid nougthies, there were great offers, but they didn't last long. Plus you can get to Heathrow from Cork. Luton or Stansted are very out of the way and it costs another twenty euro to get back and forward from them.

dzilla

katydid wrote: »

If it was only a difference of twenty euro, nobody would go to Cork. It used to be cheap, but before the London route went, it had got very expensive. In the mid nougthies, there were great offers, but they didn't last long. Plus you can get to Heathrow from Cork. Luton or Stansted are very out of the way and it costs another twenty euro to get back and forward from them.

Are the trains in from stansted and luton that much more than the heathrow one?

katydid

dzilla wrote: »

Are the trains in from stansted and luton that much more than the heathrow one?

Oh yes. The Heathrow one is part of the Tube system, it's one end of the Picadilly Line. You pay the fare for the outer zone, which is not cheap, but cheaper than the transport from the other places. In my own experience, anyway.

questionmark?

katydid wrote: »

Oh yes. The Heathrow one is part of the Tube system, it's one end of the Picadilly Line. You pay the fare for the outer zone, which is not cheap, but cheaper than the transport from the other places. In my own experience, anyway.

Just picked a random day in May, the 11th, travelling with EasyBus from Luton Airport to Liverpool Street, the cost is £1:95 for most of the day. Travel time approx 60mins.

O Riain

questionmark? wrote: »

Just picked a random day in May, the 11th, travelling with EasyBus from Luton Airport to Liverpool Street, the cost is £1:95 for most of the day. Travel time approx 60mins.

Bus in London. Lol.

questionmark?

O Riain wrote: »

Bus in London. Lol.

Coach in London with limited stops, please spill the beans on why its LOL on that route backed by fact not presumptions.

reni10

What is the fastest way into a Central London Tube Station from Luton airport these days?

AviationUK

reni10 wrote: »

What is the fastest way into a Central London Tube Station from Luton airport these days?

The train from the Parkway station, train goes right through the centre of London out to the south coast from there

dzilla

questionmark? wrote: »

Coach in London with limited stops, please spill the beans on why its LOL on that route backed by fact not presumptions.

The EasyBus is grand. No frills, value for money. I would have no complaints about it.

reni10

AviationUK wrote: »

The train from the Parkway station, train goes right through the centre of London out to the south coast from there

How long does it take on the train and what is the first stop where you can hop onto the tube from it in central London?

Dum_Dum

reni10 wrote: »

How long does it take on the train and what is the first stop where you can hop onto the tube from it in central London?

Fastest Thameslink train is about 40-50 minutes I think.

Change at West Hampstead for North West London (Jubilee Line and North London Line (now called Overground))

The easiest interchange in central London is Farringdon for the Circle and Hammersmith & City. King's Cross was revamped a while back so the interchange might have improved.

Dum_Dum

O Riain wrote: »

Bus in London. Lol.

Mid morning going into London, which is when the morning flight arrives, should be OK. Getting back for the evening flight is another matter!

thomasm

Looks like its going well

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-single.php?cat=1&id=28243

The CEO of VLM Airlines says the response to their decision to fly on the Waterford-London/Luton route has been phenomenal.The Belgian-based Airlines will operate the Luton route 12 times a week in each direction beginning on Monday, April 27th and will also operate a four-times-weekly service between Waterford and Birmingham. Tune into WLR FM NEWS to hear the airline's CEO, Arthur White.

crazyman

thomasm wrote: »

Looks like its going well

The CEO of VLM Airlines says the response to their decision to fly on the Waterford-London/Luton route has been phenomenal.The Belgian-based Airlines will operate the Luton route 12 times a week in each direction beginning on Monday, April 27th and will also operate a four-times-weekly service between Waterford and Birmingham. Tune into WLR FM NEWS to hear the airline's CEO, Arthur White.

I was booking flights to and from London in July. All the €39.99 seats were fully booked out for each evening flight home from London for the week I was looking (last week of July). The only seats that were still available were for €98 or €312 (approx).
Either there were very limited €39.99 seats available to begin with, or there was a huge uptake. I hope the latter.

Musicman2000

crazyman wrote: »

I was booking flights to and from London in July. All the €39.99 seats were fully booked out for each evening flight home from London for the week I was looking (last week of July). The only seats that were still available were for €98 or €312 (approx).
Either there were very limited €39.99 seats available to begin with, or there was a huge uptake. I hope the latter.

I think the aircraft they are using is a Fokker F50, so it has seating for 50 pax . Its going to be very limited trying to get cheap seats especially during peak season .

crazyman

Musicman2000 wrote: »

I think the aircraft they are using is a Fokker F50, so it has seating for 50 pax . Its going to be very limited trying to get cheap seats especially during peak season .

fair point. Either way, the fact that the CEO of VLM is coming out and saying the response is phenomenal can only be positive for the future of the airport.

space2ground1

It won't be long before they beg borrow or steal a larger aircraft for the route if demand remains phenomenal! Id love to see a flight to a small airport near Paris or anywhere in Belgium.

comeraghs

Perhaps admin could change the name of this thread as it seems overly negative to an airport that seems to be on the up!