Ties

karlitob

Hi all,

Question on tie's. I'm having difficulty getting a nice wide knot in my tie and at the same time have the tie come down to my belt line and at the same time have the small end tuck into the front end through the little loop at the back. To ensure that the wide end goes far enough down, i have the knot at the narrow piece of the tie and the small end usually flails around. Its all very stressful!!

Do I just need longer ties? I'm tall and a little belly so I don't think there's enough tie to go around!

TwoGuysDublin

There are ties that are specified as being longer. I've seen them mainly on Tie Bar so have a look there. Are you doing a Windsor knot? Personally I use a half Windsor and a Four-In-Hand and nothing else really. But if your head is bigger than mine(no offense intended) then I get why you might want a bigger knot.

Assuming you've tied normally, came up short and started again? Perhaps lays all your ties out and see which is the longest and work with that. But if you can't get it with a nice knot, stopping at the waist and the back blade inside the keeper then move on to a diff tie me thinks.

eviltimeban

Ties can range in length from 55" to 65" - that's a big difference. Definitely try and get some longer ties; and you'll get a longer back blade result from a four-in-the-hand, as Twoguys has stated. There's a school of thought that says if your back blade is as long as the tie you don't tuck it into the keeper, but that's up to you!

If the tie itself is wide (and again, width can vary the same way) you'll get a decent knot from a 4 in hand.

karlitob

TwoGuysDublin wrote: »

There are ties that are specified as being longer. I've seen them mainly on Tie Bar so have a look there. Are you doing a Windsor knot? Personally I use a half Windsor and a Four-In-Hand and nothing else really. But if your head is bigger than mine(no offense intended) then I get why you might want a bigger knot.

Assuming you've tied normally, came up short and started again? Perhaps lays all your ties out and see which is the longest and work with that. But if you can't get it with a nice knot, stopping at the waist and the back blade inside the keeper then move on to a diff tie me thinks.

lol - yes, the head is a bit big and the small knot makes it look bigger! So i usually go for a half or 4-in-hand. One of my ties makes a lovely 4 and fits well but the rest just don't do what I need them to do.
I think you're right - a longer tie. Just hard to get in the shops cos everything is the one size

karlitob

eviltimeban wrote: »

There's a school of thought that says if your back blade is as long as the tie you don't tuck it into the keeper, but that's up to you!

I love that there's a school of thought on such things. Just getting the longer tie is the thing. Sometimes in shops they look at me as if I'm mad.

TwoGuysDublin

karlitob wrote: »

I love that there's a school of thought on such things.

As do I. Surprised there's not a SubReddit on it.

Have a look on The Tie Bar. They have the categories divided by tie length:
58"
63"
67"

Check the length of the ones you have and hope they're all 63". Then 67" is your man!

eviltimeban

You guys should head over to StyleForum. Endless discussion on the minutae of everything to do with menswear.

But yeah, as a tall guy myself I struggle with getting a decent knot with any tie shorter than 59". I mostly eBay my ties so the length is specified, occasionally if I do buy one in a store I ask if they know the length and if they don't I ask for a measuring tape! :-)

TwoGuysDublin

eviltimeban wrote: »

You guys should head over to StyleForum. Endless discussion on the minutae of everything to do with menswear.

But yeah, as a tall guy myself I struggle with getting a decent knot with any tie shorter than 59". I mostly eBay my ties so the length is specified, occasionally if I do buy one in a store I ask if they know the length and if they don't I ask for a measuring tape! :-)

Can you please tell me the time and place you next intend on asking for the measuring tape primarily so I can see the look on the face of the ppl working there. That's classic. But if you're paying good buck for it, makes sense.

eviltimeban

TwoGuysDublin wrote: »

Can you please tell me the time and place you next intend on asking for the measuring tape primarily so I can see the look on the face of the ppl working there. That's classic. But if you're paying good buck for it, makes sense.

Its a rare occasion as I rarely buy expensive ties new in a shop. I'd rather buy them on eBay where you get more choice and can buy handmade Italian silk ties for about two-thirds of the normal price. I got a Pancaldi recently for about 20 quid and they retail at over €150. As a result my tie collection is heaving to close to 50 ties - I'll be consigning some of them very soon.

Most tailors should have a tape close to hand so its not a huge ask. If you're buying your ties in Debeneham's then it might be a different story.

/tiesnobbery

TwoGuysDublin

eviltimeban wrote: »

Its a rare occasion as I rarely buy expensive ties new in a shop. I'd rather buy them on eBay where you get more choice and can buy handmade Italian silk ties for about two-thirds of the normal price. I got a Pancaldi recently for about 20 quid and they retail at over €150. As a result my tie collection is heaving to close to 50 ties - I'll be consigning some of them very soon.

Most tailors should have a tape close to hand so its not a huge ask. If you're buying your ties in Debeneham's then it might be a different story.

/tiesnobbery

I was definitely thinking of it from the Debenhams POV rather than a tailors which was why I wanted to see it. Nice work on the Pancaldi for that price. From coming across them previously they're generally around the ton mark--and higher--and I've not seen them really much lower. As they tend not to make ties I'd call demure, how colorful have you gone with them?

eviltimeban

TwoGuysDublin wrote: »

I was definitely thinking of it from the Debenhams POV rather than a tailors which was why I wanted to see it. Nice work on the Pancaldi for that price. From coming across them previously they're generally around the ton mark--and higher--and I've not seen them really much lower. As they tend not to make ties I'd call demure, how colorful have you gone with them?

Wasn't too bad - was a rich orange:



The tie keeper is a gold chain.

TwoGuysDublin

Nice! Sweet fitting suit my friend. Semi spread looks well too. You ever wear a button down dress shirt?

I didn't know what to expect with the tie but that compliments everything really well. I think orange and blue is such a great combo. Just shows pinstripe can look well when done right. I think Gerald Keane kind of killed my enthusiasm for the stripe but it could come back.

eviltimeban

Thanks for the compliments; I think a chalk stripe suit is an essential part of the wardrobe.

karlitob

TwoGuysDublin wrote: »

Nice! Sweet fitting suit my friend. Semi spread looks well too. You ever wear a button down dress shirt?

I didn't know what to expect with the tie but that compliments everything really well. I think orange and blue is such a great combo. Just shows pinstripe can look well when done right. I think Gerald Keane kind of killed my enthusiasm for the stripe but it could come back.

A button down dress shirt? Is there such a thing? Should there be such a thing? I'm from the 'school of thought' (apart of the faculty that we're building here) that no tie with a button down.

Thanks all for the comments. Could I ask what are good ties to go for? I'm getting into buying ties for work and like to buy good quality, but I only see whats in a mens shop or debenhems and don't know whats good or bad.

Pancali? Any other suggestions.

TwoGuysDublin

karlitob wrote: »

A button down dress shirt? Is there such a thing? Should there be such a thing? I'm from the 'school of thought' (apart of the faculty that we're building here) that no tie with a button down.

Thanks all for the comments. Could I ask what are good ties to go for? I'm getting into buying ties for work and like to buy good quality, but I only see whats in a mens shop or debenhems and don't know whats good or bad.

Pancali? Any other suggestions.

I often see Jamie Redknapp when he's on Sky wearing a button down dress shirt and tie. As I'm a noob I can't post a link, but Google "brooks brother button down shirt" and you'll see some shirt and tie combos with a button down.

I'm not a fan of it personally, but I'd never say Redknapp looks bad in it. It's just the collar tends to be bigger and longer and I prefer it cleaner and spread like evil has in the pic he posted. Most of the button downs I own are Oxfords or something that I wouldn't be wearing formally with a suit.

When it comes to ties, some of the nicest ones I've bought have been from Maison de la Cravate. It's a reasonably priced French website. I've bought from Massimo Dutti, TM Lewin--where I've found some nice wool ties though they're usually stocked with silk. Purdey do some nice ties and you can pick up some decent ones from The Tie Bar.

I've seen some lovely Bottega Veneta ones but I'm not in the market for 200 quid ties. I usually go with feel and material--to hell with you Polyester--and if it's good on me and doesn't *look* cheap, then I'm happy with that.

evil seems to have a lot of ties from the sound of it so maybe he has more brands that he's loyal to

eviltimeban

TwoGuysDublin wrote: »

evil seems to have a lot of ties from the sound of it so maybe he has more brands that he's loyal to

I have feckin' tonnes of them. I need to consign some - maybe you can buy them off me!

As for brands, I like Brooks Bros, Polo Ralph Lauren, Canali, Zegna, Liberty, Drake's and have one or two Richard James and Duchamp. I have a number of vintage ties but they can often be shorter than modern ones. I also have a few M&S and TM Lewin ties - both of those brands aren't half bad for the price you are paying. Check them out. Always buy 100% silk, or wool.

The very end of sales is a good time to go tie hunting - Brown Thomas especially have some decent mark-downs towards the end of their sale (however this year's winter sale wasn't great). Their 'own brand' ties are very decent, and I think they are about €25 in the sale (check quickly though, as I think might have cleared the unsold stuff away by now).

Hackett have nice ties too; it just depends on how much you want to spend. If you fancy your chances at eBaying some, I'll PM you the link to the seller I buy from - he has nothing but high-end ties. You have to bid, and it can get very competitive, but you can get quality stuff for very little.

On to the shirts; I wear spread collar 100% of the time, so don't wear button downs. However a friend of mine likes tab collar shirts, which is something I might look into. Think Bond in Skyfall:

karlitob

eviltimeban wrote: »

I have feckin' tonnes of them. I need to consign some - maybe you can buy them off me!

As for brands, I like Brooks Bros, Polo Ralph Lauren, Canali, Zegna, Liberty, Drake's and have one or two Richard James and Duchamp. I have a number of vintage ties but they can often be shorter than modern ones. I also have a few M&S and TM Lewin ties - both of those brands aren't half bad for the price you are paying. Check them out. Always buy 100% silk, or wool.

The very end of sales is a good time to go tie hunting - Brown Thomas especially have some decent mark-downs towards the end of their sale (however this year's winter sale wasn't great). Their 'own brand' ties are very decent, and I think they are about €25 in the sale (check quickly though, as I think might have cleared the unsold stuff away by now).

Hackett have nice ties too; it just depends on how much you want to spend. If you fancy your chances at eBaying some, I'll PM you the link to the seller I buy from - he has nothing but high-end ties. You have to bid, and it can get very competitive, but you can get quality stuff for very little.

On to the shirts; I wear spread collar 100% of the time, so don't wear button downs. However a friend of mine likes tab collar shirts, which is something I might look into. Think Bond in Skyfall:

Definitely my favourite thread in a long time!!!

Salviating on the bond look - wish I was a bit trimmer for it (and richer, and an assassin). Shirts are my next question - I've started wearing shirts at work - previously only on occasion. I want to wear something nice but not expensive and something that will last. I wear shirt pants and tie not a suit. I tend to buy ™ Lewin but I'm not sure they stand up to regular washing. M&S are good quality but I think too expensive for what they are - but you might think I'm wrong.

Where do you get your shirts?

And while I'm at it - where do you get your pants. Again, I'm in M&S for a price/quality balance - I don't need expensive clothes for my job but still want to look the part.

Thanks

eviltimeban

Shirts:

I would actually recommend TM Lewin. Their slim fit (not fully fitted) shirts are really good, they wear really really well and aren't expensive. I tend to go through shirts so I don't spend huge amounts of money on them. If you can get something that's well made, 100% cotton, and won't crease within two seconds of putting it on, you're on to a winner. I get the fully spread collar ones, that's my preference.

The best shirt I have is from Louis Copeland, their own brand. Great fit, great collars, great spread. Pricey at 125 but you can get them in the sale (though they are still about 79 - 99).

Hackett do great shirts but are pricier; then again, I still prefer the fit of the TM Lewin. You can try the outlet in Kildare for cheaper prices. I got a few Savoy Taylor's Guild ones from Moss Bros but they didn't last and they were a bit too short.

There was a time where you'd find nothing but Thomas Pink shirts in my wardrobe, however they are pricey and over the years their quality has declined. Now you are paying over 100 euro for a shirt brand that isn't as good as it was 10, 12 years ago. I think Lewin are now at the level Pink were at 10 years ago. Only downside to Lewin is the level of choice is pretty small. I generally tend to just get light blue and white anyway, but if you wanted more choice...

I'd love a Borelli shirt as they look amazing:



Hmm, if you are wearing shirt / pants / tie, then why no jacket? You really should either wear a suit or a get a few sports coats.

I think there might be a need now for a "Classic Menswear" or "Formal Menswear" sticky thread - all questions could go in the one thread, and there could be links to shops / resources / eBay sellers. What do you think, Mods?

karlitob

eviltimeban wrote: »

Shirts:

I would actually recommend TM Lewin. Their slim fit (not fully fitted) shirts are really good, they wear really really well and aren't expensive. I tend to go through shirts so I don't spend huge amounts of money on them. If you can get something that's well made, 100% cotton, and won't crease within two seconds of putting it on, you're on to a winner. I get the fully spread collar ones, that's my preference.

The best shirt I have is from Louis Copeland, their own brand. Great fit, great collars, great spread. Pricey at 125 but you can get them in the sale (though they are still about 79 - 99).

Hackett do great shirts but are pricier; then again, I still prefer the fit of the TM Lewin. You can try the outlet in Kildare for cheaper prices. I got a few Savoy Taylor's Guild ones from Moss Bros but they didn't last and they were a bit too short.

There was a time where you'd find nothing but Thomas Pink shirts in my wardrobe, however they are pricey and over the years their quality has declined. Now you are paying over 100 euro for a shirt brand that isn't as good as it was 10, 12 years ago. I think Lewin are now at the level Pink were at 10 years ago. Only downside to Lewin is the level of choice is pretty small. I generally tend to just get light blue and white anyway, but if you wanted more choice...

I'd love a Borelli shirt as they look amazing:



Hmm, if you are wearing shirt / pants / tie, then why no jacket? You really should either wear a suit or a get a few sports coats.

I think there might be a need now for a "Classic Menswear" or "Formal Menswear" sticky thread - all questions could go in the one thread, and there could be links to shops / resources / eBay sellers. What do you think, Mods?

Good idea - but maybe split it up into work/dress. Happy to spend the money for dress but not so much work. I wear sports jackets a lot but work is just shirt and tie really. I hear what you're saying on the ™ lewin.

Have you worn Moss Bros did you say

http://www.mossbros.ie/sale?s=googleIEppc&gclid=CjwKEAiA0O2lBRDOrPX4oJP3t2oSJACjpaHAr9CxVGfjzgwavuMNd1EKQU4c2sY5A_0FoUNGddd_HxoCQgHw_wcB


How does this sale look to you?

TwoGuysDublin

Have been to Moss Bros before and amn't the biggest fan of the quality or the fit. I've at least five TM Lewin shirts. A couple are nice enough to wear for formal and some of the others work well as work shirts. They're better than most work shirts and the slim fit I find is a nice cut for my shape.

I wouldn't pay the money for a Thomas Pink shirt. Just not worth it. I've one Louis Copeland shirt I wore for my wedding and the quality is really nice. Initially I was going with an Eton but in the end went with Louis' own brand and was happy with it.

You might not think it much by the name, but definitely check out the site Suitsupply. They have some lovely shirts, cool variety and you'll see some tab collar shirts on there like the ones that were mentioned earlier in the thread.

House of Fraser have some good sales online worth checking out. Free delivery to the shop so good for collection. I picked up a Richard James Mayfair shirt in there fit so perfectly it seemed tailored. Could have been luck of the draw.

Lastly I got a chisel collar shirt from SimonandSimon. It's 96% cotton with a little breathing movement in the material I assume but fit perfectly. Was weird at first but really like the fit and those kinds of collars aren't in most shops.

eviltimeban

I agree about Moss Bros; they are definitely on the cheaper end of things and I had a few STG shirts from there but wouldn't buy them again.

Agree about SuitSupply; I intend making my first suit purchase from there soon so I'm looking forward to that. Buying a suit online can be tricky but the good thing about SS is the free returns policy they have.

eviltimeban

karlitob wrote: »

Good idea - but maybe split it up into work/dress. Happy to spend the money for dress but not so much work. I wear sports jackets a lot but work is just shirt and tie really.

See, I don't look at it as "work" or "dress". I see it as classic menswear. OK, for the most part the only time I wear suits is to work, but as I spend most of my day in work I might as well dress well.

If you work at it you can really change your attitude to work wear by getting great suits / shirts / ties / shoes and accessories. You'll feel a million times better and will actually look forward to going to work as you enjoy dressing in those clothes. OK, you might stand out a bit and you might feel self conscious (the first time I wore a colourful pocket square I thought everyone was staring at me) but after a while you won't care and you'll just get on with it.

You know that feeling you get when you put a great combo together, you feel great and you can't wait to wear it again? The trick is to do that every day!

TwoGuysDublin

eviltimeban wrote: »

You know that feeling you get when you put a great combo together, you feel great and you can't wait to wear it again? The trick is to do that every day!

Sympatico!

Sugar Free

@eviltimeban: so much dimple envy! Grand Canyon-esque, good work.

eviltimeban

If we're making this a menswear thread, then this is WIWT:



Luciano Barbera tie
TM Lewin suit and shirt
Random white PS

karlitob

eviltimeban wrote: »

See, I don't look at it as "work" or "dress". I see it as classic menswear. OK, for the most part the only time I wear suits is to work, but as I spend most of my day in work I might as well dress well.

If you work at it you can really change your attitude to work wear by getting great suits / shirts / ties / shoes and accessories. You'll feel a million times better and will actually look forward to going to work as you enjoy dressing in those clothes. OK, you might stand out a bit and you might feel self conscious (the first time I wore a colourful pocket square I thought everyone was staring at me) but after a while you won't care and you'll just get on with it.

You know that feeling you get when you put a great combo together, you feel great and you can't wait to wear it again? The trick is to do that every day!

Thanks for that - totally agree with you. Guess I felt a bit self-conscious here. I do like to dress well normally - I'm in a new job where I get to wear and shirt and tie and I want to dress quite well. I do think theres something about an extra nice shirt for when you are going out but not in work which is why I want to buy a lot of good quality products (cos I need lots) rather than a few very expensive products. And since its a new job I need to stock up quite a lot.

karlitob

Love this thread so much I wonder if I can hijack it for trousers. Marks & Spencer's have wool blend trousers for €54. It seems a little expensive to me. Any suggestions on good quality trousers and a good price. Nothing slim fit!!!

Thanks.

eviltimeban

karlitob wrote: »

Love this thread so much I wonder if I can hijack it for trousers. Marks & Spencer's have wool blend trousers for €54. It seems a little expensive to me. Any suggestions on good quality trousers and a good price. Nothing slim fit!!!

Thanks.

For a decent pair of trousers, 54 quid is pretty good. M&S are very well made and very good quality. Depends on how you like the fit.

If you go Hilfiger or other brands you'll pay more.

Otherwise you could try TK Maxx for something cheaper. Always check the label and avoid polyester.

karlitob

eviltimeban wrote: »

For a decent pair of trousers, 54 quid is pretty good. M&S are very well made and very good quality. Depends on how you like the fit.

If you go Hilfiger or other brands you'll pay more.

Otherwise you could try TK Maxx for something cheaper. Always check the label and avoid polyester.

You're right - good advice. Thanks.

Anywhere else for similar types pants for that price? I only seem to go to Marks, Debenhems or TK.

eviltimeban

karlitob wrote: »

You're right - good advice. Thanks.

Anywhere else for similar types pants for that price? I only seem to go to Marks, Debenhems or TK.

Depends what you mean by "trousers". Type, fit, colour, material, etc? I don't really buy trousers myself (it's suits or jeans for me!) so I'm not really sure where you could go.