Gaelic Games - Sacrifice your career to play Inter-County

freddiek

Ludicrous situation. Putting your career and life on hold for a sport that only gives you a pittance in return.

We have to get real.

Articles in the main papers done with Bernard Brogan today.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/bernard-brogan-on-joe-brollys-slave-debate-players-are-choosing-careers-to-suit-football-30902531.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-gaa-players-regularly-putting-their-sport-before-their-careers-1.2063476



https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/554979146078883840

Mehapoy

freddiek wrote: »

Ludicrous situation. Putting your career and life on hold for a sport that only gives you a pittance in return.

We have to get real.

Articles in the main papers done with Bernard Brogan today.

Something will have to give, I think it is unsustainable the way things have gone now, we have amateur players in an amateur competition structure but with professional preparation and management. Players from 17 to 21 are being pulled in all directions between schools, colleges, inter county minor, 21 and senior, it seems like only students and teachers can play the game nowadays. One solution that could help would be for players only be allowed to play on one panel ie. if you are on senior panel then can't play 21, minor age at inter county needs to be changed too, maybe u17, there should also be a shorter inter county season, at the moment the season goes from November to September, way too drawn out, it's a bit if a mess but the GAA is way too democratic to change anything radically, provincial councils and counties have only self interest, nobody has a wider view of the games best interests, hard to see how to square the circle

castletownman

What's worse is the lop-sided nature of the senior competitive competitions. Between the start of February and the end of April teams will be out nearly every weekend in the League, and yet may play only two games at most in the championship. Season could be over by the first week of June. Does not make any sense. And then there's a few counties (my own included) who have the club leagues resume in February/March and have everything lie idle in the good summer months. One of the most poorly run sporting organisations in the world, and this is coming from a lad who's life revolves around GAA in various different guises.

ProudDUB

The scary thing is, BB had a lot of advantages that most GAA players don't have, with probably the exception of the Kerry footballers. He went to college 20 minutes from his own house. He had a brother and a father who were both inter county footballers & who could guide him in many aspects of that. He plays a high profile position, for a high profile county, who are fairly successful. He comes from a high profile family.

Yet with all of those advantages & things in his favour, he still felt compelled to let his GAA life dictate such a big life defining decision, as what to study in college. So God only knows what decisions young fellas from Cavan and Roscommon and Wexford, who have none of those advantages & who have to trek back home from college or work Dublin to go training, are having to make. Decisions that will have long term effects on their lives, not just their careers. Add in lads being pulled in all directions, by different managers at multiple levels (minor, college, club, u21 seniors etc etc) and it's a frightening prospect.

ciarriaithuaidh

ProudDUB wrote: »

The scary thing is, BB had a lot of advantages that most GAA players don't have, with probably the exception of the Kerry footballers. He went to college 20 minutes from his own house. He had a brother and a father who were both inter county footballers & who could guide him in many aspects of that. He plays a high profile position, for a high profile county, who are fairly successful. He comes from a high profile family.

Yet with all of those advantages & things in his favour, he still felt compelled to let his GAA life dictate such a big life defining decision, as what to study in college. So God only knows what decisions young fellas from Cavan and Roscommon and Wexford, who have none of those advantages & who have to trek back home from college or work Dublin to go training, are having to make. Decisions that will have long term effects on their lives, not just their careers. Add in lads being pulled in all directions, by different managers at multiple levels (minor, college, club, u21 seniors etc etc) and it's a frightening prospect.

Not to distract from the general point, which I agree with..but Kerry are no different to a lot of counties. If players go to third level, it's usually in Limerick or Cork which is a 3-4 hour round trip. Many players end up living/working in those areas also for the duration of their careers.
There are quite a few lads who could have had decent careers with Kerry but chose to focus on their career..there are also a few lads who gave up better career opportunities further afield to remain involved with Kerry..which ties in with BB's point in the article. This isn't a recent phenomenon either as anyone who is familiar with the story of one P O'Sé will know.

tastyt

I think mehapoys suggestion of making minor at inter county level u-17 is one of the best I've heard in a long time. It would be very rare for a 16 year old to be involved in senior or college teams and would get minor out of the way before going fresh into u 21 without having to get caught up with too many teams.

I also think if you play schools hurling/football you shouldn't be allowed play over the minor grade for your club

ProudDUB

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Not to distract from the general point, which I agree with..but Kerry are no different to a lot of counties. If players go to third level, it's usually in Limerick or Cork which is a 3-4 hour round trip. Many players end up living/working in those areas also for the duration of their careers.
There are quite a few lads who could have had decent careers with Kerry but chose to focus on their career..there are also a few lads who gave up better career opportunities further afield to remain involved with Kerry..which ties in with BB's point in the article. This isn't a recent phenomenon either as anyone who is familiar with the story of one P O'Sé will know.

Sorry, I didn't express my self well on the Kerry thing. What I meant was that a high profile player from a high profile, successful county will have opportunities that a player from a less successful county won't have. It's the nature of all team sports, not just the GAA.The likes of BB and the O'Se's or Colm Cooper or Henry Sheflin will probably always have media gigs and promotional opportunities and income generating opportunities available to them (even after they retire) to a much, much greater degree than a player from say Carlow or Leitrim will.

Then there is the fact that success is so ingrained in Kerry, you'd have to look very hard to find a Kerry player who is not related to, or living near, or working with someone who has multiple celtic crosses in their back pockets. All that embedded GAA DNA is in the very air & each generation of players have it to draw upon. The Brogans (to a lesser degree, I admit) have that to draw upon too, seeing as who their dad was. So if someone like BB feels compelled to cut career corners, to get ahead in the GAA world, God only knows what lads from less high profile counties are doing.

Poor_old_gill

I guess the most unfortunate thing is that some guys make a lot of sacrifices career and in general life between 17-24 and they never kind of make it.

People talk about kerry and dublin being successful and sometimes their success is used to justify the sacrifices, etc but there will be a lot of players who did all that work and just fell short- it's becoming more and more intense every year

chrysagon

I know a few inter county players who got good jobs from playing inter county, i played with one, and he told me himself, he would never have got the career he has only for GAA connections!

Mehapoy

ProudDUB wrote: »

The scary thing is, BB had a lot of advantages that most GAA players don't have, with probably the exception of the Kerry footballers. He went to college 20 minutes from his own house. He had a brother and a father who were both inter county footballers & who could guide him in many aspects of that. He plays a high profile position, for a high profile county, who are fairly successful. He comes from a high profile family.

Yet with all of those advantages & things in his favour, he still felt compelled to let his GAA life dictate such a big life defining decision, as what to study in college. So God only knows what decisions young fellas from Cavan and Roscommon and Wexford, who have none of those advantages & who have to trek back home from college or work Dublin to go training, are having to make. Decisions that will have long term effects on their lives, not just their careers. Add in lads being pulled in all directions, by different managers at multiple levels (minor, college, club, u21 seniors etc etc) and it's a frightening prospect.

I've heard of young inter county players being advised to pursue teaching as a career by their manager as it gives them the summer off...crazy if true

BKWDR

chrysagon wrote: »

I know a few inter county players who got good jobs from playing inter county, i played with one, and he told me himself, he would never have got the career he has only for GAA connections!

But out of the amout of inter county players that go through the system it's only a drop in the ocean. Sure playing the game (if you are good) will open doors for you but I often think of the day to day sacrifices that these lads make, let alone the life choices.
As an example, the gooch, since he was late teens probably has not had a 'normal' summer off. He's 31 now. Imagine all the craic and lads holidays or just normal things that young fellas do that he's missed out on. I know he's the extreme case and there are countless others.
I don't in any way envy some of the lads who go to college in Dublin that once or twice a week have to drive all the way down to Kerry / Cork / Mayo / Donegal for a can't-miss training session.

The least these lads deserve is a cushy number in Ulsterbank...

Mehapoy

BKWDR wrote: »

But out of the amout of inter county players that go through the system it's only a drop in the ocean. Sure playing the game (if you are good) will open doors for you but I often think of the day to day sacrifices that these lads make, let alone the life choices.
As an example, the gooch, since he was late teens probably has not had a 'normal' summer off. He's 31 now. Imagine all the craic and lads holidays or just normal things that young fellas do that he's missed out on. I know he's the extreme case and there are countless others.
I don't in any way envy some of the lads who go to college in Dublin that once or twice a week have to drive all the way down to Kerry / Cork / Mayo / Donegal for a can't-miss training session.

The least these lads deserve is a cushy number in Ulsterbank...

Can't post the link but very good article in the examiner from paddy Heaney on this...I agree with him that the calendar is a major problem, even at minor inter county it's crazy, for instance limerick minors played their first game in April and last in September, and were probably training from January, that meant thd limerick club minor final wasn't played until just before Christmas...

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

keane2097

Brolly was giving out a lot about all these guys being students for the entirety of their football careers but is that not another case of him making things up to suit his argument?

James Horan was on Newstalk the last night and mentioned that 13 of the 15 guys he sent out to play Kerry were in jobs, similarly the Kerry team that started the All Ireland final as far as I know had a vet, a chemical engineer, a pharmacist etc.

Fionn Fitzgerald, Paul Geaney and O'Donoghue were the only students I think, and at 24 aren't exactly unusually wrinkled to be walking around a campus.

davegrohl48

No one is asking them to play is commonly stated.
Actually yes they are asked to play. Talented players being pressured into playing way too many games and with way too many different teams is widespread.
The only solution is to reduce the overall number of games through scrapping competitions/some age groups and stricter rules on eligibility.

rpurfield

Merging minor and under 21 into an under 19 or 20 grade would be a help, but the training demands are crazy even at club level, I've heard of clubs undertaking these early morning sessions that are all the rage, surely something needs to be done about that type of thing too?

The demands on lads in their early 20's are crazy too, sure enough they're amateur and as such are really obligated to play, but if they're good enough they're going to want to play county and won't want to put that under threat by skipping out on the 21 panel or junior panel or saying no to O'Byrne cup, let alone the fact they would be under pressure at home in the club or in college, so it's not as easy as saying they're not being made. I know myself I found it a lot harder to say no to people at 20 years old than I do now.

davegrohl48

The gym work is starting to make the whole thing unenjoyable on the pitch also for players and supporters. Do we really want a game of players built like rugby players barging at defenders, surrounding player in posession, diving tackles from behind when players try to catch the ball or pickup the ball.
The only possible way to reduce the gym work necessary is to take alot of the physical contact out of the game. i.e. make it more of a game of skill and agility. Raw power and size would then come in in third place. Right now power/size is in a strong first place. If you could improve any aspect of a player by 10% you'd be a fool to ignore size/power.

Soccer is about the level of upper body physical contact is supposed to be in Gaelic Football. Even though you don't see it much there is a shoulder charge allowed in soccer (whatever happened to it )

In the GAA rule book the only permitted physical contact is a fair shoulder to shoulder.
There would have to be:
1. Regular pulling for barging
2. Regular pulling for hits at the player/shoulders/contact from behind
3. Bring in a rule that cannot dive into tackles (you see all those hits from behind when the player is coming to catch/pickup the ball.
4. Strict appliance of the steps rule

People may think that you would lose the essence of the game by reducing the physical contact. But look at what we have already lost:
- Smaller players are struggling to maintain starting spots.
- Gym work to get bigger/stronger is now mandatory to be physically capable of competing.
- The amount of shoulder/collarbone injuries from games is crazy.
I can't remember there being too many shoulder/collarbone injuries pre 2000's?
Current Mayo forward line:
Cillian OConnor club/county - repeated shoulder dislocations requiring surgery.
Michal Conroy (club match) - Shoulder injury requiring surgery
Evan Regan - Going in 50:50 against bigger opponents resulting in him flying into the air. Against smaller players he probably doesn't take as bad a fall.

Daniel Mccurry one of the most exciting forwards in the game. But read this article where he has been concentrating clearly on bulking up (evident), his fitness and his defending. He can still take a score for sure, but I'd prefer him to be targetting James ODonoghues 70% accuracy from play last year (the best in recent stats as checked by Dont foul blog) rather than working on upping his bench press/squat and his defending.
http://www.hoganstand.com/Tyrone/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=231724
I'd love to see a game where the players had a relentless pursuit of skill. It would be much less taxing on their bodies/minds.

tastyt

davegrohl48 wrote: »

The gym work is starting to make the whole thing unenjoyable on the pitch also for players and supporters. Do we really want a game of players built like rugby players barging at defenders, surrounding player in posession, diving tackles from behind when players try to catch the ball or pickup the ball.
The only possible way to reduce the gym work necessary is to take alot of the physical contact out of the game. i.e. make it more of a game of skill and agility. Raw power and size would then come in in third place. Right now power/size is in a strong first place. If you could improve any aspect of a player by 10% you'd be a fool to ignore size/power.

Soccer is about the level of upper body physical contact is supposed to be in Gaelic Football. Even though you don't see it much there is a shoulder charge allowed in soccer (whatever happened to it )

In the GAA rule book the only permitted physical contact is a fair shoulder to shoulder.
There would have to be:
1. Regular pulling for barging
2. Regular pulling for hits at the player/shoulders/contact from behind
3. Bring in a rule that cannot dive into tackles (you see all those hits from behind when the player is coming to catch/pickup the ball.
4. Strict appliance of the steps rule

People may think that you would lose the essence of the game by reducing the physical contact. But look at what we have already lost:
- Smaller players are struggling to maintain starting spots.
- Gym work to get bigger/stronger is now mandatory to be physically capable of competing.
- The amount of shoulder/collarbone injuries from games is crazy.
I can't remember there being too many shoulder/collarbone injuries pre 2000's?
Current Mayo forward line:
Cillian OConnor club/county - repeated shoulder dislocations requiring surgery.
Michal Conroy (club match) - Shoulder injury requiring surgery
Evan Regan - Going in 50:50 against bigger opponents resulting in him flying into the air. Against smaller players he probably doesn't take as bad a fall.

Daniel Mccurry one of the most exciting forwards in the game. But read this article where he has been concentrating clearly on bulking up (evident), his fitness and his defending. He can still take a score for sure, but I'd prefer him to be targetting James ODonoghues 70% accuracy from play last year (the best in recent stats as checked by Dont foul blog) rather than working on upping his bench press/squat and his defending.
http://www.hoganstand.com/Tyrone/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=231724
I'd love to see a game where the players had a relentless pursuit of skill. It would be much less taxing on their bodies/minds.

Excellent post.

citykat

davegrohl48 wrote: »

The gym work is starting to make the whole thing unenjoyable on the pitch also for players and supporters. Do we really want a game of players built like rugby players barging at defenders, surrounding player in posession, diving tackles from behind when players try to catch the ball or pickup the ball.
The only possible way to reduce the gym work necessary is to take alot of the physical contact out of the game. i.e. make it more of a game of skill and agility. Raw power and size would then come in in third place. Right now power/size is in a strong first place. If you could improve any aspect of a player by 10% you'd be a fool to ignore size/power.

Soccer is about the level of upper body physical contact is supposed to be in Gaelic Football. Even though you don't see it much there is a shoulder charge allowed in soccer (whatever happened to it )

In the GAA rule book the only permitted physical contact is a fair shoulder to shoulder.
There would have to be:
1. Regular pulling for barging
2. Regular pulling for hits at the player/shoulders/contact from behind
3. Bring in a rule that cannot dive into tackles (you see all those hits from behind when the player is coming to catch/pickup the ball.
4. Strict appliance of the steps rule

People may think that you would lose the essence of the game by reducing the physical contact. But look at what we have already lost:
- Smaller players are struggling to maintain starting spots.
- Gym work to get bigger/stronger is now mandatory to be physically capable of competing.
- The amount of shoulder/collarbone injuries from games is crazy.
I can't remember there being too many shoulder/collarbone injuries pre 2000's?
Current Mayo forward line:
Cillian OConnor club/county - repeated shoulder dislocations requiring surgery.
Michal Conroy (club match) - Shoulder injury requiring surgery
Evan Regan - Going in 50:50 against bigger opponents resulting in him flying into the air. Against smaller players he probably doesn't take as bad a fall.

Daniel Mccurry one of the most exciting forwards in the game. But read this article where he has been concentrating clearly on bulking up (evident), his fitness and his defending. He can still take a score for sure, but I'd prefer him to be targetting James ODonoghues 70% accuracy from play last year (the best in recent stats as checked by Dont foul blog) rather than working on upping his bench press/squat and his defending.
http://www.hoganstand.com/Tyrone/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=231724
I'd love to see a game where the players had a relentless pursuit of skill. It would be much less taxing on their bodies/minds.

Have to disagree with you there. The amount of handpassing in Gaelic is laughable. IMO if you want to do something about the game and make it worth watching, sort this out first.

davegrohl48

citykat wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. The amount of handpassing in Gaelic is laughable. IMO if you want to do something about the game and make it worth watching, sort this out first.

I agree with you, I believe there are many things wrong with the game. People are bigger now naturally. Even without gym work it's about time some of the contact (that is meant to be a free) was properly ruled a free.
In my opinion it's the overly physical nature of the game which results in people stopping playing. Shoulder problems are very common. By the rulebook soccer/basketball/gaelic football should have similar levels of contact.

zetecescort

Hurling going that way too. It's all about getting the ball in hand and breaking past two or three men before playing it, leading to rucks. If the steps rule was enforced and players were made play the ball earlier it would make a great game better.

There is a motion before Congress to change the rule in hurling from 4 to 3 steps but won't be worth a damn if it's not enforced

nice_guy80

zetecescort wrote: »

Hurling going that way too. It's all about getting the ball in hand and breaking past two or three men before playing it, leading to rucks. If the steps rule was enforced and players were made play the ball earlier it would make a great game better.

There is a motion before Congress to change the rule in hurling from 4 to 3 steps but won't be worth a damn if it's not enforced

if they just enforced the current rules there'd be no problem.

Kilkenny and Cork have been pushing out the boundaries on steps for the last 15 years.
Are referees not able to count the steps, or are they under such pressure from the likes of Cody etc that they let it go?

Realt Dearg Sec

nice_guy80 wrote: »

if they just enforced the current rules there'd be no problem.

Kilkenny and Cork have been pushing out the boundaries on steps for the last 15 years.
Are referees not able to count the steps, or are they under such pressure from the likes of Cody etc that they let it go?

Just Kilkenny and Cork? What are you talking about? Every county does it, pretty much to the same extent. And unless Cody is also pressuring junior refs in Dublin for some reason, I don't think you can blame him for this (though he gets blamed for everything else good knows). It's prevalent at every level of the game.

zetecescort

It's like moving the ball forward taking penalties and 21s, going on with years and everybody does it. Maybe it's because more games are televised now that it seems worse in recent years

nice_guy80

The clubs will ape what goes on at county level

the lack of proper refereeing of steps and physical contact since the early noughties is ruining hurling if you ask me

Realt Dearg Sec

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The clubs will ape what goes on at county level

the lack of proper refereeing of steps and physical contact since the early noughties is ruining hurling if you ask me

I agree with you. It just has nothing (particular) to do with cork, Kilkenny, or Cody, and I've no idea how someone could arrive at the conclusion that it did. Anyway it's off topic.

Drumpot

If you are under 30 and can put your career on hold to potentially play for your county, I think you are mad not to choose a once in a lifetime opportunity.

People are far too conformed to thinking life is all about making the safest choice according to societal norm.

I think it's sad that many people never dare to dream and worse still never dare to chase that dream. Modern day "wisdom" would have us believe you must be a hippy or something negative to choose life over the rat race.

Can you imagine a potential inter county player on their deathbed regretting working hard to play for their county or can you imagine them lamenting them choosing the safe option of focusing on their career? For most people the answer is obvious.

Junior D

I can see where people are coming from with regard to the amount of work/training to play inter-county these days is mad, but to say hurling is being ruined with all the additional work being carried out is over the top in my opinion.

Look at the standard of games we've had in the last few years, and even last year alone! The Kilkenny and Tipp AI final and replay were great games! The Wexford Clare games too, not to mention the Kilkenny Limerick game. And the year before? Clare and Cork AI final and replay, Dublin and Cork etc..

I could keep going on, but the quality in hurling definitely is not being ruined by the increased standard of professionalism, especially in relation to gym work

davegrohl48

Its hard for hurling to ever let's say worsen. Skill will always be way up at number one. Thank God someone mentioned steps. Dessie Farrell was first forward who really took the piss with barging n 7 or 8 steps. If steps n barging were properly referred the players would be much smaller/agile n more skillful. Alot of current forwards game is based on barging n too many steps.

LiamNeeson

I don't understand how people can say they "deserve a job in ulster bank" simply because they play GAA sports, what about all the amateur rugby clubs, basketball clubs, cycling clubs, ping pong clubs?
What a man does in his spare time shouldn't play a big part in a job application process.

Regarding the travelling business, the Northern Ireland state actually worked in the favour for GAA players as most go to Belfast universities and would stay within the 6 counties to work as well, whereas over in Donegal they would go to universities in Dublin and work there too