Rent in arrears

delthedriver

I have an ongoing situation at the moment where a tenant's rents are in arrears since last September.

Last September I completed a Rent Review form for the tennant

The tenant in question is no problem per se except her Rent Allowance is in arrears and is poorly equipped in terms of dealing with personal paperwork

Obviously the HSE cannot talk to me as under Data Protection they cannot discuss the issue with the landlord.

I have tried contacting the tenant numerous times by phone and by text, needless to say with zero progress. Very keen to continue a softly , softly approach, as I sense tenant is feeling quite embarrassed at this stage.

Just anxious to get matters up to date.

Has any one come across this situation before ?

Many thanks

d.:)

Meathlass

Treat it as a business instead of getting caught up in the emotion of it all.

How much are the rent arrears at this stage.

With a normal tenancy you would issue a letter detailing arrears and giving notice to pay them but not sure if RA is different system for this.

handlemaster

september ? your obviously to soft and she sees this. You need to send registered letter detailing outstanding payments. is rent allowance been paid direct to you ? is she still entitled to same

The_Conductor

delthedriver- you are running a business- not a charity.
She is in arrears- detail the arrears, be precise, from what date x was due, payments received, what the current balance outstanding is etc.

That the tenant has an issue with her rent allowance- is her issue- not yours.

I may sound harsh- but you can't allow DSP off the hook like this- you are owed money- and both the tenant and the DSP are taking you for a ride.

Gatling

Chances are she spent the rent DSP won't a show any interest

Mrs OBumble

Are there any support agencies who the tenant might engage with, and who might approach her on your behalf. Does she have any family or friends that you know of?

In Galway I'd be thinking Cope, no idea who the equivalent is in your location. Or maybe VdP. The HSE cannot tell you anything, but they can listen to you and may choose to act on what you say even though they cannot tell you about what they're doing. So it may be worth talking to them anyway.

My answers are normally the most hard-assed here, but I don't see it quite the same as the previous posters this time around.

Your comment that she's poorly equipt for doing personal paperwork makes me think some kind of mental health or intellectual disability issue is at play. In that case, forcing the issue may tip the tenant into doing something that puts your property at risk. So treading gently may be a better approach.

(I guess you've tried calling her with your caller number suppressed?)

Kristopherus

The HSE no longer pays R.A. The CWO's are now part of DSP.

Greenmachine

Eviction process long over due at this stage. Just follow the letter of the law.

delthedriver

HI ALL,


Thank you sincerely for your replies and suggestions.


Normally I would not be shy about taking a tough approach , in this case I sense there is an issue between Tennant and DSP. Rents were always paid directly to my account


Tenant is young lone parent, she adopts an ostrich approach to life and has many personal problems. Lady is quiet , shy, displays low self esteem with some literacy issues. Contact by phone is almost impossible even when I withhold my phone number.


Family support is limited. Essentially she needs some sort of social worker to advocate on her behalf. Previously she dealt with local HSE office , but with change to DSP seems lost with change.


I have contacted DSP and offered to meet them , however albeit correctly they were not prepared to talk to me due to Data Protection, nonetheless if their client is living in my property they should continue to pay the rent ?


From a business perspective , I will have little option but to take the appropriate actions up to and including eviction if necessary.


As a landlord I would consider myself to be a fair and reasonable person to deal with. If a Tennant has a problem it is dealt with within 24 hrs by my property agents.


This particular case has me puzzled. I will try making contact with tenant again tomorrow


Many thanks


D

SMJSF

Kristopherus wrote:

The HSE no longer pays R.A. The CWO's are now part of DSP.

she could be out of care, which the HSE does actually pay for living allowances and rent.

If she has mental/educational issues, a social worker could be present for her and the child.

But if I was the OP, and the tenant has a child and is showing finance issues, I'd be slightly showing concern for the child's welfare.
if she's young, has possible capability problems, and a child, she shouldn't be on her own.

MouseTail

My guess is either she never sent in the form, or the rent is being paid directly to her and she is spending it. In either of those cases, you wont get the rent backdated. It doesn't take 3 months to sort out a rent allowance review.

delthedriver

MouseTail wrote: »

My guess is either she never sent in the form, or the rent is being paid directly to her and she is spending it. In either of those cases, you wont get the rent backdated. It doesn't take 3 months to sort out a rent allowance review.

On this occasion I sent in the form and know it was received by contact name. Agree it should not take 6 months to sort a Rent Review

cerastes

Only thing that can be done is follow the formal process now, as soon as rent was outstanding or contact was withdrawn probably should have done this, but may as well start it now. I can see that a softly approach can sometimes produce results as well or better than coming down like a tonne of bricks, but it means time, effort and waiting it out to see how it all comes off. Been there and I think the best thing is to try not to let them let it get out of hand, as easy as that is to say, if someone isnt answering, its quite difficult to do.
At this stage, some form of initial notice detailing outstanding rent, at least with the view to ending the situation or start to end it, hopefully you may be able to recover some money back from it too, but then straight into the 14 day warning and then a 28 day NOT, I think you may have to wait till the day after each warning is given before proceeding to the next stage. I can see the softly softly approach can be necessary up to a point, after that if they are already ignoring their obligation regardless of their ability to cope, you need to start the process to move them on.
At this stage I think you could open a case with the PRTB, Im not quite sure when that would be normally, but after 6 months, Id say now is ok rather than waiting until the 14 and then 28 days NOT have elapsed.
Even the initial notice may cause them to bury their heads even more, can never understand why if someone is willing to take RA tenants that they should not be paid directly into their account, otherwise it just opens up a whole can of worms and possibility for people to shore up other problems using that money. I say this as I see many lettings where landlords are not willing to rent to RA tenants and I can see why. Those that are should not be further penalised, data protection not withstanding, but direct payments should be par for the course and no option or at least at the discretion of the landlord.

This isnt the first Ive heard of the likes of this since the DSP have taken over from the HSE, and it seems whatever demands they are putting on the tenants for information is either more demanding, or the people are unable to deal with it as well as they should or as well as others can, regardless of ability. I dont really know what end this is to, as these people will end up looking elsewhere eventually, its like cooking the books, move people around, or to try get some people to rely more on family if they have them?

greenmat

She's spinning you a yarn. Had the same **** said to me over a year ago, She went 3 months in arrears, contacted the Social Welfare office that handled her case. While they would not tell me specifics, they informed me she was in receipt of Rent Allowance so in effect she was committing fraud by not paying me. I asked the welfare officer to stop her payment as I was going to remove her from the property. He agreed to, as the Rent should be paid to me. Followed PRTB protocol to the letter and evicted her 6-8 weeks later. She owes approx €3000 rent, got a determination order from PRTB but it's a toothless organisation. She is just ignoring everything that they try to send to her.

Eldarion

greenmat wrote: »

She's spinning you a yarn. Had the same **** said to me over a year ago, She went 3 months in arrears, contacted the Social Welfare office that handled her case. While they would not tell me specifics, they informed me she was in receipt of Rent Allowance so in effect she was committing fraud by not paying me. I asked the welfare officer to stop her payment as I was going to remove her from the property. He agreed to, as the Rent should be paid to me. Followed PRTB protocol to the letter and evicted her 6-8 weeks later. She owes approx €3000 rent, got a determination order from PRTB but it's a toothless organisation. She is just ignoring everything that they try to send to her.

Thanks for your anecdote greenmat! Always interesting to read first hand accounts.

Take note people! That's 3 months arrears and then the bones of another 2 months for the eviction to occur. That's ZERO rental income for nearly half a year. Please factor the possibility of this situation occurring into your calculations when deciding whether or not to purchase an investment property to let out.

greenmat

Eldarion wrote: »

Thanks for your anecdote greenmat! Always interesting to read first hand accounts.

Take note people! That's 3 months arrears and then the bones of another 2 months for the eviction to occur. That's ZERO rental income for nearly half a year. Please factor the possibility of this situation occurring into your calculations when deciding whether or not to purchase an investment property to let out.

Kept the deposit of course. Have an Determination order from PRTB, might as well use it for Toilet paper. The tenant is just ignoring all correspondence from them and the PRTB seem to be powerless. They say they can access other Government bodies, my tenant is in receipt of Rent Allowance, Childrens Allowance and probably more and yet they can't find her? It's so heavily stacked in tenants favour. I'll never take a Social Welfare tenant again, I know there are many good people out there who have fallen on bad times but once bitten, twice shy. If they could make examples of people like my tenant it would have a positive effect on the negative vibe of taking on Social Welfare recipients.

Roselm

Would it be worth texting her?

The_Conductor

Roselm wrote: »

Would it be worth texting her?

Why?
There is already a determination order against her.
While the OP may be 6-8k down thanks to her- she obviously doesn't give a damn. Sure- the OP might pursue her on a point of principle- however- he'll get his money out of her at the rate of a fiver a week- which by my reckoning would take a little over 30 years........

Texting her- when she won't respond to a statutory body who has found against her- is a fools game. If she has mistreated the OP this way already- who knows- perhaps she'd lob a counter claim that he was harassing her........

That is the state of affairs.

dixiefly

delthedriver wrote: »

I have an ongoing situation at the moment where a tenant's rents are in arrears since last September.

Last September I completed a Rent Review form for the tennant

The tenant in question is no problem per se except her Rent Allowance is in arrears and is poorly equipped in terms of dealing with personal paperwork

Obviously the HSE cannot talk to me as under Data Protection they cannot discuss the issue with the landlord.

I have tried contacting the tenant numerous times by phone and by text, needless to say with zero progress. Very keen to continue a softly , softly approach, as I sense tenant is feeling quite embarrassed at this stage.

Just anxious to get matters up to date.

Has any one come across this situation before ?

Many thanks

d.:)

Did you manage to get this sorted?

cerastes

The_Conductor wrote: »

Why?
There is already a determination order against her.
While the OP may be 6-8k down thanks to her- she obviously doesn't give a damn. Sure- the OP might pursue her on a point of principle- however- he'll get his money out of her at the rate of a fiver a week- which by my reckoning would take a little over 30 years........

Texting her- when she won't respond to a statutory body who has found against her- is a fools game. If she has mistreated the OP this way already- who knows- perhaps she'd lob a counter claim that he was harassing her........

That is the state of affairs.

Surely over 30 years is better than nothing, in this case I'd still be looking to sell this to a debt collection agency or get a judgement in the courts, that at least would prevent them accessing credit in the future,

beauf

There is such a disparity in this and things like TV licence.

http://www.thejournal.ie/donegal-woman-jailed-not-paying-tv-licence-1962677-Feb2015/

Not that I'm advocating jail for either case. But LL should have some sort of protection again this.

ted1

beauf wrote: »

There is such a disparity in this and things like TV licence.

http://www.thejournal.ie/donegal-woman-jailed-not-paying-tv-licence-1962677-Feb2015/

Not that I'm advocating jail for either case. But LL should have some sort of protection again this.

Looks to me like she was jailed for not obeying a court order. But the papers like to sensationalise, also guards don't jail people the courts do.

Failing to follow court orders just leads to anarchy

The_Conductor

ted1 wrote: »

Looks to me like she was jailed for not obeying a court order. But the papers like to sensationalise, also guards don't jail people the courts do.

Failing to follow court orders just leads to anarchy

I think we'll find out more about that TV license case- sooner or later- it just doesn't ring true, as-is...... Essentially she was handed a 500 Euro fine in the spring of 2014. She was paying this off by periodic deduction- and had already discharged over 200 Euro of it- when the Gardai decided to arrest and incarcerate her.

The resources used- and the distress caused all round- by the remaining 270 Euro of the fine that she hadn't paid (yet)- just make jailing her nuts. 2 Gardai accompanied her from Donegal down to Mountjoy in a taxi........ Right....... She got a taxi back home again- hundreds of miles......... Also- she is a single mum- so presumably- local HSE resources had to be deployed to assist with her children for the 6 hours of her incarceration (and the 7 or 8 hours of journey to and from Mountjoy)..........

There has to be a better way of doing things..........

pooch90

She was given a bus ticket home according to the article, how did the Gardaí get home?

Mrs OBumble

The_Conductor wrote: »

There has to be a better way of doing things..........

Or some reason that the guards wanted her out of town for the day ....

The_Conductor

delthedriver wrote: »

On this occasion I sent in the form and know it was received by contact name. Agree it should not take 6 months to sort a Rent Review

Delthedriver- another 6 weeks have passed. Whats happening?

delthedriver

The_Conductor wrote: »

Delthedriver- another 6 weeks have passed. Whats happening?

Thank you Conductor, Apologies for not responding sooner as I was away on holidays. Before going on holidays tenant received a7day warning followed by a 14day registered letter to pay arrears. She has now been there sent a28 Day notice of termination of contract and vacation of premises due to expire on 2nd April. Will keep you posted on out come.
Best regards

HobbyMan

You're a month behind me delthedriver. I went through the same process. Tenant left the place in an absolute state. Worse tenant I've had in 15 years and 8 properties. Had the PRTB hearing last week. Of course tenant didn't show up. Wishing you the best.

delthedriver

HobbyMan wrote: »

You're a month behind me delthedriver. I went through the same process. Tenant left the place in an absolute state. Worse tenant I've had in 15 years and 8 properties. Had the PRTB hearing last week. Of course tenant didn't show up. Wishing you the best.

Hobbyman, what was the outcome of PRTB hearing. Did you get a determination order against tenant.?


I have PRTB hearing next week.


Best wishes


D.

Penny Tration

delthedriver wrote: »

Hobbyman, what was the outcome of PRTB hearing. Did you get a determination order against tenant.?


I have PRTB hearing next week.


Best wishes


D.

He cant reply, he's sitebanned.

Did you at least get the tenant out of the property?

delthedriver

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

He cant reply, he's sitebanned.

Did you at least get the tenant out of the property?

No tenant is still in the property !!!


Tenant is playing the ostrich, it will be interesting to see if she turns up for hearing?????