Recycle cows or not

Deepsouthwest

Had an outbreak of salmonella here in the fall which resulted in 15 cows and heifers(dairy)losing their calves. I will keep the heifers, but wondering should I recycle the 12 (all second and third calvers) or sell them as culls. Will prob need to buy in milking cows this yr to make up for the 15 I've lost. Does it make since to sell these for €650/700 and replace with cows costing €1100/1200? Not a fan of buying in stock. Have plenty room and silage to carry on the empties, or should I finish them?

Milked out

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Had an outbreak of salmonella here in the fall which resulted in 15 cows and heifers(dairy)losing their calves. I will keep the heifers, but wondering should I recycle the 12 (all second and third calvers) or sell them as culls. Will prob need to buy in milking cows this yr to make up for the 15 I've lost. Does it make since to sell these for €650/700 and replace with cows costing €1100/1200? Not a fan of buying in stock. Have plenty room and silage to carry on the empties, or should I finish them?

What are the cows history's/ figures like? Ebi, milk recording and conception rates like? If they are good I would nearly hold them as you know the breeding and health status. Keeping them from getting too fat could be an issue but you could synchronise them to calve with your heifers and make training heifers easier. Them again if cows come up for sale reasonably priced and good info on them it may make more sense to purchase

Deepsouthwest

Milked out wrote: »

What are the cows history's/ figures like? Ebi, milk recording and conception rates like? If they are good I would nearly hold them as you know the breeding and health status. Keeping them from getting too fat could be an issue but you could synchronise them to calve with your heifers and make training heifers easier. Them again if cows come up for sale reasonably priced and good info on them it may make more sense to purchase

Figures, ebi, scc are all good. Wouldn't have held them til now if that wasn't the case. Just walked through them again there, and the empty heifers are in particularly good order, cows in average condition. My heart says no, but my head says it's business, they'll go along way towards paying for their replacements if feed I them for two months. Hate selling quality bred stuff for beef.

Dawggone

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Had an outbreak of salmonella here in the fall which resulted in 15 cows and heifers(dairy)losing their calves. I will keep the heifers, but wondering should I recycle the 12 (all second and third calvers) or sell them as culls. Will prob need to buy in milking cows this yr to make up for the 15 I've lost. Does it make since to sell these for €650/700 and replace with cows costing €1100/1200? Not a fan of buying in stock. Have plenty room and silage to carry on the empties, or should I finish them?

If they were mine I would sell as culls and buy in-milk cows.

Milked out

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Figures, ebi, scc are all good. Wouldn't have held them til now if that wasn't the case. Just walked through them again there, and the empty heifers are in particularly good order, cows in average condition. My heart says no, but my head says it's business, they'll go along way towards paying for their replacements if feed I them for two months. Hate selling quality bred stuff for beef.

You could ai heifers and sell in autumn? Guessing game what price stock will be then but autumn heifers seem to command a premium

Milked out

Milked out wrote: »

You could ai heifers and sell in autumn? Guessing game what price stock will be then but autumn heifers seem to command a premium

Your keeping heifers just re read the op but yes given milk price and reducing price of cows prob best to replace

visatorro

I would cull. nothing worse than looking at dry cows for a year. also it's a buyers market this spring. quality stock should be picked up handy enough

RightTurnClyde

Culls are making good money, hi EBI cows are good value at the moment. Those empty cows will cost you money to get to next year and produce nothing along the way, and after carrying them for 12 months they could end up over fat or get summer mastitis.
If it was me I'd sell the empties and use the opportunity to pick up some choice cows in calf to good sires. Hard to let of good culls but You'll have a good Roi

Deepsouthwest

Should I consider finishing them myself?

Farmer Pudsey

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Should I consider finishing them myself?

Hard to know a lot will depensd om your grass situtation. I expect that beef prices will strenghten over next few months and remain strong throughout year. How strong are cull prices. These are young cows so should finish easy however 12 will consume a lot of grass or silage and concentrates to finish. If you have the grass maybe if you will need silage and ration I be selling.

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Hard to know a lot will depensd om your grass situtation. I expect that beef prices will strenghten over next few months and remain strong throughout year. How strong are cull prices. These are young cows so should finish easy however 12 will consume a lot of grass or silage and concentrates to finish. If you have the grass maybe if you will need silage and ration I be selling.

After getting salmonella some of the cows suffered condition wise, but they've definitely turned the corner now and I feel will thrive well now. Another possible market is selling them for another man to bull them and milk them nxt yr. Not sure how strong that market is with current milking stock priced being poor.

whelan2

if it was me i would hold on to them, better the devil you know, buying in isn't all its cracked up to be.

RightTurnClyde

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Should I consider finishing them myself?

I wouldn't bother my bollo. I try to make the most of my empties here, the best value I've found over the years is to let them off warmed up on just silage and let the finishers finish them. Any time I finished them Ive found I would have been better off letting them to the mart in Jan.
Let them off to the mart in the next few weeks and make your purchase. 3 or 400 along with the sale price will get you a nice springer. ( and maybe a few valuable heifer calves in them)

Deepsouthwest

whelan2 wrote: »

if it was me i would hold on to them, better the devil you know, buying in isn't all its cracked up to be.

I agree, haven't bought anything in here for yrs, but I'm back in cow numbers now for the yr. Sold 25 incalf heifers at the end of last summer, would normally sell in the spring, and then as luck would have it these 15 went wrong.

Brown Podzol

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Had an outbreak of salmonella here in the fall which resulted in 15 cows and heifers(dairy)losing their calves. I will keep the heifers, but wondering should I recycle the 12 (all second and third calvers) or sell them as culls. Will prob need to buy in milking cows this yr to make up for the 15 I've lost. Does it make since to sell these for €650/700 and replace with cows costing €1100/1200? Not a fan of buying in stock. Have plenty room and silage to carry on the empties, or should I finish them?

I would finish at grass if room is avalaible, maybe even let a bull with them from April. They would fatten quicker and leave you with options in the Autumn if dairy stock are getting expensive.

greysides

I know off Friesian heifers that aborted near term or calved with dead calves from Salmonellosis and were then sold. It spread the disease.

So I'd prefer the factory or keep options to the sell option. Some will remain as carriers.

Deepsouthwest

greysides wrote: »

I know off Friesian heifers that aborted near term or calved with dead calves from Salmonellosis and were then sold. It spread the disease.

So I'd prefer the factory or keep options to the sell option. Some will remain as carriers.

Thanx greysides, will keep that in mind

KatyMac

greysides wrote: »

I know off Friesian heifers that aborted near term or calved with dead calves from Salmonellosis and were then sold. It spread the disease.

So I'd prefer the factory or keep options to the sell option. Some will remain as carriers.

Is there a blood test to see which, if any, are still carriers?
Personally, I'd prefer to keep if possible, as already said ' better the devil you know'.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Should I consider finishing them myself?

If you keep them then you will end up with another group of cattle on the farm adding complications to the system unless you fatten them in the shed. Then you have the problem of trying to keep them fit, not fat and the added problems of minding them from summer mastitis(unless you already do winter milk).

Will you have ability to keep them next year, in terms of housing and stocking rate also?

I would be leaning towards selling them off if you are going to be buying in as stock look like they will be cheaper this spring.

simx

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Hard to know a lot will depensd om your grass situtation. I expect that beef prices will strenghten over next few months and remain strong throughout year. How strong are cull prices. These are young cows so should finish easy however 12 will consume a lot of grass or silage and concentrates to finish. If you have the grass maybe if you will need silage and ration I be selling.

Cull cow trade is strong enough at the minute anyway

mahoney_j

simx wrote: »

Cull cow trade is strong enough at the minute anyway

600 kg plus hol fr with about 10% br fr blood not extreme holstein,fully dried up and on 4 kg rolled barley and good silage since new years day what's sort of bucks simx

einn32

mahoney_j wrote:

600 kg plus hol fr with about 10% br fr blood not extreme holstein,fully dried up and on 4 kg rolled barley and good silage since new years day what's sort of bucks simx

Sold a 660 kg cull fr today at mart she made 930e. Lively trade. Not much cattle numbers there.

Timmaay

Sold two old culls which had been loitering around here the last 2 months or so on nuts etc, 500e each, prb 600kg, but all belly and bones, should have let them on straight outa the parlour.

The man in red and black

KatyMac wrote: »

Is there a blood test to see which, if any, are still carriers?
Personally, I'd prefer to keep if possible, as already said ' better the devil you know'.

No good way to know if they are going to be in the carrier state, the bacteria can stay in the Gallbladder and cause intermittent shedding.

simx

mahoney_j wrote: »

600 kg plus hol fr with about 10% br fr blood not extreme holstein,fully dried up and on 4 kg rolled barley and good silage since new years day what's sort of bucks simx

all depends on whether she has a touch on her and if so how much, a cow with a middling touch on her could make 830/850 at the minute in kk anyway, was in carlow yesterday and thought they were dearer than kk last thursday and that was dear imo

simx

Timmaay wrote: »

Sold two old culls which had been loitering around here the last 2 months or so on nuts etc, 500e each, prb 600kg, but all belly and bones, should have let them on straight outa the parlour.

if i was milking and selling id be letting them on straight out of parlour in october or so, fropm previous experience i dont think it pays to keep backward/store cows for the winter, i have about 7 or 8 stores that will probably be held for grass, they are just the types that need grass any other cows are going out of the shed, could stuff them with nuts now and have gone out of shed but i cant see myself doing it, these cows wont be a makeup to me but hopefully some other lucky purchases will balance the thing a bit, maybe not
, heres hoping

mahoney_j

simx wrote: »

all depends on whether she has a touch on her and if so how much, a cow with a middling touch on her could make 830/850 at the minute in kk anyway, was in carlow yesterday and thought they were dearer than kk last thursday and that was dear imo

Report to follow in an hour or so

simx

mahoney_j wrote: »

Report to follow in an hour or so

ya in nenagh? many cows in it?

Deepsouthwest

simx wrote: »

all depends on whether she has a touch on her and if so how much, a cow with a middling touch on her could make 830/850 at the minute in kk anyway, was in carlow yesterday and thought they were dearer than kk last thursday and that was dear imo

Can't see her making that, but I hope I'm wrong.

mahoney_j

simx wrote: »

ya in nenagh? many cows in it?

Yep about 45 from what I can see ,very small sale

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Sold two old culls which had been loitering around here the last 2 months or so on nuts etc, 500e each, prb 600kg, but all belly and bones, should have let them on straight outa the parlour.

got 550 euro in yard for 2 out of parlour last week, had sent a few like you before christmas, had a good bit of meal in them and got 600 and 550:rolleyes:

mahoney_j

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yep about 45 from what I can see ,very small sale

8 cows ave weight 604kg made 770 average.nice cheque for a few irrelevant bi product cows!!!.heavy cows over 650 kg making 9 plus .saw one before I left 840 kg 1380 euro

RightTurnClyde

That's great going MJ, Going to Thurles next Monday with 13

Deepsouthwest

mahoney_j wrote: »

8 cows ave weight 604kg made 770 average.nice cheque for a few irrelevant bi product cows!!!.heavy cows over 650 kg making 9 plus .saw one before I left 840 kg 1380 euro

Massive money mj, they must've been good cows. How were younger lighter cows around the 530/550 mark going? Just out've curiosity!

frazzledhome

If they were mind I'd sell and replace. If they were still milking I'd keep

mahoney_j

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Massive money mj, they must've been good cows. How were younger lighter cows around the 530/550 mark going? Just out've curiosity!

They were nothing spectacular ,milked up to 13 December then on mostly straw and a bit of silage till New Years day andvthen silage and 4 kg rolled barley all beteween first and fifth lactation cows mixture of 3 spin cows,slow milkers, ***** and three I was disappointed to loose .550 kg fr would of cane into 700 if a lot of br fr or 630/650 if thinish hol.couple of young pure black jex,nice looking ainmals and fleshy 480kg 560 euro
In your situation think I'd flog them and replace,freind picked up 20 early feb calvers yesterday in North cork,average ebi 190 in calf to Ai fr ,papers,fully vaccinated mothers records etc given a pick of 60 heifers whatever he wanted 1300 euro

simx

mahoney_j wrote: »

8 cows ave weight 604kg made 770 average.nice cheque for a few irrelevant bi product cows!!!.heavy cows over 650 kg making 9 plus .saw one before I left 840 kg 1380 euro

they must of been storey enough cows? still not a bad average price, seems to be a great hunger for cows around here at the moment (along with a lot of polling), best value cow imo i bought last week was the heaviest cow, a red fr 820kg 1230e, the lighter ones i nearly could of left behind me but no point talking about it now :rolleyes:

mahoney_j

simx wrote: »

they must of been storey enough cows? still not a bad average price, seems to be a great hunger for cows around here at the moment (along with a lot of polling), best value cow imo i bought last week was the heaviest cow, a red fr 820kg 1230e, the lighter ones i nearly could of left behind me but no point talking about it now :rolleyes:

What's a storey cow ted?????.

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

What's a storey cow ted?????.

Strong store but needing more feed before finishing?

simx

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Strong store but needing more feed before finishing?

got it in one

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Strong store but needing more feed before finishing?

Thanks ,if that's the case that's exactly what mine where,decent cows fleshy but could proably carry another 150 kg average live weight.that cow I quoted 840 kg that made 1380 what would she of cleared in the factory??

simx

mahoney_j wrote: »

Thanks ,if that's the case that's exactly what mine where,decent cows fleshy but could proably carry another 150 kg average live weight.that cow I quoted 840 kg that made 1380 what would she of cleared in the factory??

was she a fr cow or cont.? was she very fleshy? no belly/udder? all variables

mahoney_j

simx wrote: »

was she a fr cow or cont.? was she very fleshy? no belly/udder? all variables

Fr tall hol type not extreme very fleshy,good bit of feeding gone into her

simx

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fr tall hol type not extreme very fleshy,good bit of feeding gone into her

Personally I'd only get circa €1300 for her, maybe a lad on a contract would get more, if she was an good o grade the price may go up another 10c/kg, I usually sell os and ps flat

Buford T. Justice XIX

simx wrote: »

got it in one

Not as thick as I look, thankfully.

atlantic mist

had 4 o grades cows wk ago went to factory avg net €1210 live wgt 793kg, ud prob get an extra ton if they were 840kg. how can u make money buyin in mart at 1380?

just do it

atlantic mist wrote: »

how can u make money buyin in mart at 1380?

You can't but factory agents buying there keeps the farmer away from the ring;)

simx

atlantic mist wrote: »

had 4 o grades cows wk ago went to factory avg net €1210 live wgt 793kg, ud prob get an extra ton if they were 840kg. how can u make money buyin in mart at 1380?

What was the base price for the cows? 3.40?

atlantic mist

3.2

Farmer Pudsey

atlantic mist wrote: »

had 4 o grades cows wk ago went to factory avg net €1210 live wgt 793kg, ud prob get an extra ton if they were 840kg. how can u make money buyin in mart at 1380?

They killed nearly 50% which for cows (I presume that they were fresians) is quite good. Had they eaten much feed over last 100 days

atlantic mist

ya think was 49% kill out, our cows are 60% friesian 40%hol there blocky cows to look at
they dnt go back in calf so put on a bit of weight while milkin they wernt skin n bone being dried
Most of weight put on at grass wernt housed till nov, they got 4kg 14% nut at grass for a month and a half and same meal when housed with good bales of silage
were fit to go before xmas, but sent a batch in nov at 2.8 so held for price increase after xmas