Advantages of going farming now...

Toplink

I'm 36... 37 this year coming. I work full time off farm. Dad runs a suckler farm and is in his early 60s and is healthy thank god.

Our farm is made up of 100 acres at home and 40 acres about 6 miles away. Dad uses the outfarm to winter the cattle and sells them at 2 years old.

Now I help out on saturdays and do bits of admin but nothing more. We are investigating the option me taking on the 40 acres myself and dad switching his system and selling the cattle as weanlings.

So I'll rent it from him. And buy 20 store cattle in march, summer graze them and sell them at back end of year. Not going to make a fortune at this game... I am well aware of that.

So what are the advantages of starting farming now as opposed to taking over the whole farm in 5 years or so?

- I qualify for young farmer top up
- I can apply to national reserve for entitlments but I think my income will block me here

is there any other future advantages from a stamp duty view point? Considering ill be over 40 when I take over the farm?

Toplink

Is the 7 months the minimum you need to keep cattle on the farm to qualify for grants?

I'll be buying in Spring and selling in Autumn.

AP2014

Toplink wrote: »

Is the 7 months the minimum you need to keep cattle on the farm to qualify for grants?

I'll be buying in Spring and selling in Autumn.

Was 7 months last year and year before.

Farrell

If you stack all entitlements onto home block, will it mean much of a cut?
If you can't get BFP from Reserve would you consider buying?
When your father retires in 5 years can you combine all then / sell?
Will going to Weanling trade leave more money for your father? Or could you buy his remaining Weanlings & sell as stores?
These are questions I'd be asking & if the answers are yes I'd proceed.
Generally you can regret not doing something, but as I've learned here if it doesn't make financial sense then why be a busy fool.
Good luck

Farrell

With regard stamp duty, best visit a solicitor or accountant to see what your options are.
There could be an option to sign to you prior to your 40th with your father farming the home as he is, & leasing off you

rangler1

Farrell wrote: »

If you stack all entitlements onto home block, will it mean much of a cut?
If you can't get BFP from Reserve would you consider buying?
When your father retires in 5 years can you combine all then / sell?
Will going to Weanling trade leave more money for your father? Or could you buy his remaining Weanlings & sell as stores?
These are questions I'd be asking & if the answers are yes I'd proceed.
Generally you can regret not doing something, but as I've learned here if it doesn't make financial sense then why be a busy fool.
Good luck

If the father own the outfarm, stacking won't be allowed, he'll have to transfer with the land or sell them

Toplink

Farrell wrote: »

If you stack all entitlements onto home block, will it mean much of a cut?
If you can't get BFP from Reserve would you consider buying?
When your father retires in 5 years can you combine all then / sell?
Will going to Weanling trade leave more money for your father? Or could you buy his remaining Weanlings & sell as stores?
These are questions I'd be asking & if the answers are yes I'd proceed.
Generally you can regret not doing something, but as I've learned here if it doesn't make financial sense then why be a busy fool.
Good luck

Thank you Farrell for taking the time to respond. Exactly the type of information I was looking for.

- There would be a cut alright but not significant and certainly not enough to block this move... unsure if he can stack though?

- If I don't get anything off the National Reserve then i would definitely look at buying alright. I'd have 5 years under the Top Up.

- Not sure what you mean by "combine and Sell" ???

- I believe it would leave more money for him but the real issue for me here is that I am watching my father slaving away all winter drawing bales up and down to an outfarm thats 6 miles away. I know between diesel, wear and tear and hours lost that he is cutting well into whatever margin he is making by keeping them an extra year. Me taking over the outfarm is me indirectly trying to get him to take things a bit easier to be honest. He had a heart op earlier this year and he needs to look after himself a bit better.

- I could buy his weanlings but to me its kind of awkward trying to decide the market value of a beast when buying off a family member? Maybe I am being silly :-)

Farrell

What I was thinking about combine/sell, is if you can stack onto the home & get BFP for the outfarm, when you are farming all in 5 years will you be able to combine the payment of what you'll have & what your father has, over the area of the total farm, else you may have to sell yours.
In reality you'll need to sound out a good advisor.
Rangler mentions above your father cannot stack if he owns both land, if you were to inherit now, could he continue on with the home with all entitlements?
I agree it's hard to deal with family, but I was thinking if he should have some bad weanlings he'd not be able to carry them, would you have to buy them etc.
I think you've allot of stuff to get sorted, better now than issues later.
Your intentions are good & I'd probably do similar, as if you tried to jump in you may offend, I think if you can show you're in this together it could help lighten the burden.

Ballyglen

Hello All. In a very similar position to Toplink and currently looking for a good advisor so i'll keep you updated.
Age 34 and we have about 100 acres at home and 30 on outfarm.
Have my own sheep running on fathers herdnumber the last 3 years and had been holding out until 2015 but income threshold has thrown spanner in works as over it due to shift premium. I believe we wont qualify for 25 per cent top up or any access to national reserve on young farmer or new entrant.
Was going to rent outfarm off father and he stack his entiltments and i apply for new ones. Did not realise he must sell or transfer in order to do this.
Whole thing is a bit of let down as planed on moving to less paid job and be closer to home and investing some savings and EU into improving farm and take whole place over in 5 years time as this ok with father.
Is buying entitlements even benificial. Was going to apply to GLAS but will they have similar restrictions.

newholland

Ballyglen wrote: »

Hello All. In a very similar position to Toplink and currently looking for a good advisor so i'll keep you updated.
Age 34 and we have about 100 acres at home and 30 on outfarm.
Have my own sheep running on fathers herdnumber the last 3 years and had been holding out until 2015 but income threshold has thrown spanner in works as over it due to shift premium. I believe we wont qualify for 25 per cent top up or any access to national reserve on young farmer or new entrant.
Was going to rent outfarm off father and he stack his entiltments and i apply for new ones. Did not realise he must sell or transfer in order to do this.
Whole thing is a bit of let down as planed on moving to less paid job and be closer to home and investing some savings and EU into improving farm and take whole place over in 5 years time as this ok with father.
Is buying entitlements even benificial. Was going to apply to GLAS but will they have similar restrictions.

The income limit does not apply to top up

rangler1

Ballyglen wrote: »

Hello All. In a very similar position to Toplink and currently looking for a good advisor so i'll keep you updated.
Age 34 and we have about 100 acres at home and 30 on outfarm.
Have my own sheep running on fathers herdnumber the last 3 years and had been holding out until 2015 but income threshold has thrown spanner in works as over it due to shift premium. I believe we wont qualify for 25 per cent top up or any access to national reserve on young farmer or new entrant.
Was going to rent outfarm off father and he stack his entiltments and i apply for new ones. Did not realise he must sell or transfer in order to do this.
Whole thing is a bit of let down as planed on moving to less paid job and be closer to home and investing some savings and EU into improving farm and take whole place over in 5 years time as this ok with father.
Is buying entitlements even benificial. Was going to apply to GLAS but will they have similar restrictions.

Actually made a mistake on the stacking, we're into a new regime now and I think that 2015 can be a reference year for your new entitlements, your new entitlements area is going to be based on years 2013 or 2015 whichever is the lesser....so it's just a matter of applying on less land.
It used to be that you could only stack if you lost rented land or some of your land was subject to CPO... sorry about that

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

Actually made a mistake on the stacking, we're into a new regime now and I think that 2015 can be a reference year for your new entitlements, your new entitlements area is going to be based on years 2013 or 2015 whichever is the lesser....so it's just a matter of applying on less land.
It used to be that you could only stack if you lost rented land or some of your land was subject to CPO... sorry about that

Apparently, the rule about land farmed 2013 v 2015 does not apply to YF's for NR, only 2015 count,. but that fact has not been widely published

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

Apparently, the rule about land farmed 2013 v 2015 does not apply to YF's for NR, only 2015 count,. but that fact has not been widely published

If the father claims all his SFP on the 100 acres, can the son not look to the NR for his SFP on 40......suppose when you think about it, it looks a bit iffy

Toplink

Ballyglen wrote: »

but income threshold has thrown spanner in works as over it due to shift premium. I believe we wont qualify for 25 per cent top up or any access to national reserve on young farmer or new entrant.
.

Hi Ballyglen,

What is the current income threshold?

mauser77

Toplink wrote: »

Hi Ballyglen,

What is the current income threshold?

I think it's 40000 over that your out. Can put in 2013 or 14 tho if ya were less in 13 it'd work

Toplink

mauser77 wrote: »

I think it's 40000 over that your out. Can put in 2013 or 14 tho if ya were less in 13 it'd work

Is that gross or net

mauser77

Toplink wrote: »

Is that gross or net

Gross

Ballyglen

Toplink wrote: »

Is that gross or net

Yes it gross for certain. What ever is on your P60. You need to submit it. I'm only over by a couple of grand on both year. My basic is fairly low but shift premium brought it up.
Will rule out thousands for sure as most semi-prof or trained jobs will be earning around that.
There is hardly any incentive to earn over average industrial wage anymore and sometimes your better off. I refuse to do any overtime now as travel to work, 52 precent taken off you and busting your arse due to staff shortage not worth it!