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Garda harassment

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2

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    #32
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    When the op tried to pick her clothes up off the side of the road the "hero" guard assaulted her.
    I think you should read the op again-all the clues are there.

    There is no allegation of assault in the op at all.
    What we have here is the Gardai involved in a drugs search and the suspect was seen to be interfering with that search. For all the Gardai knew, the op may have been attempting to retrieve drugs from a pile of unsearched items or place drugs in a pile that was already searched.

    The op admitted that she failed to cooperate so I suppose the Gardai would treat that response with some suspicion.


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    #33
    pah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭pah


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    He stood on her clothes on the side of the road before assaulting her and you can't see how this is harassment?
    Keystone cops come to mind.
    Harassment.

    10.—(1) Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, by any means including by use of the telephone, harasses another by persistently following, watching, pestering, besetting or communicating with him or her, shall be guilty of an offence.

    S 10 Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997

    Harrassment is something that occurs on an ongoing basis.


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    #34
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    desertcircus wrote: »
    Throwing an innocent person's clothes in the dirt, pushing them around and generally acting like a bully counts as harassment. Police exist to serve the public, not abuse them.

    Carrying out drugs searches is serving the public.
    I'm sure its a pain in the arse to be subject to a search when you are innocent, but the op should look at the wider picture and have cooperated with the search. It probably would have went smoother.


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    #35
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There is no allegation of assault in the op at all.
    What we have here is the Gardai involved in a drugs search and the suspect was seen to be interfering with that search. For all the Gardai knew, the op may have been attempting to retrieve drugs from a pile of unsearched items or place drugs in a pile that was already searched.

    The op admitted that she failed to cooperate so I suppose the Gardai would treat that response with some suspicion.

    Why would an innocent person cooperate with some eejit guard on a power trip when they have done nothing wrong?
    Another reason why I'm against the arming of guards except for the elite of the force-badly handled situations like this could escalate so easily.


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    #36
    pah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭pah


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Why would an innocent person cooperate with some eejit guard on a power trip when they have done nothing wrong?
    Another reason why I'm against the arming of guards except for the elite of the force-badly handled situations like this could escalate so easily.

    What do you mean?


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    #37
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Why would an innocent person cooperate with some eejit guard on a power trip when they have done nothing wrong?
    If the Garda are going to do a drugs search, they're going to do it whether you cooperate or not.
    So if you want it to go smoothly then the smart move is to cooperate.

    If you want to, you can fail to cooperate and make the whole experience more difficult. Some people like that - it gives them stuff to complain about.


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    #38
    desertcircus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    Phoebas wrote: »
    If the Garda are going to do a drugs search, they're going to do it whether you cooperate or not.
    So if you want it to go smoothly then the smart move is to cooperate.

    If you want to, you can fail to cooperate and make the whole experience more difficult. Some people like that - it gives them stuff to complain about.

    Or the Gardai could do their job properly and avoid being unpleasant for no good reason.


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    #39
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    desertcircus wrote: »
    Or the Gardai could do their job properly and avoid being unpleasant for no good reason.

    It would be good if everyone would be more pleasant, including fully cooperating with legal searches.

    Being subject to a search is never going to be a pleasant experience and both sides have a responsibility to make it as easy as possible. The op admits that she did not.


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    #40
    desertcircus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It would be good if everyone would be more pleasant, including fully cooperating with legal searches.

    Being subject to a search is never going to be a pleasant experience and both sides have a responsibility to make it as easy as possible. The op admits that she did not.

    That doesn't give carte blanche to an officer to abuse their position of power.


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    #41
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭sjb25


    desertcircus wrote: »
    Or the Gardai could do their job properly and avoid being unpleasant for no good reason.

    So you think a member of the gardai who thinks an offence has or was been commited weather they are right or wrong should when a person says I've Notting on me or in the car just leave it at that and say ok sorry?
    No they will search the person and the car if the person stands back and says ok work away then everything will be finished in a few min of you start protesting and getting in the way then stuff like happend here will happen so IMO the op bears some responsibility right the Garda May have been wrong and she had been doing nottin wrong so why not just co operate
    When I was younger I used to hang around with boy racers etc I was stoped and searched a good few times I always cooperated because I had Nottingham my car was fully taxed next and insured and I'd a full liecence other guys where the same but did not cooperate to well with gardai they ended up been pulled everyday I was hardly ever maybe a lesson in that


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    #42
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭sjb25


    desertcircus wrote: »
    That doesn't give carte blanche to an officer to abuse their position of power.

    He wasn't he has legal right to search anybody he BELIEVES to be commiting an offence
    Now maybe pushing her was OTT but we don't no what she was doing none of us seen this happen


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    #43
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    The op appears to not be that bothered?


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    #44
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    As a matter of interest, would threatening to strip search someone be a a criminal offense?


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    #45
    pah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭pah


    Chiparus wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, would threatening to strip search someone be a a criminal offense?

    Yes.

    Is that ambiguous enough for you?


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    #46
    seamusk84
    Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭seamusk84


    Very sorry to hear about this, I would be quite upset if that happened to me.

    My advice is simple: don't bother going to the station to make a complaint, nothing will happen. You were assaulted here and treated with a total lack of respect.

    Personally I would immediately go to the garda ombudsman and fill in a complaint form. Be sure to use as much detail as possible. Go to the garda ombudsman website and use the online complaint form.

    Best of luck.


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    #47
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,625 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Chiparus wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, would threatening to strip search someone be a a criminal offense?

    If it's two male cops V one lady who is alone then that is out of order and would do nothing only provoke her natural defenses to defend herself.
    The trouble with guards is they seem to be brain washed in training and they can NEVER admit they're wrong.
    When they first approached the op and saw she was just moving some clothes they should of said'' sorry my mistake, have a nice day'' but they never can. They take it so personally,and at this point they need to find something wrong,they look for a problem where there is no problem,just to make themselves feel better. Basically it's an attempt to make themselves look right,when in fact they were wrong.


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    #48
    pah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭pah


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    If it's two male cops V one lady who is alone then that is out of order and would do nothing only provoke her natural defenses to defend herself.
    The trouble with guards is they seem to be brain washed in training and they can NEVER admit they're wrong.
    When they first approached the op and saw she was just moving some clothes they should of said'' sorry my mistake, have a nice day'' but they never can. They take it so personally,and at this point they need to find something wrong,they look for a problem where there is no problem,just to make themselves feel better. Basically it's an attempt to make themselves look right,when in fact they were wrong.

    It's a good thing you were standing across the road


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    #49
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    I think the Gardai would benefit from training that teaches them how to make a demand as if it seems its a request that doesnt create offense but loses no face or undermine their authority.
    I came across a MET police officer many years ago in London, I was concerned for one reason or other asking for assistance, the guy could not have been more courteous and professional, on the other hand, I would not have liked to cross him. On the same hand Id consider it saved him an awful lot of hassle and cost him nothing, but fully knowing he could implement the law as required.


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nice to see people get so upset at an alleged incident that they set up an anonymous internet account and post only the one post on it. Troll bait in my opinion. Thread should have been locked after the first reply.


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    #51
    Paulzx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Zambia wrote: »
    The op appears to not be that bothered?


    She's busy rewashing her scanties


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    #52
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    foreign wrote: »
    Nice to see people get so upset at an alleged incident that they set up an anonymous internet account and post only the one post on it. Troll bait in my opinion. Thread should have been locked after the first reply.

    And you know this how? standing across the road too?
    or you just moderate forums at will?

    When someone posts, surely we can only accept they are looking for advice on the basis that the query is genuine, arent all accounts anonymous? why is this one any more special?
    maybe they did do what you describe? but there isnt anything to suggest its not a genuine query about a genuine incident purely on the basis of a low post count?


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    #53
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    pah wrote: »
    S 10 Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997
    Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, by any means including by use of the telephone, harasses another by persistently following, watching, pestering, besetting or communicating with him or her, shall be guilty of an offence.

    Harrassment is something that occurs on an ongoing basis.

    The statute just gives some examples of harassing behaviour but doesn't confine it to those examples.
    Harassment covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.

    It is characteristically repetitive but again, that doesn't confine it to being so.

    I don't think the act of explaining yourself before a search constitutes not cooperating. But maybe the manner in which it was said annoyed the Garda and he then set out to make a point of making the situation unpleasant for the OP.

    That said, I don't think their's any benefit in the OP making a complaint. Maybe the Garda was just being a dick unnecessarily and in doing so, gives the other 99% of Gardaí who don't act that way a bad reputation, but I don't think it was bad enough behaviour that anything will actually be done about it.


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    #54
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    foreign wrote: »
    Nice to see people get so upset at an alleged incident that they set up an anonymous internet account and post only the one post on it. Troll bait in my opinion. Thread should have been locked after the first reply.

    The same could be said for any poster, no matter when they joined, even if it is a troll, I have recently come across some very unprofessional and totally ignorant guards both in a working and social environment, some (not all) have the demeanour of a pig (pun intended)

    The courteous and amiable older guards are getting replaced by a more aggressive and ignorant type of offices that seems to hate the job the public and I would imagine the perceived sh1t wages they have to work for.

    Nobody asks anyone to be a cop, if they can't go about their daily work in a professional and courteous manner to the ordinary member of the public going about their daily business, then they would be better off finding a job more suited to their personality


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    #55
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,806 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    People really do like to over-react on here, don't they?

    All we have is a story by an anonymous person. While some people perceive what anyone posts as truth, law looks at it differently. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, including Gardaí. From what the op posted, it's made out that the Gardaí abused their power, assaulted her and had no reason to search her. However, the op has omitted where she was, and this would play a massive part in it. Was it on a main thoroughfare? Was it on the side of a country road? Was it in an estate with known drug use in operation? This is a massive fact which is omitted, and one which could very well lead to the Gardaí believing that something didn't seem right.

    Lets look at it from the Garda point of view. Someone is moving something about in the car. By themselves, in what could be considered a dodgy area (nothing to prove otherwise). It's not unknown for drug dealers to leave packages behind certain bushes or in certain places for collection by another person. So, they decided to stop and see what's up. A reasonable explanation in a good manner would probably have sent them on their way, however i've the feeling the op took immediate offence to being questioned, and this would only further rouse suspicions. So, they decided to enact a legal search under the Drugs Act, a search which the op again appears to have taken offence to, and did not co-operate. A search back at the station would be the logical step for someone who is not co-operating, as it's a possibility that they may have something on them. While searching, items ended up on the ground, or sounds like they were already on the ground (no indication from the op that the Gardaí put them there). When she attempted to pick them up, the Gardaí could rightly have probability that she is attempting to hide something, or do something. She states she was pushed back, but this wouldn't be unheard of with someone trying to interfere with a search. Nothing was found, they went on their way. End of.

    Gardaí know how to read body language, and it appears (to me) that the op started off on the wrong foot, and gave the Gardaí reason to be suspicious. However, if i'm completely wrong, and the Gardaí did indeed go on a power trip, then by all means make the complaint, either locally or to GSOC. Without further information from the op (which i'm guessing we're not going to get), there is nothing wrong here. Surely someone who has been legitimately aggrieved would be on here replying to every single post which points out that she may have been in the wrong. Again, there is not enough detail to make a proper conclusion on this, and i'll err on the side of caution and say that the op was not what she claims, and the Gardaí didn't do anything wrong.


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    #56
    pah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭pah


    Having read the OP again it's just a 5 line statement. No questions, no advice requested etc. Smells like BS to me


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    #57
    firestarter51
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭firestarter51


    pah wrote: »
    Having read the OP again it's just a 5 line statement. No questions, no advice requested etc. Smells like BS to me
    i agree, op made a trolling statement and stood back to watch the puppets dance, and boy did they.


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    #58
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    pah wrote: »
    Having read the OP again it's just a 5 line statement. No questions, no advice requested etc. Smells like BS to me

    Good detective skills their officer ;)


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    #59
    waulie_palnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭waulie_palnuts


    Why would any male Police Officer search a female member of the public in a public place? Assuming there was no immediate risk to life or property.


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    #60
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    waulie_palnuts wrote: »
    Why would any male Police Officer search a female member of the public in a public place? Assuming there was no immediate risk to life or property.

    Where in any part of the op does it say the op is a female


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    #61
    waulie_palnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭waulie_palnuts


    whupdedo wrote: »
    Where in any part of the op does it say the op is a female

    Going off the information that the user name is Eirca.

    How sexist of me.


This discussion has been closed.
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