Dublin Bus - changing the colours of buses

Firewalkwithme

Dublin Bus are currently conducting surveys on whether or not they should change the blue and yellow livery of their fleet. In a time of rising fares and a somewhat dodgy service, why on earth would they even consider such a thing?

Consider the cost of it for one thing, repainting the whole fleet. I know they are even thinking about repainting all the bus stops too. How will this provide a better service? Will more people get the bus because of it?

Another thing being considered is whether or not the interior of the bus should match the exterior colouring. Surely they aren't also thinking about retrofitting all of the existing fleet are they?

Just seems mad to me.

/rant

Oink

You must be joking. Who gives a flying fook? Is that what they're spending our money on? A survey on how to make buses prettier? Is that why they're charging me 3.30 for a ride into town?

CreepingDeath

I think brown would be a suitable colour.

cdebru

Oink wrote: »

You must be joking. Who gives a flying fook? Is that what they're spending our money on? A survey on how to make buses prettier? Is that why they're charging me 3.30 for a ride into town?

No they are charging you €3.30 because you haven't copped on to how you could pay €2.60 and have your fares capped .

cdebru

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Dublin Bus are currently conducting surveys on whether or not they should change the blue and yellow livery of their fleet. In a time of rising fares and a somewhat dodgy service, why on earth would they even consider such a thing?

Consider the cost of it for one thing, repainting the whole fleet. I know they are even thinking about repainting all the bus stops too. How will this provide a better service? Will more people get the bus because of it?

Another thing being considered is whether or not the interior of the bus should match the exterior colouring. Surely they aren't also thinking about retrofitting all of the existing fleet are they?

Just seems mad to me.

/rant

Ah for god sake they just have to paint the outside the same color as the current inside obviously .

paulosam

Dublin Bus having their priorities right as usual!

Probably ask for another fare increase to cover the job too. Ridiculous.

Firewalkwithme

cdebru wrote: »

Ah for god sake they just have to paint the outside the same color as the current inside obviously .

No, not just that, there is all the upholstery on the seats too.

WomanSkirtFan8

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Dublin Bus are currently conducting surveys on whether or not they should change the blue and yellow livery of their fleet. In a time of rising fares and a somewhat dodgy service, why on earth would they even consider such a thing?

Consider the cost of it for one thing, repainting the whole fleet. I know they are even thinking about repainting all the bus stops too. How will this provide a better service? Will more people get the bus because of it?

Another thing being considered is whether or not the interior of the bus should match the exterior colouring. Surely they aren't also thinking about retrofitting all of the existing fleet are they?

Just seems mad to me.

/rant

I wholeheartedly agree! Repainting the Dublin Bus fleet will not change anything. The change needs to be from the top down. The biggest problem with Dublin Bus (In general) at the moment is a complete and absolute lack of clear and coherent management.

So change the bus colours won't solve anything in the long run.

Oink

cdebru wrote: »

No they are charging you €3.30 because you haven't copped on to how you could pay €2.60 and have your fares capped .

I have a rant about that but the point is completely off topic so we'll argue about that in another thread.

The point is, they are like that mate who can't afford to pay you back, and still has enough money to go on holidays.

RayM

They repaint the buses every few years anyway, don't they? I presume any livery change would be done as part of their regular repainting cycle.

The blue/yellow combination is pretty ugly, and it's been around a long time now. They should paint them green again.

Firewalkwithme

RayM wrote: »

They repaint the buses every few years anyway, don't they? I presume any livery change would be done as part of their regular repainting cycle.

The blue/yellow combination is pretty ugly, and it's been around a long time now. They should paint them green again.

I understand that Ray but in this time of austerity is this the right moment to be doing this? It's not just a case that they are going to phase in new livery gradually as they buy new buses, they are talking about the existing fleet too and frankly I fail to see the point when fares are so expensive and the service needs to be improved first and foremost.

I'm sure Network Noel would agree with me :P

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

I understand that Ray but in this time of austerity is this the right moment to be doing this? It's not just a case that they are going to phase in new livery gradually as they buy new buses, they are talking about the existing fleet too and frankly I fail to see the point when fares are so expensive and the service needs to be improved first and foremost.

I'm sure Network Noel would agree with me :P

the point he was making is that the buses are sprayed every so often anyway that the only difference would be they stick a different color in the can instead of the regular yellow/blue.

wont make a difference money wise.

Plus you have the NTA to thank for the fare increase , not dublin bus. i believe the company wanted a max 3euro fare only and no more but NTA gave more.

Firewalkwithme

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

the point he was making is that the buses are sprayed every so often anyway that the only difference would be they stick a different color in the can instead of the regular yellow/blue.

wont make a difference money wise.

Plus you have the NTA to thank for the fare increase , not dublin bus. i believe the company wanted a max 3euro fare only and no more but NTA gave more.

I'm sorry but I disagree. Buses don't need to be repainted any more than any other vehicle does. This is nothing more than an attempt to reinvent DB in a very ineffective way. Of course it would cost a lot to repaint the buses and just to reiterate the point, they are considering the interior of the buses too. That's not cheap and it's not what's needed.

end of the road

RayM wrote: »

They repaint the buses every few years anyway, don't they? I presume any livery change would be done as part of their regular repainting cycle.

The blue/yellow combination is pretty ugly, and it's been around a long time now. They should paint them green again.

i agree. i loved the old green livery. or paint them orange and black <runs away>

Captain Chaos

Never liked the blue and yellow but it was better than the last one. I'd like them to go back to the two tone green with the red stripe, that would really mae the new VGs look like a D class for the back.

As for people saying they are wasting money painting buses, look at Irish rail with new liveries almost every 5 years. Lately they have been changing liverys before the whole fleet got the last one and they just get skipped over.

Victor

There is the issue that with the tendering or routes, buses owned by the NTA may transfer to another operator.

RayM wrote: »

The blue/yellow combination is pretty ugly, and it's been around a long time now. They should paint them green again.

No. The buses and stops were deliberately painted yellow to increase their visibility on the street, painting them green would mean that in many places they would blend in to the background.

The blue & navy at ground level is to reduce the visibility of mud and the like.

RayM

Victor wrote: »

No. The buses and stops were deliberately painted yellow to increase their visibility on the street, painting them green would mean that in many places they would blend in to the background.

Green with yellow would be an improvement. Similar to the DART.

LXFlyer

The buses are repainted in the normal course of events on a rolling three year basis as part of their standard maintenance cycle.

Keeping the vehicles looking smart is important from a brand perspective - it's part of the overall product. I certainly don't think it would be a good thing to go down the road of having a fleet of shabby looking buses going around the city. Dublin Bus have a fleet of well maintained and reliable vehicles and I think it's important that they stay that way.

Any change in livery would be done during the course of the normal repainting cycle - in other words buses would be repainted whenever they would normally be due.

Having said all of that I really think DB need to settle on the current livery for the long term. They don't need another livery change.

The yellow was chosen by then CEO Alan Westwell after significant input from visually impaired groups as it increases the visibility of the vehicles on street. Similarly that's why stops are painted yellow too.

corktina

route -specific livery is the way to go. Colour code every group of routes so that passengers can spot thier bus with ease

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

route -specific livery is the way to go. Colour code every group of routes so that passengers can spot thier bus with ease

Keeping buses to individual routes just doesn't work in practice in a large fleet though - inevitably they switch around due to maintenance issues.

Given there are over 100 bus routes in Dublin your idea would be tricky in the first place.

As I said above the current colours were developed for a very valid reason and I hope that they stick to them.

AngryLips

I like the current livery, long may it last

bk

I wonder does this have something to do with the NTA wanting all buses it buys to have their own unique NTA (Transport for Ireland) colours and brand?

All the new Dublin Buses bought over the last few years were actually bought by the NTA and are still owned by the NTA. The NTA want's to have these buses under it's own brand so they can be transferred to other companies under route tendering.

Which IMO is all perfectly reasonable.

There would be no waste of money with this. Only newly purchased buses would have this livery or they would be painted with the new livery due the normal maintenance painting schedule.

Moyet

Dublin bus should work on reducing the fares for their passengers and stop accepting free travel passes. Surely all these people with free travel passes can spare one euro at least. I believe Dublin bus is hermaging money because of free travel passengers. It's not working.

I wouldn't ask that everyone pay the same (although really they should). But it's cheaper for me to drive my car or cycle a coke zero bike in Dublin then get public transport.

It just baffles me how cities like Berlin and Lisbon have public transport that people can afford to use and seemingly we have people who can't afford to pay for it.

We simply need Ryanair to take over Dublin bus.

cdebru

bk wrote: »

I wonder does this have something to do with the NTA wanting all buses it buys to have their own unique NTA (Transport for Ireland) colours and brand?

All the new Dublin Buses bought over the last few years were actually bought by the NTA and are still owned by the NTA. The NTA want's to have these buses under it's own brand so they can be transferred to other companies under route tendering.

Which IMO is all perfectly reasonable.

There would be no waste of money with this. Only newly purchased buses would have this livery or they would be painted with the new livery due the normal maintenance painting schedule.

Not all but most , DB bought some buses as well.

Losty Dublin

Moyet wrote: »

It just baffles me how cities like Berlin and Lisbon have public transport that people can afford to use and seemingly we have people who can't afford to pay for it.

In short, it's because their relevant transport ministries and local government subvents their public transport far more generously than ours do.

cdebru

Moyet wrote: »

Dublin bus should work on reducing the fares for their passengers and stop accepting free travel passes. Surely all these people with free travel passes can spare one euro at least. I believe Dublin bus is hermaging money because of free travel passengers. It's not working.

I wouldn't ask that everyone pay the same (although really they should). But it's cheaper for me to drive my car or cycle a coke zero bike in Dublin then get public transport.

It just baffles me how cities like Berlin and Lisbon have public transport that people can afford to use and seemingly we have people who can't afford to pay for it.

We simply need Ryanair to take over Dublin bus.

Really it baffles you ?

Its the model of funding, subvention is low, numbers with free travel are high so the people who pay have to pay more, that said fares did reduce in December with leap card on some fares.

Aard

If the bus stops are being repainted, perhaps it's an opportunity to indicate stage numbers on them, as AlekSmart suggests regularly here. Or even introduce a zone system, with the "heads" of each pole painted a zone-specific colour?

dfx-

the yellow and blue is fine and still very fresh when newly painted. The creams and tans and greens of the past look very dated.

Looking at preserved RH7 in the metal, the green looks worse than people are choosing to remember it. Don't think it would suit the current fleet at all.

rozeboosje

I demand purple buses with yellow polkadots

AlekSmart

rozeboosje wrote: »

I demand purple buses with yellow polkadots

We can do that,we can do that,we can do that......work-in-progress .....

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/2012-Dublin-bus-community-buses-av443-amp-av444

Victor

Moyet wrote: »

Dublin bus should work on reducing the fares for their passengers and stop accepting free travel passes. Surely all these people with free travel passes can spare one euro at least. I believe Dublin bus is hermaging money because of free travel passengers. It's not working.

I wouldn't ask that everyone pay the same (although really they should). But it's cheaper for me to drive my car or cycle a coke zero bike in Dublin then get public transport.

It just baffles me how cities like Berlin and Lisbon have public transport that people can afford to use and seemingly we have people who can't afford to pay for it.

We simply need Ryanair to take over Dublin bus.

On topic please.

Moderator

corktina

lxflyer wrote: »

Keeping buses to individual routes just doesn't work in practice in a large fleet though - inevitably they switch around due to maintenance issues.

Given there are over 100 bus routes in Dublin your idea would be tricky in the first place.

As I said above the current colours were developed for a very valid reason and I hope that they stick to them.

not as large a fleet admittedly, but this is the award-winning Reading Buses



so it does work, they just keep a generic livery fleet for contingences
http://www.reading-buses.co.uk/times/

boardsuser1

Oink wrote: »

I have a rant about that but the point is completely off topic so we'll argue about that in another thread.

The point is, they are like that mate who can't afford to pay you back, and still has enough money to go on holidays.

Plenty of experience of that, what is the proposed colour scheme they want to change to

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

route -specific livery is the way to go. Colour code every group of routes so that passengers can spot thier bus with ease

actually that would be a fantastic idea, however it would require keeping the same busses on the same route which isn't always feasible

end of the road

bk wrote: »

I wonder does this have something to do with the NTA wanting all buses it buys to have their own unique NTA (Transport for Ireland) colours and brand?

All the new Dublin Buses bought over the last few years were actually bought by the NTA and are still owned by the NTA. The NTA want's to have these buses under it's own brand so they can be transferred to other companies under route tendering.

Which IMO is all perfectly reasonable.

There would be no waste of money with this. Only newly purchased buses would have this livery or they would be painted with the new livery due the normal maintenance painting schedule.

i disagree. we don't need a transport for ireland livery. the current livery is good enough.

Stevek101

Any link to the survey?

corktina

end of the road wrote: »

actually that would be a fantastic idea, however it would require keeping the same busses on the same route which isn't always feasible

as i said you maintain a fleet of buses in generic livery for contingencies, extras rush hour school services etc.

The question you won't see on the survey :

"are the bus colours fine as they are? "

Which means they get to do that sly bit that companies like Ryanair etc do when they say "but look at our survey results, our customers say they want this" because of how they structure the survey

Firewalkwithme

Stevek101 wrote: »

Any link to the survey?

No, they are two surveys I did for Acumen & Red C if I remember correctly so there is no link I can provide.

Firewalkwithme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The question you won't see on the survey :

"are the bus colours fine as they are?

That actually was one of the options on the survey and it was the one I chose.

Stevek101

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

That actually was one of the options on the survey and it was the one I chose.

Any examples of alternative colour schemes? Transport for Ireland branding?

_Kaiser_

Rebranding them again?? FFS.. it's a public bus service that has no competition. Livery changes every few years are completely unnecessary.

That said, if the idea is to "promote" the service and keep it "fresh", then returning to the "nostalgic" two-tone green would be a bad move too considering what the service/bus reliability was in those days

corktina wrote: »

route -specific livery is the way to go. Colour code every group of routes so that passengers can spot thier bus with ease

Disagree.. they had that in the 90s with route-branded CitySwift buses ("27 Flyer" etc) and these inevitably wound up on other routes anyway defeating the whole idea. The CitySwift brand itself was then quietly dropped in the end.

Back then you had Core, CitySwift, Route-branded CitySwift, City Imps, StationLink ... it was a mess really.

You just need one clearly identifiable colour scheme. Service level is what the passengers/potential customers care about .. not how shiny the paint work is!

poggyone

Zero proof shown that a survey has been done, so no need to get you knickers in a twist.

L1011

poggyone wrote: »

Zero proof shown that a survey has been done, so no need to get you knickers in a twist.

Other than the people who were surveyed - including me. It's demographically targeted hence there's no public link

Firewalkwithme

poggyone wrote: »

Zero proof shown that a survey has been done, so no need to get you knickers in a twist.

I did two different surveys as i already said. Why do you think I would make up something like that? I can't give a link because once I completed the survey I am unable to access it again.

poggyone

L1011 wrote: »

Other than the people who were surveyed - including me. It's demographically targeted hence there's no public link

I had a few drinks with George Clooney last night, you will have to take my word on it.

Firewalkwithme

Stevek101 wrote: »

Any examples of alternative colour schemes? Transport for Ireland branding?

No, not in the surveys I did unfortunately.

poggyone

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

I did two different surveys as i already said. Why do you think I would make up something like that? I can't give a link because once I completed the survey I am unable to access it again.

Maybe you like to stir it up , like the attention, i don't know.
All i know is zero proof has been given.

Firewalkwithme

poggyone wrote: »

I had a few drinks with George Clooney last night, you will have to take my word on it.

Oh cop yourself on ffs.

Firewalkwithme

poggyone wrote: »

Maybe you like to stir it up , like the attention, i don't know.
All i know is zero proof has been given.

Or maybe I thought the users of this forum would be interested to know it was being considered. If anyone is attention seeking here its you.

Conway635

Let me state that I am wholly in favour of things staying as they are, livery-wise. The existing colour-scheme of Dublin Bus was designed with ease of visibility in mind, and works particularly well in our murky climate.

Prior to introduction, a number of different variations of it were trialled on the street and demonstrated to visually-impaired groups (one example was close to the current design, but had white in place of the yellow, another used a lighter shade of yellow and so on).

However, notwithstanding my preferences, I'd like to reassure those who feel that money would be wasted with the following information:

Currently, as part of a scheduled heavy-overhaul cycle, every Dublin Bus gets a full repaint and retrim (replacement of internal fabrics and trim) every three years. Any livery and/or trim changed would phase in over three years as part of this cycle, and this is exactly how the change from the mish-mash of old liveries to the current "fleet standard" was accomplished a decade ago. (trials from summer 2003, routine repaints commenced December 2003, new buses in yellow from the 2004 batch onwards, last repaints by end 2006).

So the only extra costs would be around design etc.

Now, I'm sure some people will ask "why a respray and retrim every three years - isn't that a waste of money?"

In answer to that, it's important to realise that a city bus is a very different animal from a private car, a Transit van, or even a tour coach.

City buses by nature of their mode of operation (the fact that they keep running back and forward all day, and keep running with change of driver rather than out and back to depot on single-driver's shift) tend to clock up a pretty impressive mileage.

When Dublin Bus vehicles reach their 3-yearly heavy overhaul they tend to have clocked up between 200,000 and 250,000km.

The bodyframe often needs work at this mileage due to the fact that our road surfaces do not match the quality of the surfaces that "city" buses encounter in other European capitals, and damaged or fatugued panelling or jointwork is replaced as part of this process, resulting in a bus with many silver and primer patches, and an obvious need for repaint.

Internal trim and seat moquette is replaced at this time too, as the sheer amount of bottoms using it in that mileage has usually worn or frayed the cushions and backs to close to the minimum acceptable level.

This process takes place at (usually) 3, 6 and 9 years old, and then following the final three years in service, the bus is disposed of at between 12 and 14 years.

(I might note here that I have no connection with any CIE operator, but I did serve as Irish Correspondent of a weekly UK Coach and Bus magazine for seven years, hence my level of background knowledge).

C635