Toyota banging on about best resale value.....

colm_mcm

Getting a bit annoyed about the Toyota ads referencing a report that proves that Toyotas have the best resale value in Ireland.

Looking at the facts though throws up a few questions.

Dublin – 14 October, 2013 – Toyota cars are number one in Ireland for retaining their value for longer than other car brands, according to the results of a comprehensive new study by Cartell.ie, Ireland’s largest official vehicle records and car history check company. The study analysed the residual values of new cars in the Irish market originally purchased in 2010, with up to 50,000 km on the clock.

Cartell.ie developed a mathematical model based on two years of advertised car prices from Ireland’s leading used car sales site Carzone.ie, plus Autotrader.ie and also from Adverts.ie, taking into account more than 200,000 data points. Given that used cars are individually unique, prices were mathematically normalised to a value representative of 50,000km for 2010 cars.

Of the nine categories examined (including both petrol and diesel models in each class size), Toyota ranked first in five categories, second in two categories and third in one. The rankings are as follows:

Toyota Aygo ranked first in the A segment, petrol.
Toyota Yaris ranked first in the B segment for both petrol and diesel.
Toyota Corolla ranked first of all C segment petrol passenger vehicles, and Auris ranked first in diesel.
Toyota Avensis ranked first in the D segment, petrol, and second in Diesel.
Toyota Verso and RAV4 ranked second in the small MPV diesel segment and third in SUV diesel respectively.

colm_mcm

I wonder if Cartell commissioned the report at Toyotas request, and if so - can it be trusted?
Did cartell compile the report and sell it to the winner?
What relation do asking prices have to selling prices?

Dord

That's like looking at the listed house prices.

robtri

i know when I worked in the rental trade a few years ago, i would agree with this.... doesnt surprise me...
toyota at that time refused to give good discounts to the rental companies, hence the market was never flooded with them and it kept the prices up within the trade... which translate to the forecourts and private sales

bop1977

So are they lying or do you just hate the ads?

colm_mcm

I both hate the ads and don't believe them.

For example, yaris diesel and auris petrol depreciate quite heavily compared to the equivalent vw.



They have history with shonky slogans


The "best built cars in the world" is based on a book from 1990 by MIT about production processes, Toyota Ireland have been using this tagline for years.

Surely something that was said 25 years ago can't still be referenced for cars being sold today?

MuppetCheck

They need some selling point I suppose.

Bar the GT-86 it's a limited range of average cars. I drove a new model Auris rental a few weeks ago and was surprised in a bad way. Interior isn't great, the seats are crap, it doesn't drive particularly nicely and you only get a choice of two old tired hamsters under the bonnet. You need to look at the reg plate to remind yourself it's a newer model it felt so dated.

I think people are copping on at this stage despite what is said about the average Irish car buyer they are a bit more discerning than Toyota give them credit for.

DoomZ

Boring cars, lots of recalls.
Farmers/ taxi drivers car imo.

Foxhole Norman

I think it's a good time to post this again :pac:

Tom44

People have short memories.
"Best built cars in the World" logo/add was droped for two years over 1 or 2 major recalls.

colm_mcm

Tom44 wrote: »

People have short memories.
"Best built cars in the World" logo/add was droped for two years over 1 or 2 major recalls.

By who?
When?

Toyotafanboi

colm_mcm wrote: »

They have history with shonky slogans


The "best built cars in the world" is based on a book from 1990 by MIT about production processes, Toyota Ireland have been using this tagline for years.

Surely something that was said 25 years ago can't still be referenced for cars being sold today?

that's not really how marketing works though is it? a catchy tagline doesn't really have to have much substance. or at least toyota's is trying to make a sale. unlike, for example: "the car".

DoomZ wrote: »

Boring cars, lots of recalls.
Farmers/ taxi drivers car imo.

lots of recalls? name 2, exclusive to toyota.

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

I think it's a good time to post this again :pac:

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll361/Spanner6054/10898151_10152661826383867_9066132734503376301_n_zpsal14enh6.jpg

it's probably the worst time to post that. really it just emphasises that if you spend 150k buying a swanky new B.M.W. that in 10-12 years it will have lost literally 99% of it's value thus having the worst resale value.

colm_mcm

Its a great thing to be able to say your cars are better built and hold better value than everything else.

Even better to get away with it.

H.E. Pennypacker

To think that I almost bought a Toyota from you Colm :P

I heard a radio ad this morning which referred to this German survey

http://whitelabel.toyota.ie/toyota-dealers/dealer/news/?id=ea4766ed-1ac6-42bd-8ad6-41ae7deeb611&dId=57d427e4-be61-4c3b-9703-2e7704f9a10b

For those of you with short attention spans:

"Toyota is the most successful brand in the 2014 TÜV Report for the fourth consecutive year. In the latest edition of the report released today by Germany’s leading technical inspection agency - TÜV, no less than 15 Toyota models were taking Top 10 positions and the Prius the number one spot in two categories for vehicles aged four to five years and six to seven years."

"The majority of all mandatory technical inspections in Germany are carried out through the various bodies of the TÜV organisation. The 2014 TÜV Report is based on some 8 million vehicles inspected by the TÜV between July 2012 and June 2013."

Disclaimer: I'm in no way defending Toyota or agreeing with their slogan.

colm_mcm

Haven't heard that one.

Just to be clear this wasn't intended to be a toyota bashing thread, more giving out about their ads

Toyotafanboi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Its a great thing to be able to say your cars are better built and hold better value than everything else.

Even better to get away with it.

literally, it is.

i mean you know yourself, selling cars is hard, competition is a plenty. anything you can do to legitimately shift them is fair game. a catchy slogan and trading on peoples perception of your reliability are hardly that bad.

if you were toyota ireland would you change the slogan ("the best built cars in the world")? genuinely curious?

JohnBoy26

colm_mcm wrote: »

Its a great thing to be able to say your cars are better built and hold better value than everything else.

Even better to get away with it.

It's not Toyota that is making these claims about their cars though. It's the independently owned Toyota Ireland distributer that's making them.

RedorDead

colm_mcm wrote: »

I wonder if Cartell commissioned the report at Toyotas request, and if so - can it be trusted?
Did cartell compile the report and sell it to the winner?
What relation do asking prices have to selling prices?

This unfortunately is the truth. Am aware of another brand that commissioned similar research and low and behold they also have the best resale values on the market. Pay one of these companies enough money and they will "prove" anything for you.

Would love to see the raw data.

Leonard Hofstadter

RedorDead wrote: »

Would love to see the raw data.

As would I. I'm sure if you pick a sub-section of a sub-section of the market, you will find that the claim is absolutely true. Problem is most people then think that because something is true in one area (or in this case, a particular age bracket and particular model, spec and mileage) that it automatically applies everywhere else.

I don't doubt that Toyotas do hold their value well (just look at some of the crazy prices Yarises go for, even complete poverty spec Terra yokes), but they haven't been at the top of the market for a few years now (VW have been first for the past few years as far as I know), so I'm wondering have they lost their lustre with the average motorist somewhat??

JohnBoy26

MuppetCheck wrote: »

They need some selling point I suppose.

Bar the GT-86 it's a limited range of average cars. I drove a new model Auris rental a few weeks ago and was surprised in a bad way. Interior isn't great, the seats are crap, it doesn't drive particularly nicely and you only get a choice of two old tired hamsters under the bonnet. You need to look at the reg plate to remind yourself it's a newer model it felt so dated.

I think people are copping on at this stage despite what is said about the average Irish car buyer they are a bit more discerning than Toyota give them credit for.

Nothing wrong with the interior of the new corolla or auris. The previous model didn't have a very good interior though.

As for the engines, they are hardly "tired" tbh. They are well proven units which offer good economy. The 1.4 D4D around 10 years and is still one of the most refined diesels out there being smoother and quieter than even many of it's newer competitors. It might be a little low on power though but is perfectly good for most peoples needs. It's also an extremely reliable unit with non of the issues that effect modern diesels.

The 1.33 dual vvti came out about 5 years ago. Like the 1.4 D4D it's not the most powerful unit in the world compared to some of the new turbo petrols on the market. What it does offer though is excellent reliability, easy maintenance, good economy and refinement.

These cars mightn't set the world alight but they are dependable and simple with not much to go wrong. That's more important to a lot of people over higher performance.

Bpmull

For some reason almost everyone I know who drives toyotas has only ever driven toyota for most of their life. People with avensis, yaris, auris are always on their fifth or sixth toyota in a row. I suppose that's a good and bad thing good they have customer loyalty but bad in the fact that people rarely seem to just randomly buy new toyotas or even consider them. Maybe it's just my experience of the owners.

As for them In terms of their range my dad had a 06 1.4 Corolla van for a while and it was a nice van very reliable and hard to fault I always had a soft spot for that model Corolla. Gt-86 is a nice car Really stands out. Love them or hate them you can't deny that the landcruiser is a serious work horse of a jeep and I do like them although I don't know if the newest model is as good. Yaris, auris, avensis is a bit meh for me. Hiace I never liked them my dad had one years ago when he was starting up his business and he it served him well for the 6 months he had it but he absolutely hated it he bought a brand new vivaro straight after the hiace and it was infinitely better. Sure it's been facelifted since but literally all they seem to have done is changed the headlights. Proace well you could hardly call that a toyota design

Frankie Lee

Hyundai have been claiming to be the fastest growing car brand in Ireland for a long time, they can't be growing much more now.

Toyotafanboi

i'm sure the original survey conductor done a much better job at this than me.

i just took the new price of the most basic model of each car from the manufacturers official website to get the "new price".

i then took an average price of all the relevant models available in the respective years (2005 and 2010) on the first page of donedeal.ie results.

then i made a quick percentage calculation. very rough and ready, just for curiosity sake.

Supermini:

micra new €15095 (1.2 petrol SE)
micra 5 years €6500 - 43% of new value
micra 10 years €3500 - 23% of new value

yaris new €15995 (1.0 petrol Terra)
yaris 5 years €9500 - 59% of new value
yaris 10 years €5250 - 32% of new value (model change year)



Small Family Car:

focus new €22750 (1.0 turbo petrol Style)
focus 5 years €10250 - 45% of new value
focus 10 years €3750 - 16% of new value

corolla new €20995 (1.33 petrol Terra)
corolla 5 years €11500 - 54% of new value
corolla 10 years €4750 - 22% of new value



Compact Executive:

passat new €28950 (1.6 diesel Trendline)
passat 5 years €13000 - 44% of new value
passat 10 years €4250 - 14% of new value (model change year)

avensis new €25995 (1.6 petrol Terra)
avensis 5 years €12500 - 48% of new value
avensis 10 years €3600 - 13% of new value

alias no.9

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Hyundai have been claiming to be the fastest growing car brand in Ireland for a long time, they can't be growing much more now.

It's easy for any small manufacturer to claim to be the fastest growing, for a short while. It's not possible to sustain it for very long however. Dacia are claiming it now.

MuppetCheck

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the interior of the new corolla or auris. The previous model didn't have a very good interior though.

As for the engines, they are hardly "tired" tbh. They are well proven units which offer good economy. The 1.4 D4D around 10 years and is still one of the most refined diesels out there being smoother and quieter than even many of it's newer competitors. It might be a little low on power though but is perfectly good for most peoples needs. It's also an extremely reliable unit with non of the issues that effect modern diesels.

The 1.33 dual vvti came out about 5 years ago. Like the 1.4 D4D it's not the most powerful unit in the world compared to some of the new turbo petrols on the market. What it does offer though is excellent reliability, easy maintenance, good economy and refinement.

These cars mightn't set the world alight but they are dependable and simple with not much to go wrong. That's more important to a lot of people over higher performance.

I'd suggest you sit in a few rivals - it's easy to see where they went wrong on the interior. It's better than the old model alright but that wasn't hard. In that segment of car it's rarely going to be an absolutely fantastic interior but they are poor. How they can't get the seats right is a big mistake in my book.

By tired I was referring to the hamster - in that they are on the slow side and the range is so limited that it's take it or leave it. Most other makes give the option of something better even for our small market.

I'll admit they're not bad on the whole, but for a manufacturer with their resources, experience and proven ability it's not a great effort. It just shows their attitude the last couple of decades - almost there is fine.

You can have reliability to keep that market happy with a better interior, driving dynamics and a bigger range (or even a level of customization that goes beyond the colour for the most part). But they don't.

I know I'm off topic a bit, apologies.

supervento

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the interior of the new corolla or auris. The previous model didn't have a very good interior though.

As for the engines, they are hardly "tired" tbh. They are well proven units which offer good economy. The 1.4 D4D around 10 years and is still one of the most refined diesels out there being smoother and quieter than even many of it's newer competitors. It might be a little low on power though but is perfectly good for most peoples needs. It's also an extremely reliable unit with non of the issues that effect modern diesels.

The 1.33 dual vvti came out about 5 years ago. Like the 1.4 D4D it's not the most powerful unit in the world compared to some of the new turbo petrols on the market. What it does offer though is excellent reliability, easy maintenance, good economy and refinement.

These cars mightn't set the world alight but they are dependable and simple with not much to go wrong. That's more important to a lot of people over higher performance.

you are putting the 1.4 D4D engine on a serious pedestal with this statement "an extremely reliable unit with none of the issues that effect modern diesels" while i wouldn't agree with you on this, I would have to say in relation to the 1.33 dual vvti, you are spot on.....

bazz26

Could be worse, could be Claudia Schiffer trying to reassure us that Opel is German and a Mokka can conquer a multi-story car park.

JohnBoy26

supervento wrote: »

you are putting the 1.4 D4D engine on a serious pedestal with this statement "an extremely reliable unit with none of the issues that effect modern diesels" while i wouldn't agree with you on this, I would have to say in relation to the 1.33 dual vvti, you are spot on.....

Care to elaborate why? I haven't experience any serious issues on these tbh.

road_high

bazz26 wrote: »

Could be worse, could be Claudia Schiffer trying to reassure us that Opel is German and a Mokka can conquer a multi-story car park.

I cringe at those...the Mokka is Korean ffs. The Zafira, Insignia and Adam are german built. Plus a few Corsas.
The rest Spain, UK and Poland etc.
there've decided badly copying VW will sell more cars apparently.

gibbon75

bazz26 wrote: »

Could be worse, could be Claudia Schiffer trying to reassure us that Opel is German and a Mokka can conquer a multi-story car park.

And an Astra doesn't break down

JohnBoy26

road_high wrote: »

I cringe at those...the Mokka is Korean ffs. The Zafira, Insignia and Adam are german built. Plus a few Corsas.
The rest Spain, UK and Poland etc.
there've decided badly copying VW will sell more cars apparently.

It's a bit of copying both Toyota and VW. The Astra "doesn't break down" ad is very similar to what Toyota had on TV about a decade ago with it's corolla.

H3llR4iser

I personally don't see the appeal of "high resale value" when it comes to cars, but that's just me: I tend to choose cars I like and that are often kind of left field, plus usually keep them for very long times and, as a result, they will be worth next to nothing when I finally decide to change; However most people more or less rightfully take depreciation into account.

Frankly the concept Toyota parades works, they do sell well on the second hand market in Ireland and do command some premium as the layman has the "they're bulletproof" idea, and I would use it to my advantage as well if I was calling shots about their marketing.

Viper_JB

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I personally don't see the appeal of "high resale value" when it comes to cars, but that's just me: I tend to choose cars I like and that are often kind of left field, plus usually keep them for very long times and, as a result, they will be worth next to nothing when I finally decide to change; However most people more or less rightfully take depreciation into account.

Frankly the concept Toyota parades works, they do sell well on the second hand market in Ireland and do command some premium as the layman has the "they're bulletproof" idea, and I would use it to my advantage as well if I was calling shots about their marketing.

Can't forget there's a large new plate brigade in Ireland, willing to buy anything with a new plate on it each year so resale matters to them I guess, will never understand the mindset....but each to their own.

Cabaal

DoomZ wrote: »

Farmers/ taxi drivers car imo.

so dependable then?

you're not helping the op here

listermint

Cabaal wrote: »

so dependable then?

you're not helping the op here

Ive found Farmers and Taxis drivers to have the most absymal boring interior.

And toyotas fit the bill incredibly well.

Toyotafanboi

listermint wrote: »

Ive found Farmers and Taxis drivers to have the most absymal boring interior.

And toyotas fit the bill incredibly well.

what excites you in an interior?

listermint

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

what excites you in an interior?

Decent Looking and comfortable seats, Premium feeling Dashboard and Premium feeling Steering Wheel. Solid weight and feel to the door and the door close. Less buttons on the centre console but premium plastics if required.

I like the solid feel inside the new Focus for an example.


Similar to the way your signature ad describes VW golf for sale but brings me to an absymal corolla with an interior right out of an early hyundai.

Toyotafanboi

listermint wrote: »

Decent Looking and comfortable seats, Premium feeling Dashboard and Premium feeling Steering Wheel. Solid weight and feel to the door and the door close. Less buttons on the centre console but premium plastics if required.

I like the solid feel inside the new Focus for an example.

an artificially accentuated feeling kind of? for want of a better phrase.

listermint

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

an artificially accentuated feeling kind of? for want of a better phrase.

Well no, I think your confusing quality made plastics and quality finish plastics with artificially accentuated.

If you are looking for artificially accentuation id try

"best build cars in the world"

versus recalls performed in the last 10 years.

I hate sitting in Toyotas it reminds me of the 90s.



Why praytell do you feel the need to put VW Golf on your signature ? Not that im a Golf fan btw?

Cabaal

listermint wrote: »

Ive found Farmers and Taxis drivers to have the most absymal boring interior.

And toyotas fit the bill incredibly well.

any farmer I know of with a toyota doesn't give a crap about how it looks on the inside, they just want the thing to keep driving.

I know one guy who has a 1997 Toyota on his farm which he uses for pulling around trailers, drives it into fields etc. Never has a problem passing NCT and never a spot of bother with it running wise.

I took a loan of it few months back while I was without a car and while perhaps not the cleanest inside it ran just fine

Toyotafanboi

listermint wrote: »

Well no, I think your confusing quality made plastics and quality finish plastics with artificially accentuated.

If you are looking for artificially accentuation id try

"best build cars in the world"

versus recalls performed in the last 10 years.

I hate sitting in Toyotas it reminds me of the 90s.



Why praytell do you feel the need to put VW Golf on your signature ? Not that im a Golf fan btw?

"best build cars in the world" is nothing more than marketing, as has already been covered. good marketing at that. it is hardly artificially accentuating anything, toyota had a good stint at being quite possibly the best built cars in the world during the 90's, it may well not be the case today, but there was a time when they made very durable cars. they focused less on the soft touch plastic and more on engine longevity, which to me at least, makes more sense. i'd rather a reliable car than a marginally more comfortable car, personally.

what recalls have toyota made in the last ten years and how do they compare to that of other manufacturers? i have not looked to deep into it myself.

i do however see many manufacturers (mostly european) who seem to avoid recalling cars as best they can, even when issues are widespread, but because these firms don't issue a recall they are deemed great for having no recalls, which is very short sighted.

the advert in my signature is satirical, it would probably be clearer if you read the advert.

listermint

Cabaal wrote: »

any farmer I know of with a toyota doesn't give a crap about how it looks on the inside, they just want the thing to keep driving.

I know one guy who has a 1997 Toyota on his farm which he uses for pulling around trailers, drives it into fields etc. Never has a problem passing NCT and never a spot of bother with it running wise.

I took a loan of it few months back while I was without a car and while perhaps not the cleanest inside it ran just fine

Thats what im saying......

listermint

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

"best build cars in the world" is nothing more than marketing, as has already been covered. good marketing at that. it is hardly artificially accentuating anything, toyota had a good stint at being quite possibly the best built cars in the world during the 90's, it may well not be the case today, but there was a time when they made very durable cars. they focused less on the soft touch plastic and more on engine longevity, which to me at least, makes more sense. i'd rather a reliable car than a marginally more comfortable car, personally.

what recalls have toyota made in the last ten years and how do they compare to that of other manufacturers? i have not looked to deep into it myself.

i do however see many manufacturers (mostly european) who seem to avoid recalling cars as best they can, even when issues are widespread, but because these firms don't issue a recall they are deemed great for having no recalls, which is very short sighted.

the advert in my signature is satirical, it would probably be clearer if you read the advert.

new corolla,

I am just seeing alot of plastics there that wont wear well and silver paint on a door handle.. come on! it says rub me off to me.

JohnBoy26

listermint wrote: »

new corolla,

I am just seeing alot of plastics there that wont wear well and silver paint on a door handle.. come on! it says rub me off to me.

your seeing a lot of plastics there yet you like the focus interior which has a lot of cheap plastic itself.

Zubeneschamali

Rubbed-off silver paint on the door handles (made from rock hard plastic with corners - horrible to touch) was the first thing I noticed in a rented last-model Auris.

If this is the same in the new one, it's proof that Toyota really do not care, and nor do their regular buyers.

kyote00

Must admit, I dont get the love for german interiors !

Sure, Toyota is visually dull but is this really any different ?

- lots of silver inlaid to try to brighten it up....
- acres of hard plastic
- bazillons of fiddly little switches - how many switches does a radio need (less is more !)
- steering wheel by Tomy

listermint

kyote00 wrote: »

Must admit, I dont get the love for german interiors !

Sure, Toyota is visually dull but is this really any different ?

- lots of silver inlaid to try to brighten it up....
- acres of hard plastic
- bazillons of fiddly little switches - how many switches does a radio need (less is more !)
- steering wheel by Tomy

I see all the plastics that you would touch and be regurlarly touching there as tougher than the Toyotas. That is the same impression i got sitting in both newer models of these.

Its not Toyota Hate its just pure lack of effort on their part.

Toyotafanboi

listermint wrote: »

new corolla,

I am just seeing alot of plastics there that wont wear well and silver paint on a door handle.. come on! it says rub me off to me.

you have got to be joking. what plastics look like they wont wear well? the door handle isn't painted ffs.

some of the worst wearing plastics i've ever seen are in early to mid 00's VW'S and Audi's. the coating on the touchy feel stuff is desperate from coming off on the center console and door handles.

Toyotafanboi

listermint wrote: »

I see all the plastics that you would touch and be regurlarly touching there as tougher than the Toyotas. That is the same impression i got sitting in both newer models of these.

Its not Toyota Hate its just pure lack of effort on their part.

you can't really compare a corollas interior to that of a 5 series. now i know you don't know what you're talking about. the 5 series is over double the price, it's clearly going to be a little more tarted up.

kyote00

Efficient Plastic Dynamics

listermint wrote: »

I see all the plastics that you would touch and be regurlarly touching there as tougher than the Toyotas. That is the same impression i got sitting in both newer models of these.

Its not Toyota Hate its just pure lack of effort on their part.

listermint

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you can't really compare a corollas interior to that of a 5 series. now i know you don't know what you're talking about. the 5 series is over double the price, it's clearly going to be a little more tarted up.

Eh i didnt compare them... in fairness.

So ive no idea where that came from?


Anyway its very subjective tbh. And just by your username there is no debate to be had.

I think Toyotas have crappy interiors you dont. Job done. we wont convince each other.