Somerton and Rugged Lane

pondasher

At a recent Fingal County Council meeting Cllr. Roderic O'Gorman Green Party proposed that Somerton and Rugged Lane in the Srawberry Beds be made into a one way system contrary to the wishes of the Local Residents. This will also cause serious inconvience for people using Castleknock GAA Club adding up to fifteen minutes to their journey

fletch

That could be very annoying alright given the very annoying ramps all along the Strawberry beds!

folan

what was the reasoning?

daymobrew

pondasher wrote: »

This will also cause serious inconvience for people using Castleknock GAA Club adding up to fifteen minutes to their journey

15 minutes?? I could cycle the extra distance in that, including going up one of those hills. If you could only go up Somerton Lane I would expect that people will park in the Castleknock Hotel car park.

Both roads are very narrow, with only room for one car at points.

A few years ago I was doing some cycling hill training on both hills. It was about 8:30am. The speed at which people came down Rugged Lane was quite scary, with the drivers showing no thought about their inability to stop in an emergency.
I am always uncomfortable cycling up them because they are so narrow and many drivers impatient (for my own safety I generally pull in and let them pass), but they are the best hills in the area.

Having said all that, making them each one way would be annoying. Tinkers Hill is busier, shorter and therefore less attractive for training.

pondasher

folan wrote: »

what was the reasoning?

I have no idea why Cllr O Gorman would put down this motion as the locals have resisted this for many years even before Castleknock GAA were on Somerton.

Pinch Flat

folan wrote: »

what was the reasoning?

Have to every driven down rugged lane and met an oncoming vehicle, especially a van or tractor?

daymobrew wrote: »

15 minutes?? I could cycle the extra distance in that, including going up one of those hills. If you could only go up Somerton Lane I would expect that people will park in the Castleknock Hotel car park.

I train the under 9 boys gaa team - about 99% of the kids arrive by car. We are in the monitory who cycle - perhaps 5 bikes tops out of a few hundred kids on a busy morning

Some live within a few hundred meters in luttrellstown (see them packing the car then driving around rather than taking the lane opposite castleknock hotel).

StrawDub

I live on the Rugged lane and I can safely safe its only a matter of time before someone is killed. The wreckless driving that goes on is frightening, I haven't walked up or down the lane in a number of years.

Castleknock GAA would be fine if there was a one way system, the one way system could be implemented after their entrance before the first gate house on Somerton Lane. People could drive in drop their kids off and drive out.

There was a time I used to walk the Strawberry beds but those days are long gone it simply is dangerous to do so now. Its a pity as its one of the most beautiful places in Dublin.

Larbre34

Was Councillor O'Gorman's proposal adopted? If it wasn't then there's nothing more to it for the time being.

Finglas Incubus

On the point of speeding cars on the Lanes, I'd argue that speeds would increase if they were made one way. Meeting oncoming traffic would be next to nil which will increase the comfort factor for many drivers ergo faster average speeds in the absence of conflicting traffic flow.

Councils (and councillors) need to come up with more inventive ways of addressing safety on narrow roads. In this instance, are there are other vested interests or factors at play perhaps?

Pinch Flat

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

On the point of speeding cars on the Lanes, I'd argue that speeds would increase if they were made one way. Meeting oncoming traffic would be next to nil which will increase the comfort factor for many drivers ergo faster average speeds in the absence of conflicting traffic flow.

Speed ramps?

folan

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Have to every driven down rugged lane and met an oncoming vehicle, especially a van or tractor?

yes. then again, im from rural ireland, so im perhaps more used to that scenario than others.

The reason i ask is im wondering if its down to evidence of a one way system making the road safer, which i would be skeptical of and would want to see some evidence of this happening elsewhere, or as some people have suggested to reduce speeds, which again i would be skeptical of.

If there is good reasoning behind it, id be all for it. otherwise, it would be both a waste of time and resources.

Codpeas

StrawDub wrote: »

Castleknock GAA would be fine if there was a one way system, the one way system could be implemented after their entrance before the first gate house on Somerton Lane. People could drive in drop their kids off and drive out.

Was just thinking the same thing.

Pinch Flat

folan wrote: »

yes. then again, im from rural ireland, so im perhaps more used to that scenario than others.

The reason i ask is im wondering if its down to evidence of a one way system making the road safer, which i would be skeptical of and would want to see some evidence of this happening elsewhere, or as some people have suggested to reduce speeds, which again i would be skeptical of.

If there is good reasoning behind it, id be all for it. otherwise, it would be both a waste of time and resources.

I've driven and cycled up and down it a umpteen of times in the 14 years I've lived nearby. In fact I'll avoid it now in the car because it's too narrow at one point for 2 cars to pass safely - as you're going down, it's about half way as the road turns towards the right. The exit to the strawberry beds is also restricted, especially if a car coming up has to swing wide to take the bend when travelling from Lucan direction.

It's not safe especially when a car coming up the hill decides to plough through regardless - or if a larger vehicle like a van or jcb uses it it's impossible to pass. I've seen a few minor collisions - wing mirrors, scratches and scrapes. And a few stand offs between cars at the very end - they've encountered each other but each thinks they can magically get by if the beep their horn relentlessly.

pondasher

Larbre34 wrote: »

Was Councillor O'Gorman's proposal adopted? If it wasn't then there's nothing more to it for the time being.

My understanding is that the council are investigating it

Codpeas

pondasher wrote: »

My understanding is that the council are investigating it

Some detail on this from fingalcoco.ie:

http://meetings.fingal.ie/documents/s12195/Item14.Ques.ROGorman.RuggedLane.TrafficCalming.pdf

Extract:

Question: Councillor R O Gorman
“To ask the Chief Executive would the Council consider the introduction of a one way
system applying to both Rugged Lane and Somerton Lane along the Liffey Valley in order to
minimize the damage being done to both narrow roads by the current level of traffic on
both?”
Reply:
This matter will be discussed with An Garda Siochána to determine if a trial one way
anticlockwise system could be implemented. The option would prohibit south bound entry
into Somerton Lane beyond the GAA pitches. The option would also prohibit access up
Rugged Lane from the Lower Road. Consultation with the residents would also be required.

pondasher

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I've driven and cycled up and down it a umpteen of times in the 14 years I've lived nearby. In fact I'll avoid it now in the car because it's too narrow at one point for 2 cars to pass safely - as you're going down, it's about half way as the road turns towards the right. The exit to the strawberry beds is also restricted, especially if a car coming up has to swing wide to take the bend when travelling from Lucan direction.

It's not safe especially when a car coming up the hill decides to plough through regardless - or if a larger vehicle like a van or jcb uses it it's impossible to pass. I've seen a few minor collisions - wing mirrors, scratches and scrapes. And a few stand offs between cars at the very end - they've encountered each other but each thinks they can magically get by if the beep their horn relentlessly.

The most reasonable approach to this for people living locally is to make both hills Local Access only. With the new road infrastructure in Porterstown there is no need to have these roads used as a 'rat run'. Though I realise enforcement may be an issue

pondasher

daymobrew wrote: »

15 minutes?? I could cycle the extra distance in that, including going up one of those hills. If you could only go up Somerton Lane I would expect that people will park in the Castleknock Hotel car park.

Both roads are very narrow, with only room for one car at points.

A few years ago I was doing some cycling hill training on both hills. It was about 8:30am. The speed at which people came down Rugged Lane was quite scary, with the drivers showing no thought about their inability to stop in an emergency.
I am always uncomfortable cycling up them because they are so narrow and many drivers impatient (for my own safety I generally pull in and let them pass), but they are the best hills in the area.

Having said all that, making them each one way would be annoying. Tinkers Hill is busier, shorter and therefore less attractive for training.

You obviously haven't been in the strawberry beds in peak morning traffic with seven schools within a short distance as well as commuters to work 15min is the good average

daymobrew

pondasher wrote: »

You obviously haven't been in the strawberry beds in peak morning traffic with seven schools within a short distance as well as commuters to work 15min is the good average

You mentioned 15 mins with respect to accessing the GAA pitches, not morning commute time.

Larbre34 wrote: »

I wouldnt be supportive of it. Getting a modern vehicle to stay at or under 30 km/h requires more concentration on the speedo than on the road ahead.

It only takes a little bit of practice to stay near enough 30. Gardai will likely not have speed cameras within the estates.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Regarding Diswellstown Road specifically, the only further speed abatement measure I can envisage is a brick wall built right across it.

The proposal is only for within residential estates. Diswellstown Road would be excluded.

pondasher

daymobrew wrote: »

You mentioned 15 mins with respect to accessing the GAA pitches, not morning commute time. It only takes a little bit of practice to stay near enough 30. Gardai will likely not have speed cameras within the estates. The proposal is only for within residential estates. Diswellstown Road would be excluded.

You're bring a little pedantic about the 15 mins delay bearing in mind it appears we are in total agreement about the issue

beauf

pondasher wrote: »

The most reasonable approach to this for people living locally is to make both hills Local Access only. With the new road infrastructure in Porterstown there is no need to have these roads used as a 'rat run'. Though I realise enforcement may be an issue

You mean the car park that the "new road infrastructure in Porterstown" is at peak. Because it as predicted it dragged traffic in from all over who use as a main commuting route now.

So they've made a couple of roads with 5 or 6 schools and lots of housing on it into a main commuting route. Its probably increased dramatically all the traffic on strawberry beds, Porterstown road etc.

This traffic shouldn't be coming down those roads in the morning, it should be directed out on to the M4 and M3. If there isn't capacity stop building a zillion houses where there isn't a transport network to handle it.

Toll the porterstown and strawbeds at peak have a pass for locals. That will stop any need for one way systems. Ramps are a miserable approach.

annfield1978

Actually email Fingal Co Co and local councillors about the state of the road between porterstown church and crunch westmanstown,
It would really benefit from improved line marking and perhaps some road studs to define the road edge, its really poor at the moment, particularily during the dark and wet nights we are having

beauf

That's because its a small country road not fit for the traffic being thrown at it.

This is all green belt. I can see at some point it will be replaced with a major road. It will still be bad traffic as the roads going in to town can't handle the volume.

I read somewhere that the main road in the Phoenix park handles 25% of the volume that the M50 bridge does. The bridge is what, 6 lanes?

pondasher

beauf wrote: »

You mean the car park that the "new road infrastructure in Porterstown" is at peak. Because it as predicted it dragged traffic in from all over who use as a main commuting route now.

So they've made a couple of roads with 5 or 6 schools and lots of housing on it into a main commuting route. Its probably increased dramatically all the traffic on strawberry beds, Porterstown road etc.

This traffic shouldn't be coming down those roads in the morning, it should be directed out on to the M4 and M3. If there isn't capacity stop building a zillion houses where there isn't a transport network to handle it.

Toll the porterstown and strawbeds at peak have a pass for locals. That will stop any need for one way systems. Ramps are a miserable approach.

Ramps aren't the answer and they are not a deterrent against people using the lanes as rat runs. I think tolling at peak times is unworkable due to the infrastructure required. It would solve the problem though.

daymobrew

pondasher wrote: »

You're bring a little pedantic about the 15 mins delay bearing in mind it appears we are in total agreement about the issue

I pointed it out because inaccurate comments undermine your other points.

Pinch Flat

pondasher wrote: »

Ramps aren't the answer and they are not a deterrent against people using the lanes as rat runs. I think tolling at peak times is unworkable due to the infrastructure required. It would solve the problem though.

Would disagree with that - Ramps imho are the only way of slowing down traffic - worked well on the strawberry beds - speed cushions, warning signs and digital displays don't work and are limited in what I see with speeding around there.

beauf

Ramps are unfortunately a necessary evil for kerbing speeding. Not rat running. Though have some small effect on that if people take a different route to avoid them.

The problem is that traffic from Lucan, Lexlip, Clonsilla and beyond etc traffic is rat running down these roads. The recent "improvements" have only encouraged this. While the option is available people won't move to other routes or forms of transport. or change their travel patterns.

doolox

People use the back roads to avoid the toll on the m50 which is far too dear for many drivers especially on a daily commute.

There is a real need for a road from Woodies junction at Ballydowd straight across the liffey to the road at Porterstown to continue straight onto Blanchardstown Centre.

While the opportunity for the Government to make money on the toll bridge exists this will not happen. They will do everything, including 19 ramps on the Strawberry beds lower Road, to push people onto the M50 and its tolls and its complicated junction layout.

You have to earn €40 pw gross to pay the €20 pw toll required on the M50 = €2k pa....a lot of money from ordinary peoples pockets.

This is why the Vesey Bridge in Lucan is so insanely busy at all times....there is no other crossing of the Liffey from Chapelizod to Leixlip except the toll bridge which every local driver seeks to avoid.

beauf

doolox wrote: »

....There is a real need for a road from Woodies junction at Ballydowd straight across the liffey to the road at Porterstown to continue straight onto Blanchardstown Centre.....

You want a 2nd mini M50 to avoid the M50. That then will become busy and poeple will rat run the smaller roads that are left. Its the slow erosion of the Green Belt in this area. Its relentless. The area is TOO SMALL, TOO CONFINED for this traffic. Its just building more roads in an area that naturally bottle-necked.

They need another ring road further out. To facilitate people in cars complaining about other people in cars.

Larbre34

Carrying on to Leixlip is quicker most of the time

ThisRegard

There's good reason why they don't want traffic around there. And the M50 and its junctions are far from complicated.