Business plan coffee shop

kaminu

I've a project of opening a Coffee shop / wine bar in Dublin. I need to put my ideas on paper and to create a good business plan so I can start looking for investor and finance.
The issue is that I have no idea where to start and would like someone to help me create the business plan. I know of the local enterprise board but I still find it difficult to put things together with their business plan template.

Anybody knows of a good business consultant in Dublin that could work with me on making a great business plan. Ideally someone who has previously done so for a coffee shop - food related business.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Damien

cabla

kaminu wrote: »

I've a project of opening a Coffee shop / wine bar in Dublin. I need to put my ideas on paper and to create a good business plan so I can start looking for investor and finance.
The issue is that I have no idea where to start and would like someone to help me create the business plan. I know of the local enterprise board but I still find it difficult to put things together with their business plan template.

Anybody knows of a good business consultant in Dublin that could work with me on making a great business plan. Ideally someone who has previously done so for a coffee shop - food related business.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Damien

Damien - best of luck with the venture.

Have you started anything business before? I think something like your idea is all about location really. There's so many coffee shops out there. Need something unique too. Hope you've got some cool ideas anyway.

smash

Honestly, your post reads like you have no idea what you're doing. Like you want to open a coffee shop/wine bar because you've seen others who are doing well.

Have you picked a location? Looked into costs? Done profit and loss projections? you can not expect other people to do all this for you.

ironclaw

smash wrote: »

Like you want to open a coffee shop/wine bar because you've seen others who are doing we

I was about to say a 10 mins walk from St. Stephens Green in Dublin you can have any wine or coffee you want. I'd consider it a saturated market. At least in that area.

bizzyb

I don't know this guy personally but follow him with great interest on twitter, he knows the industry inside out http://www.therestaurantdoctor.ie/

jimmii

ironclaw wrote: »

I was about to say a 10 mins walk from St. Stephens Green in Dublin you can have any wine or coffee you want. I'd consider it a saturated market. At least in that area.

Totally agree. You can barely go 50m in the city centre without passing a coffee shop.

I am near Brother Hubbard they're a really good example of the lengths you need to go to, to get ahead in the industry a standard coffee shop just doesn't cut it any more as people can walk a few more minutes and get a much more unique experience not to mention the ridiculous number of Starbucks we have now.

Bandara

No investor on earth is going to invest in a coffee shop.

And no bank on earth will give you any finance imo. If you were a seasoned proven operator with several other successful sites you may get 40-50% finance.

Don't enter one of the most competitive businesses if you havent a notion what your doing. You'll fail.

kaminu

Thank you all for your feedback. I do have a clear idea of the business I want to create and its location. I have a background as a Chef but won't give too much information on that aspect over a public forum.
I do appreciate all your comments but this is not really what I was asking for. I'm not asking wether or not it will be successful or if this is the right type of business to open at the moment. Neither for a good location.
I am looking for recommendations of someone that I could hire to create a business plan. Someone that you may have work with in the past or have heard of that could help me create a good business plan.

If you have any recommendation that would be great.
Many thanks
Damien

Bandara

Damien,

To be honest I think you are over estimating what you need to open your business

A business plan for something like a coffee shop is not really required in the way one is for bringing a new product to market or for setting up a niche enterprise.

It's not a reinvention of the wheel, the banks, investors, even customers all know what a coffee shop does and what they expect of one. Yes there a variances in the standards and offerings of coffee shops but it's fundamentally a established concept, with a number of expected variables between each one.

What any bank/investor is going to really want to know about, understand, and query is you. Are you capable, suitable and investable.

You don't need anymore than a short one page proposal focussing on your strengths and skills and a general concept of what your intending to differentiate from the other places that have failed, and you need to be able to communicate clearly and confidently why you won't fail.

I don't know if that's any help at all, but I just think a big bells and whistles proposal actually over complicates the idea, and would make me think you were a bit of a dreamer or a bit unsure of what your doing (no offence meant).

Good luck with it either way !

smash

kaminu wrote: »

Thank you all for your feedback. I do have a clear idea of the business I want to create and its location. I have a background as a Chef but won't give too much information on that aspect over a public forum.
I do appreciate all your comments but this is not really what I was asking for. I'm not asking wether or not it will be successful or if this is the right type of business to open at the moment. Neither for a good location.
I am looking for recommendations of someone that I could hire to create a business plan. Someone that you may have work with in the past or have heard of that could help me create a good business plan.

If you have any recommendation that would be great.
Many thanks
Damien

It really is up to you to come up with the basic plan, facts and figures, basic pest analysis and market analysis, profit and loss projections etc. you can then hire someone to make it more professional. But by no means can they create a business plan based on you saying that you want to open a cafe in a certain location.

JONJO THE MISER

The amount of negativity on here is unreal, always has been the case in Ireland, that will fail, never here such negativity in north America or Aus.
If most of the big tech start ups came on here for advice when they were starting out they would be told to not even bother.

Graham

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

The amount of negativity on here is unreal, always has been the case in Ireland, that will fail, never here such negativity in north America or Aus.
If most of the big tech start ups came on here for advice when they were starting out they would be told to not even bother.

OP appears to be well able to handle the negativity. If just one of those negative comments makes the OP think, re-think, tweak his plan for the better, they're a price worth paying.

Damien, there's a poster here, Yellow Sheep. He's given plenty of advice across food/restaurant related subjects. I'd recommend you search through his posts and maybe drop him a PM asking if he'd mind contributing to the thread.

token101

Out of pure interest, what would be personal start up costs for a venture like that? Assuming you were renting a premises & had standard amount of savings, say €10,000 cash in the bank/CU, would you have a hope of getting finance for the rest? I have no interest whatsoever, completely speculating!

ladiesman217

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

The amount of negativity on here is unreal, always has been the case in Ireland, that will fail, never here such negativity in north America or Aus.
If most of the big tech start ups came on here for advice when they were starting out they would be told to not even bother.

Totally agree, seems to be very common in this section. I was recently reading something on the founders of Airbnb, and like here they experienced total negativity towards their idea. Multiple VC just laugh at them, some even walking out of the meetings. But they believed in there product, and they were proven right in the end. I think they are valued around the 4 billion mark now. Just because something didn't work for one person there is no reason why it can't work for someone else, all depending on the angle on approach.

Regarding the business plan, I would use the business model canvas, will help you iterate quickly possible revenue streams value propositions, and other key elements.

There are many self made millionaires that were highly inexperienced but believed in what they were doing, remained "POSITIVE" ignored the moaning Marys, and were successful in the end. If these moaning Marys were VC's they'd never invest in anything.

Good luck with the business idea

pedronomix

ladiesman217 wrote: »

Totally agree, seems to be very common in this section. I was recently reading something on the founders of Airbnb, and like here they experienced total negativity towards their idea. Multiple VC just laugh at them, some even walking out of the meetings. But they believed in there product, and they were proven right in the end. I think they are valued around the 4 billion mark now. Just because something didn't work for one person there is no reason why it can't work for someone else, all depending on the angle on approach.

Regarding the business plan, I would use the business model canvas, will help you iterate quickly possible revenue streams value propositions, and other key elements.

There are many self made millionaires that were highly inexperienced but believed in what they were doing, remained "POSITIVE" ignored the moaning Marys, and were successful in the end. If these moaning Marys were VC's they'd never invest in anything.

Good luck with the business idea

It is oh so easy to quote the 00.01% of start-ups that make it big by name. You can bet your bottom dollar they were not using the likes of this board to refine their business modus operandi. There is more twaddle encouragement given on here than is at all healthy. Those that take the hump at realistic appraisal/critique/wake up reality calls are clearly not intrinsically suited to the task proposed. I for one am sick of this and all other Politically Correct bull****, claptrap and high babies encouragement! Just do not ask me what I really think!

Atomico

ladiesman217 wrote: »

Totally agree, seems to be very common in this section. I was recently reading something on the founders of Airbnb, and like here they experienced total negativity towards their idea. Multiple VC just laugh at them, some even walking out of the meetings. But they believed in there product, and they were proven right in the end. I think they are valued around the 4 billion mark now. Just because something didn't work for one person there is no reason why it can't work for someone else, all depending on the angle on approach.

Regarding the business plan, I would use the business model canvas, will help you iterate quickly possible revenue streams value propositions, and other key elements.

There are many self made millionaires that were highly inexperienced but believed in what they were doing, remained "POSITIVE" ignored the moaning Marys, and were successful in the end. If these moaning Marys were VC's they'd never invest in anything.

Good luck with the business idea

If Airbnb is an extremely niche idea that nobody had seriously tried before on a grand scale - and which the vast majority of people rejected - then what could be more the polar opposite than a coffee shop?

guitarrrszz

alot of foodie places now have subtle [or not so subtle] celebrity partners/investors. if you can go onto lovindublin.ie and find a page that does have 3FE, jamie heaslip or leinster rugby on it i will give you the funding myself :P

good luck with venture also!

jimmii

guitarrrszz wrote: »

alot of foodie places now have subtle [or not so subtle] celebrity partners/investors. if you can go onto lovindublin.ie and find a page that does have 3FE, jamie heaslip or leinster rugby on it i will give you the funding myself :P

good luck with venture also!

This page does have 3fe on it give me the funding!!

http://lovindublin.com/reviews/cafe/the-best-coffee-in-dublin-3fe

collegeme

The local enterprise website will have links to business plans. I followed one for structure and it gives a good foundation to build from.

protelos

I must concur that this forum tends to be a little negative from the out set. Picking holes instantly in idea's and proposals, surely this forum should be the place where silly idea's can be thrown around without the usual negativity and bar stool nay-sayers.

Why not give the OP what he asked for an answer to his question not "your a clown, good luck though!!".

In terms of any business, one can always bring a different slant and customer experience that can take market share, and funny enough i think coffee shops is one which could have an opportunity to be open to change.

I find the US coffee experience totally different to that of Ireland so a bit of a US influence could be a runner. Obviously there is a number of starbucks but they will not go into area's that a one man show could exploit.

For example if a person had opened an american style operation in Cork or Limerick a yr ago you would be doing ok!!

OP i do love doing an old biz plan have done loads for myself and for college before so i would love to help and it would be something i would love to do for you. Most of my experience is in fast food and my plans were in that area.

All feedback on my plans were positive in terms of financial awareness, market analysis and marketing, so if you want to get going message me.

PS as stated above the Enterprise board templates are good. I use Enterprise Ireland, template is a great one to use as a guideline, lots of sub headings to make that elephant somewhat digestible!

Buttercake

I think theres a fine line between "tough love" and negativity

A lot of boardies may have experience of these concepts or see it happen to others. While feedback might seem negative, it can be usually be priceless advice.

Starting a business is a very exciting time and some entrepreneurs can have their head in the clouds at the early stages, not in a bad way of course! but some will be determined to get their concept of the ground and wont listen to anyone else, I wish there was a resource like this when i was starting out

Mrs OBumble

I've never seen any negativity here. Only pragmatism.

pedronomix

I know that this is a forum used by people who often have little or no business experience. We also have a good few contributors who have a lot od experience and real life learned lessons. We also have a bunch of well intentioned do-gooders, who range from school kids to recently nursing mothers who want to baby related business stuff, all proffering useless, ignorant advice and encouragement to other misguided misfortunes. Throw in the recently converted online entrepreneurs who want to import several boxes of tat from China to make their fortune.
Many who come on here do so without any research undertaken... other than some demented notion that they want to run their own business and be their own boss..... and have some idea, but no substance, Having no experience or knowledge of the sector is a common characteristic. The best assistance they can get is to be subjected to proper and direct reality reality check by being asked the hard questions. The market will be many multiples more difficult than the challenges and queries posed on here.

The stark reality is that most of them have a better chance of winning the Lottery than making their idea a success. The real entrepreneurs will just take what is posted and get over it, and then get on with it. The last thing they need is unfounded and unwarranted encouragement from some of the ditzes that lurk in this space.

collegeme

pedronomix wrote: »

I know that this is a forum used by people who often have little or no business experience. We also have a good few contributors who have a lot od experience and real life learned lessons. We also have a bunch of well intentioned do-gooders, who range from school kids to recently nursing mothers who want to baby related business stuff, all proffering useless, ignorant advice and encouragement to other misguided misfortunes. Throw in the recently converted online entrepreneurs who want to import several boxes of tat from China to make their fortune.
Many who come on here do so without any research undertaken... other than some demented notion that they want to run their own business and be their own boss..... and have some idea, but no substance, Having no experience or knowledge of the sector is a common characteristic. The best assistance they can get is to be subjected to proper and direct reality reality check by being asked the hard questions. The market will be many multiples more difficult than the challenges and queries posed on here.

The stark reality is that most of them have a better chance of winning the Lottery than making their idea a success. The real entrepreneurs will just take what is posted and get over it, and then get on with it. The last thing they need is unfounded and unwarranted encouragement from some of the ditzes that lurk in this space.

"Real entrepreneurs" What are the characteristics of one?

Honest question, How do you know so much?

I find this forum excellent to read and your negativity shines all the way through.

pedronomix

collegeme wrote: »

"Real entrepreneurs" What are the characteristics of one?

Honest question, How do you know so much?

I find this forum excellent to read and your negativity shines all the way through.

40 years in business employing up to 120 people at the peak. I have made many millions (c20M) from hard work and knowing what I was doing. It would be reasonable to conclude that I could not and need not to give a sh*t. I started with nothing but do feel obliged to share what I know, based on real experience not just BS opinions. I have seen many of your posts and always thought they were those of someone who has yet to achieve much.

collegeme

pedronomix wrote: »

40 years in business employing up to 120 people at the peak. I have made many millions (c20M) from hard work and knowing what I was doing. It would be reasonable to conclude that I could not and need not to give a sh*t. I started with nothing but do feel obliged to share what I know, based on real experience not just BS opinions. I have seen many of your posts and always thought they were those of someone who has yet to achieve much.

I don't post here much so your thoughts are based on nothing more than a few paragraphs.
I'm sure when you were staring out 40 years ago, you would have used forums like this, had they been around.
I've achieved a lot in all aspects of life from education to family and possessions such as property etc. I don't claim to know everything and have no problem asking questions and getting opinions, or pointers in the right direction.
You might even be buying that bottle of Moet from me without knowing it.

pedronomix

I buy cases not bin ends!

BorneTobyWilde

Good coffee is key.
I guess in business plan you need to stand out from rest, why will it be a success . Has to be down to the coffee.
I'm guessing you have something up your sleeve regarding the coffee. If you think you can open a coffee shop and serve something of poor quality then forget it.
Just like a take-away people know the good from the bad. All about the taste.
I think that has to be key to the business plan. Along with much more of course..the finer details.

collegeme

pedronomix wrote: »

I buy cases not bin ends!

Very generous gift giver , i'll give you that.

smcgiff

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Good coffee is key.

Starbucks seems to do just fine with the muck they sell. Well, to me it tastes bland.

Re a business plan

First the negative, as said above you'll find it very hard to get funding from a bank for a start up café or wine bar, unless perhaps you have cache - such as being a celebrity. The chances of failure are too great.

However, you mentioned investors, so it could possibly be family. And while it may be family I'm sure they'd still like a business plan.

A business plan will detail what your business is about, be it selling a relaxing environment where you can rest while sipping a pleasing beverage or place you stay as short a time as possible to refuel.

It will also detail why your relaxing environment... will be successful and why it can compete with those providing similar services in your area. It will detail why YOU are the person to manage this service.

It will detail how you intend to market your service, which includes store layout, USP if possible, and how you will attract customers. Location is of course important. No point setting up a high class coffee house in the middle of social housing. However you need to balance this with the knowledge that an excellent location will cost more.

It will list all the resources you need such as Finance (Fixed capital and working capital), levels of staff, products and type of service. Whether you are considering franchise or going alone.

Are you aiming at high cost/high charge or lower cost/lower charge service?

List out out your objectives, what do you plan to achieve. i.e. Breakeven by year 1, achieve 70% seat occupancy by month 9 etc.

You then need to get down to the nitty gritty, how much will your rent cost, your store fit out. How many staff and staff costs will there be. What do you expect your produce will cost. How much will staff training, insurance,
rates, water charges etc cost. How much will your margin be. How much will you charge for your products.

How many meals do you expect to sell per week/month for the next year.

From this you'll be able to develop a proposed income and expenditure account (P&L), Balance Sheet and cash flows.

You'll need to balance being realistic - otherwise the information is useless, but also attractive enough to interest investors.

You'll also need to factor in how you will repay the finance you receive from your investor/bank. Don't forget to factor in what you pay yourself.

Detail your senior management team, even if that's only yourself. Do a brief resume of your skills. Why are you key to this vision? What do you bring to the table, such as your experience as a chef.

What computer/IT systems do you require, what outside services do you require, book-keeper.

A business plan is usually 3 to 5 years long (The plan for the immediate year is typically called a budget).

I've jumped around a small bit, but the above will get you started. I've probably missed sections which others may spot.

bizzyb

Great post smcgiff, this is a good thread apart from the usual non related "I am better than you" childish bickering.

pedronomix

The idea being floated here is simply quite fanciful. Coffee shops and the like can, at best, produce a living for the person running it. Notions of attracting investors other than benign family members are off the wall. Any hope of raising any bank finance would require guarantees from individuals with clear ability to pay up in borrower default. Rent/rates overheads in decent locations are on an upward trend.
The OP would be best advised to identify actual available providers of finance for the proposed venture before just wasting a lot of time and effort on a fully worked business plan that may never get any serious attention from any investor/lender. The most important aspect of a business plan is the concept/idea/USP and the talent/ability of the promoter to deliver. The paper plan just puts the numbers on it and as such it is merely an attempt to predict the future. It will also flush out any waffle and affords somebody who knows what they are at, an opportunity to demonstrate their business nous. It also makes the promoter come to terms with ALL of the costs involved with definite figures.

pedroeibar1

The comments posted above by smcgiff are useful/helpful for a business plan but do not address the initial request - the OP said he wanted to open a Coffee shop / wine bar in Dublin, had no idea on how to put the ideas on paper and found it difficult to put things together with the LEO template, and needed help from an outsider to write the Business Plan.

There are lots of people out there who will take his money to write a business plan, they will put in fancy graphs, charts, spreadsheets, statistics, footfall, covers, stockturn, whatever, but get him finance from professional investors….. nope, not a hope on what he has written, which is why he received alternative advice from some. He should do his own first draft business plan, it will keep him focussed and he will see weaknesses/strengths.

For any start-up the ‘business package’ (including the owner) is the plan, as Bandara and Pedronomix have already pointed out. Outsourcing the initial few drafts is removing the promoter from the equation and OP will miss learning opportunities.

What OP should realise is that coffee shops have the highest failure rate of all businesses and consequently require the highest amounts of promoter equity (lack of which is why most fail). Why is he planning a coffee shop and a wine bar when they are completely different businesses and require different skills (and often locations)? The very fact that OP has to post a request that is so basic is an indicator that (a) he has insufficient business knowledge (b) has not put sufficient thought into the process and (c) wants to off-load homework. All reasons for him to bring the BP beyond first draft.

Someone on a first project, with little/no money, no complementary skillsets (he's a chef, so he is back office, not front of house), and no idea of how to put a basic business proposition on paper, has huge odds to overcome and a fancy BP is the least of his worries. One look at a BP that has insufficient promoter’s equity, no matter how well it is dressed up, and it will be blown out of the water. A successful BP is not how a concept is dressed up on paper, it is a complete package that jumps off the page.

It is BS for posters to offer encouragement, to talk about ‘raising finance’ and ‘celebrity investors’. Talk of ‘guarantors’ is not helpful either, because they only come into the equation when the business has demonstrable repayment ability but the security is weak. No bank first looks at the strength of guarantors, it looks at the promoter, business concept, and repayment ability. Security comes last, because it is a "given". Borrow from friends and he will lose them as friends.

A bucket of organic fertilizer, covered in glitzy paper, fancy bows and bells and sprayed with Chanel No.5 still remains what it is. And a professional will get the real smell from a mile away.

Positive advice, perceive it negatively if you wish.

Buttercake

While a business plan can be used for financing, it should be used for organisation and planning. Someone starting out may not have the skills to formulate a plan from Executive summary to Financial projections, it doesn't mean their idea/concept is flawed. I know one very successful restauranter in dublin who is dyslexic, he will happily admit he cannot write a sentence never mind a business plan but he will tell you why his next restaurant will be a success or his plans to start a new one.

There are plenty of creative people out there with great ideas but no clue of writing a business plan. The prehistoric one on LEO is no use. From what i can see, the OP was looking for someone to sit down and hand hold through the elements of the business plan, nothing wrong with that.

pedroeibar1

Buttercake wrote: »

While a business plan can be used for financing, it should be used for organisation and planning. Someone starting out may not have the skills to formulate a plan from Executive summary to Financial projections, it doesn't mean their idea/concept is flawed. I know one very successful restauranter in dublin who is dyslexic, he will happily admit he cannot write a sentence never mind a business plan but he will tell you why his next restaurant will be a success or his plans to start a new one.

There are plenty of creative people out there with great ideas but no clue of writing a business plan. The prehistoric one on LEO is no use. From what i can see, the OP was looking for someone to sit down and hand hold through the elements of the business plan, nothing wrong with that.

Totally in agreement with “While a business plan can be used for financing, it should be used for organisation and planning” which is why I’m responding because it is applicable to any start-up. Being able to write a plan shows the ability to think analytically which means that when something does go wrong ‘down the road’ (as it inevitably will) the owner will be able to identify the problem and take educated remedial action.

That is why I said the OP needs to put the initial plan down on paper himself – it’s a learning curve he must go through. Plus it will give him a better baseline and any good advisor would want an initial draft to work from. So it will save him a few grand in consultancy fees. A poor advisor would be happy to do donkeywork, take that cash and put useless blather down on paper.

The OP talks about a coffee bar and a wine bar - why? Different business models, concepts, skills, different premises / fit-out requirements and often different locations to optimise customer traffic. On top of that a licence for a wine bar costs about four grand (after several more grand in fees for architects, fire inspections and solicitor & court application fees, plus time delays and hassle with tax clearance certs.)

As he’s a chef I’d expect the OP to know something about wine, but for a good ‘stand-out’ wine bar does he know enough to discuss the different characteristics of the chardonnay grape used in Chablis, Meursault or New World wines? Or sauvignon blanc in Sancerre, or Pouilly Fume or the wines from Marlborough? If he doesn’t have that knowledge he’s just opening a pub with a very limited product range. Or does he expect (dangerous) just to have the silly idiots who shift with the fashion from chardonnay to sauvignon blanc to pinot bloody grigio and prosecco? (Anyone know what the next one will be?)

I agree there are creative dyslexic people out there with great foody ideas, but this is neither 'foody' nor Taillevent nor el Bulli, it is a start-up business plan for a local ‘premises’. So no, I don’t agree with much of the rest of what you wrote, because I think the concept IS flawed as proposed and much as they are nice, your kind words will not change that.

brianblaze

I'm about 3 weeks from opening a cafe and by far the hardest thing was writing the Business Plan and Financial Forecasts etc. Realistically though, it helped me organise and finalise my plans for myself. I've a lot of experience in the commercial side of business so that helped enormously.

There's also a tonne of YouTube videos that helped, especially with the financial forecasting etc. I didn't really need to do the plan but it did make me extend my research a bit more and to think more analytically about what can often be a 'dreamer' approach to opening a business.

Your local Enterprise Board will be a big help in terms of supplying templates and supports, but I wouldn't fool myself by thinking there's investors tripping over themselves to get involved. A good cafe will yield a small annual profit, but not enough for an investor to dump money in, especially in Dublin.

My adice is go to your Enterprise Board, get some solid advice then look at either raising the capital yourself or from family etc. Banks are lending but not really in the café space I'd imagine. Best of luck though!

LHPHB

cabla wrote: »

Damien - best of luck with the venture.

Have you started anything business before? I think something like your idea is all about location really. There's so many coffee shops out there. Need something unique too. Hope you've got some cool ideas anyway.

Would have to agree with this, I was at the AIB Start-up Academy a while back and Bobby Kerr was the guest speaker, he said he had many ventures with coffee that ended in disaster because of location, to name one of his ventures was the Manchester United cafe or shop that was on nassau street i think, didnt last very long but united still hold the rights and lease to the place to this day, still paying rent and the place is empty.

brianblaze

Location, Location, Location! 100%