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M3 Corridor (Routes 109 & 111) - Proposed Changes

  • 07-01-2015 1:02pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,295 ✭✭✭✭


    From Bus Éireann's website: http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1675&month=Jan
    Bus Éireann asks customers to view our service proposals on the M3 Corridor (Routes 109 & 111).
    We value customer feedback and invite you to submit your comments on these proposals.


    Is this a first, have they ever officially consulted on proposed changed before?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There was a consultation on the public transport network in Mayo in October.

    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/review-of-public-transport-services-in-mayo-3/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭tara83


    Am I reading this wrong or is the Dunshaughlin frequency moving from at least 3 an hour to 2? Also no confirmation of the peak service.

    Still no Express i.e. direct through M3 or Port Tunnel for Dunshaughlin commuters. I'm really starting to think Bus Eireann doesn't want to provide a service for Dunshughlin commuters.

    Very frustrating if they are proposing reductions and no improvements.

    Looks like an improvement for the likes of Navan


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 453 ✭✭pclive


    Im not sure about using the Port tunnel/M50 on some of the journeys, as the M50 is getting more congested will this option not be slower than going out the Navan Road?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    pclive wrote: »
    Im not sure about using the Port tunnel/M50 on some of the journeys, as the M50 is getting more congested will this option not be slower than going out the Navan Road?



    Read the other 109/109A thread - I think that will justify the re-routing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭Andru93


    Not really please on their idea for the Trim / Athboy to Dublin route.
    Looks like we're getting the short straw in this little deal while Navan routes gets improved we're getting downgraded!

    People living in Batterstown will lose services completely except for those in the morning / evening commuter services and knowing Bus Eireann its going to be one bus each way per day at an awkward time.

    Bus Eireann struggles to be punctual at the best of times, so I really don't know how their going to get this route on that 65 minutes mark from Trim to Dublin.

    This is 5 minutes slower than the current route yet doing a quick look up on google maps there is a good 7 minutes difference between the routes when there isn't traffic. (44min vs 51min / old route vs proposed route)

    Best of all the Athboy service frequency drops to every two hours instead of the current hourly service!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Thank god there is going to be more Cavan buses using the M3. Was getting sick of 3 hour journeys on some days from Cavan to Dublin and vice versa


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I don't use the M3 routes, as Ashbourne is not really served by them, but I've said it before, and will probably still be saying it for the next 20 years (If I live that long), their whole strategy of the M3 routes has it's head where the sun doesn't shine, in that they have another service that could cover the Dublin to m3 Parkway section, with all of the longer distance services only making one stop at M3 (Clonee) Parkway, and interconnecting with the 105 (Dublin Ratoath/Ashbourne) service at that point, which would cover the Blanchardstown shopping connection, which seems to be a major bone of contention for many users, and also places on the existing route, like the Mater hospital. All the longer distance services should be M50/DPT routed.

    That said, with the way things are now, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath & Ashbourne services (103 & 105) should really be Dublin Bus operated, with more cross city connections via M3 (Clonee) Parkway to areas such as Sandyford, City West and Tallaght, being that there is significant employment in all of those areas, and interconnections using the Clonee Parkway location as an interchange between the routes. It would make more sense for some of the 105's to go to Ratoath via Dunshaughlin, with an improved frequency on that route, to better cover the demand there.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    .

    That said, with the way things are now, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath & Ashbourne services (103 & 105) should really be Dublin Bus operated, with more cross city connections via M3 Parkway to areas such as Sandyford, City West and Tallaght, being that there is significant employment in all of those areas, and interconnections using the Clonee Parkway location as an interchange between the routes. It would make more sense for some of the 105's to go to Ratoath via Dunshaughlin, with an improved frequency on that route, to better cover the demand there.

    Apart from underlining the reality of these locations having been essentially a part of greater Dublin for many years now,I reckon Irish Steve could have something here !!! ;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    Current loading from Dunshaughlin are very good - let's hope the peak service maintains current levels!

    I agree in principal about Dunshaughlin, Ratoath and Ashbourne being more natural Dublin Bus areas now.

    The only drawback is that passengers would then have to travel "all stops" within Dublin, greatly extending journey time (see routes 33, 65, 66 etc).

    Ideally services should be run by Dublin Bus and within their fare system, but as "X" services at all times, with set down only in city limits, as indeed should the 33 (from Swords inbound) 65 (from Embankment inbound) and 66 (from Palmerstown inbound) be.

    C635


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    A couple of other journey possibilities are opened by these plans - Trim will now be linked to Dunshaughlin, which wasn't possible before.

    This will provide a link into the 109A facilitating trips from Trim to Dublin Airport, although this will of course be dependent on the connecting times.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I don't use the M3 routes, as Ashbourne is not really served by them, but I've said it before, and will probably still be saying it for the next 20 years (If I live that long), their whole strategy of the M3 routes has it's head where the sun doesn't shine, in that they have another service that could cover the Dublin to m3 Parkway section, with all of the longer distance services only making one stop at M3 (Clonee) Parkway, and interconnecting with the 105 (Dublin Ratoath/Ashbourne) service at that point, which would cover the Blanchardstown shopping connection, which seems to be a major bone of contention for many users, and also places on the existing route, like the Mater hospital. All the longer distance services should be M50/DPT routed.

    That said, with the way things are now, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath & Ashbourne services (103 & 105) should really be Dublin Bus operated, with more cross city connections via M3 (Clonee) Parkway to areas such as Sandyford, City West and Tallaght, being that there is significant employment in all of those areas, and interconnections using the Clonee Parkway location as an interchange between the routes. It would make more sense for some of the 105's to go to Ratoath via Dunshaughlin, with an improved frequency on that route, to better cover the demand there.

    I think orbital services in general need improving, particularly in west Dublin before we start thinking about specific services connecting with Bus Eireann services.

    Unfortunately for your theory, people are far more reluctant to make journeys by public transport where they involve 2 or more buses.

    Also, using your example, what would happen if one of the buses is running late? Does the second bus then wait until the first one arrives and thereby runs late itself, or does it leave on time, meaning people have to wait for the next one.

    As it is people can connect at Blanchardstown into the Dublin Bus routes 17a, 220, 236 and 238 that operate around the business parks in the Blanchardstown area.

    You also need to realise that it is exceptionally difficult to plan orbital services. Unlike radial journeys where people are generally travelling to/from locations along the corridor, most orbital journeys are specific to each individual. In other words, people are starting and finishing from totally different locations - trying to plan bus routes around that is really difficult.

    All you can do is provide routes that link the major traffic generators, namely hospitals, shopping centres, colleges and business parks. That's the only way that such a route will be in any way economic. The 17a is a good example of a route that does that.

    There were plans for overhauling the orbital routes as part of Network Direct, but funding shortfalls meant that these have yet to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 commuter29000


    So under the new plans passengers living beyond Trim will have to change services to get into Dublin, currently buses run direct to Athboy every hour and at peak half hour. The new interconnecting service from Trim to Athboy/Cavan will only operate every 2 hours, which is a substantial downgrade. With the Trim buses operating via Dunshaughlin no buses will serve the Batterstown area between the Drumree roundabout and the Fairyhouse roundabout. The proposed Navan service every 20 minutes not serving Dunshaughlin is not sustainable. The stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin (St.Columbans, Garlow Cross, Tara Cross, Lismullen, Rosscross and Killeen Cross) are currently every 30 minutes off peak and every 15 minutes during peak times. Under the new plans these stops will be served just once an hour. In the leaflet it says additional services will run at peak but does not give a definite frequency. Surely one of the Navan express services could run via the old N3 to service all these stops to retain its current level of service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    So under the new plans passengers living beyond Trim will have to change services to get into Dublin, <snip>.
    not necessarily.
    For Athboy : 1 service to Trim every 2 hours, connects to Trim-Dublin service
    Additional direct morning and evening peak services to/from Dublin
    Kildalkey served on additional peak services
    So any reduction in service frequency and inconvience is essentially on off peak services.

    you also say the stops en route between navan and Dunshaughlin on the "old road" will only be served every hour.
    Actually, they'll still have a service every half hour between Navan and Dunshaughlin, a 109 and a 109A.
    The expresses will still pass by the Ardboyne (you would think)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭tara83


    not necessarily.


    So any reduction in service frequency and inconvience is essentially on off peak services.

    you also say the stops en route between navan and Dunshaughlin on the "old road" will only be served every hour.
    Actually, they'll still have a service every half hour between Navan and Dunshaughlin, a 109 and a 109A.
    The expresses will still pass by the Ardboyne (you would think)

    The 109a will not get people to Dublin CC the main destination for passengers. It would seem those between Navan and Dunshaughlin are losing from 3 buses to 1 an hour. Given the poor punctuality of non peak time buses it adds a large amount of buffer time for these passengers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    But I'd have to ask how many people are using the 109 from those stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin in the off-peak?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭tara83


    lxflyer wrote: »
    But I'd have to ask how many people are using the 109 from those stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin in the off-peak?

    Quite a few people especially at Garlow and Ross Cross. It's not apparent either which bus will provide the peak time service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    tara83 wrote: »
    Quite a few people especially at Garlow and Ross Cross. It's not apparent either which bus will provide the peak time service.
    still, with 2 busses on that road there'll be 120 odd bus seats per hour heading Dublin bound with the possibility of a change to the Trim-Dublin bus in Dunshaughlin should they really need to get to the centre off the 109A.

    Or should they be (as i suspect) being left to the cross by car, then they can (and likely will) opt for the express service from Ardboyne 2 minutes up the road and suddenly the demand will evaporate from the stops along the old road as theres a better option convienently located a short spin away a little closer to Navan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 commuter29000


    lxflyer wrote: »
    But I'd have to ask how many people are using the 109 from those stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin in the off-peak?

    How will Navan justify buses every 20 minutes to express Dublin at off-peak? I can't see full coaches leaving Navan every 20 minutes all day long. Surely it would not inconvenience these passengers on the Navan services to call at Garlow Cross and Rosscross? Even if it was only 1 in 3 of the services it would bring Ross Cross and Garlow back to a 30 minute frequency.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    How will Navan justify buses every 20 minutes to express Dublin at off-peak? I can't see full coaches leaving Navan every 20 minutes all day long. Surely it would not inconvenience these passengers on the Navan services to call at Garlow Cross and Rosscross? Even if it was only 1 in 3 of the services it would bring Ross Cross and Garlow back to a 30 minute frequency.

    I'm just posing the question.

    How many people an hour are getting on/off at those stops in the off peak?

    There are plenty of options here - it's up to the people concerned to make submissions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Colm R


    Whatever about the frequency at the various places and towns along the various routes, at least they are keeping routes open.
    However, Batterstown is the biggest looser here.

    Also, a bus at the Drumree roundabout will get to Fairyhouse faster through Batterstown than it would via Dunshaughlin, so essentially the journey time to Dublin is being increased.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 commuter29000


    Rosscross is a busy stop and has footpaths, bus shelter and a carpark. The majority of services would call there to pick up/ let off passengers and has always been one of the more important stops outside of the main towns. About 3-4 people per bus would exit at non peak. So surprised they are thinking of downgrading it service. It even has its own next stop announcement like Dunshaughlin, Bus Aras and O'Connell Street which are only played at main stops ;) Killeen Cross is rarely used and doesn't even have a bus stop pole. I can't speak for the other stops heading towards Navan as I don't use that part of the route.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 Deutschbahn


    My suggestion:

    109X Dublin-Busaras-Kells-Virginia-Cavan Departs at :40 past (Expressway type Bus)

    109C Dublin-Busaras-Blanchardstown-M3 Parkway-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells Departs 00 & 30. 00 service interconnects for Cavan bus at Kells. (Double Deck Berghof)

    109A Trim-Navan-Dunshaughlin-Rathoath-Dublin Airport-DCU-Wilton Terrace (Volvo Coach)

    111 M3 Parkway-Batterstown-Trim-Athboy (Single VLD Berghof/Wright single deck) Would Interconnect with 30 service from 109C at M3 Parkway.

    Advantage: Kells Virginia Cavan have Motorway, Frequency still retained for stops from Navan inbound,Batterstown is still retained with hourly service with a quick changeover in M3 Parkway. Passengers from Navan wishing to go to Cavan get on the 00 Busaras service interconnects with the 40 past 109X in Kells. It gives the 00 109C a 40 minute clearance for the interconnecting at Kells.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Colm R wrote: »
    Whatever about the frequency at the various places and towns along the various routes, at least they are keeping routes open.
    However, Batterstown is the biggest looser here.

    Also, a bus at the Drumree roundabout will get to Fairyhouse faster through Batterstown than it would via Dunshaughlin, so essentially the journey time to Dublin is being increased.

    The other loss in the proposed changes is that there is no mention - in the details in the booklet about the five proposed routes - of a direct service between Cavan and Navan and Dunshaughlin.

    http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1420620583-M3-Corridor.pdf

    If that change is made, then anyone at Navan or Dunshaughlin going to Virginia or Cavan, would have to get a bus to Kells, and hope that both buses run on time, all the time, to make their connection for the other 109 going to Virginia and Cavan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    My suggestion:

    109X Dublin-Busaras-Kells-Virginia-Cavan Departs at :40 past (Expressway type Bus)

    109C Dublin-Busaras-Blanchardstown-M3 Parkway-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells Departs 00 & 30. 00 service interconnects for Cavan bus at Kells. (Double Deck Berghof)

    109A Trim-Navan-Dunshaughlin-Rathoath-Dublin Airport-DCU-Wilton Terrace (Volvo Coach)

    111 M3 Parkway-Batterstown-Trim-Athboy (Single VLD Berghof/Wright single deck) Would Interconnect with 30 service from 109C at M3 Parkway.
    The issue particularly with then109x & 109c is that when the slower bus hits traffic it is not going to make the connection with the express bus. Passengers willthen have about an hour to wait for the next connection.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 jledden


    The Buses will no longer be travelling through BAtterstown and this will be a huge loss to the community. Anyone wishing to travel after 10am or come home after 7pm will not get a bus to take them to BAtterstown etc. We need to oppose this change and keep the service as it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    You know its going to be bad when they openly advertise that their service (from Trim in this case) will take even longer to get to Dublin.

    Not a fan of the proposal at all, not only because it will take longer to get from Trim to Dublin, but in the evenings the bus will be a lot more full as it will have to handle all passengers for Trim, Athboy, and Dunshaughlin, plus those who park at places like Kiltale and Scurloughstown.

    I'm not sure what exact route the bus will take through Dunshaughlin, but I have a feeling that the bus (coming from Trim) turning off at the Drumree roundabout, driving up the R125 and over the M3, then doing a loop of Dunshaughlin before turning back and going onto the M3 will add a lot more than 5 minutes they claim to the journey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Colm R


    I'm not sure what exact route the bus will take through Dunshaughlin, but I have a feeling that the bus (coming from Trim) turning off at the Drumree roundabout, driving up the R125 and over the M3, then doing a loop of Dunshaughlin before turning back and going onto the M3 will add a lot more than 5 minutes they claim to the journey.

    Thats the only route it can take. It can't go through Drumree itself as the road from there up to Dunshaughlin is too narrow for a bus.

    I mentioned last week to the guy in the shop in Batterstown about this, and he said he had heard and was putting up posters. This morning he mentioned to me that it was confirmed to them (not sure how) that it would be one bus in the morning and one in the evening to Batterstown.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭chewed


    Colm R wrote: »
    Thats the only route it can take. It can't go through Drumree itself as the road from there up to Dunshaughlin is too narrow for a bus.

    I mentioned last week to the guy in the shop in Batterstown about this, and he said he had heard and was putting up posters. This morning he mentioned to me that it was confirmed to them (not sure how) that it would be one bus in the morning and one in the evening to Batterstown.

    In the proposal, it does not mention the M3 for the new Trim/Dunshaughlin/Dublin route. So I assume that it will go through the village and straight down the R147.

    As a frequent 111 commuter, my biggest concern will be the amount of people boarding the evening buses from Busaras! If the majority of buses are going through Dunshaughlin, this will increase numbers dramatically, most likely leaving passengers behind!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 jledden


    people have a human right to have public travel in order to get them to work and for socio-economic reasons. Govt policy is directed at getting commuters out of cars and onto public transport yet people in the Drumree-Fairyhouse road will now have to buy a car and drive to work. More cost and expense for them. This service is a vital link for commuters and must not change


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    jledden wrote: »
    people have a human right to have public travel
    LOL. You might have an argument but you've undermined yourself terribly here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,944 ✭✭✭thomasj


    After tonights journey home, I can understand all to well why you want more buses avoiding the navan road.

    Tonights crash at the m50 blanchardstown junction, brought back memories of Christmas with bumper to bumper traffic back to the halfway house.

    On a 70 bus to dunboyne had to head down the auburn avenue (about 10 minutes stuck at lights ), castleknock village, blanchardstown village and then on. Funnily enough, I think we were faster than those still stuck on the navan road

    Phoenix park would be a good backup plan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭chewed


    I just got a reply from BE after l submitted some comments on the 111 proposed changes (see below). So it should be good news to passengers in Batterstown that the morning and evening peak services will still pass through the village!

    Dear Customer,

    Firstly we would like to thank you for your welcome feedback in relation to our proposed changes to routes along the M3 corridor, including Route 111.

    In light of your feedback we would like to provide the following additional information:

    · Services between Trim and Dublin will continue to operate via Batterstown in the morning and evening peak.


    · We will continue to provide off-peak weekday services linking Batterstown to Dublin, however, these may not originate in Trim. We will continue to operate services via Batterstown at weekends.

    · We are examining the possibility of operating some peak weekday services from Trim directly to Dublin and return via the M3 motorway from the Dunshaughlin M3 interchange.

    · It is planned to operate off-peak services to and from Trim via Dunshaughlin due to low passenger numbers to both Dunshaughlin and Trim at these times. This will also provide a direct link to the major Meath towns of Dunshaughlin and Trim.

    · We are also examining the feasibility of linking Kilmessan and Dunsaney into the wider public transport network, including Dublin, on a regular basis.


    Following the completion of this consultation process, Bus Éireann in conjunction with the National Transport Authority, will produce a final proposal, taking into account all feedback and suggestions in relation to frequency, routings and timetables. The closing date for submissions is Wednesday 21st January 2015.

    Bus Éireann Network Review Team


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    chewed wrote: »
    I just got a reply from BE after l submitted some comments on the 111 proposed changes (see below). So it should be good news to passengers in Batterstown that the morning and evening peak services will still pass through the village!

    When Bus Éireann states "we will continue to provide off-peak weekday services linking Batterstown to Dublin, however, these may not originate in Trim. We will continue to operate services via Batterstown at weekends",

    I'm wondering what other service other than the 111, is Bus Éireann proposing would go through Batterstown? Is Bus Éireann referring to the services, mentioned in the leaflet, that will start in Kildalkey?

    Why wasn't it stated in the leaflet that they will continue to provide off-peak weekday services linking Batterstown to Dublin?

    In the proposals, Bus Éireann states "Services between Trim and Dublin will continue to operate via Batterstown in the morning and evening peak".

    Does that mean that it may be just one of the 111 buses from Trim, up in the morning, that will serve Batterstown to Dublin, and one back in the evening?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    When Bus Éireann states "we will continue to provide off-peak weekday services linking Batterstown to Dublin, however, these may not originate in Trim. We will continue to operate services via Batterstown at weekends",

    I'm wondering what other service other than the 111, is Bus Éireann proposing would go through Batterstown? Is Bus Éireann referring to the services, mentioned in the leaflet, that will start in Kildalkey?

    Why wasn't it stated in the leaflet that they will continue to provide off-peak weekday services linking Batterstown to Dublin?

    In the proposals, Bus Éireann states "Services between Trim and Dublin will continue to operate via Batterstown in the morning and evening peak".

    Does that mean that it may be just one of the 111 buses from Trim, up in the morning, that will serve Batterstown to Dublin, and one back in the evening?



    I imagine there is some fluidity in the plans and that based on the responses the plans can and may well change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    The original document has gone AWOL in the rejig of the bus eireann website, so I found a copy on the meath CC website, so uploaded it here for safe keeping

    Is there any logical reason why the changes arent being implemented yet?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Unfortunately network changes do take a considerable time to implement - that's why they don't happen that often!!

    First of all there was the consultation - analysing the results of that would have taken some time.

    Whatever the final decision is would then have an impact on fleet requirements - the proposals as they stood originally would require a significant number of extra buses to be added to the fleet. The first of the new 2015 tranche of PSO funded double decks are now only entering into service.

    Then whenever new schedules are needed that also requires new driver rosters and in this case new drivers. New rosters means negotiations with the unions which can last some time as well.

    So yes, there are a multitude of reasons why it can take time to implement changes unfortunately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    lxflyer wrote: »
    <snip>

    Whatever the final decision is would then have an impact on fleet requirements - the proposals as they stood originally would require a significant number of extra buses to be added to the fleet. The first of the new 2015 tranche of PSO funded double decks are now only entering into service.
    .
    how would that be though seeing as the currrent service sees busses making the journey from Dublin to Navan in over 2hours at times, so getting those busses to Navan in 1 hour (simplifying things greatly) doubles the number of busses available without actually having to spend any cash aside from driver bribes to operate the service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Unfortunately network changes do take a considerable time to implement - that's why they don't happen that often!!

    First of all there was the consultation - analysing the results of that would have taken some time.

    Whatever the final decision is would then have an impact on fleet requirements - the proposals as they stood originally would require a significant number of extra buses to be added to the fleet.
    The first of the new 2015 tranche of PSO funded double decks are now only entering into service.

    Then whenever new schedules are needed that also requires new driver rosters and in this case new drivers. New rosters means negotiations with the unions which can last some time as well.

    So yes, there are a multitude of reasons why it can take time to implement changes unfortunately.

    I guess, unless they add buses to the services where proposed changes were suggested, it would mean a lot less services to and from other areas.

    One of the proposals is to have express services every 20 minutes throughout the day to and from Navan and Dublin, so unless Bus Éireann adds buses to the daily services, if they implement these express Navan Dublin services, I guess that would mean a reduction in services from places like Kells and Dunshaughlin to and from Dublin.

    If Bus Éireann does start running express services to and from Navan and Dublin throughout the whole day, that don't stop anywhere in between, I'm not sure that there would enough people at Navan at any one time, later on in the day, going to Dublin on each of the various express services proposed, to fill the buses, that would merit not stopping at any of the intermediate stops between Navan and Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    how would that be though seeing as the currrent service sees busses making the journey from Dublin to Navan in over 2hours at times, so getting those busses to Navan in 1 hour (simplifying things greatly) doubles the number of busses available without actually having to spend any cash aside from driver bribes to operate the service.

    I'm looking at the core frequency proposals over the entire day, rather than just peak journey times (Dublin-Navan is 75 minutes off-peak).

    Currently the service pattern is:
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Navan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells
    1 bus per hour Dublin-M3-Navan-Kells-Virginia-Cavan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Trim-Athboy
    1 bus per hour Dublin Airport-DCU-Ashbourne-Ratoath-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells
    4 buses per day Athboy-Granard-Cavan

    The proposed changes would mean:
    3 buses per hour Dublin-M3-Navan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells
    1 bus per hour Dublin-M3-Kells-Virginia-Cavan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Trim
    1 bus per hour Dublin Airport-DCU-Ashbourne-Ratoath-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells
    1 bus every 2 hours Trim-Athboy-Granard-Cavan

    To operate that level of service will require additional vehicles (and drivers) over the number currently deployed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I'm looking at the core frequency proposals over the entire day, rather than just peak journey times (Dublin-Navan is 75 minutes off-peak).

    Currently the service pattern is:
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Navan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells
    1 bus per hour Dublin-M3-Navan-Kells-Virginia-Cavan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Trim-Athboy
    1 bus per hour Dublin Airport-DCU-Ashbourne-Ratoath-Dunshaughlin-Kells
    4 buses per day Athboy-Granard-Cavan

    The proposed changes would mean:
    3 buses per hour Dublin-M3-Navan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Navan-Kells
    1 bus per hour Dublin-M3-Kells-Virginia-Cavan
    1 bus per hour Dublin-Dunshaughlin-Trim
    1 bus per hour Dublin Airport-DCU-Ashbourne-Ratoath-Dunshaughlin-Kells
    1 bus every 2 hours Trim-Athboy-Granard-Cavan

    To operate that level of service will require additional vehicles (and drivers) over the number currently deployed.

    I understand from the proposals that Bus Éireann are not planning to change the 109A Dublin Airport hourly service, that it will continue to serve Navan as well as Kells, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Ashbourne and DCU.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,286 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I understand from the proposals that Bus Éireann are not planning to change the 109A Dublin Airport hourly service, that it will continue to serve Navan as well as Kells, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Ashbourne and DCU.

    Sorry I should have left Navan in both there - it's not changing. It was just a typo.


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