Rifle

mike2015

Hi lads, this question has probably been asked and answered a million times on this forum but what's the best small calibre rifle for lamping foxes and rabbits at night, .22, .17, swift etc. .....

sniperman

mike2015 wrote: »

Hi lads, this question has probably been asked and answered a million times on this forum but what's the best small calibre rifle for lamping foxes and rabbits at night, .22, .17, swift etc. .....

i had a .17hmr,could not live with the noise at night,sold it,now use my 22 for bunnies,shot foxes out to 80 yards,22 cheap to feed,quite,suits my needs fine;)

mike2015

sniperman wrote: »

i had a .17hmr,could not live with the noise at night,sold it,now use my 22 for bunnies,shot foxes out to 80 yards,22 cheap to feed,quite,suits my needs fine;)

I thought that myself sniperman,i looked on the web a .17hmr versus .22, and the .17 made a loud noise even with a moderator ( made little or no difference ) where as the 22 made little or no noise, the only thing is when I asked the gun dealer about the .22 he said it wasn't up to the job for foxes, after being hit with the 22 he could run and was inclined to steer me towards the .17hmr.

Thanks for your reply sniperman.

Downwind

sniperman wrote: »

i had a .17hmr,could not live with the noise at night,sold it,now use my 22 for bunnies,shot foxes out to 80 yards,22 cheap to feed,quite,suits my needs fine;)

.22 up close very effective.

sniperman

mike2015 wrote: »

I thought that myself sniperman,i looked on the web a .17hmr versus .22, and the .17 made a loud noise even with a moderator ( made little or no difference ) where as the 22 made little or no noise, the only thing is when I asked the gun dealer about the .22 he said it wasn't up to the job for foxes, after being hit with the 22 he could run and was inclined to steer me towards the .17hmr.

Thanks for your reply sniperman.

hi,a fox can run when hit with most calibres if not hit in the right place,,shot placement is the key,for me a 22 will,and has dropped mr fox up to 80 yards,ive had one run 10 yrds and drop dead.know your drops and limits with a 22,and you will have a very effective bunnie basher,and fox gun up to 80 yrds,some lads can take rabbits 100+yrds with a 22.i read on an english site where a lad dropped a fox at 120 yrds with a .22.maybe a lucky shot,but it can be done
.i would not chance a shot that far,too much room for error.ill keep to within 80 or so yrds,where i know my bullet drops/rises,hmr is a good round too,but as i do most shooting at night,i opted for the .22,anyhow good luck in your choice;)(ps,if your doing more day than night shooting,then a hmr might be a better option,just dont go if its windy,that little 17grain gets blown all over the place leaveing you wondering WTF

Downwind

.22 for me , bought a .22 magnum one time thinking I would do the divil an all just found the magnum too expensive and as loud as a hornet . Also have to say most bolt rifles in my opinion deliver most if not all of their energy better than semi autos

Kells1

If you were just after rabbits the 22 would be better. However if you intend to shoot foxes regularly the hmr would more suited to both rabbits and foxes. Ok it has a bang but the moderators do help. I have a hmr with a sak mod and i have shot foxes up to 150 yards with proper shot placement a clean kill is no prob. The majority of foxes i shoot are in the 80 to 125 yard range and i find the harder hitting hmr will allow me to cull more foxes because of the range

Cass

The .17 hmr has the .22lr bet in every aspect bar one - noise (two if cost is a big issue). However seeing as how you mentioned .220 Swift i wouldn't have thought noise & cost was such a big concern.

Most .22lr rounds are subsonic. With or without a suppressor they will be quieter because the bullet does not break the sound barrier and hence does not create as much noise. The .22lr is a great gun and excellent for bunnies and the occasional fox, but only to a certain distance.

The .17hmr rounds are supersonic. This means they will create a bang when fired. However if you were to fire a stinger or other such supersonic round in a .22lr then you'd get the exact same noise, the same instability in flight (in wind) as a hmr. The hmr ammo is more expensive, but when you are talking €17 for 50 hmr and €8 for 50 .22lr it's not going to break the bank.

Some comparisons (most are averages).

Cost | .22lr | .17hmr |
Per 50 | €8 | € 17 |

Speeds | .22lr | .17hmr |
fps | 1,050 | 2,200 |

Energy | .22lr | .17hmr |
Muzzle |

98

|

217

|
50 yd |

86

|

181

|
100 yd |

78

|

147

|
150 yd |

71

|

120

|
200 yd |

65

|

97

|

Drops | .22lr | .17hmr |
50 yd |

0"

|

-0.25"

|
100 yd | 6.5" - 8" |

0"

|
150 yd |

24"

|

1.75"

|
200 yd |

52"

|

5"

|


Side by side comparison with both set at 50 yard zero (instead of the above where the .17hmr has a 100 yard zero)




As can be seen from the tables & Ballistic chart above, the .17hmr:

• Drops less over 200 yards than the .22 does from 50 to 80 yards.
• It carries a minimum of double the impact energy of the .22lr.
• In a 10mph, 90 degree crosswind, it has slightly less but almost the same wind drift as the .22lr.
• Has up to 3 times the accurate distance of the .22lr.
• For whatever use it is the 17hmr will cover the distance in half the time of the .22lr.

The only real different is noise. However comparing a supersonic round against a subsonic one is like comparing a Fiesta and a Ferrari because they are both cars. Plus i have a CZ in .17hmr, and a Savage 93r17 in .17hmr. The CZ uses a SAK mod and it quietens the crack but it's still fairly loud. The Savage has a T4 AR suppressor and it is VERY quiet. Much quieter than the CZ. Still not as quiet as a ,22lr with subsonics, but much quieter than i thought it would be.


Plus, as said above, if you do day time shooting where your distances can be much longer as you can see backstops, and shoot safer, you want something that'll not only reach the distance, but do it without having to sit down for 5 minutes and do maths, and then wonder if it'll do much more than tickle the animal when you hit it.


Lastly, if you are interested in target shooting then the .22lr is a necessity as .17hmr have no place in comps (rimfire ones). If this is not a concern then i'd be looking at the .17hmr. It's so good i bought two.

Savage 93r17




CZ 455

rsole1

You're a bit low on the energy for CCI 22lr subs, muzzle 98ft lbs and 100yards 72ft lbs. The noise level is so quiet with a Sak, you can only hear the bullet hitting the target.

Cass

Good catch.

I rechecked and i never changed the bullet weight when comparing the .22lr. It raises it in terms of energy, but it's still less than half the .17hmr and the drops are identical to the mistaken 20gr weight i had in for the .22lr.

gearoidol

Downwind wrote: »

.22 for me , bought a .22 magnum one time thinking I would do the divil an all just found the magnum too expensive and as loud as a hornet . Also have to say most bolt rifles in my opinion deliver most if not all of their energy better than semi autos

could you expand on the above ,i dont really understand what you mean ?

mike2015

Thanks to everyone for there input on this topic, which every rifle I go for it will be my first ever rifle.
Looking at the browning t bolt .22 or .17

Deanaudia4

sorry to jump in but wondering where u got stock for savage have one myself but with standard black synthetic stock and looking for spare mag Aswel only hav 1 at moment cheers cass...back on topic .22 great but has its limits b handy quiet bunny basher but .17 is deadly and got that bigger belt when after Charlie but to b honest it's totally upto what u plan on doing more of u cud get .22 as it ur first rifle get to no it and keep it and buy something bigger for Charlie down the road..

Cass

Deanaudia4 wrote: »

sorry to jump in but wondering where u got stock for savage ............

Came with the gun from Savage.

It's the 93r17 BTVS model. Thumbhole stock, stainless barrel, etc. All factory standard.

Wadi14

Deanaudia4 wrote: »

sorry to jump in but wondering where u got stock for savage have one myself but with standard black synthetic stock and looking for spare mag Aswel only hav 1 at moment cheers cass...back on topic .22 great but has its limits b handy quiet bunny basher but .17 is deadly and got that bigger belt when after Charlie but to b honest it's totally upto what u plan on doing more of u cud get .22 as it ur first rifle get to no it and keep it and buy something bigger for Charlie down the road..

Boyds make the stocks for the Savage check out their web site, and check out here for your mag

http://riflemags.co.uk/savage-mark-ii-magazines/

Chiparus

I had a 17 but got rid of it, bought a 22, I much prefer it.

really need to clean the 17barrel regularly or it looses its accuracy very fast.

HW100S

Why not get a rifle with interchangeable barrels such as the CZ455. You can get the 0.22 calibre initially and then if you want to upgrade to 0.17 for longer distances you have the option to do so by just purchasing and extra barrel (and licence also of coarse) - best of both worlds.

zeissman

HW100S wrote: »

Why not get a rifle with interchangeable barrels such as the CZ455. You can get the 0.22 calibre initially and then if you want to upgrade to 0.17 for longer distances you have the option to do so by just purchasing and extra barrel (and licence also of coarse) - best of both worlds.

Thats good advice.
You will have the option of the 2 calibres and 2 licences or if you only want the .17 you could trade the .22 barrel for one in .17.