P&D 55m Marathon Plan

McWotever

I'm following the above plan, the 18wk plan, however I left my book in work. Does anybody know what is next in the plan for me tomorrow? I think I'm at the 14 weeks to go stage, so it was rest today, 14m med/long run Sunday. Any ideas for Tuesday?

Calvin Johnson

Up to 55 miles per week?

It says for Tuesday...

General aerobic + speed

8 miles with 10 x 100m strides

McWotever

Calvin Johnson wrote: »

Up to 55 miles per week?

It says for Tuesday...

General aerobic + speed

8 miles with 10 x 100m strides

Yup, up to 55miles. That sounds about right. Cheers.

dna_leri

Might be of some help.

Bez Bing

Got a question on this, planning to use this plan for NYC, there are races down for a Saturday and then a long run on the Sunday.

How have people who have followed this plan found these weeks?
Have you raced the race flatout?

ger664

Bez Bing wrote: »

Got a question on this, planning to use this plan for NYC, there are races down for a Saturday and then a long run on the Sunday.

How have people who have followed this plan found these weeks?
Have you raced the race flatout?

These are very hard. I have raced the races and found the following days run to be extremely difficult. In saying that so is the last 3-4 miles of a marathon. I found the long runs after the race really do prepare/teach you how to run on very tired legs and I can honestly say in the last two marathons I raced it was this workout combination that got me home.

MacSwifty

Bez Bing wrote: »

Got a question on this, planning to use this plan for NYC, there are races down for a Saturday and then a long run on the Sunday.

How have people who have followed this plan found these weeks?
Have you raced the race flatout?

Will let you know after Waterford on Saturday

Found the LSR after races ok a little leg heavy to start off but nothing major - I was 45 secs off expected marathon pace.

Bez Bing

Thanks lads and how did the races themselves go?
There is no real taper coming into the races either.

ger664

Bez Bing wrote: »

Thanks lads and how did the races themselves go?
There is no real taper coming into the races either.

PB on all Three.

Bez Bing

Nice one Ger, what distances did you race?
I have a soft 10K PB of 45mins that's annoying me and a, not so soft but definitely beatable, 1/2 marathon PB of 1:40 that I would love to knock off.

ger664

First Cycle I only got one race in 10 Mile 70:40

Next cycle I got 2 in 10 Mile 69:36 & 41:46 for 10K should have done better in the 10 mile but foolishly went out to fast (trying to keep up with the boards auld fella).

Dub13

I am thinking about using this plan for Dublin, I will be starting next week as in the middle of 2 races (4 mile on last Sun & 5 mile on Sat) so taken it easy this week. It would be a step down in mileage for me from DCM14 so a bit nervous have to do more research. Have many here got good results with this plan..?

Bez Bing

Dub13 wrote: »

I am thinking about using this plan for Dublin, I will be starting next week as in the middle of 2 races (4 mile on last Sun & 5 mile on Sat) so taken it easy this week. It would be a step down in mileage for me from DCM14 so a bit nervous have to do more research. Have many here got good results with this plan..?

If you are worried about decreasing your mileage would you think of using one of his higher mileage plans?

yaboya1

I followed the 12 week version of the 55m plan and ran a 26 minute pb. I also pb'd in the tune up races. Ran them all as hard as I could.
As ger has said, some weeks/weekends will be tough but if you get through them unscathed it should stand to you on the day.
For anyone worried about decreasing their mileage, there are 70/90/110m versions of the plan in the same book.

adrian522

Only advise is to read the book and not just download the plan and try and follow it.

I'm following the 55-70 plan so if you have any questions just shout.

Also a few older threads on boards discussing the plan.

Dub13

Bez Bing wrote: »

If you are worried about decreasing your mileage would you think of using one of his higher mileage plans?

I am only off the back of 2 high enough mileage plans for Dublin and then Belfast so want to try something a bit different. I suppose I am just a small bit apprehensive, I could add in the odd extra few miles the odd time. I am also off to Spain for a 2 weeks at the end of July so this has helped my decide to cut back.

As for the longer plans, I have my eye on them for a spring marathon in 2016.

adrian522 wrote: »

Only advise is to read the book and not just download the plan and try and follow it.

I downloaded it last night and started to get stuck into it today. Decent read so far.

outforarun

Bez Bing wrote: »

Got a question on this, planning to use this plan for NYC, there are races down for a Saturday and then a long run on the Sunday.

How have people who have followed this plan found these weeks?
Have you raced the race flatout?

Hiya Bez

I recently completed PD55 ahead of CCM15. I didn't race the Saturday's but I did run solo TTs at race effort. I don't shirk off in training and so my TT times are near identical to what I would expect in a race of the same distance. You can see exactle how the three weekends went below.

First weekend
Saturday race effort
Sunday long run

Second weekend
Saturday race effort
Sunday long run

Third weekend
Saturday race effort
Sunday long run

Bez Bing

Those were great sessions outforarun, what was your target MP?
Any lessons you learned from the plan or things you would change?
My plan is due to kick-off on Monday for NYC in November.

I noticed all your races were only 10K, I have a 1/2 scheduled for 4 weeks before the marathon and the plan has a 17 mile run scheduled the day after.

I'm thinking of putting that 17 mile run off until the Monday as I don't think I would get through 17 miles the day after racing a 1/2.

adrian522

The book states that if you are racing longer that 15K not to do the long run the following day so I'd say just ditch the 17 Miles altogether if you are racing a half 4 weeks out.

PDCAT

Bez Bing wrote: »

Those were great sessions outforarun, what was your target MP?
Any lessons you learned from the plan or things you would change?
My plan is due to kick-off on Monday for NYC in November.

I noticed all your races were only 10K, I have a 1/2 scheduled for 4 weeks before the marathon and the plan has a 17 mile run scheduled the day after.

I'm thinking of putting that 17 mile run off until the Monday as I don't think I would get through 17 miles the day after racing a 1/2.

I'm currently doing up the 12 week P&D plan for Chicago. I have the same issue as you. I'm planning on doing a half marathon 4 weeks out from Chicago with 17 miles planned for the next day.
My plan is to add a couple of miles before/after the half marathon and then run 10/12 miles very slowly the next day. I've done the 18 week 55 mpw plan for last two marathon's so i know at this stage this won't be an issue for me. But if you are not sure how your legs will react, probably best to err on the side of caution and just do a recovery run on the Sunday.

outforarun

Bez Bing wrote: »

Those were great sessions outforarun, what was your target MP?
Any lessons you learned from the plan or things you would change?
My plan is due to kick-off on Monday for NYC in November.

I noticed all your races were only 10K, I have a 1/2 scheduled for 4 weeks before the marathon and the plan has a 17 mile run scheduled the day after.

I'm thinking of putting that 17 mile run off until the Monday as I don't think I would get through 17 miles the day after racing a 1/2.

Target for race day was sub 3:20. Crucially though I plugged in sub 3:10 paces to the entire schedule. Training for a marathon time 10 minutes faster than what I would aim for on race-day is a formula that I believe worked really well for me, physically and mentally. I decided to do this based on experience of previous marathons where I consistently missed my target time by around 5 to 10 minutes. So this year I buffered accordingly.

I came home in 3:18, a 6 minute PB, and I recorded a negative split.

Last year I went from 3:39 to 3:24 off the back of PD55.

I really like the plan, I think it works for me, and I will probably follow it one more time before looking to move to PD70. A lot of people are critical of PD for its relative lack of MP sessions. Instead it has lots of LT, VO2Max sessions and the three race sessions. Personally I found that having completed all these fast sessions, MP pace on race day felt remarkably easy.


I wouldn't change anything about the plan. It's taken me from 3:39 to 3:18 in two cycles. I successfully completed 171 out of 172 sessions so it didn't result in me picking up any injuries. I should add though that I always factor in 2 weeks buffer when running these schedules, so I can take time out if I feel I'm risking injury, these weeks allow a safety net for injury, illness, ice and unexpected work/domestic commitments. If none of the previous occur then you can always use the 2 weeks to fit in an extra race. I also think it is hugely important to have a sufficient base built up before starting the plan. The first time I ran PD I didn't have a strong enough base and I fell apart in Mesocycle II.

All my TTs were 10K simply because I love the distance. It falls inside the prescribed distances and the sessions double as great markers ahead of the 10K races I target in the second half of the year. I would follow what the plan says if you decide to do a half, i.e. drop the subsequent LSR.

Best of luck with it for NYC.

Dub13

I need to get down to the detail's of how this plan fits my aim for DCM15, were the race series fits in etc. It would be asking for to much for it to be perfect fit and not needed to move weeks around but I live in hope. I hope to get to it over the weekend but you never know maybe someone here is doing DCM15 and has the hard work done.

I will be starting it on Sunday as I am racing twice this week so may have to jump in at week 2.

Bez Bing

Thanks for all the feedback lads lots to think about.
I had thought about giving myself a couple of weeks buffer but unfortunately I couldn't work it.

I am planning a trip back to Ireland in August which will interfere with the plan but hopefully I can move things around and it will coincide with a recovery week and I can get the main sessions in.
I think I have decent base, been running 30-40m weeks for the last month to 6 weeks, but I guess time will tell.

Does anyone have a calculator or spreadsheet where I can plug race times or HR max values in to come up with the PD prescribed training paces?

adrian522

I just did my own spreadsheet to figure out HR ranges based both on HR Max and HR reserve.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t7SkAR3nmbfAgjph0IuVPiumGxQLskNw-qDHkyVgeFg/edit#gid=0

it doesn't give paces though I think there is a table in the book showing paces based on your target marathon pace

Bez Bing

Just came across this page today:
http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html

His Jack Daniels training tables spreadsheet looks like a great tool for pace calculating and also some useful other links.

adrian522

Would a VDOT Calculator not do the same job as those tables?

http://runsmartproject.com/calculator/

MacSwifty

MacSwifty wrote: »

Will let you know after Waterford on Saturday

Found the LSR after races ok a little leg heavy to start off but nothing major - I was 45 secs off expected marathon pace.

2.5 minute PB @ 3.26,58 on a tough and lonely course!! The P&D 55 plan stemmed the arrival on the dreaded wall until mile 24 but was nearly there then - I will follow again for Berlin later this year!

ps I am not a young fella so the benefits may be greater for more youthful folk as I am also fighting father time!

Bez Bing

adrian522 wrote: »

Would a VDOT Calculator not do the same job as those tables?

http://runsmartproject.com/calculator/

That is what the spreadsheet is based from but it has a lot more than the website.
I like the section where we has a formula for calculating the effect of heat on your time. How accurate it is who knows.

Dub13

Right I have this planned synced for DCM15. Looking for advice on how to fit the DRS half in on the 19/9. The plan has me doing tune up races on the following weekends

12/13 September
26/27 September
10/11 Oct

All these races are meant to be 8km to 15k tuneup race (total 14-21km). Here is a full copy of the synced plan for a better idea. Any suggestions welcome also any races on these weekends..?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nQxDfkydosLHJkE5i_s_1GhzAFo8X44osSlVNm-FnoY/edit#gid=0

adrian522

I think if you do a half instead of a 10 mile you should drop the long run of the following day.

If you plan to race on the 19th, then maybe do a 10K the week before as planned, then switch around the next 2 weeks so that you do the MP session the week after the half and then you do a final 10K tuneup the following week.

Not exactly ideal racing 3 out of 4 weekends but I'd rather do that than doing time trials instead of races.

Maybe someone who has been through the plan could comment though.

ger664

Agree with Adrian re the half. Dont do the long afterwards but race the half.

Why are you trying to fit in the DRS. Running 2 race on consecutive weekends is not the plan. Half marathons are ten a penny in september. Pick another race. The weekend of the 10/11 October I would limit to a 10K

Dub13

ger664 wrote: »

Why are you trying to fit in the DRS. Running 2 race on consecutive weekends is not the plan. Half marathons are ten a penny in september. Pick another race. The weekend of the 10/11 October I would limit to a 10K

I signed up for the full race series and marathon a while ago now, only decided on this plan a couple of weeks ago.

Dub13

Anybody doing this plan for DCM15...? If so do you have any tune up races planned..? Looking to nail them down as soon as I can.

menoscemo

Dub13 wrote: »

Anybody doing this plan for DCM15...? If so do you have any tune up races planned..? Looking to nail them down as soon as I can.

It's a good few years since I did this plan, but I remember doing the Simon 5 mile as my final tune up race, being a Saturday race it left the Long run on the Sunday as per the plan.

Given the rise of parkruns however I reckon I would just use these as my races if I were to do the plan again.

adrian522

Is it the 12 or 18 weeks plan?

I think they both have races @ 2 weeks and 4 weeks out, which would mean September 26th and October 10th.

I think the 18 week also has a race 6 weeks out on September 12th?

If so, September 12th Lucan AC are running a 5 mile race which I'm planning on doing as my final tune up for Berlin. Athlone have a 10K alongside the half marathon too.

Not sure on the other dates though.

Dub13

Its the 18 week plan I am doing. So meant to have races the following weekends.

12/13 Sept
26/27 Sept
10/11 Oct

I am doing the Race Series Half on the 19th Sept so that should do for one of them. Not sure how to fit that in yet.

rooneyjm

2nd DUBLIN NIGHT RUN Park West Sept 29th. Flat 5km or 10km. Entries limited to 1,000.
http://www.athlone3quarter.com/index.php 4th October, although it should come with a health warning. Tough course and wouldn't do the whole lot at MP.

jake1970

Dub13 wrote: »

Anybody doing this plan for DCM15...? If so do you have any tune up races planned..? Looking to nail them down as soon as I can.

Donadea 10k is on Saturday 10th October

Dub13

rooneyjm wrote: »

2nd DUBLIN NIGHT RUN Park West Sept 29th. Flat 5km or 10km. Entries limited to 1,000.
http://www.athlone3quarter.com/index.php 4th October, although it should come with a health warning. Tough course and wouldn't do the whole lot at MP.

I may well slot the Night run in, would actually give me a few more days to recover from the half.

jake1970 wrote: »

Donadea 10k is on Saturday 10th October

I seen that and was thinking about it but then noticed its a trail race, and having never done one of them I did not want to try something new so close to DCM15.

menoscemo

Dub13 wrote: »

I seen that and was thinking about it but then noticed its a trail race, and having never done one of them I did not want to try something new so close to DCM15.

It's not really a trail race. Half is on Road and the other half is in the forest. The forest is half tarmac and half packed gravel- the same course the 50k in February is run on.
It's definitely not a technical course and racing flats are fine.

Bez Bing

Bumb on this, how is everyone using the this plan for an autumn marathon getting on?

I must say I'm really enjoying it. It's tough going but the different focus across the meso-cycyles keeps it interesting.

Quick question though, planning to run a 1/2 this weekend as the first tune up race on the plan but rather than run another race in a couple of weeks I was thinking of doing maybe 10m @ PMP instead and then the prescribed 17m long run the following day.

Any one got any thoughts on that approach? I assume the adaptations would be the same and there is less risk of injury than adding another race (not sure there is a race close by that suits anyway).

I'll probably just do a 10K time trial then for the last race but keep the pace slightly below my 10K pace as its supposed to be the first taper week.

Dub13

A little update for anybody thinking of doing this plan. I would highly recommend it. I just did it for DCM15 and actually ran a good bit less mile wise than I did in tanning for DCM14, I picked up a 8 min PM last week. Also along the way I set PB's in 5k, 10k, 10 mile and the Half.

I think I will use the 70m plan for DCM16. As people have said above get the book and read it before starting the plan as it will be a great help.

rooneyjm

Dub13 wrote: »

A little update for anybody thinking of doing this plan. I would highly recommend it. I just did it for DCM15 and actually ran a good bit less mile wise than I did in tanning for DCM14, I picked up a 8 min PM last week. Also along the way I set PB's in 5k, 10k, 10 mile and the Half.

I think I will use the 70m plan for DCM16. As people have said above get the book and read it before starting the plan as it will be a great help.

If you dont mind disclosing, what time did you achieve on the 55 plan

Dub13

rooneyjm wrote: »

If you dont mind disclosing, what time did you achieve on the 55 plan

3:49. The goal was a PB so under 3:57 which I did last year. The 2 other marathons I ran I hit the much talked about "wall" from around 33k /35k, and when I mean a wall I mean losing about 1 min a KM till the end and it been very painful. The most pleasing thing about this attempt is I did not hit the wall, yes I slowed down a bit but was very comfortable for most of the race. I could have knocked more time off this but kept expecting to hit the wall. Goes to show you with proper training and planning you can avoid it. Roll on the next one.

rooneyjm

Dub13 wrote: »

3:49. The goal was a PB so under 3:57 which I did last year. The 2 other marathons I ran I hit the much talked about "wall" from around 33k /35k, and when I mean a wall I mean losing about 1 min a KM till the end and it been very painful. The most pleasing thing about this attempt is I did not hit the wall, yes I slowed down a bit but was very comfortable for most of the race. I could have knocked more time off this but kept expecting to hit the wall. Goes to show you with proper training and planning you can avoid it. Roll on the next one.

Congratz on the PB. I wonder whats the best time that could be expected on the various plans, they don't elude to anything in the book. I'd imagine you could get to at least 3.30 on the 55m plan?

yaboya1

rooneyjm wrote: »

I wonder whats the best time that could be expected on the various plans, they don't elude to anything in the book. I'd imagine you could get to at least 3.30 on the 55m plan?

I trained for sub 3:30 on the 12 week 55m plan, then ran 3:08

Notwork Error

rooneyjm wrote: »

Congratz on the PB. I wonder whats the best time that could be expected on the various plans, they don't elude to anything in the book. I'd imagine you could get to at least 3.30 on the 55m plan?

There's really no answer to that, depends completely on the person. Some people might run sub-2:30 and others might not break 4:30 on the 55mpw plan. Performance depends on so many different aspects outside of just a plan that it is impossible to list them or to say that a certain time is the limit of a certain plan.

rooneyjm

Notwork Error wrote: »

There's really no answer to that, depends completely on the person. Some people might run sub-2:30 and others might not break 4:30 on the 55mpw plan. Performance depends on so many different aspects outside of just a plan that it is impossible to list them or to say that a certain time is the limit of a certain plan.

No one runs a 2.30 off 55 miles a week if they havent being doing twice that at some stage previously.

I was more interested in people coming from a low volume to a higher volume eg 55miles/week and seeing what was roughly possible. Sub 3.30, 3.00? DUB13 might not need to up his volume to improve, merely repeat and reduce his chances of injury.

rooneyjm

yaboya1 wrote: »

I trained for sub 3:30 on the 12 week 55m plan, then ran 3:08

#TONGUE&CHEEK

Notwork Error

rooneyjm wrote: »

No one runs a 2.30 off 55 miles a week if they havent being doing twice that at some stage previously.

I was more interested in people coming from a low volume to a higher volume eg 55miles/week and seeing what was roughly possible. Sub 3.30, 3.00? DUB13 might not need to up his volume to improve, merely repeat and reduce his chances of injury.

You missed the point I was making which is that everyone is different and there's no way to generalise the limits of a plan on time. Some people will be hyperresponsive to training, others not. Some will be fast twitches, others slow twicthers and so on, traits you are born with and make huge differences on performance.

Mileage and a plan is not the ultimate measure of a performance, genetics, upbringing and and an endless amount of other things will dictate where someone can't improve anymore on a particular plan and the time will vary hugely on what marathon time it happens to each person.

The only way to find out what the limits of a plan are for a person to run it and see for themselves where they plateau and need to change up the stimulus. there is no way to even throw a ball park time out there, it all depends on the person.

MrMacPhisto

rooneyjm wrote: »

No one runs a 2.30 off 55 miles a week if they havent being doing twice that at some stage previously.

I was more interested in people coming from a low volume to a higher volume eg 55miles/week and seeing what was roughly possible. Sub 3.30, 3.00? DUB13 might not need to up his volume to improve, merely repeat and reduce his chances of injury.

Hi Jim,

My background was 5/10k races, no more than 45k per week.

I have used the plan twice. First time around I did not complete it as I got an over-use injury. I was not adequately prepared for the increased mileage. Proper base training would have prevented this.

Second time around it all went well. Both times I trained for 2:55. The plan is varied and keeps you relatively interested. I ran 3:00:56 in the Dublin marathon. I was definitely prepared and well trained for a 2:55. Poor tactics on my part due to second guessing the wind cost me my goal.

So in short, I think the plan is good, and I think any time is possible off it, depending on your background and ability/goals. You would want to be consistently running 50k+ before starting it.