Bought a Punto with engine problems

KJC1990

Just got conned... Buying a new car in Dublin... (As I've had no car due to the petrol stretching scandal in Mayo) the car drove 4 miles down the road and it blew up... Head gasket.... Rang the guy... Was told he'd send out his tow truck and bring the money, no problems

...No where to be seen and turned his phone off...Gardai can't do nothing(obviously) The guy opted to meet us in Lidl, which is the only place in Finglas that has NO CCTV... it appeared to be driving fine and looked okay.. it was bought for 450eu with 5 months NCT/TAX... Fiat Punto... Got 4 miles down the road and then the car started smoking heavy white clouds and then pulled up, car would no longer start...

So looks like the head gasket is gone, any idea if its worth doing?

Also any idea on how to get the car from Dublin(Clonee) to Galway?





So sad.

Bpmull

Sorry to hear op but Unfortunately with a private sale no come back. So I recon you'll have to chalk it down to experience and scrap it probably worth 100-150 in scrap. I know it's terrible to hear but at least it wasn't 5k you gave him. I wouldn't bother going at the head gasket in it will cost to much and it's probably not the only issue with the car.

KJC1990

Aw man I'm gutted... I recently bought another car which needs a whole new engine due to petrol stretching and contamination in Mayo.. Feeling really hard done by.. Its sick what some people can do to others... I wouldn't dream of it.... no money to buy another car and no way of getting to work...really really angry

KJC1990

Aw man I'm gutted... I recently bought another car which NOW needs a whole new engine due to petrol stretching and contamination in Mayo.. Feeling really hard done by.. Its sick what some people can do to others... I wouldn't dream of it.... no money to buy another car and no way of getting to work...really really angry

Supergurrier

Ir probably wasnt the petrol that did it

Bpmull

KJC1990 wrote: »

Aw man I'm gutted... I recently bought another car which needs a whole new engine due to petrol stretching and contamination in Mayo.. Feeling really hard done by.. Its sick what some people can do to others... I wouldn't dream of it.... no money to buy another car and no way of getting to work...really really angry

That's sh!t to hear it's unreal what some people will do. Do you recon it's definitely the head gasket is there oil in the coolant or white mayonnaise like scum on the oil filler cap both are signs of hg failure.

KJC1990

well I don't know for definite, once the engine got hot, it started smoking, the temperature gauge went up to 65% and then we pulled over, the car then refused to start.... I imagine its the head gasket...

Bpmull

KJC1990 wrote: »

well I don't know for definite, once the engine got hot, it started smoking, the temperature gauge went up to 65% and then we pulled over, the car then refused to start.... I imagine its the head gasket...

Did the temperature go much over 90 degrees half way if you went over 100 and boiled the coolant you are in trouble.

unkel

You buy a car for €450 without checking it out and you are surprised that it developed a problem. Really?

I'm sorry for your troubles though

KJC1990

It didn't develop a problem... it already had it...masked somehow though....anyway... its a gonner now

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

unkel wrote: »

You buy a car for €450 without checking it out and you are surprised that it developed a problem. Really?

I'm sorry for your troubles though

You don't sound sorry you smug git, it's no wonder people say this forum's gone to shyte

Atlantic Dawn

Sad to hear of this, all too common.

If you bought it on Donedeal and the ad is still there click on the "See all ads from this seller", he could have other cars for sale, you could call about them on another mobile and then meet up and confront him. Hard to know what type of character you are dealing with, might not be safe to confront unless you have a couple of people with you.

If your buying another car don't purchase anything unless you see the logbook, verify the seller is the person named on the logbook, if they are not seek to contact the previous owner to verify why this person is selling their car, possibly traded in as scrap or something?

KJC1990

Cheers for the reply thats really helpful... I'll have a look at that...

unkel

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If you bought it on Donedeal and the ad is still there click on the "See all ads from this seller", he could have other cars for sale, you could call about them on another mobile and then meet up and confront him.

Confront him about what? Private sale, caveat emptor. There is no come back at all legally. Could give it a try though

barney 20v

Sorry to hear you got stung op but....
Buying a sub €1000 euro car ( esp a fiat) is a huge gamble.
You shouldn't have met in a public place- should have brought a mech / exp person with you.. A test drive would have shown the issue surely ??? If no test leave the car running until temp reached
Also....
Roughly 1/3 of Puntos blew head gaskets.
Heap of sh1te new !

Harsh lesson!

the_syco

Spend the AA charge ye €199 for a car-check, but an indie may cost ye less. It may cost ye €100, but it'll be a €100 well spent if it saves you €350 like in this case. And if the seller doesn't want your mechanic looking at the car, or takes offence, go look at another car.

unkel wrote: »

You buy a car for €450 without checking it out and you are surprised that it developed a problem. Really?

Some may call him smug, but he has a point. Pay the motorcheck, or pay the mechanic, or you'll be paying for the car to be towed to the dump.

Toyotafanboi

Bpmull wrote: »

Did the temperature go much over 90 degrees half way if you went over 100 and boiled the coolant you are in trouble.

coolant doesn't boil at 100oC, or at least not while it's still inside the cooling system

barney 20v wrote: »

Sorry to hear you got stung op but....
Buying a sub €1000 euro car ( esp a fiat) is a huge gamble.
You shouldn't have met in a public place- should have brought a mech / exp person with you.. A test drive would have shown the issue surely ??? If no test leave the car running until temp reached
Also....
Roughly 1/3 of Puntos blew head gaskets.
Heap of sh1te new !

Harsh lesson!

you have to back that up with some evidence. some were prone to head gasket trouble, but 1 in 3, seriously?

barney 20v

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

coolant doesn't boil at 100oC, or at least not while it's still inside the cooling system



you have to back that up with some evidence. some were prone to head gasket trouble, but 1 in 3, seriously?

Yes really

Toyotafanboi

barney 20v wrote: »

Yes really

what engine are we talking exactly here? 8v or 16v? 1108 or 1242cc? mk1, mk2 or mk3 punto? just a very broad statement you made, you should refine it, it'd be more useful for future reference.

Bpmull

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

coolant doesn't boil at 100oC, or at least not while it's still inside the cooling system

Chances are if it's had cooling problems it's probably just water in the system mainly anyway with little Antifreeze. Then considering the closed system is running at approx 1bar (101300 pa) gauge then the boiling point of the water at 2 bar absolute would be around 120 degree c although could be lower depending on the system pressure. Either way running an engine at 100 degree c would still potentially be doing damage.

KJC1990

Guys its a 1.2 8V

KJC1990

So why is the car no longer starting guys?.... he smoked and then pulled in and nothing...

barney 20v

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

what engine are we talking exactly here? 8v or 16v? 1108 or 1242cc? mk1, mk2 or mk3 punto? just a very broad statement you made, you should refine it, it'd be more useful for future reference.

I'm not here for your future reference.
The punto and the Rover "K" series engines are commonly known to be the most prone for head gasket failures.

All marks of punto suffered with this problem usually anywhere from 20k miles upwards .
Google " punto head" and see what pops up.!

Or this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055339587

Toyotafanboi

do you know much about cars? genuine question.

what checks did you do around the car before buying?
did you check the condition of the oil and coolant?
was the engine cold when you went to view it?
did the temperature gauge go into the red zone?
did you feel the car dying off getting progressively worse over a period of time, or did it almost instantly fail?
what does the oil and coolant look like now.

given the car in question, what you describe happened and the price you paid, it does sound like you've been had and it may be the head gasket.

if this is the case, you'd be better sticking it on donedeal with an honest description for €250 and forgetting the whole experience. given the fact that it sounds like money is now tight (no offence at all) and the fact that you are on the other side of the country. it would probably cost more to get it recovered from Dublin to Galway than it did to buy the car.

that said, if the car was closer to home and the engine didn't overheat, you could probably get it repaired for €2-300 and then you know you have a pretty good solid little car with tax and test that you still paid less than €1k for.

biko

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

You don't sound sorry you smug git, it's no wonder people say this forum's gone to shyte

Infract for uncivilized

How about you be the change you want to see in the forum?

Toyotafanboi

barney 20v wrote: »

I'm not here for your future reference.
The punto and the Rover "K" series engines are commonly known to be the most prone for head gasket failures.

All marks of punto suffered with this problem usually anywhere from 20k miles upwards .
Google " punto head" and see what pops up.!

no way? head gasket trouble with the rover k-series?

i'm just curious because we've had 4 punto's in the family and now a 500 with that same 1242 engine and none have had head gasket trouble in our ownership. we'd had the 99 punto from new too, went to it's grave last year after 140k miles and it was still going well. by your statistical count, 2 of those cars should have had trouble.

obviously this is being pedantic, but i do think your claim of own in three is very excessive, particularly when you can't even elaborate on the engines effected. it's not for my future reference personally, but if you are going to tell someone to avoid a certain car, you might as well give useful advice and be specific as to which one's would most likely be troublesome.

barney 20v

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

no way? head gasket trouble with the rover k-series?

i'm just curious because we've had 4 punto's in the family and now a 500 with that same 1242 engine and none have had head gasket trouble in our ownership. we'd had the 99 punto from new too, went to it's grave last year after 140k miles and it was still going well. by your statistical count, 2 of those cars should have had trouble.

obviously this is being pedantic, but i do think your claim of own in three is very excessive, particularly when you can't even elaborate on the engines effected. it's not for my future reference personally, but if you are going to tell someone to avoid a certain car, you might as well give useful advice and be specific as to which one's would most likely be troublesome.

Ok- let's ask other users, has anyone else heard that the punto are notorious for head gasket failures even from low mileage ?
It's too late in the am to be grabbing links for you to appease your offence fanboy.

A sample size of 5 is nonsense btw- 1/3 of the total produced or sold.
I know loads and loads of Puntos that had HG trouble. 8v 16v and even a 1.4 turbo!

Toyotafanboi

barney 20v wrote: »

Ok- let's ask other users, has anyone else heard that the punto are notorious for head gasket failures even from low mileage ?
It's too late in the am to be grabbing links for you to appease your offence fanboy.

A sample size of 5 is nonsense btw- 1/3 of the total produced or sold.
I know loads and loads of Puntos that had HG trouble. 8v 16v and even a 1.4 turbo!

i am not saying i haven't ever heard of "puntos having head gasket failure", i'm just saying imo, the story has grown legs and that practical cases of the problem are far less than the scaremongering sometimes suggests and that i wouldn't avoid buying a fiat purely because the head gasket might go.

Maximus Alexander

I had a low mileage 00 Punto about 10 years ago that had the head gasket go. But one swallow doesn't make a summer.

barney 20v

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i am not saying i haven't ever heard of "puntos having head gasket failure", i'm just saying imo, the story has grown legs and that practical cases of the problem are far less than the scaremongering sometimes suggests and that i wouldn't avoid buying a fiat purely because the head gasket might go.

Please search "fiat punto - head gasket " in here on boards- have a read of the post and in particular what DGT has to say about them!

Toyotafanboi

barney 20v wrote: »

Please search "fiat punto - head gasket " in here on boards- have a read of the post and in particular what DGT has to say about them!

i'm not saying i havn't heard of the problem.

if i google search ford fiesta head gasket, i will get the results i want.
if i google search nissan almera head gasket, i will get the results i want.
if i google search posche 911 head gasket, i will get the results i want.

nobody ever comes online to say their head gasket it still ok though. only when there is problems. my point is it's very easy to get caught up in the bad news posted about cars online. if i had only €500 to spend on a car, an old punto would definitely be on my list.

so it's important to remember that an absolute minimum, by your standards that two out of three, or nearly 70% of punto's are unlikely to have head gasket trouble

jca

Most of the head gasket problems stemmed from the poor quality water pumps with plastic impellers disintegrating or slipping on the shaft. Check the water pump first as you could be lucky and the hg might not have blown. As was posted earlier it isn't a huge job to get the hg done and you could end up with a perfectly good car after getting it done.

Special Circumstances

Not much good to him where he is though jca. If it was closer to home fair enough. The risks of travelling across the country for a cheap car :-(

bear1

@Barney: you are talking rubbish. You can't just say 1/3 of Puntos blew their head gasket with absolutely zero evidence to back it up.
Google BMW swirl flaps and see what shows up but I can't say that almost all BMWs have this issue.
There is not 1 car on the road anywhere in the world that doesn't have an issue.
We've had 3 Puntos and currently own 2 Puntos and not one gave this problem.

dgt

barney 20v wrote: »

Please search "fiat punto - head gasket " in here on boards- have a read of the post and in particular what DGT has to say about them!

Plenty of variables as to why they blow but it usually boils down to one main point: lack of maintenance.

These engines need to have the coolant seen to on the button, leaky rads/perishing pipes/wonky stats replaced asap. I've been there plenty of times

We had a 16v new in 97, still going strong without any hg issues. Same with the Seicento, it too was well minded by its previous owners. I've cooked a few hg's due to rotten pipework. Let them too far and the scraper rings break, more expenses. We rebuilt one with broken rings and a very warped head, nearly 50k later. I've seen them blow within hundreds of miles on repair! :eek:

It really boils down to people cheaping out on maintenance with a good dose of "Ah sure its a Fiat it'll break down anyway...." dickheads :rolleyes"

Tldr: hg usually caused by lack of maintenance most of the time

alias no.9

dgt wrote: »

Tldr: hg usually caused by lack of maintenance most of the time

Compounded by so many Puntos having been bought new in the late '90s / early '00 by people desperate to own a new car but not really clued into the fact that new cars need servicing too, how many Punto's had the head gasket done before an oil change and I'm not talking within the first year or two?

Tail Docker

KJC1990 wrote: »

Guys its a 1.2 8V

Meh, easiest engine in the world to work on, a doddle to fix pretty much no matter what's wrong with it. And used engines are ten a penny. I wouldn't blink, I'd just fix it/slap in a used engine. Even if the timing belt snaps, just bang on a new one. The HG is the easiest one of them all to do as well. And the cheapest. Fix it, drive it on and karma will sort the lad ya bought it off.

Tail Docker

dgt wrote: »

Plenty of variables as to why they blow but it usually boils down to one main point: lack of maintenance.

These engines need to have the coolant seen to on the button, leaky rads/perishing pipes/wonky stats replaced asap. I've been there plenty of times

We had a 16v new in 97, still going strong without any hg issues. Same with the Seicento, it too was well minded by its previous owners. I've cooked a few hg's due to rotten pipework. Let them too far and the scraper rings break, more expenses. We rebuilt one with broken rings and a very warped head, nearly 50k later. I've seen them blow within hundreds of miles on repair! :eek:

It really boils down to people cheaping out on maintenance with a good dose of "Ah sure its a Fiat it'll break down anyway...." dickheads :rolleyes"

Tldr: hg usually caused by lack of maintenance most of the time

IMO, it's caused by no-one knowing how to bleed the cooling system properly. That causes a huge air-lock and hot spot and bang, the gasket goes. If they are bled out properly when changing/majorly topping up the coolant, they don't blow the gasket.

Basil Fawlty

Forget about trying to find the seller.

Your best course of action is to get it fixed in Dublin or scrap it for €100.

Personally I would fix it as then your initial money is not wasted. If it is the head gasket €300 might be enough to sort it, then you would have a good car.

Has the oil mixed with the water?

Is the engine cranking over, if so is it fast or slow?

Either way get a mechanic in Clonee to look at it for you and then decide from there.

JohnBoy26

1.2 8v punto do indeed give head gasket trouble and it's not all down to lack of maintenance like, certain (blame everything but the car) types on here would like you to believe.

visual

Pinto are renowned for blowing head gaskets so much so that sellers will often brag about new head gasket been fitted in their adds

Tail Docker

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

1.2 8v punto do indeed give head gasket trouble and it's not all down to lack of maintenance like, certain (blame everything but the car) types on here would like you to believe.

It's the old Uno FIRE engine mildly updated - they have a rubbish filler system for the coolant, which yes, is the designers fault, not the owners, but peoples coolant goes low, they top up, it's airlocked, they don't know and drive on, gasket goes. They then get the gasket done(which is cheap as chips btw) and it get re-filled with fresh coolant, but not bled out properly...so the gasket goes again a while later. Then, they're branded "a crap engine.."
They need to be filled from a temporary reservoir, up high, and ALL the bleed points (the two back at the heater hoses are crucial) need to be flowing coolant. Or else vacuum re-filled.

Puntos are what they are, cheap transport, I have no illusions as to the myriad faults they can throw up, but there's usually a reason why. In some cases it is just rubbish manufacturing tho.:D If I had to buy a small car on a tight budget, I'd buy one as they are cheaply run, but only if I couldn't find a 1.3 corolla..

biko

It super sucks to drive away from a purchase only to have crap like this happen.
Even a buyer with a mechanic might not have been able to spot this.

Don't just assume it's the HG. We need more info.
You said it's not starting now? Can you elaborate?
Is starter even cranking? Any sounds whatsoever? Any lights?
Coolant level?
Mayo in oil?
Leaking underneath?
Has a mechanic had a look yet?

I'm not saying it's not the HG, I'm just saying it could be something else..

Tail Docker

biko wrote: »

It super sucks to drive away from a purchase only to have crap like this happen.
Even a buyer with a mechanic might not have been able to spot this.

Don't just assume it's the HG. We need more info.
You said it's not starting now? Can you elaborate?
Is starter even cranking? Any sounds whatsoever? Any lights?
Coolant level?
Mayo in oil?
Leaking underneath?
Has a mechanic had a look yet?

I'm not saying it's not the HG, I'm just saying it could be something else..

It could even be as simple as the coil packs, which are shyte...and cheap..

George Dalton

Those Puntos would be a great little car if they had taken the trouble to design a proper cooling system.

Head gasket failure was so common on these back 15 years ago that we used to keep a recon head and a gasket in stock all the time. The only other engine we ever carried a head in stock for at all times was the infamous K Series.

Hachiko

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

You don't sound sorry you smug git, it's no wonder people say this forum's gone to shyte

well he is right? whats to be sorry about, a cheap Jap petrol car would be better.

dgt

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

1.2 8v punto do indeed give head gasket trouble and it's not all down to lack of maintenance like, certain (blame everything but the car) types on here would like you to believe.

Then what else is it?

I'm all ears. Enlighten me...

bear1

Hachiko wrote: »

well he is right? whats to be sorry about, a cheap Jap petrol car would be better.

So you think Japanese cars don't give problems?

JohnBoy26

dgt wrote: »

Then what else is it?

I'm all ears. Enlighten me...

George Dalton explained it very well on the previous page if you care to go back and have a look.

JohnBoy26

LIGHTNING wrote: »

My Mk2 1.2 8V Punto was probably the most reliable and cheapest car I have had to run. But then again I did check the fluids once a month which is something the Irish motorist seems to be allergic to.

I think it was more luck you had tbh. I know of three that were bought new in 00,01 and 02 and all of them suffered hg failure after about 4 years. I know they were maintained to the manufacturer's schedule too.

dgt

[

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

George Dalton explained it very well on the previous page if you care to go back and have a look.

I did have have a look, thank you. Doesn't really answer my question though. What made the system so bad?

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I think it was more luck you had tbh. I know of three that were bought new in 00,01 and 02 and all of them suffered hg failure after about 4 years. I know they were maintained to the manufacturer's schedule too.

Luck? What has luck got to do with maintaining a car? How come we were able to do it and not have issues? Consecutive years running?

I'm genuinely curious