VW Passat, Opel Insignia or alternatives

skerry

Hi folks, I'm looking to trade in my 2006 Focus (1.6L petrol, connection pack) and upgrade. It has around 160k km on the clock and want to get something newer while the Focus is still worth something. I was looking for any suggestions on cars to upgrade to and maybe some advice on how to get the best value for myself in the deal.

Initially started looking at 2008-2009 VW Passats of which there seems to be plenty around. Seen a few Passat CC's which are considerably nicer looking but also considerably dearer. Rang around a couple of garages and Opel Insignia was suggested as a similar alternative, seen a nice 2011 2L diesel one that can be had for around 10k with my own car (not sure if this is good deal or not).

So I guess my first question is which of the above options would people recommend and also what other alternatives should I be considering? I'm hoping to get a diesel in the lower tax bracket, I know it's a false economy upgrading to avail of cheaper tax but, as mentioned above, it's past time I moved the Focus on while it's worth anything.

Next question is, am I better off to sell my own car privately and then going to a dealer with cash or is trade in better. Not a huge fan of car shopping so obviously trade in seems handier option but I would presume prices are more negotiable with straight cash?

So basically any alternative options to those mentioned above and advice on how to approach the whole deal (trade in vs private sale) are hugely appreciated. Hoping to get moving on this and have a different motor come the end of the month if possible.

Noccy_Mondy

Whats your budget? Sell the focus privately, that way you will get a better deal and more for the focus.

Both the passat and mondeo are good options, try and get a higher spec in both of them, make a big difference to them. Mondeo is also another option, as is the Mazda 6

skerry

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Whats your budget? Sell the focus privately, that way you will get a better deal and more for the focus.

Both the passat and mondeo are good options, try and get a higher spec in both of them, make a big difference to them. Mondeo is also another option, as is the Mazda 6

Cheers, That was my first thought, convenience of trade in is appealing but if there's a better deal to be had I think I'll try sell private.

Did you mean to say Passat and Insignia are good options? The Insignia I seen is a 2011 2.0 CDTI ELITE ECOFLEX 160PS and has pretty good spec from what I understand. Was looking at a Passat CC but can go up to around 2011 with the Insignia for similar money to a 2009 CC.

Haven't checked out Mondeo's yet so must add them to the list of options.

Noccy_Mondy

skerry wrote:

Did you mean to say Passat and Insignia are good options? The Insignia I seen is a 2011 2.0 CDTI ELITE ECOFLEX 160PS and has pretty good spec from what I understand. Was looking at a Passat CC but can go up to around 2011 with the Insignia for similar money to a 2009 CC.

Ya meant to say insignia there, mondeo on the brain and all that. From what I understand elite is a fairly decent spec, there's an se spec too which is better again if I'm not mistaken. Some of the better informed insignia lads will be along for short.

Highline in the passat is the best. The 1.9 is the best engine in the 08/9 model.

Mondeo either 1.8 or 2.0 both are fine, and aim for Zetec or Titanium/Titanium X if you can, more goodies.

That's assuming you're doing the mileage for a diesel.

Noccy_Mondy

Passat cc would be my pick out of them all, but you will have to drop back the years to get one in your price range. If you're going for the new shape passat, avoid the 1.6 and aim 2.0. Same story for the mondeo. 2.0. Very little difference in running costs. The small diesel engines in big cars don't give the best rwsults.

skerry

Thanks for that. Passat CC is definitely the nicer looking, Inisgnia not a bad looking car either but have to see one in the flesh. I'm not doing massive mileage, around a 50km round trip to work and standard enough mileage then outside of that. Just want something that's economical and cheap to tax seeing as I have to upgrade anyway. Insignia only came into the equation today so still have a bit of research to do on it.

Had seen there were several versions of Passat Diesel so thanks for the info on that, I'll keep my eye out for 1.9's when I'm looking.

R.O.R

Insignia Elite is the top of the range model. Full Electric adjustment on the drivers seat, heated front seats, leather, Xenon lights, parking sensors, cruise, 18" Alloys. Bluetooth wasn't standard though, but a lot would have it specified.

SE is the model just below. Gets the same 18" wheels, but only half leather, manual seat adjustment, normal headlights and no seat heating.

Insignia 160 isn't a quick as it should be, and the gearing is totally wrong. 6th is pointless below 100km/h and will chug if you try to accelerate below that speed. Seats also aren't as good as the Passat, unless you can find an Insignia with the Sports Seats, which are on par with the Passat Sports seats, but a rare option in the Elite - standard on the SRi model, but cloth rather than cow.

skerry

R.O.R wrote: »

Insignia Elite is the top of the range model. Full Electric adjustment on the drivers seat, heated front seats, leather, Xenon lights, parking sensors, cruise, 18" Alloys. Bluetooth wasn't standard though, but a lot would have it specified.

SE is the model just below. Gets the same 18" wheels, but only half leather, manual seat adjustment, normal headlights and no seat heating.

Insignia 160 isn't a quick as it should be, and the gearing is totally wrong. 6th is pointless below 100km/h and will chug if you try to accelerate below that speed. Seats also aren't as good as the Passat, unless you can find an Insignia with the Sports Seats, which are on par with the Passat Sports seats, but a rare option in the Elite - standard on the SRi model, but cloth rather than cow.

Thanks for that. Looks a nice machine but and good spec. Any thoughts on Passat CC? Lovely looking car but definitely pay a premium for them, even looking at UK versions, working out quite expensive compared to what you'd get for similar cash with the likes of the Insignia. Not sure how they compare reliability wise though so any thoughts welcome.

bazz26

You will have to drop back a year or two for a Passat CC as they were more expensive when new, fewer of them around and generally they are more desirable.

I had a Passat CC for nearly 2 years, very good car, had one major problem with it that was fixed under warranty. Recommended one to my cousin's husband and he has had no problems with it. If can sell your Focus privately then you should also look at buying privately. My cousin's husband bought his 2010 CC DSG privately with only 70k miles on it last year for just under €15k. Ironically he had an Insignia before that as a company car that broke his heart but thankfully not his wallet.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

You will have to drop back a year or two for a Passat CC as they were more expensive when new, fewer of them around and generally they are more desirable.

I had a Passat CC for nearly 2 years, very good car, had one major problem with it that was fixed under warranty. Recommended one to my cousin's husband and he has had no problems with it. If can sell your Focus privately then you should also look at buying privately. My cousin's husband bought his 2010 CC DSG privately with only 70k miles on it last year for just under €15k. Ironically he had an Insignia before that as a company car that broke his heart but thankfully not his wallet.

From what I can see with whats out there at the minute, you're talking around a 2009 Passat CC for the same ballpark as 2011 Insignia. They are a very nice looking motor though and may be worth holding off to see if the right one pops up. Flip side is I guess the CC would still fetch more than the Insignia in a few years when it came to selling time, providing I got one with reasonable mileage.

Thankfully the option is there to use the missus car if I sell the Focus and have to wait a few weeks for the right car to pop up once I have the cash. Need to get it NCT'd first though which is looking likely to be the end of the month.

Is there much to be saved buying privately, I know your paying extra for a Garage warranty which is generally ****e anyway. Always the option of getting an AA mechanic to check a private car anyway I guess.

Definitely something to think about with the experience you mentioned of the Insignia giving trouble. Was trawling through posts on here and some folks have had no issues while others have had loads. Only popped into my head today as I had rang a garage about a CC which happened to be sold and the guy mentioned the Insignia.

A lad I know gets cars in from the UK so might be worth asking him to keep an eye out for Passat CC's as there's probably a lot more of them over there and might be a tad cheaper.

Something like this would do nicely
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201403242760180/sort/default/postcode/bt357nb/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/page/1/radius/1500/price-to/8000/usedcars/fuel-type/diesel/transmission/manual/model/passat_cc/seller-type/trade_adverts/maximum-mileage/up_to_100000_miles?logcode=p

bazz26

I'd try and hold out for one with leather, the leather sport seats are very comfy and make the car a more desirable seller when the time comes. Also in late 2010 they got a minor change on the interior meaning they added a small middle seat to the rear and small changes to the centre console of the dashboard. Engines were revised too with BlueMotion meaning they had lower emissions which means lower VRT and slightly less motor tax.

Insignias are dirt cheap in the UK also so you might be able to come up to a 2012 when they got sat nav as standard bar the base model and tweaked engines for lower emissions too. That's assuming you don't mind the Vauxhall badge.

Personally though I prefer the VAG 2.0 CR TDi engines to the Fiat derived CDTi engines in the Insignia. The TDi are more smoother, quieter and fuel efficient.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

I'd try and hold out for one with leather, the leather sport seats are very comfy and make the car a more desirable seller when the time comes. Also in late 2010 they got a minor change on the interior meaning they added a small middle seat to the rear and small changes to the centre console of the dashboard. Engines were revised too with BlueMotion meaning they had lower emissions which means lower VRT and slightly less motor tax.

Insignias are dirt cheap in the UK also so you might be able to come up to a 2012 when they got sat nav as standard bar the base model and tweaked engines for lower emissions too. That's assuming you don't mind the Vauxhall badge.

Personally though I prefer the VAG 2.0 CR TDi engines to the Fiat derived CDTi engines in the Insignia. The TDi are more smoother, quieter and fuel efficient.

Cheers Bazz, I presume the VAG 2.0 CR TDi is the engine in the Passat CC? If so is that the same engine in the regular Passat 2L car?

Kind of going off the Insignia now the more I think about it, seems to be a very popular fleet car and can't imagine the resale value will hold at all. Definitely work out the cheaper option though. Tax is up on my Focus at the end of the month now so if I could have it sold off by then I can start moving on new car. Really don't want to be taxing something I know I'm getting rid of in the near future.

Reckon 2009 may be my limit with a Passat CC though, unless I came across a great deal on a 2010. Realistically I'd want to be capping budget at 12K, presuming I get an ok price for the Focus privately.

Any other alternatives that may be easier to get hold of for similar money?

bazz26

Yes the 2.0 TDI in the CC is the same engine used through out the VAG range. Available in both 140bhp and 170bhp.

Remember though that the plus side of the Insignia's poor resale value is that they are cheaper to buy in the first place. Buy cheap so sell cheap.

Another alternative would be the Volvo S60. A little smaller on the inside than the Insignia and Passat CC but still are a very good alternative and some decent specs on them. 2.0 D3 with 163bhp is the one to go for. Should be able to pick a 2010 one up in the UK for good money.

Pawwed Rig

skerry wrote: »

The Insignia I seen is a 2011 2.0 CDTI ELITE ECOFLEX 160PS and has pretty good spec from what I understand. Was looking at a Passat CC but can go up to around 2011 with the Insignia for similar money to a 2009 CC.

I am, driving the 2010 version of that. Good family car with a little bit of torque when needed. Nice big boot and great on long journeys. There are a couple of annoyances such as the elec tronic hand brake but no deal breakers. That said if I didn't have a baby I wouldn't have gone near this style of car. If you have no kids I would suggest something a little more exciting and stylish*



*I miss my Audi TT:(

skerry

I was in touch with a garage that's reasonably local yesterday about a 2010 Passat (regular version) Highline with Bluemotion etc. Turned out the car was sold that day but he says he just got in a 2010 Passat CC which is the top spec model, around 180k km on it but it's priced at €15,950 :eek: which is pushing my budget way beyond breaking point unfortunately.

He said to call out for a look and he'll have a look at my Focus to see what type of deal could be done but I can't imagine the Focus is going to bring it down to even a realistically affordable price. Will see what he says anyway, no harm in looking.

He does have a few 2010 normal Passats with Highline spec also, so I'll have a look at them and see what their like, might be more realistically in my price range so gonna call for a look.

bazz26

That is high money for that Passat CC. As I said my relative bought a 2010 privately back in May for under €15k privately with only 70k miles. It was a decent spec DSG one owner car in great nic. I would not pay €16k for one now even with a dealer warranty.

Regarding the regular Passat, 2010 would have been the B6 Passat. The B7 which was a heavy facelift of the B6 was introduced in 2011 and had many improvements over the older model.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

That is high money for that Passat CC. As I said my relative bought a 2010 privately back in May for under €15k privately with only 70k miles. It was a decent spec DSG one owner car in great nic. I would not pay €16k for one now even with a dealer warranty.

Regarding the regular Passat, 2010 would have been the B6 Passat. The B7 which was a heavy facelift of the B6 was introduced in 2011 and had many improvements over the older model.

Cheers Bazz your a mine of info

It's mad money alright and way out of my ballpark. I reckon if I want to get a CC then I'm going to have to sell my Focus and buy privately like you said. Just a matter of holding out until the right car comes up I guess and get it thoroughly checked out by an AA mechanic before buying.

Reckon 2009 might be my limit buying privately given my budget. Something like below with maybe a higher spec would be realistic.

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Passat-CC/2.0-TDI/201401229794551/

bazz26

That's a base UK spec CC.

This one might be worth looking at too:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/passat-cc/8315421

agriking101

I hope you're not tall. I spent a few days in the front and the back of a cc recently, the back was desperate, head at an angle all the way, I could not see out the window, brutal. The front was better as you'd expect but I kept hitting my head or shoulder getting in and out of the car. Nice driver, but wouldn't go for one in a fit
I'm 6'3

bazz26

agriking101 wrote: »

I hope you're not tall. I spent a few days in the front and the back of a cc recently, the back was desperate, head at an angle all the way, I could not see out the window, brutal. The front was better as you'd expect but I kept hitting my head or shoulder getting in and out of the car. Nice driver, but wouldn't go for one in a fit
I'm 6'3

It has a lower coupe stance so it's not designed for tall people but an Insignia is not exactly ideal for tall people either especially the hatchback version.

skerry

agriking101 wrote: »

I hope you're not tall. I spent a few days in the front and the back of a cc recently, the back was desperate, head at an angle all the way, I could not see out the window, brutal. The front was better as you'd expect but I kept hitting my head or shoulder getting in and out of the car. Nice driver, but wouldn't go for one in a fit
I'm 6'3

I'm 5'11" so hopefully be ok. Don't plan on spending much time in the back if I manage to get one so that shouldn't be a problem

skerry

Pricing around for CC's and everyone seems to be looking for mad money for them. Only reasonably affordable means of getting one is maybe UK and that might be a stretch too far for my meagre motor expertise.

Was looking at the more realistic, but also more boring, option of the standard Passat and there seems to be a lot more 1.6 Diesels floating around than anything else. If the 1.6 Diesel engine in these reliable? Was hoping to pick up a 2011 if I was going that route, providing I got one reasonably priced.

bazz26

You will loose the will to live driving the 1.6 TDi.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

You will loose the will to live driving the 1.6 TDi.

Fair enough I'll stay clear so and hold onto the dream of coming across a nicely specced, reasonably priced CC in the near future. Either that or a good spec Passat.

Suggestions so far are Passat, CC, Mondea, Insignia...Anything else I should be thinking about? Doesn't exactly have to be as big as the above but spacious (bigger than my Focus) and economical are a must. Don't do huge mileage, 40 km a day in and out to work and anything on top of that isn't major apart from the odd trip up the country.

bazz26

A bit left field but still a good car:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Citroen/C5/2.0-HDI/74514096566272400/

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

A bit left field but still a good car:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Citroen/C5/2.0-HDI/74514096566272400/

Cheers, nice enough. Not sure I could see myself in a Citroen though, are they not a bit of an old man's car? Always thought they had a bit of a rep for being unreliable (I could be imagining it though, or be confused with another manufacturer)

bazz26

I cannot see a C5 being any more old man than a Passat or Mondeo to be honest. They tend to have a wide demographic.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

I cannot see a C5 being any more old man than a Passat or Mondeo to be honest. They tend to have a wide demographic.

True, I'd forgotten about the Passats rep as an old man's car too, CC on the other hand though. Not really feeling the Mondeo tbh. Will keep C5 on the radar though, cheers Bazz

bazz26

Well if your heart is set on a CC then I'd tend to keep the Focus going until one pops up within budget, rather than buying something else that you really don't like.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

Well if your heart is set on a CC then I'd tend to keep the Focus going until one pops up within budget, rather than buying something else that you really don't like.

It is, but I'm coming to the realisation that they're commanding too hefty a price tag for me at the moment. Will be another few weeks before I list the Focus so have time yet, something might come up. Most affordable options seem to be ones sourced by from the UK from what I can see.

zizou_

bazz26 wrote: »

A bit left field but still a good car:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Citroen/C5/2.0-HDI/74514096566272400/

Interesting alternative. Any idea what the 2.0 HDi is like reliability wise? Is this the same engine in the older citroens/pugs or related to the 1.6HDi?

bazz26

It's the same engine found in other Peugeot/Citroen cars along with the Mondeo and Volvos. They tend to have less documented issues than the 1.6 HDi.

Moanin

skerry wrote: »

It is, but I'm coming to the realisation that they're commanding too hefty a price tag for me at the moment. Will be another few weeks before I list the Focus so have time yet, something might come up. Most affordable options seem to be ones sourced by from the UK from what I can see.

A guy I know has a business sourcing cars from UK. He will source for you whatever spec you want based on your budget of course. He sourced a very clean A4 for me last year.

PM me if you want his contact details...

Pawwed Rig

Or else look at autotrader

skerry

Moanin wrote: »

A guy I know has a business sourcing cars from UK. He will source for you whatever spec you want based on your budget of course. He sourced a very clean A4 for me last year.

PM me if you want his contact details...

Sound, what part of the country is he in? If you could PM me on his details that would be great.

skerry

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Or else look at autotrader

Have looked at that too and it's still an option. What postcodes do people use on Autotrader that would be convenient for getting back the car on the ferry? Was looking at flight/ ferry times last week and it seems a tight squeeze to get over and back in the same day unless you happen to find the car you want reasonably close to a port.

Moanin

skerry wrote: »

Sound, what part of the country is he in? If you could PM me on his details that would be great.

Galway

PM Sent

Ceepo

skerry wrote: »

Fair enough I'll stay clear so and hold onto the dream of coming across a nicely specced, reasonably priced CC in the near future. Either that or a good spec Passat.

Suggestions so far are Passat, CC, Mondea, Insignia...Anything else I should be thinking about? Doesn't exactly have to be as big as the above but spacious (bigger than my Focus) and economical are a must. Don't do huge mileage, 40 km a day in and out to work and anything on top of that isn't major apart from the odd trip up the country.

Would you consider Avensis ?
Picked up one in October '10 reg T4 model (great spec) list price was 12k. I traded a 06 Passat that I had no end of trouble with and was glad to see the back of.

Francie Barrett

bazz26 wrote: »

A bit left field but still a good car:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Citroen/C5/2.0-HDI/74514096566272400/

Considering the mileage, age and price on that, you'd be taking a big whack with regard to depreciation on that in the next 2-3 years.

Hidalgo

I'm basing this purely on aesthetics as I've never even sat in one, but would a Saad 93 be an option? The post 2008 version looks very stylish imo.

bazz26

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Considering the mileage, age and price on that, you'd be taking a big whack with regard to depreciation on that in the next 2-3 years.

So will an Insignia.

skerry

bazz26 wrote: »

So will an Insignia.

Think I've gone off the Insignia. Seen a few nice Mondeos last night in UK sites, VRT is reasonable of them too and could pick up a 2011 at a squeeze for similar money to a Passat CC.

Was talking to a mechanic today though and he reckoned they have fairly high maintenance costs, something to do with the way the engine is layed out making jobs very labour intensive and hard to get at (think that's what he said anyway), any truth to this?

VRT was looking doable for CC's but only discovered yesterday that when you enter the CO2 emissions at the final quote it changes it, for the worst in the CVs case, brings it up by almost a grand. How accurate are those calculator quotes versus the actual one you get when you call up?

George Dalton

bazz26 wrote: »

So will an Insignia.

The Insignia is holding similar values to Mondeo/Passat. Which is highly unusual for an Opel.

People love them. We sold more Insignias than any other model of car last year.

George Dalton

skerry wrote: »

Was talking to a mechanic today though and he reckoned they have fairly high maintenance costs, something to do with the way the engine is layed out making jobs very labour intensive and hard to get at (think that's what he said anyway), any truth to this?

Is this the Mondeo you are referring to?

skerry

George Dalton wrote: »

Is this the Mondeo you are referring to?

Yeah the Mondeo, nice car but that's kind of got me worried

George Dalton

skerry wrote: »

Yeah the Mondeo, nice car but that's kind of got me worried

He was probably referring to the timing belt setup on the 1.8 engine. But if you are looking at 2011 cars then it's not relevant to you anyway because the 1.8 finished up in 2010 (apart from the very odd example).

Have you driven all or any of these cars? I personally would put the Mondeo a distant 3rd on my shopping list if I was in the market for Mondeo/Insignia/Passat.

skerry

George Dalton wrote: »

He was probably referring to the timing belt setup on the 1.8 engine. But if you are looking at 2011 cars then it's not relevant to you anyway because the 1.8 finished up in 2010 (apart from the very odd example).

Have you driven all or any of these cars? I personally would put the Mondeo a distant 3rd on my shopping list if I was in the market for Mondeo/Insignia/Passat.

Sound, he mentioned something about a wet and a dry belt alright. I was looking at 2011 2L tdci version.

Havent driven any of the cars yet, only doing preliminary research on a few cars at the moment. Need to sell my Focus in the next few weeks and once I have cash together Ill start getting test drives in.

So you'd rate the Insignia well above the Mondeo?

George Dalton

skerry wrote: »

Sound, he mentioned something about a wet and a dry belt alright. I was looking at 2011 2L tdci version.

Havent driven any of the cars yet, only doing preliminary research on a few cars at the moment. Need to sell my Focus in the next few weeks and once I have cash together Ill start getting test drives in.

So you'd rate the Insignia well above the Mondeo?

Personally yes I would have an Insignia over a Mondeo. The main problem I have with the Mondeo is the interior. I just couldn't sit in one every day.

The 2.0TDCI Mondeo has a conventional timing belt setup which is long lasting and cheap to replace so don't be worried about the Mondeo from that point of view.

I would suggest that you spend a day looking at various examples of each car and see which one you personally prefer. There is little to choose between any of them in terms of reliability and maintenance costs. So you may as well just buy whichever one you like best!

Geezy

skerry wrote:

Any other alternatives that may be easier to get hold of for similar money?

Been looking at cars lately and skoda suberb in a decent spec can be quite nice. Good presence on the road! Get a 2ltr engine with decent bhp... you want to have a car thet looks and feels the part. Personally I'd love a 170bhp. I'd say youd be pushed getting a cc with decent history from a simi dealer for 12k...

skerry

How long after you bring a car back from the UK does it have to be cleared for VRT? Have money for a car at the moment but was hoping to use the cash from the sale of my old car to fund the VRT. Only problem is I'm still waiting for an NCT so can't list it just yet and not sure how long after listing it I would move it on, most likely be February sometime.

Noccy_Mondy

Think you have to make an appointment within 7 days of bringing it in, and have the whole process completed within 30 days. It's something along the lines of that anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.