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Transferred during a career break!

  • 29-12-2014 9:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2


    I am an employee in the public sector and am currently 3 yrs into a career break. I recently sought to extend my career break for another year. I was informed at this point that my post had been transferred to a neighbouring county a few months earlier and that I now had to apply to the manager in the neighbouring county to extend my career break! This happened without any consultation process or advance notification. I have spoken to HR on the matter and have pointed out that when I applied for my career break that an undertaking was signed by both parties stating that I may be reassigned to a new location upon return from my career break. I fully accept this. I do not believe however that my employer is able to transfer me during the course of my career break. Can anyone please advise? Thanks


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Ask for a copy of the contract and read what it says


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    A 4 year career break?

    Your post sounds like you have been given a load of money for free and are bitching about the envelope it came in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭runnerholic


    Zambia wrote: »
    A 4 year career break?

    Your post sounds like you have been given a load of money for free and are bitching about the envelope it came in.

    Very helpful comment


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Very helpful comment

    If the emperor has no clothes ?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Zambia wrote: »
    If the emperor has no clothes ?

    Public sector career breaks are unpaid

    Sounds to me like the original three years was coming to an end and the new location was arranged in advance of the op coming back


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    OP, are you in a union? Have a chat with one of the full time officers if you are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Stheno wrote: »
    Public sector career breaks are unpaid

    Sounds to me like the original three years was coming to an end and the new location was arranged in advance of the op coming back

    I am well aware but for a firm to hold a job for you for three years is a great perk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭runnerholic


    Zambia wrote: »
    If the emperor has no clothes ?

    OP posed a genuine question in a mannerly fashion with a please and thankyou and all you can do is come back with a sarky comment. Pathetic!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Zambia wrote: »
    I am well aware but for a firm to hold a job for you for three years is a great perk.

    You clearly know very little about career breaks in the public and civil services, and are hence unable to make a constructive contribution to answering the question posed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    OP posed a genuine question in a mannerly fashion with a please and thankyou and all you can do is come back with a sarky comment. Pathetic!

    I'm not going to derail this further. He or she can benefit from seeing how this comes across to a third party.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Jawgap wrote: »
    You clearly know very little about career breaks in the public and civil services, and are hence unable to make a constructive contribution to answering the question posed.

    So it's not a good perk?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Zambia wrote: »
    So it's not a good perk?

    It can and often does suit both parties.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Addle


    I'm a public servant, not on career break, and I can be made move at any time.
    I think there's a limit of 45km for the distance in location change.
    It seems to me that it's just very bad manners that you weren't informed.
    Did you leave a forwarding address?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Jawgap wrote: »
    It can and often does suit both parties.

    Fair enough do not answer the question put to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Addle


    Zambia wrote: »
    So it's not a good perk?

    It is a good perk of employment, and not one that's limited to public service employees.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭runnerholic


    Zambia wrote: »
    Fair enough do not answer the question put to you.

    Pots and kettles


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Addle wrote: »
    It is a good perk of employment, and not one that's limited to public service employees.

    Many firms do, 3 years is the longest I have heard of.

    The ps also refuse them. It's not ps specific at al. The initial check the contact advice is very solid. But I can't be the only one to see how this comes across.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Zambia wrote: »
    Fair enough do not answer the question put to you.

    I thought you knew about them?

    Btw, I work in the private sector, but up until September this year I was in the Public Sector - career breaks included, the 'perks' in the PS are a pale shadow of what I receive now.

    Career breaks are a useful, efficient and cost-effective way to quickly reduce head count. Between 2008 and about mid-2010, the organisation I worked for reduced it's establishment by about 25% through natural wasteage and people taking career breaks (and not coming back). That was about 30 staff, and only 2 redundancy payments had to be made.

    And 'your' job isn't held for you - you come back and fill whatever job appropriate to your skills and experience needs filling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Pots and kettles

    I'm sorry have If I have not answered a question put to me. Would you mind repeating it ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Jawgap wrote: »
    I thought you knew about them?

    Btw, I work in the private sector, but up until September this year I was in the Public Sector - career breaks included, the 'perks' in the PS are a pale shadow of what I receive now.

    Career breaks are a useful, efficient and cost-effective way to quickly reduce head count. Between 2008 and about mid-2010, the organisation I worked for reduced it's establishment by about 25% through natural wasteage and people taking career breaks (and not coming back). That was about 30 staff, and only 2 redundancy payments had to be made.

    And 'your' job isn't held for you - you come back and fill whatever job appropriate to your skills and experience needs filling.

    I see no issue with any off this. But if you want to take a year or two off and your job allows you to it's a good thing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭Pipmae


    Non-profit making semi-state here and if you get a career break you're job is back filled on a permanent basis. Three months before you're due to return from the CB you're offered a job at the same level but not necessarily the same location. You can refuse the offer and hold out for offer number two and three. If you refuse the third offer then you are effectively resigning (as per the career break contract).

    The company has to come up with the three offers within 12 months of the expiry date of the career break so effectively if you take a three year career break you could be off for four years albeit in a bit of limbo.

    The maximum career break is three years. It used to be five but the company took a decision about eight years ago to bring it back to three. There are no exceptions to the above - you are no longer a member of staff if you don't take the third offer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Zambia wrote: »
    I see no issue with any off this. But if you want to take a year or two off and your job allows you two it's a good thing.

    So it's gone from being a 'great perk' to just being a 'good thing' :rolleyes:

    It's also worth considering why people take career breaks. Yes, a significant portion take them to go travelling, set up a business or raise a family, but the last one I signed off on was for a young AO to help her Dad look after her seriously ill mother.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Pipmae wrote: »
    Non-profit making semi-state here and if you get a career break you're job is back filled on a permanent basis. Three months before you're due to return from the CB you're offered a job at the same level but not necessarily the same location. You can refuse the offer and hold out for offer number two and three. If you refuse the third offer then you are effectively resigning (as per the career break contract).

    The company has to come up with the three offers within 12 months of the expiry date of the career break so effectively if you take a three year career break you could be off for four years albeit in a bit of limbo.

    The maximum career break is three years. It used to be five but the company took a decision about eight years ago to bring it back to three. There are no exceptions to the above - you are no longer a member of staff if you don't take the third offer.

    Likewise, the employer can terminate the CB at 6 months notice, afaik. We let a load of staff go on CBs at our parent department's insistence. Then had to get a good chunk to come back. They were simply given an ultimatum to return by a certain date or they'd be considered to have resigned.........

    ........but there were no redundancies ;)

    A lot of women who had applied for CBs for family reasons simply resigned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Addle


    And you're not guaranteed your job back when your career break ends, you could be out of work for up to a year, and you can't sign on while waiting for a position to open. So they can be risky.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Jawgap wrote: »
    So it's gone from being a 'great perk' to just being a 'good thing' :rolleyes:

    It's also worth considering why people take career breaks. Yes, a significant portion take them to go travelling, set up a business or raise a family, but the last one I signed off on was for a young AO to help her Dad look after her seriously ill mother.

    Come on I still think getting three years off is a great perk. I was asking you do you even think it's a good thing?

    I know some reasons for taking them are terrible but the fact a employer would grant the leave is not.

    The safety net to someone knowing they can return to a safe and steady income is at least "a good thing".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Zambia wrote: »
    Come on I still think getting three years off is a great perk. I was asking you do you even think it's a good thing?

    I know some reasons for taking them are terrible but the fact a employer would grant the leave is not.

    The safety net to someone knowing they can return to a safe and steady income is at least "a good thing".

    Well I can only speak for myself, but if the choice was give up one item in my current benefits package for the option of taking a career break ( even a three year one) - I'd tell my boss to get lost!

    It mightn't seem like it to the average Indo reader, but CBs very much have a double edge to them.......as the OP is unfortunately finding out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    OP, I assume, as have others that this is a three year career break which is almost over. If so, it does seem reasonable that your old manager would assess their needs and if they don't have a requirement, seek another placement for you. That they were able to do this with a nearby office is more in your favour than either travelling/relocating or being laid off. Sounds like a Win Win situation to me.

    If the manager of the new office has identified a need for your skillset, then of course they should be asked if you can extend your leave.

    Check all your contracts, letters etc. Make sure you haven't missed/lost any letters. If they say they contacted you and you don't have a record of it, ask for copies. Best of luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    And 'your' job isn't held for you - you come back and fill whatever job appropriate to your skills and experience needs filling.

    And presumably, wherever that job may now be located as it may have moved during your absence...?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Op what exactly is your grievance? You were aware that you may not be going back to the same posting and now it has been confirmed to you. It was always going to be done in advance of your return otherwise you would be returning to your old post just to be immediately moved to your new one which takes more time. Is it that you think your new manager will be less open to your extension?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    I have a question

    Do they hire someone else when another goes on a career break?

    And what happens to that person when the career breakee comes back?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    And presumably, wherever that job may now be located as it may have moved during your absence...?

    No I think the job has to be within reasonable travelling distance - 45km is usually bandied about but it depends for example on whether that means a trip across a city.

    Although during the whole decentralisation fiasco a lot of people were told 'your job might be in Dublin but your career is in Cork'!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Polo_Mint wrote: »
    I have a question

    Do they hire someone else when another goes on a career break?

    And what happens to that person when the career breakee comes back?

    Not usually. There will be a bit of shuffling around or someone by be promoted temporarily.

    If you need to bring in a new hire then the post isn't suitable for a career break.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Not usually. There will be a bit of shuffling around or someone by be promoted temporarily.

    If you need to bring in a new hire then the post isn't suitable for a career break.

    Thanks :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Zambia wrote: »
    A 4 year career break?

    Your post sounds like you have been given a load of money for free and are bitching about the envelope it came in.

    Stheno wrote: »
    Public sector career breaks are unpaid

    Sounds to me like the original three years was coming to an end and the new location was arranged in advance of the op coming back

    Zambia wrote: »
    I am well aware but for a firm to hold a job for you for three years is a great perk.

    You're showing ignorance here as you're caught out pretending you know about PS career breaks when it's clear you don't. Your knowledge probably comes from reading the Irish Independent so I don't really blame you for your ignorance but you should have the decency to apologise to OP.

    OP - I'm not looking for any personal info here but you might indicate if it's the Civil Service or Public Service that you're in and whether you had more than 3/4 years service before you took your career break.

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Jawgap wrote: »
    No I think the job has to be within reasonable travelling distance - 45km is usually bandied about but it depends for example on whether that means a trip across a city.

    That 45 rule only has to be adhered to "where possible", in reality the distance can be far far more.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Polo_Mint wrote: »
    I have a question

    Do they hire someone else when another goes on a career break?

    And what happens to that person when the career breakee comes back?

    No, if you're go on career break your post might be covered but it will be from existing resources.

    In recent years career breaks have been given in an effort to take people off the pay roll, not add to it by replacing staff on CB.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    The whole CB thing is full of dangers. I've met people who took a CB thinking they were going to get SW and has done a household budget based on that assumption. Disaster.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,247 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Zambia wrote: »
    A 4 year career break?

    Your post sounds like you have been given a load of money for free and are bitching about the envelope it came in.

    People in career breaks are not paid everyone would do it. I know they had a paid one 6 years ago but that is over


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    The whole CB thing is full of dangers. I've met people who took a CB thinking they were going to get SW and has done a household budget based on that assumption. Disaster.

    The terrible thing about them is if you get a 2 year career break you can be waiting another year after that to be put back on the payroll. During that year you're not allowed claim Social Welfare and until recently you weren't allowed any other paid employment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    You're showing ignorance here as you're caught out pretending you know about PS career breaks when it's clear you don't. Your knowledge probably comes from reading the Irish Independent so I don't really blame you for your ignorance but you should have the decency to apologise to OP.

    OP - I'm not looking for any personal info here but you might indicate if it's the Civil Service or Public Service that you're in and whether you had more than 3/4 years service before you took your career break.

    Thanks.
    People in career breaks are not paid everyone would do it. I know they had a paid one 6 years ago but that is over

    I'm pretty sure his reference to an envelope with money is an analogy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Does the OP feel they should have waited until he/she returned from the career break before relocating the dept...?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,247 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Does the OP feel they should have waited until he/she returned from the career break before relocating the dept...?

    No I think it was the fact that they were relocating or relocated and had not heard about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,247 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I'm pretty sure his reference to an envelope with money is an analogy.

    Don't get it. Or are you saying all public servants get paid vast amount of money


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    I'm pretty sure his reference to an envelope with money is an analogy.
    Pretty bad analogy.

    As another poster said, the public service and large firms have over the past few years used career breaks as a cheap way of lowering labour costs. It's also a cheap and effective way of re-assigning workers, if they return.

    The clear implication in Zambia's post was that the OP was involved in some kind of scheme where another party concedes all benefits.

    In fact, there are pros and cons for both sides, and in large organizations the negatives usually weigh heaviest on the person who takes a career break, perhaps arising out of personal circumstances at home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    You're showing ignorance here as you're caught out pretending you know about PS career breaks when it's clear you don't. Your knowledge probably comes from reading the Irish Independent so I don't really blame you for your ignorance but you should have the decency to apologise to OP.
    .

    This is pure babble. FFS


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    conorh91 wrote: »
    Pretty bad analogy.

    The clear implication in Zambia's post was that the OP was involved in some kind of scheme where another party concedes all benefits.

    It's not I should have gone with a simpler example I suppose.

    Let me break it down.

    The OP has been granted a 3 year CB.
    The OP does not intend to return to work the 4th year.
    The OP is taking umbridge as the job they are not going to do is in a place they don't want to work.

    By next year the firm they are with could transfer them back to the original location.

    I have stated quite clearly the intention of my first post its to make it quite clear how this comes across to a possible third party.

    It was not anti PS or making remarks about PS wages. If you take it that way well good luck to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,314 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Zambia wrote: »
    A 4 year career break?

    Your post sounds like you have been given a load of money for free and are bitching about the envelope it came in.
    I'm going to have to agree to this. Seems the OP was happy to take the deal at the time, but looking for a way around it now they have to complete the side of the deal that they agreed to three years ago.

    Maybe the OP may have been hoping they'd be going back to their original location first, and then been asked to move? The only reason why would be that the OP may have hoped to be able to fight the move then. Seems the move stops this from happening.

    Also, I'm guessing whatever rapport the OP had with their old boss, they won't have it their new one, and thus won't be able to swing an extension to the CB so easily.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Addle


    Zambia wrote: »
    The OP is taking umbridge as the job they are not going to do is in a place they don't want to work.

    Where is it shown that the OP has taken umbrage?
    The OP wrote of acceptance!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Addle


    the_syco wrote: »
    ...Seems the OP...

    Maybe the OP ...

    Also, I'm guessing whatever ...

    That's a lot of conjecture.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Zambia wrote: »
    It's not I should have gone with a simpler example I suppose.

    Let me break it down.

    The OP has been granted a 3 year CB.
    The OP does not intend to return to work the 4th year.
    The OP is taking umbridge as the job they are not going to do is in a place they don't want to work.

    By next year the firm they are with could transfer them back to the original location.

    I have stated quite clearly the intention of my first post its to make it quite clear how this comes across to a possible third party.

    It was not anti PS or making remarks about PS wages. If you take it that way well good luck to you.

    You described it as a 'perk' - I think it's been conclusively shown that CBs are and can be used by PS organisations to manage head count. It's a pernicious form of redundancy given that to get one you and your employer must be able to demonstrate your absence can be accommodated.

    The conditions of return are quite prescriptive and if you don't or can't accept a position when you are due to come back you're finished - no redundancy payment, no golden parachute - you're gone. You can be recalled and the conditions attaching to the CB, especially regarding taking on other work, are restrictive.

    Also, you're not 'entitled' to a CB as a matter of right. You can be refused because you cannot be accommodated or because the organisation already has it's quota on CB.

    But all that aside, it's a great perk :rolleyes:


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