Deceptive sales practices re: 2 week "cooling off" period. €450 cancellation fee

oisin52

Hi there,

We had a door-to-door salesman for EVision come to the house on Wednesday Nov 26th. I sat down with him and he went through the benefits etc of the service. I was quite impressed, and he used the fact that we would have a "2 week trial" to bait me into signing up to try the service. So I decided to go ahead with it. The set-top boxes weren't delivered or installed until Dec 20th. Immediately after having tried the service that night and the following day, I was quite unhappy - the salesman had promised that all of the shows I mentioned to him (documentaries on various discovery channels) would be available on EVision but this was not the case. Additionally, on the morning of the 22nd we found that the set-top box would no longer turn on as the power cable had fried. I rang to cancel that afternoon and was told that our "cooling off period" of 2 weeks had actually expired as it was from the date of the order, not the date of installation. Thus I was lied to about being able to "test out the service with no commitment" (the salesmans words). Now the cancellations department are looking for [font=arial, sans-serif]€450 for us to get out of contract (to go back to Sky + Vodafone) despite the fact that we've only had the service a few days.[/font]

Between a number of problems (channels not being available, broken set-top box, internet going down for an hour or more every night due to DNS problems - eircoms DNS servers become unresponsive around midnight every night) all I want to do is get out of the contract and go back to my current provider (whose contracts I have not cancelled in anticipation of the fact that I would be able to return to them if needs be). I'm very unhappy with what I see as misleading sales practices from Eircom reps - please advise.

Thanks,
Oisin

oisin52

By the way, I spent 30+ mins on the phone with fiber tech support today about the DNS issue and the rep didn't offer any useful solution. But even then they said the best they could do was transfer me to cancellations (and not doing anything about the [font=arial, sans-serif]€450).[/font]

eircom: Alan

oisin52 wrote: »

By the way, I spent 30+ mins on the phone with fiber tech support today about the DNS issue and the rep didn't offer any useful solution. But even then they said the best they could do was transfer me to cancellations (and not doing anything about the [font=arial, sans-serif]€450).[/font]

Hi oisin52

I'm sorry to hear of these issues, do please PM me your eircom account number and I'll look in to this further for you.

Thanks
Al

oisin52

Hey Alan just wondering it you had a chance to look into this yet? Still having issues earlier today. PM'd you account details yesterday.

dub45

In the short term have you tried changing to google dns settings? 8.8.8.8 - 8.8.4.4

https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/

eircom: Alan

oisin52 wrote: »

Hey Alan just wondering it you had a chance to look into this yet? Still having issues earlier today. PM'd you account details yesterday.

Hello oisin52

I have had confirmation from our accounts team that the contract will not be able to be cancelled as the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is ordered and not when it is installed.

I understand that this is not the news you wanted to hear however to further contest this on the terms of being mislead you will need to lodge an official complaint with either eircom accounts on free phone 1901 or the compliance regulator on [font=Calibri","sans-serif]1890229668

Thanks
Al
[/font]

Saipanne

Wow. What a bunch of con men.

Baron Kurtz

These people are unbelievable. I am currently mired in a debacle of a similar nature with Eircom (eMobile, specifically).

They have this insular, caustic approach and when they fail the customer (which is how things begin) and are questioned, they refuse to concede their system was ever incorrect. And then with immediate effect they scream for funds supposedly owed to them without ever addressing the original problem. Their type of practice is horrific. Proper schyster underhandedness.

DesperateDan

Exact same thing has happened to my mum. She's just refusing to pay and cancelled the direct debit. Fairly ridiculous alright, I believe the real problem is these door to door salesmen, they literally totally lie to your face to get their commission. It's like they are totally untrained, but they know they can lie to you all they want because you have to deal with Eircom and not them.

I would certainly question Eircom's stance on this as well.

DesperateDan

Actually looking in to the cooling off period rules, the seller is providing a 'service' so it looks like they have covered themselves. I would ask if Eircom provided your right-to-cancel rules to you:

[font=Arial, 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif, Verdana]"If a trader fails to provide you with information on the right to cancel, the cooling-off period is extended to 12 months from the date it would have expired if the information had been provided. If the trader provides the information within this 12-month period, the cooling-off period expires within 14 days of the consumer receiving it."[/font]

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html



This is definitely a loop-hole in the law that I hope will be closed soon. I've heard the same story from many people regarding Eircom.

paulheu

Don't fall for this scam. Under European consumer law they HAVE to allow you to cancel the contract purely based on not delivering on promised services and/or faulty product(s) no matter what they say or claim. If you would have to take this to a court of law you will win and they will not let it get that far because they know this.

Demand to speak to a manager directly and insist on cancellation. Take this to their public media channels and make sure stick to your story. I have had  my share of scam offers since I've been here and have been able to get out of it every time.

Skatedude

As above, you were sold the package under false advertising.  Make sure you mention that in any correspondence.

Saipanne

I'd ring the National Consumer Agency. Google them.

nomeban

I just randomly stumbled across this thread as it was featured on the front page of boards. What a load of crap, looks like you're screwed Oisin!

Little fish

oisin52 wrote: »

Hi there,

We had a door-to-door salesman for EVision come to the house on Wednesday Nov 26th. I sat down with him and he went through the benefits etc of the service. I was quite impressed, and he used the fact that we would have a "2 week trial" to bait me into signing up to try the service. So I decided to go ahead with it. The set-top boxes weren't delivered or installed until Dec 20th. Immediately after having tried the service that night and the following day, I was quite unhappy - the salesman had promised that all of the shows I mentioned to him (documentaries on various discovery channels) would be available on EVision but this was not the case. Additionally, on the morning of the 22nd we found that the set-top box would no longer turn on as the power cable had fried. I rang to cancel that afternoon and was told that our "cooling off period" of 2 weeks had actually expired as it was from the date of the order, not the date of installation. Thus I was lied to about being able to "test out the service with no commitment" (the salesmans words). Now the cancellations department are looking for [font=arial, sans-serif]€450 for us to get out of contract (to go back to Sky + Vodafone) despite the fact that we've only had the service a few days.[/font]

Between a number of problems (channels not being available, broken set-top box, internet going down for an hour or more every night due to DNS problems - eircoms DNS servers become unresponsive around midnight every night) all I want to do is get out of the contract and go back to my current provider (whose contracts I have not cancelled in anticipation of the fact that I would be able to return to them if needs be). I'm very unhappy with what I see as misleading sales practices from Eircom reps - please advise.

Thanks,
Oisin

Dear Oisin, Welcome to Eircom ! - The only way to get a complaint officially logged is by emailing it to ComReg. Good luck.

Beaner1

eircom: Alan wrote: »

Hello oisin52

I have had confirmation from our accounts team that the contract will not be able to be cancelled as the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is ordered and not when it is installed.

I understand that this is not the news you wanted to hear however to further contest this on the terms of being mislead you will need to lodge an official complaint with either eircom accounts on free phone 1901 or the compliance regulator on [font=Calibri","sans-serif]1890229668

Thanks
Al
[/font]

What a scam. I'll never do business with you again after hearing his experience.

Kristopherus

eircom: Alan wrote: »

oisin52 wrote: »

Hey Alan just wondering it you had a chance to look into this yet? Still having issues earlier today. PM'd you account details yesterday.

Hello oisin52

I have had confirmation from our accounts team that the contract will not be able to be cancelled as the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is ordered and not when it is installed.

I understand that this is not the news you wanted to hear however to further contest this on the terms of being mislead you will need to lodge an official complaint with either eircom accounts on free phone 1901 or the compliance regulator on 1890229668

Thanks
Al

Totally incorrect, as has already been posted. Come out of that Ivory Tower and give the man his entitled free cancellation.

paulheu

Kristopherus wrote: »

eircom: Alan wrote: »

oisin52 wrote: »

Hey Alan just wondering it you had a chance to look into this yet? Still having issues earlier today. PM'd you account details yesterday.

Hello oisin52

I have had confirmation from our accounts team that the contract will not be able to be cancelled as the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is ordered and not when it is installed.

I understand that this is not the news you wanted to hear however to further contest this on the terms of being mislead you will need to lodge an official complaint with either eircom accounts on free phone 1901 or the compliance regulator on 1890229668

Thanks
Al

Totally incorrect, as has already been posted. Come out of that Ivory Tower and give the man his entitled free cancellation.

Yeah, _ANYONE_ who ever worked in a CallCentre will be able to debunk this quickly. There is _always_ the option to let the customer go free but that's not whet the agent on the floor will tell you or most of the time will provide. Only by escalating this to a higher level, starting with a team manager, you will get anywhere. 

Esox Lucias

This is just disgraceful. Sales rep says one thing. Company another. Will never deal with and shall always advise people to stay away from these crooks.

Daisy 55

What? Words fail me!

eezipc

I have cancelled products before with Eircom, UPC and Vodafone. If you are not receiving the service you are paying for then you have a right to cancel. Also the two week trial fiasco is shocking. How can you trial a product if you have not received it yet? Crazy stuff from Eircom. If I were you I would keep shouting until they listen. Public forums such as this are a good start.

oconnorw

An organisation I would never do business with at any time. I speak from experience. Cancel the direct debit immediately and go to national consumer agency.

gctest50

eircom: Alan wrote: »

I have had confirmation from our accounts team that the contract will not be able to be cancelled as

the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is ordered and not when it is installed.

That needs to change to : the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is installed / working

Ideo

eircom: Alan wrote: »

Hello oisin52

I have had confirmation from our accounts team that the contract will not be able to be cancelled as the 14 day timeframe is from when the service is ordered and not when it is installed.

I understand that this is not the news you wanted to hear however to further contest this on the terms of being mislead you will need to lodge an official complaint with either eircom accounts on free phone 1901 or the compliance regulator on [font=Calibri","sans-serif]1890229668

Thanks
Al
[/font]

Eircom, I am NOT an eircom customer, (my UPC contract is up next month so I am considering my options) but I must add that this practise is shocking. 14 days from the date of order, and sure it takes 3-5 days to have the line installed so you could be down to 9 days before you can test the service. And now you are saying tough luck? Honestly, that is appalling treatment of this customer's issues.

OP, tell your bank to cancel the direct debit and tell eircom to arrange collection of their modem etc. if they cannot provide the service the promised then don't pay them for it, it's a simple as.

hdowney

Yea I agree no way I will even consider eircom and EVision for my phone, broadband and television after hearing this. shocking practice altogether

Rachiee

I am so shocked at this it's absolutely appalling will never deal with within after reading this! This is a total scam hope comreg can sort this out.ridiculous

P_1

Pretty sure that the 14 day cooling off period starts when the service begins and not from the date of purchase (source several jobs in customer service). If that is what the policy currently is in Eircom someone has made a serious boo boo.

That really needs to be kicked on further up 1) to redress this particular issue and 2) to spare the good folk working on the frontline and potential unneeded grief from customers thanks to a cock up made by those above them.

paulheu

Eircom can state or print whatever they want in the T&C.

European Consumer Law tells a very different story and trumps a companies T&C. They have to cancel without further fees or obligations on your end.


The fact that the 'reps' choose not to respond any further is a big flag here. I'd take this to their Facebook page. Bring it up in forums/FB pages for organisations doing business with them for sponsoring and such..

Polo_Mint

lol

Eircom

How can you have a 2 week cooling off period if you have not supplied the service to be tested in them 2 weeks.

Thats like ordering a new car with a years guarantee . Car gets delivered after 10 months for you to find out you have only 2 months left on the guarantee

paulheu

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm

14 days to withdraw when purchasing goods

In the EU, for contracts concluded as of 13 June 2014, you have the right to withdraw from your online purchase as well as from purchases made elsewhere than in shops (e.g. from a salesman on your doorstep; by phone or mail order) within 14 days.

This “cooling off” period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. However, if this period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day.

You can choose to withdraw from your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.

Good luck trying to enforce your view here when European law tell a very different story!

Starokan

If this is your company policy then someone needs to talk to your reps to ensure they are informing the prospective clients exactly how things work. I had an Eircom rep call to me and I got the same sales pitch as the OP - basically check out the service when its installed and if your not happy you can cancel. 

I understand that your policy is your policy end of but this should be looked at instead of trying to simply fob the customer off. If a person representing your company sold under false pretences then at the least you should put the 450 on hold and escalate it to a more senior level, I appreciate its a catch 22 as the rep can hardly admit to it. The reality is in fairness we all   know the pressures the reps are under to deliver but there is an onus on Eircom to ensure that the sales pitches being provided are correct and accurate

Kelly06

Saipanne wrote: »

Wow. What a bunch of con men.

Agreed, steer clear of eircom so. 14 day cooling off Period was over before he could even avail of the service, shambles

paulheu

Starokan wrote: »

I understand that your policy is your policy end of but this should be looked at instead of trying to simply fob the customer off. 

Their policy is in direct violation of European Consumer Law and thus void. If their reps tell you that you have 14 days to cancel for whatever reason once you receive the package they are actually making a correct statement. It's the support staff and (apparently) legal dept who should get educated.

Rachiee

Wonder if any eircom staff are going to wade in here again? maybe you should go to Joe Duffy not to be facetious but it does seem to work

Daisy 55

Took us WAY more than 14 days between the order and the installation !

oisin52

Just to let everyone I kept shouting and after many hours of calls I found that they breached their own terms and conditions by not having the service installed within 14 days of purchase so they had no choice but to cancel my order Thank god for that never again will I even look at eircom what a shower buyer beware

oisin52

Rachiee wrote: »

Wonder if any eircom staff are going to wade in here again? maybe you should go to Joe Duffy not to be facetious but it does seem to work

All sorted no thanks to eircom but thanks to a mate who said check their terms and conditions

Hank Scorpio

Good to hear you got it sorted?

Threads like these doesn't surprise me anymore, their entire company and business model is rotten to the core

Beaner1

oisin52 wrote: »

Rachiee wrote: »

Wonder if any eircom staff are going to wade in here again? maybe you should go to Joe Duffy not to be facetious but it does seem to work

All sorted no thanks to eircom but thanks to a mate who said check their terms and conditions

Nice one. Any more details on the contract side? 

hdowney

Fantastic news. You really do have to fight hard with companies like this though, they hope that if they stand their ground - even if in the wrong - people will just accept it and move on. Need to show them we are NOT pushovers

whiterebel

paulheu wrote: »

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm

14 days to withdraw when purchasing goods

In the EU, for contracts concluded as of 13 June 2014, you have the right to withdraw from your online purchase as well as from purchases made elsewhere than in shops (e.g. from a salesman on your doorstep; by phone or mail order) within 14 days.

This “cooling off” period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. However, if this period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day.

You can choose to withdraw from your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.

Good luck trying to enforce your view here when European law tell a very different story!

You are talking about a delivery of product, not a service. Further down n the document it refers to service contracts:


[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif]"Service contracts[/font][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif]You may also withdraw from a service contract - for instance a telephone subscription - concluded online or with a door-to-door salesman. You have 14 days to withdraw once the contract has been concluded.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif]If you want the trader to start providing the service - e.g. to connect your phone - directly without waiting for the 14-day period to lapse, you must expressly request this. If you nevertheless choose to withdraw after starting to receive the service, you must pay for the time you used it. If the service contract - for example, repainting a room - has been fully executed before the end of the 14-day withdrawal period, you can no longer withdraw as the work has been finished."[/font]

DesperateDan

This is a legal oversight, I'm sure UPC and all the rest would behave the same if they took 12 or 14 days to get broadband out to you and people wanted to cancel a week after receiving. 

Until it's sorted, the moral of the story is to totally cancel the contract with any of these providers if you don't get anything before 14 days, and give yourself lee-way to fully test the service. In fact if I didn't get fully set-up within 5 days I'd cancel, especially after situations like this.

Glad you got out OP!

dbit

The sad part about this thread is that it does not reach its intended audience , Eircom are doing this on a viscious level . Think of all the non tekky minded that are being hammered by this behaviour and abused by eircom Bullish behavior , a provider is supposed to provide not rape.

I have seen many freinds in the past get stung by 14 day and cancelled anyway - thus they DD his remaining contract price - COMREG got it all back for them , What about all those poor people who know nothing about comreg , or about Boards or googling your rights . Eircom are in breech of practically every retail law out there and yet the run around as if they are still state owned ?



I feel a you tube video in my loins ......

lawred2

whiterebel wrote: »

paulheu wrote: »

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm

14 days to withdraw when purchasing goods

In the EU, for contracts concluded as of 13 June 2014, you have the right to withdraw from your online purchase as well as from purchases made elsewhere than in shops (e.g. from a salesman on your doorstep; by phone or mail order) within 14 days.

This “cooling off” period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. However, if this period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day.

You can choose to withdraw from your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.

Good luck trying to enforce your view here when European law tell a very different story!

You are talking about a delivery of product, not a service. Further down n the document it refers to service contracts:


[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif]"Service contracts[/font][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif]You may also withdraw from a service contract - for instance a telephone subscription - concluded online or with a door-to-door salesman. You have 14 days to withdraw once the contract has been concluded.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'DejaVu Sans', sans-serif]If you want the trader to start providing the service - e.g. to connect your phone - directly without waiting for the 14-day period to lapse, you must expressly request this. If you nevertheless choose to withdraw after starting to receive the service, you must pay for the time you used it. If the service contract - for example, repainting a room - has been fully executed before the end of the 14-day withdrawal period, you can no longer withdraw as the work has been finished."[/font]

surely the contract has been 'concluded' when the service has been delivered?

lawred2

oisin52 wrote: »

Rachiee wrote: »

Wonder if any eircom staff are going to wade in here again? maybe you should go to Joe Duffy not to be facetious but it does seem to work

All sorted no thanks to eircom but thanks to a mate who said check their terms and conditions

what part of the terms and conditions?