Getting paid by customer

seamie15

Hi all,im new here,just a fast question,i deliver install range of play equipment,sheds,etc,normally i take a deposit via bank transfer,all correspondence via e mail,my constant problem,is when all the equipment is installed,and balance is due,then the haggling starts,and as they hold the money,they want €50 off

Is it possible for me to say,here,look,i have the equipment in the van,so,i need to be paid before i install

Regards
Seamis15

tricky D

One possible way is to make sure it is clear that you own the gear until full payment is made. If they start messing after the install, the sight of you starting to uninstall the gear should concentrate their minds for them especially if children are watching. Perhaps an additional reinstall fee might be an idea (for wasting your time).

seamie15

Thanks Tricky,for the reply,i really suppose asking for balance before install wouldnt really run,as they would say,but we cant see it installed

seamus

Send the invoice via email after you've taken the deposit, with - as said above - large type noting that all equipment remains your property until the invoice is paid in full.

I would also put a big "BALANCE PAYABLE AT TIME OF INSTALLATION: €xxx.xx" on it, so it's clear what's expected. I tend to find that if you appear to be a little unclear about what the final price is, ("Ah, it'll be around €300"), then people feel like they can haggle on it after the work is done. If you quote them a fixed price, they're less likely to try and haggle it when it comes time to pay up.

Though there will always be hagglers, they're unavoidable. It's a good idea to make notes in your files about difficult customers. So if someone rings up again looking for more work, you can refer to your notes and you'll know to steer clear the next time if you had to spend 3 weeks chasing someone for payment.

I think to a certain extent it would also be OK to ask for payment just before installation - Most peoples' fear is that you'll take the money and they'll have to chase you to get you to turn up. But if you're there with everything in the van, then they can pay you there and then, and then you install the equipment. Since you're expecting to be paid on that day anyway, the customer should have the money on them.

Obviously some people might find this a bit odd, so I probably wouldn't do it this way unless this is a constant problem you're having with customers.

seamie15

Thanks Seamus,usually they are one off customers,as i dont meet them till i arrive in mayo or kerry,and ive already sent them an e mail regarding balance,but,your advice on the e mail stating that its still my property,sounds like a good idea,although its on terms and conditions on my website,but,they may not look at that

Wonder,could i put,balance is not negotiable once installation is completed

cormie

Just tell them you've already put the sale through at the specified agreed amount so unfortunately you can't knock anything off. If you have a print out of the invoice, not hand written, ready to give them upon receipt of payment, it should come across less opportunistic for hagglers.

If they are annoying you just offer them the opportunity to tip you instead :pac:

seamus

seamie15 wrote: »

Thanks Seamus,usually they are one off customers,as i dont meet them till i arrive in mayo or kerry,and ive already sent them an e mail regarding balance,but,your advice on the e mail stating that its still my property,sounds like a good idea,although its on terms and conditions on my website,but,they may not look at that

Wonder,could i put,balance is not negotiable once installation is completed

Yeah, you could definitely do that, or put "Balance is final and non-negotiable" on the invoice or something.

I don't know how you operate specifically, but I'm assuming you quote them over the phone or something, then they sort out the deposit.

If you give more time for haggling at the quotation point of the process, then they'll feel like they've fought for a better deal. What you could do is send them through a quote over email, and wait for them to come back to accept it or haggle over it. Once that's done then you take the deposit and send the invoice, and I reckon they'd be less likely to try and haggle it further.

Sounds like a pain in the ass and a lot of paperwork, but there are accounting packages out there that let you sort this stuff out. Something like www.bullethq.com will let you send quotes to customers over email, and then if they accept the quote, you can change the quote to an invoice.

I just get the feeling that if you're sending emails about prices or just mentioning it over the phone, they don't feel like it's final. But if they get a proper invoice, then they'll know it's the actual price and not the first quote. But, like I say, you'll always get hagglers and assholes.

seamie15

Great reply Seamus,really appreciate your imput
Thanks

antoinolachtnai

People may do this in some parts of the country not just because they are tricky buggers but because it's a tradition to give something back at the end of a deal.

This is probably a reversal on how you do the sales process part of things, but when you arrive on site, you need to give the impression that you are just a little guy working for a big organization and you need to collect the money for your boss. (In fact, when you think of your wife, your kids, your suppliers, the Revenue, Topaz, the bank, and all the other people who are depending on you to pay your bills, you will realise that you are not actually the boss at all.)

Having official-looking paperwork, a decaled van, wearing a uniform, having an ID card and all that official-looking stuff will help create this impression.

If they start this carry-on, tell them you have to call the boss and ask her. Then go back to them with the disappointing news or just tell them the boss isn't around. If you want another get-out, have something you can throw in to close the deal. Just something that looks fancy but is actually quite cheap, spare seats or bolts, or whatever.

You have to look like you are happy enough to just dismantle the stuff again and head straight home.

I wouldn't put anything about 'balance not being negotiable' on there. I imagine your suppliers don't do it, neither should you.

Buttercake

Agreement of payment schedule, Signed Contract, Terms and Conditions. Pretty straightforward. I would ask for payment before the install.

If its a cash in hand thing, you will open yourself to and attract the hagglers.

If I book a hotel room online, ill pay a deposit and when I check out after staying there, I cant say at reception I'll give you €50 instead of €100

seamie15

Thanks Buttercake,yes,quiet a lot of time,the balance is in cash, how do i actually get a signed contract,if customer is,say,in donegal,can this be done via e mail,etc

Buttercake

an email from the customer confirming he/she wants to proceed with your service is an agreement.

You can also use online signature tools, your agreement appears on their phone or computer and they can sign online

Search any of these:
Echosign by Adobe
DocuSign

seamie15

Thanks again,will look later this evening

seamie15

Any savvy computer people here can give me a link on how to set up an e mail signature system
Thanks

mneylon

seamie15 wrote: »

Any savvy computer people here can give me a link on how to set up an e mail signature system
Thanks

http://office.microsoft.com/en-001/outlook-help/insert-a-signature-in-a-message-HP005242753.aspx

Buttercake

Blacknight wrote: »

http://office.microsoft.com/en-001/outlook-help/insert-a-signature-in-a-message-HP005242753.aspx

think he meant signing documents online!

Echosign is very easy, do a dummy one and send it to yourself

https://www.echosign.adobe.com/en/video/echosign-how-to-series-send-and-sign-documents.html

Del2005

No offence to the other posters here but if someone asked me to pay for something that they are going to supply and install before they install it they'd be driving back with a full van. The only way a customer can make sure that the job is done to their satisfaction is payment after installation and depending on the item I may hold back some to make sure it's done properly.

Edit..

This would be agreed before hand and also that it remains their property till final payment.

pedronomix

The best advice you got on here was to play the role of the bloke doing his job with no authority to do anything. I am, sure the issues arises at most 1 in 10 jobs, so a techno solution is OTT! other than the retention of title until paid in full clause. Basic decency dictates that you do not screw the lad doing his job! for those that try it on, be ready to remove your gear from the site. If you do this, they have the problem now, their deposit etc!!

seamie15

Thanks very much for all the replies, is it at all possible to get a customers signature via G mail,as that is what i use in correspondence

pedroeibar1

seamie15 wrote: »

Thanks very much for all the replies, is it at all possible to get a customers signature via G mail,as that is what i use in correspondence

Electronic signature is overkill for a set of garden/playground equipment and would cost you business. You have a contract as soon as they pay a deposit and confirm the order by email. (So what? - you are unlikely to take specific performance proceedings for a few hundred quid/balance o/s.) In that type of business I would have a 10% deposit with order, 80% on arrival on site and 10% on completion. (That way you'd get a feel for payment of the balance!)

The way you are charging, on arrival you tell them the full balance will be due on installation, will they be paying it in cash or cheque? (Personally I would go for cash and insist on it for small amounts!) Do not even discuss a discount – if they say anything answer that you are the installer (as pointed out by others above) and have a job to do, end of. If they start a haggle discussion, flatly say that you get paid in full or your orders are to return with the equipment i.e. take it away. ("and I think the boss retains the deposit to cover those charges!") You could as a sweetener tell them that ‘the boss’ often gives a finder’s fee to anyone who refers any new order to the co. (a good way of increasing your sales). If you 'win' with a haggler you should consider giving him/her a "free" football as a gesture.

Your website and invoice should clearly indicate your conditions of sale, retention of title, etc. From the outset be polite, firm and dismissive of any notion of a post-installation discount.

Volvoair

put up your prices by 50/80 euros. insist on full price .....if they insist on haggling ,then drop by 50e.
they get the shed/whatever.....you still get the job.
it called sales technique .its done in every car dealers, etc, across the country.
nobody will EVER pay the full asking price for anything from a private/self employed/ "tradesman".

seamie15

Thanks Pedroibar and Volvoair for your replies,very good advice indeed,much appreciated

enricoh

why not get 15% deposit, if u are doing a play area for 1000 n u get 150 up front at least it'll pay for diesel n the lad helping you if it goes tits up on the day. most are only chancing there arm but 1 in 10 will think now that its installed i'll knock 200 off n u'll still take it. throw it back in van n the next day a knob like that is in the past!
everyone on donedeal is looking for a few quid off so put up price by 50 to let em think they're a great negociator!
to be honest a luck penny of a tenner in 1000 isnt going to murder the bottom line either.

electronic signature will mean nothing to the one in 10 that are out to screw you. he knows u're not going to bring him to court for it n u know u're not going to bring him to court over it! and u know that the judge is going to side with him and by some miracle he sides with u , u still probably wont get paid!

seamie15

Thanks Enricoh for the post,yes indeed,i dont mind giving a luck penny after completion and getting paid in full,as its an old tradition,yes,i agree,with electronic signature not being the way to go either,so,ive increased prices slightly,to allow for that bit of haggling,so,hopefully all works out fine
Thanks again

sconhome

seamie15 wrote: »

Thanks Enricoh for the post,yes indeed,i dont mind giving a luck penny after completion and getting paid in full,as its an old tradition,yes,i agree,with electronic signature not being the way to go either,so,ive increased prices slightly,to allow for that bit of haggling,so,hopefully all works out fine
Thanks again

I think raising your prices is the wrong way to go.

You need to ask why are people buying from you in the first place. Is it your prices? Is it the service? Are you delivering on promises? Do you turn up on time?

Keep your prices as they are and stress the value in YOU.

As recommended a confirmation email on receipt of your deposit, thanking fofr the transfer, confimring the balance that is due on the completed installation, ask them to confirm if this will be cash, card or cheque. All done before you drive to site.

Also in this email stress the agreed price and that they are accepting this as final.

If they respond cash payment or whatever, you could then say that you have a bonus referral scheme that gets them €50 off if you get 1/2/3/4/5 enquiries from their friends or a discount for a Facebook testimonial.

Run this as a rebate. They trusted you for the deposit, they will trust you to refund them €50 in a month's time as reward for the referral.

End of haggling.

Luck penny is up to you to manage.

seamie15

Hi AKW,thanks for the post


You need to ask why are people buying from you in the first place. Is it your prices? Is it the service? Are you delivering on promises? Do you turn up on time?

Yes i deliver on all the above items

Yes I always respond to deposit received via e mail

Yes,i always insert full price,deposit recquired,with balance due upon completion

Maybe i will take your advice,and also insert this is the Agreed Price and they are taking this as Final

Referral also a good idea

Kind Regards
Seamie15