Another dog/puppy food question (raw)

ene

I am getting a cocker spaniel puppy in 3 weeks and at the moment he is being fed royal canin and also natural instinct raw puppy food.

From research i know royal cabin is quite over priced for the quality of it and i want to continue to feed both raw and kibble (for convenience really).

I was wondering what is a good quality food that will complement the RAW food.

I have looked at:
Arden Grange
Lilys Kitchen
Burns

but want to know others opinions!

Nody

Anything with out grain in them and preferably no rice. This means the likes of Taste of the Wild, Acana, Orijen etc. Usually the no grain once are listed as 80% meat but check the ingredient tab to be sure.

ene

How long would a big bag of them last for one dog? Just trying to work out cost of combination feeding!

Nody

ene wrote: »

How long would a big bag of them last for one dog? Just trying to work out cost of combination feeding!

Check out zooplus.ie and it's usually listed feeding guidelines; the above link is for Orijen for example.

DBB

Hey OP,
For various reasons and circumstances, I feed a dry/raw combo, having been 100% raw in the past.
I feed Taste of the Wild, and once you're combining with raw, it goes a long, long way! Because I'm feeding multiple dogs various different diets (long story) I can't tell you exactly how much a 13.5kg bag lasts, but I think my almost 40kg GSD must get 3 months + out of a bag, but that's with a large dollop of raw (probably 60% raw).
Sounds to me like your breeder is pretty well sussed out, congratulations on your new pup! One thing I would suggest you check out, given the breed's disposition to be a tad possessive, is that the breeder is feeding the pups from separate bowls, and supervising mealtimes. Food-guarding is so easy to avoid, but as the breed is strongly inclined to it, I'd hope the breeder is taking simple steps to avoid it.
You might also look up swapping games, and teaching your new pup to really enjoy (not just tolerate) you, your family, and kids, approaching him/her whilst he eats or plays with toys.

ene

hmm ok so a cocker spaniel will properly get more from it. Does the bag have long expiry date on it?

I think i will probably feed dry food in the morning and raw in the evening. Though i have never fed raw before so am open to try anything!

I know at the moment she feeds the pups from one big bowl, they are only 5 weeks old though. I was planning on doing a lot of work with him when he is eating e.g. taking food from the bowl

I don't know whether to ask the breeder to feed seperately as there are 10 pups!

ene

sorry can i also ask what high value training treats do you use? i used to use coachies but i don't know if they would be appetising enough as he will be fed far better food!

DBB

ene wrote: »

I was planning on doing a lot of work with him when he is eating e.g. taking food from the bowl

Nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooo!
As I said in my post, you want him to be happy about you being anywhere near his bowl, so the old adage about taking food from his bowl is a recipe for making him feel peed off at you coming anywhere near him while he's eating. I can't tell you how many Cockers I know that have developed problems around the food bowl when owners try this tactic.
So, here's a different tack to try. Split his food into several small portions. Give him one small portion. As he finishes it, approach him, and pour the next small portion into his bowl. Stand back.
As he finishes that, approach him, and pour the next portion in,
And so on, until all portions are eaten.
Where kids are involved, they do not pour any dry food into his bowl. They pour delicious bits of cooked chicken, turkey, sausage, frankfurter etc into his bowl, because kids approaching his bowl has to become EXTRA fantastic.
Within a few days you should find that your new pup is positively writing invitations to you to approach him whilst he eats, and almost dragging kids to his food bowl.
Doing it the other way creates resentment. protectiveness, aggression, problems.
Log onto the very best pre-puppy-owning website, www.dogstardaily.com, as it has two books available on it for free download ("Before You Get Your Puppy", and "After You Get Your Puppy"), as well as buckets of other excellent advice for puppy owners. It will, hopefully, make you think differently about how to go about teaching your pup so that you don't inadvertently create problems and conflict, as well as great advice about housetraining, settling puppy in, how to make sure the puppy was brought up properly by the breeder (remembering that you're left stuck with tbeir mistakes, not them) and plenty more. Good luck!

Hooked

Just a bit more food for thought (if you'll pardon the pun OP). Like you intend, we feed kibble in the morning and raw at 2pm (my lunch hour).

For the money, we find Markus Mühle Naturnah a great dry feed. We buy online from zooplus. Two 15kg bags cost is around 75euro delivered.

You feed less and as it's only one of the two daily feeds, you'll find it goes a long way.

Just thought I'd add it to your list for researching...

http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0341/markus-muehle-naturnah

ene

i have never heard of that one! i will look into it!

its really hard to make a choice! sometimes i wish there was just one brand so i don't have to make any decisions!

what treats do you use for training?

spatchco

am following this ,and would like to ask a question i adopted a cross terrier last week and though i was doing the right thing he is 3-4 months old and i started feeding him james wellbeloved i though the best, like all pups he wolfs it up but some times he throws up so on asking in the pet stores they told me that the food i am feeding him is far to rich and that i should feed him a very basis food ? which can be any food

Nody

spatchco wrote: »

am following this ,and would like to ask a question i adopted a cross terrier last week and though i was doing the right thing he is 3-4 months old and i started feeding him james wellbeloved i though the best, like all pups he wolfs it up but some times he throws up so on asking in the pet stores they told me that the food i am feeding him is far to rich and that i should feed him a very basis food ? which can be any food

Mistake number one; asking the pet store... The most likely reason he's throwing up is because he's eating to fast. There's multiple ways to slow him down from placing a tennis ball in the middle of the bowl to specific slow eating bowls or even artificial grass or feeding through toys like Kong wobbler which will only give him a few kibble at the time. This will also force him to work for his food and use his brain (both are a good thing to keep a healthy dog). Depending on breed you may also want to consider raising up the bowl from the ground (more applicable for larger breeds than smaller once).

tk123

spatchco wrote: »

am following this ,and would like to ask a question i adopted a cross terrier last week and though i was doing the right thing he is 3-4 months old and i started feeding him james wellbeloved i though the best, like all pups he wolfs it up but some times he throws up so on asking in the pet stores they told me that the food i am feeding him is far to rich and that i should feed him a very basis food ? which can be any food

It sounds like you just need to slow him down with a food dispensing toy like a kong wobbler or buster cube or go-slow/anti-gulp bowl (i used one of these for my dog when she was a pup and it did the trick). You could even try putting a ball in his bowl so he has to eat around it or a smaller upturned bowl.

spatchco

so it may not be that the food is to rich for him,i only give him a quarter of the suggested amount at a time which looks to my eyes as very small and i forgot to mention that he is a cross terrier and looks tiny but thanks for the advice will take it in

DBB

Don't mind one whit about them saying the food's too rich! James Wellbeloved is one of the nicest, most nutritious brands on the market. By any chance did the pet shop offer you an own-brand option instead?
It's pretty common for dogs, and especially smaller dogs, to yak up their just-eaten dinner due to eating too fast, or jumping about after eating, or climbing down stairs. I had a westie who did it regularly, he used to tuck into it and eat the lot again! But once I copped it was always after climbing down stairs after dinner, and stopped it, he didn't puke again.

Hooked

ene wrote: »

i have never heard of that one! i will look into it!

its really hard to make a choice! sometimes i wish there was just one brand so i don't have to make any decisions!

what treats do you use for training?

Treats? What are they? Ha ha!

We actually use the Markus Mühle kibble for training and treats. My two are very food driven. They love that stuff. That and carrots. Yes, carrots!

On a rare occasion, I'd use a frankfurter (Aldi) chopped up for treats. Or some leftover bacon, chicken etc... But that's rare enough. I'm pretty religious with their weight and feeding.

ene

ok i will definitely look into that food! its so tough trying to choose the best thing for the puppy!

i don't want to get sucked into the most expensive or well advertised food!

Sobko

I would be wary of raised food bowls for larger breeds. There is lots of studies which show it can contribute to bloat. Unfortunately as I don't have enough posts I cannot post links. (Seems rather strange).

ene

ok really confused now! the only thing i know for sure is i will be swapping from the royal canin once pup is settled.

i am based in uk so prices are a bit different

tk123

ene wrote: »

ok really confused now! the only thing i know for sure is i will be swapping from the royal canin once pup is settled.

i am based in uk so prices are a bit different

There's a good group on FB called Barf Diet Chat - you'll be able to get info on local suppliers there. Just be prepared for criticism on feeding the kibble meal and don't let it get to you - some people are a little bit more into raw feeding than others and think their way is the only way to do things!

Just to confuse you more :pac: I'd recommend wet foot too. I used Rocco Junior when my dog was a pup to bulk out the raw meals - she was a bottomless pit and still is!

I use raised bowls for one of mine (you can't buy the ones I have any more and I haven't found a different make that I like for the other dog ) and haven't had any issues or reason to change from them. Raised bowls are just one factor that could attribute to bloat. Cereal based foods are claimed to be another..

DforDisaster

DBB wrote: »

Don't mind one whit about them saying the food's too rich! James Wellbeloved is one of the nicest, most nutritious brands on the market. By any chance did the pet shop offer you an own-brand option instead?
It's pretty common for dogs, and especially smaller dogs, to yak up their just-eaten dinner due to eating too fast, or jumping about after eating, or climbing down stairs. I had a westie who did it regularly, he used to tuck into it and eat the lot again! But once I copped it was always after climbing down stairs after dinner, and stopped it, he didn't puke again.

I had considered other brands like Taste of the Wild, but JWB is the one out of my top 3 that I have best access to. Several bricks and mortar shops nearby and dogfooddirect (who can deliver in the evening - which I would need if I was eventually going to order the giant sacks).

My only worry is that their puppy/junior range all contain rice - I'm assuming that if he likes it, his poos are manageable, he isn't too gassy, his growth/skin/fur looks healthy and he isn't itchy, then the rice isn't too much of an issue?

ene

ik what do you think of this

38% Freshly Prepared Meat: Chicken 31% (including Chicken Meat 24%, Chicken Liver 7%), Sweet Potatoes, Freshly Prepared Salmon (7%), Pea Protein, Potato Protein, Lentils, Peas, Eggs, Chicken Fat, Chicken Gravy, Flaxseed, Clear Salmon Oil, Apples, Carrots, Spinach, Dried Cranberries, Botanical Herbs (Alfalfa, Golden Rod, Cleavers, Dandelioin Root, Nettles, Celery Seed, Rosehips, Marigold Petals, Burdock Root, Milk Thistle), Chelated Vitamins and Minerals.

Crude Protein: 27.0%

Crude Fats and Oils: 14.5%

Crude Fibres: 3.0%

Crude Ash: 6.0%

Omega 6: 2.0%

Omega 3: 1.5%

Calcium: 1.2%

Phosphorus: 0.91%

Calories 363 kCal/100g

its expensive though- works out at 7.50 POUND a kg

Nody

ene wrote: »

ik what do you think of this
its expensive though- works out at 7.50 POUND a kg

Greatly overpriced would be my initial thought; the likes of Orijen Adult for example:

Fresh chicken (boneless) (22%), dried chicken meat (15%), fresh chicken liver (4%), fresh whole herring (4%), fresh turkey meat (boneless) (4%), dehydrated turkey meat (4%) fresh turkey liver (3%), fresh whole eggs (3%), fresh boneless free Zander (3%), fresh whole salmon (3%), fresh poultry hearts (3%), chicken cartilage (3%), dried herring (3%), dried salmon (3%), poultry liver oil (3%), red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-ripened alfalfa, yam, pea fibre, chick peas, pumpkin, butternut squash, spinach leaves, carrots, red delicious apples, Bartlett pears, cranberries, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fennel, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary.

Additives:
Vitamin A (15,000 IU/kg), vitamin D3 (2000 IU/kg), iron (40 mg/kg), iodine (3 mg/kg), copper (13 mg/kg), manganese (14 mg/kg), zinc (150 mg/kg), selenium (0.3 mg/kg).

Orijen dog food contains no artificial preservatives, just natural vitamin E.

Calories per kg:
3.98 kcal, incl. 38% protein, 21% fruit & vegetables, 41% fat.

comes in at less than £5 per kg and Taste of the Wild is even cheaper.

ene

is there any great difference between taste of the wild and orijin?

Orijen Puppy Food
Whole Prey Orijen Puppy Food with Poultry & Herring is biologically appropriate diet for puppies and growing dogs. Canadian food with high protein-content, plenty of fresh meat, no cereals.
Delivery in 2-3 working days More

- 2.27kg RRP* £20.49
Our Price £17.90
( £7.89 / kg)

Taste of the Wild - High Prairie Puppy
Grain-free dry food for young dogs, this kibble is made with bison, lamb and venison as the only sources of animal protein. Rich in salmon oil, antioxidants and prebiotics for a healthy development.
Delivery in 2-3 working days More

- 2.27kg RRP* £15.80
Our Price £9.99
( £4.40 / kg)

so taste of the wild would be nearly half the price...

Nody

ene wrote: »

is there any great difference between taste of the wild and orijin?

so taste of the wild would be nearly half the price...

Not really; slightly different what goes in etc. but no major differences.

ene

ok then taste of the wild it is then!

Gael23

I know this thread is a few weeks old but its a topic I'm interested in and just wanted to make a few points.
I think for someone with one Dog, the 15kg bags you get from Zooplus are just too big because most of them have a 3 month shelf life once opened and theres no way you would get through it all in that time.
We'll be looking for a similar puppy to the OP all going well in the near future. We lost a cocker a month ago ( changed my username but regular posters will know me) so when the time is right we'll be getting another.
Some foods mentioned here like Orijen and TOTW would be much more than we could afford, Burns or Lukullus would be about the limit for us in that respect. We fed our last guy Pedigree and he lived for 15 years but if we can source smaller than 15kg bags of a better but budget conscious food then thats what we'll do.

tk123

Would you get away with bigger bags while you have a pup eating huge amounts of food? I might be wrong think it's just the cold pressed foods that have the shorter shelf life so you could maybe avoid those types and go for a "normal" kibble which I think has a 6 month shelf life? Also do you care if it's cereal free or not because that will dictate the price you pay too. Maybe post how much you want budget each month (don't be shy ) as a guide price and it'll be a bit easier to make suggestions. I found myself when I fed cereal free kibble that I could chop and change without any major problems so used to just get whatever was on offer.

Gael23

I know the best foods are cereal free but the cost is just out of reach for us. We would like to keep the cost per day around the same as pedigree. I know with better food you give less though so a bag would last longer.
One I was looking at was Gain Elite which seems Middle of the road quality wise. It does have a very high protein content and higher feeding amounts than your Burns/JWB but people here say it's an ok food. Also it comes in 8kg bags. Apparently Burns 15kg goes off 3 months after opening