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Bandit stories

1246

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    lads how are we posting so much over last few days ?
    I'm just bored and no real golf on or to look forward to.


    A little side story about US.
    I had a friend in states - played with him for 3 months - he never once beat me in about 30 games - I was off 12 (Irish) and was off 15 (US) over there. I didn't understand how he was not giving me a good game. Didn't know much about handicaps at the time. Still don't :D

    Lost touch for about 5 years.

    Got onto him on facebook and he is now a pro at a golf club :eek:
    My best score was a 76 at the time - he said to me so was his as a pro :D:D

    America is great - you can be anything you want. With enough will power.
    You have to be 15 over over 2 rounds on the same course to pass what is called a PAT (Playing Ability Test). Fair play to him.

    Willpower, grossly inflated self belief and a brass neck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    First Up wrote: »
    Willpower, grossly inflated self belief and a brass neck.


    I'm going to US so :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    The American stuff is the opposite of banditry - ego and self delusion.
    A few years ago I took part in a corporate event at Lahinch with mostly US guests who all looked like pros when they got off the bus. Best of gear and mannerisms that would not be out of place at a major.
    It was a typical Lahinch day - maybe a bit worse than that but nothing really bad.
    The day was a disaster. Several quit because they had either run out of Pro Vi's or had been humiliated. Some of these boasted of playing Pebble, Doral, Augusta, St Andrews and others.
    I checked later and the highest handicap claimed was 15.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    In fairness - I've played with stunning American golfers. I guess we are talking about the handicap system but.

    Played with a lad in Royal County Down - 72 just off a plane exhausted.

    But then I've played with lads of 12 - 13 - taking about fades and draws , mad stuff. The amount they know about equipment is fascinating.

    And the amount they talk to the ball.

    Hit the bleeding ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    In fairness - I've played with stunning American golfers. I guess we are talking about the handicap system but.

    Played with a lad in Royal County Down - 72 just off a plane exhausted.

    But then I've played with lads of 12 - 13 - taking about fades and draws , mad stuff. The amount they know about equipment is fascinating.

    And the amount they talk to the ball.

    Hit the bleeding ball.

    The good ones don't need the hype or the trappings. They just hit the ball very well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    First Up wrote: »
    The good ones don't need the hype or the trappings. They just hit the ball very well.

    Well it is typical of most very good golfers - but the good Americans I played with, were very quiet, modest, hardly spoke.
    Gents - but sort of in the zone and no craic to be honest.

    Anyway - any bandit stories.

    I often wonder what motivates a real bandit.

    This is not going to go down well - but is it tolerated more in different places or types of clubs ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭cairny


    Well it is typical of most very good golfers - but the good Americans I played with, were very quiet, modest, hardly spoke.
    Gents - but sort of in the zone and no craic to be honest.

    Anyway - any bandit stories.

    I often wonder what motivates a real bandit.

    This is not going to go down well - but is it tolerated more in different places or types of clubs ?

    Had a freaky round yesterday, 5 birdies in 1st 8 holes. Finished under par for first time ever (I know I know winter rules so doesn't count but still) , 36 points for 14 holes off 9....met comp sec on way out....tells me I'm lying second...ffs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    cairny wrote: »
    Had a freaky round yesterday, 5 birdies in 1st 8 holes. Finished under par for first time ever (I know I know winter rules so doesn't count but still) , 36 points for 14 holes off 9....met comp sec on way out....tells me I'm lying second...ffs.

    Amazing golf .
    You could be pro in US

    no well done.

    that is sick you didn't win.

    I'd sort that lad out quick.

    you too. But the greater good and all that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    cairny wrote: »
    Had a freaky round yesterday, 5 birdies in 1st 8 holes. Finished under par for first time ever (I know I know winter rules so doesn't count but still) , 36 points for 14 holes off 9....met comp sec on way out....tells me I'm lying second...ffs.

    I'm sure the guy in third thinks the exact same about you.
    Are you a bandit?

    Why can you have a freaky day but none of the other 120 odd people cant without being a bandit?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭cairny


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I'm sure the guy in third thinks the exact same about you.
    Are you a bandit?

    Why can you have a freaky day but none of the other 120 odd people cant without being a bandit?

    Ah I know I'm not cross at all, it feels a bit like winning the lotto and finding out that someone else had the numbers too.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭cgh


    I played with a Bandit yesterday.....

    he kept calling me gringo all through the round....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭DiegoWorst


    Russman wrote: »
    This ^^^^, a thousand times this !!!

    The reality is that out of a field of 120 players, chances are someone is going to play well above themselves. It's not nearly as sinister as people like to think.

    No its not as sinister. There are a small number of golfers who do hold hugely inflated handicaps for team events, and inter-club teams. There is absolutely no denying this!

    What is more common, in my experience is guys picking a number and saying to themselves "this is the handicap at which I am comfortable". If they achieve a cut in handicap, it doesn't take them long for the handicap to get back to that number. I think this is very common, which is why you see a lot of guys finishing the year on the same handicap, despite winning a major prize or two.

    Another factor is the stableford scoring system. A lot of golfers have a fear of losing their precious shot on a particular hole.

    I don't believe the CONGU handicap system is inadequate, ok, its not perfect. The way in which competitions are structured, and how prizes are allotted is more of a driving force behind handicap manipulation IMHO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    DiegoWorst wrote: »
    What is more common, in my experience is guys picking a number and saying to themselves "this is the handicap at which I am comfortable". If they achieve a cut in handicap, it doesn't take them long for the handicap to get back to that number. I think this is very common, which is why you see a lot of guys finishing the year on the same handicap, despite winning a major prize or two.

    This is how it's supposed to work!
    you play 20 qualifying events a year, you are going to have one or two of those days and win. You get cut but can't play to your new handicap so creep back to for the rest of the year.

    Why do you think this is the mark of a bandit?
    just because you have a good score didn't mean your ability has suddenly increased.

    Again, a basic lack of understanding regarding congu is leading people to see bandits when it's actually perfectly normal, expected behavior.

    Only person wins each event, just because it's not you and they have 40+ points doesn't make the winner a bandit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭DiegoWorst


    GreeBo wrote: »
    This is how it's supposed to work!
    you play 20 qualifying events a year, you are going to have one or two of those days and win. You get cut but can't play to your new handicap so creep back to for the rest of the year.

    Why do you think this is the mark of a bandit?
    just because you have a good score didn't mean your ability has suddenly increased.

    Again, a basic lack of understanding regarding congu is leading people to see bandits when it's actually perfectly normal, expected behavior.

    Only person wins each event, just because it's not you and they have 40+ points doesn't make the winner a bandit.

    There's a difference between "creeping out" and intentionally gaining .1s to get back to comfort-land.
    My observation is not made by looking at winning scores, its by listening to what's been said by fellow golfers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    DiegoWorst wrote: »
    There's a difference between "creeping out" and intentionally gaining .1s to get back to comfort-land.
    My observation is not made by looking at winning scores, its by listening to what's been said by fellow golfers.

    I think the bandits we were talking about originally are those who carry an inflated handicap from some distance membership and use it for team events and so never get cut.

    There have been stories of members fiddling their scores for handicap purposes (including one notorious case where a club employee was sacked and the member expelled) but they are pretty rare. The .6 or .8 cut followed by the "creep out" is normal stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Dr.Rieux


    DiegoWorst wrote: »
    There's a difference between "creeping out" and intentionally gaining .1s to get back to comfort-land.
    My observation is not made by looking at winning scores, its by listening to what's been said by fellow golfers.

    I would think a lot of what is being said is ego, a lot more difficult to admit that you can't play to your new handicap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    Bandits are not the guys that have 45 points in a regular weekend stableford these are the genunine golfers that are having their day in the sun.
    Go out play your best and see what happens.
    Guys that score 35/36 point s every week are on too high a handicap you should have that every 3rd or 4th round.
    That is why you get deducted .2,.3 or .4 if you are you beat CSS by 1 or 2 shots on you good day then next 10 rounds you miss 5/6 buffers and get some .1's back that is what your average handicapp golfer looks like.

    You will get improvers that have 40 plus points close together but i think the handicap system catches up with them. if they have put in extra effort them fair play to them if they pick up a couple of prizes on the way down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Bandits you say...the 11 hole comp in Grange Castle at the weekend was won with a score of 36 points...yep, you got that right, 36 points for 11 holes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kieran.


    Bandits you say...the 11 hole comp in Grange Castle at the weekend was won with a score of 36 points...yep, you got that right, 36 points for 11 holes

    Pro rata that would have been 59pts for 18 holes. Even playing off 18 he would need to have been 4 under gross for his round . He must have been scorched alive 'for his day in the sun' :cool::cool::cool:.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭cgh


    that or he badly needed to win a turkey


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭DiegoWorst


    Bandits you say...the 11 hole comp in Grange Castle at the weekend was won with a score of 36 points...yep, you got that right, 36 points for 11 holes

    I was going to suggest that perhaps "36pts" was a misprint for "26pts", but then I saw second prize was won with 32pts.

    I'm now thinking "11 hole competition" is a misprint for "17 hole competition"????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Shortened course with placing, its not unheard of.

    I had 32 points for 12 holes last week, and missed a good few putts.


    ProRata means nothing on a golf course.
    "Pro Rata" I've been 18 under.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kieran.


    GreeBo wrote: »
    ProRata means nothing on a golf course.



    Of course this is true I was simply highlighting the extreme nature of the score. Placing or not 36 points for 11 holes is an extreme score. Congrats on your 32 points for 12 holes :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    That score is a disgrace.
    I'd love to be handicap sec there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 677 ✭✭✭phkk


    We still have 18hole stableford competitions this time of year(which is a bug bear of mine). 20handicapper had 51 pts couple of weeks ago.gross 5over...mmmmmmmmmm??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    I know a guy whose GUI handicap is 21 or 22. In our local society his handicap was cut to 14 because he was winning so many of them. Played during the year and he came in with 40 points off 14 hanicap.

    Not being specific and just using above post as an example,however there are a lot of posters who state 'i know this bloke....'
    My answer is 'if you know these blokes...why don't you pull them, or report them'. Its like the ones who see the crime but wont report it to the garda because they don't want to be a grass, don't want to go to court, don't want to be identified etc etc.
    If you know the bandits and do nothing you're colluding with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    Not being specific and just using above post as an example,however there are a lot of posters who state 'i know this bloke....'
    My answer is 'if you know these blokes...why don't you pull them, or report them'. Its like the ones who see the crime but wont report it to the garda because they don't want to be a grass, don't want to go to court, don't want to be identified etc etc.
    If you know the bandits and do nothing you're colluding with them.

    Because an individual player is powerless to do anything. Not to be offhand, but what can he say ? "Mr handicap sec, Joe over there is much better than his handicap, he needs to be cut...." ?
    Players reporting other players would lead to anarchy - personal differences & grudges being settled etc etc.

    Tbh winter golf with placing and forward tees is so far removed from the real thing as to be almost a different sport. Scores everywhere shoot up with placing. That's why lots of clubs have domestic or winter handicaps, where you lose 2 or 3 shots for a win, a shot for a second place etc., until the season kicks off again in April. Most single figure players would frequently enough shoot under or level par for 12 hole comps in the winter, it's the placing.

    In saying that, 51pts is a bit much, but he's not a very good bandit if the extent of his ambitions is a winter singles comp. I haven't a clue who he is or where he plays but I'd say chances are he's a high handicapper, no doubt carrying a few shots, who just had a crazy day. Why would a real bandit draw attention to themselves with a score like that ?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    51 points off 20, what a ****ing joke, yeah forward tees, yeah placing, but you still have to keep the ball on the course, manage hazards and putt

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    Public Profile active ads for slave1



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    slave1 wrote: »
    51 points off 20, what a ****ing joke, yeah forward tees, yeah placing, but you still have to keep the ball on the course, manage hazards and putt

    Scores like this would suggest placing in rough has to stop. Pick, clean and drop in rough would seem more reasonable.

    I say this as someone who benefits but knows its not doing me any good.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    slave1 wrote: »
    51 points off 20, what a ****ing joke, yeah forward tees, yeah placing, but you still have to keep the ball on the course, manage hazards and putt

    Is funny he targeted a non event. I was shocked at first then laughed out loud at that score.

    I guess a turkey is important for the missus. :(:mad::P:D

    He would be off 9 overnight with me if that was qualifying.
    OK in summer conditions, he may have got 46 /47.

    I'd have him at 14 then. Again i'm not giving him the full cut I want to.

    Why people think you are entitled to a few prizes on way down is just not in my thinking, that is not the way the handicap system was ever meant to be.

    You have to think that every golfer should have a chance every time we all start a competition. I want the number of guys out there carrying shots to be in a reasonable distribution. we have had lads on here tel us and actually admit they are carrying shots - it has now almost become an Irish cultural sort of - " I do be needing to be competitive"

    I'll have you competitive - once and then you can still win , but we can all catch you now buddy.

    I want that guy to stay competitive - but next time I play him , could be in an open I have the round of my life, I'll have a "chance" of catching him.

    I don't like golf - if I have the round of my life - lose because a guy is carrying shots - I'd rather no handicap system if that is the game we are at.

    "Ahhh sure he is be deserving a few prizes" --- **** off. I want to play the lad in a game of golf. I want to beat him. I don't want to be up against a lad who has a 43 in him after a 48. I've driven from Dublin to west cork or whatever to take on everyone.

    The game would be far more fun. Bandits would be brought back to field - or have one win in them.

    My argument is your best round is important indicator of your ability. I'm not suggesting we adjust that individual to an area they can't win - they are going to an area we can all win.

    I'd even let lads have 41s if 40 was too harsh.


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