Employees and sick days

westcoast66

Just looking for some advice here. I have 4 employees and more and more recently I have found coming into work that at least one of them is sick on any given day. Is this normal? Is this a culture thing? Its really starting to affect the business as projects are being delayed, delivered late etc I dont think there is a problem with the work environment as we all seem to get on fine. Any hints on what to do here? I haven't taken a sick day myself in 5 years!

Bandara

Do you pay sick pay?

seamus

Just recently? It's winter, colds are more prevalent. If you're working in relatively close quarters, then these things will spread around and you'll experience 4-6 weeks where there always seems to be someone out sick.

My last position was in a team of five and it always happened that once one person was sick, the rest of us would fall like dominos over the following weeks.

Do you have any scope for allowing people to work from home? Even when I'm too sick to make the trip into work I usually don't have much problem working from home.

L.Jenkins

As Seamus said, offering a concession to work from home may offset the lost time and project delays.

Larbre34

You need to look at this from both sides. Are the sick patterns Mondays and Fridays? Do they show symptoms on days beforehand in work etc?

Also, might people be working a lot of long hours and more prone to genuine illness? Is the office environment problematic, stuffy, hot, cold, dusty, recycled air?

Take all these things into account and agree a sick leave scheme, perhaps 4 days allowed over a rolling two year period, otherwise medical certs etc. Also look at stress management and work/life balance promotions, you can get a lot of benefit for quite little money if the staff see it as an altruistic gesture.

Bit of a joke to be out of work due to a cold.
It seems to me your staff are taking the p1ss. Are they getting paid and just missing a day or two where a doctors note isn't required?

Unmotivated, unskilled folk generally take more sick days than qualified, driven people, especially if they are getting paid for them.

Not a popular view but there you go.

Bandara

Augeo wrote: »

Bit of a joke to be out of work due to a cold.
It seems to me your staff are taking the p1ss. Are they getting paid and just missing a day or two where a doctors note isn't required?

Unmotivated, unskilled folk generally take more sick days than qualified, driven people, especially if they are getting paid for them.

Not a popular view but there you go.

agree 100%

syklops

Augeo wrote: »

Bit of a joke to be out of work due to a cold.
It seems to me your staff are taking the p1ss. Are they getting paid and just missing a day or two where a doctors note isn't required?

Unmotivated, unskilled folk generally take more sick days than qualified, driven people, especially if they are getting paid for them.

Not a popular view but there you go.

And then everyone else in the office gets it as well, so instead of 1 guy being out of action for a day or two, your entire workforce is working at 50% efficiency because their sick.

westcoast66

Bandara wrote: »

Do you pay sick pay?

They still get paid when they are sick. They never seem to be sick for more than two days in a row, so I'm not sure about the legalities of docking their pay.

pedronomix

should be clearly stated in contract of employment!

3DataModem

westcoast66 wrote: »

Just looking for some advice here. I have 4 employees and more and more recently I have found coming into work that at least one of them is sick on any given day. Is this normal? Is this a culture thing? Its really starting to affect the business as projects are being delayed, delivered late etc I dont think there is a problem with the work environment as we all seem to get on fine. Any hints on what to do here? I haven't taken a sick day myself in 5 years!

You can sack people for excessive sick days, even if certified.

Eg after 3 absences in 6 months you could give a first formal written warning. Then a second warning if repeated, then dismissal if repeated.

Despite what many people seem to think, the law allows you to do this.

chrysagon

Certain organisations/businesses have excesive sick leave as their sick policy promotes excessive abscences

syklops

syklops wrote: »

And then everyone else in the office gets it as well, so instead of 1 guy being out of action for a day or two, your entire workforce is working at 50% efficiency because their sick.

Complete spoof, by the time you are ill with a cold you're after potentially infecting others. We all get colds, most don't stay at home due to them. Some Uniflu etc and get on with it unless it's very bad.

westcoast66 wrote: »

They still get paid when they are sick. They never seem to be sick for more than two days in a row, so I'm not sure about the legalities of docking their pay.

No doctor visit so, they are a pack of wasters imo, at best they are taking advantage.

I'm sure the OP has worked through a head cold, like 90% of us. If you missed work due to a head cold you should be out for more than 2 days, the coughing, sneezing etc lasts more than a day or two.

syklops

Augeo wrote: »

No doctor visit so, they are a pack of wasters imo, at best they are taking advantage.
.

A bit harsh surely.

Bigcheeze

westcoast66 wrote: »

They still get paid when they are sick. They never seem to be sick for more than two days in a row, so I'm not sure about the legalities of docking their pay.

You don't have to pay any but the policy should be clear in the employee handbook.

Practical things you can do are:

Pay the first X days sick leave every year and have them unpaid after that (e.g. 5 days). Downside is some will see the 5 days as a target.

Proactively enquire about health issues if someone regularly takes sick days. You're making it clear it has been noticed.

Require a doctors cert for any sick day taken.

Introduce an incentive for any employee who has zero sick days during the year

Include sick leave records as part of the annual review increase/ bonus process.

swht

Have you tried explaining your concerns to them. Like you say it's a small team and if like you say everyone gets on, they might take it on board.

Highflyer13

There must be a reason why absenteeism is so high. Maybe they don't like the work, a stressful working environment, bad management or they could be taking advantage. Review the work environment anyway.

Graham

Change the company policy such that all sick leave should be certified.

Ask employees to claim illness benefit for sick days and if you have already paid the employee, ask them to assign any payments to the company.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

I'd start by having a chat with the employees and make it clear to them that the company is not in a position to continue to support the current levels of sick pay. Tot up the number of sick days each employee has taken, invite each employee individually for a chat and ask them are there any problems. Is there a reason for the ongoing absences. Let them know that their attendance is becoming an issue and that you'd rather address it informally at this point rather than launching straight into the disciplinary route.

syklops

Require a doctors cert for any sick day taken.

Can I suggest against this particular idea. Anywhere I worked where they had this particular requirement it just created hassle for the employees when they were genuinely sick. There was never a guarantee you could get a doctors appointment on the day you were sick, so what did you do then? In some cases I had to take time off work to go to the doctor to get a note for the previous day when I was sick. An element of trust needs to come into it at somepoint. Considering you trust them to

Tell the employees you've noticed the increase in sick days - Yes.
Enquire individually do they have any idea why it is happening, as in environmental conditions, too warm, too cold etc. I understand you work in an IT company so are they out on customer premises a lot and so picking up germs from elsewhere?
I quite like the idea of the incentive for no sick days in the year, just make sure you follow through with it.

Mrs OBumble

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Require a doctors cert for any sick day taken.

The risk with this option is that the doctor is likely to certify people out for the average time it takes to fully recover, rather than just the time the person is too sick to work. So they end up out for longer.

Personally, I'd start with limiting the total paid sick days, and more active management of illness: Calculate the rate with all employees and cover it at their performance review - remember that sickness (ever certified illness) explains but does not excuse absence from work. It's unreasonable for an employer to expect human beings to be 100% healthy, but on the other hand if you have employees who have a lot of health issues you may need to look at their suitability for the job.

seamus

Augeo wrote: »

Bit of a joke to be out of work due to a cold.

Depends on the individual, the specific virus they've contracted and the type of work. The physical state of the individual plays into it too; if they're working long hours, for example, or have a child at home who isn't sleeping, then a cold can completely wipe you out for a day.
I've had colds where it was nothing more than a bit of a sniffle and a cough, but the last one I had left me sitting on the couch miserable for a day because I was already exhausted before I got it.

Unmotivated, unskilled folk generally take more sick days than qualified, driven people, especially if they are getting paid for them.

You're probably right. But it's the boss's responsibility to ensure that the people he has hired have the skills to do the work and keep the work challenging and interesting enough to motivate them.

If they're taking sick days because they're unmotivated, then their boss has to take some responsibility for his failure to motivate them and provide a challenging work environment.

Requiring a doctor's cert for a single day's absence is taking the piss. You'll get a reputation for being an overbearing and unreasonable employer. Likewise, a written warning for taking 3 sick days in 6 months? Again, insanely unreasonable. People get sick, and they have no control over when this happens.

You are better off without these staff in the office; a person with a cold is infectious the entire time they show symptoms. If you work in close quarters all the time, you're pretty much guaranteed that once a cold gets into the office, practically everyone will get.

Rather than worry about putting in procedures and disciplinary actions for inherently unpredictable things, do the simple stuff first - tracking. Make a note of who is out sick and when, and look for patterns; i.e. people who seem to take a certain number of days every month, or certain times of the week, or just seem to take a lot of sick days in general.

Then you can establish if there is actually piss-taking going on or if someone has a health issue, or if it's just random illness.

delahuntv

westcoast66 wrote: »

They still get paid when they are sick. They never seem to be sick for more than two days in a row, so I'm not sure about the legalities of docking their pay.

Crazy paying for days off sick. People should only get paid for working.

I have never paid sick pay in my life - however in genuine cases and where the staff member is long time staff member, I will pay them, but they must make up the time within 6 months.

I have 43 staff and the number of sick days is miniscule.

Cianos

Are you sure they're out as much as you think they are?

You said that between 4 staff members one of them is out on any given day.

If a working year is 250 days, that averages to around 80 sick days a year each which is crazy.

Atomico

westcoast66 wrote: »

They still get paid when they are sick. They never seem to be sick for more than two days in a row, so I'm not sure about the legalities of docking their pay.

Are you too soft / are they possibly taking advantage of you? If they really are out a lot, then they could be taking a cheeky day off (hungover / want to go shopping instead...), knowing that they will get paid for it. Taking two days off in a row is a bit more serious and more like you are 'actually' sick. If it's just the one day maybe they see it as no big deal (wrongly of course).

Also, how sick can you be if you only need one day off? Fair enough if the odd person has a very occasional day off due to a dodgy stomach or something, but if it's a regular thing then I'd be suspicious.

As mentioned, if it's a cold then the employee can just work at home.

Mrs OBumble

Cianos wrote: »

Are you sure they're out as much as you think they are?

You said that between 4 staff members one of them is out on any given day.

If a working year is 250 days, that averages to around 80 sick days a year each which is crazy.

I wonder if s/he's mixing up sick leave and annual leave in his head.

With 4 staff, that's 16 weeks per year when someone will be on annual leave.

If you have one who's spreading parental leave one day per week for ages, one who's part time anyway etc, it can all add up pretty quickly.


NB re not paying sick leave: sounds good - until you realise that with Illness Benefit not covering the first six days now, an employee who gets genuinely sick can have no income at all for a week. They may not be able to articulate it like this, but at some level most would expect to see some kind of loading on the pay to cover the risks associated with that.

spinga

I had a retail operation with 15 staff , 2011 there were 63 sick days taken ( I was paying the staff)
In 2012 I implemented a no sick pay policy , told them they would have to claim from social as I couldnt afford it anymore..
2012 they had 13 sick days between all the staff , problem solved..