Pre-heaters. A useful option? Any experience

two wheels good

Sump pre-heaters for engine oil (and I suppose gearbox oil) are installed in vehicles in some parts of USA for the very cold winters to overcome problems with oil viscosity.

These cold morning I often wonder why pre-heaters aren't an optional extra even in our more temperate European winters. I'm thinking of a 230V heater operating from household elec supply rather than a 12V heater draining the car battery.
Then put another heater in the coolant fluid. It would surely be of great benefit getting the engine to optimum temperature. (Yes, I know - private parking and an elec. socket required)

A pre-heater for the passenger cell would be useful too. Some time ago I read how Saab or Volvo were developing a chemical based heat storage system that would release the heat on start-up.
But a 230V heater warming the cabin and clearing the windows. Useful for an electric vehicle too on a winter's morning.

Henry Ford III

They aren't needed here as the temperatures don't go down too low.

kirving

By and large, the temperature here varies between 0-20 degrees, not enough of a range to justify an external heater. Most cars are up to temperature within 5 minutes.

I know that Volvo offer a fuel driven engine block heater in the likes of Sweden.

Mikko Mallikas

http://www.webasto.com/int/markets-products/car/
and
http://www.calix.se/en/start

ironclaw

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They aren't needed here as the temperatures don't go down too low.

This. You are no where near cold enough in Ireland for long enough to warrant the use of one. A remote start kit would be a far better investment in my opinion if this type of thing worries you. At least you can have the car warm when you sit in.

Technoprisoner

would something like this not be a better option

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Freeze-Plug-Core-Plug-Block-Heaters/752718/10002/-1

neilthefunkeone

Lived in whistler, Canada for a year and we didnt need one in our old van.. and that was in a ski resort up a mountain.. think you will be fine in Ireland!

keithclancy

two wheels good wrote: »

Sump pre-heaters for engine oil (and I suppose gearbox oil) are installed in vehicles in some parts of USA for the very cold winters to overcome problems with oil viscosity.

These cold morning I often wonder why pre-heaters aren't an optional extra even in our more temperate European winters. I'm thinking of a 230V heater operating from household elec supply rather than a 12V heater draining the car battery.
Then put another heater in the coolant fluid. It would surely be of great benefit getting the engine to optimum temperature. (Yes, I know - private parking and an elec. socket required)

A pre-heater for the passenger cell would be useful too. Some time ago I read how Saab or Volvo were developing a chemical based heat storage system that would release the heat on start-up.
But a 230V heater warming the cabin and clearing the windows. Useful for an electric vehicle too on a winter's morning.

Webasto Diesel heaters are pretty common on the continent, no idea why, a few of my neighbors have them.

Think the Rover 75 Diesel model has it as standard.

Plopli

I went to Finland around Easter few years back and the rental had studded wheels and cord to connect it to the main 230V to keep it warm/running.

Never used it as I stayed in the South, near the coast.

They have parking spot with main connection in most public parking there.

And by the way, it was ~ -20C and the sea was frozen solid. You could drive a car on it.

Given I didn't need it there and then, I really don't see the need here in Ireland.

jgorres

Good morning,

two wheels good wrote: »

Sump pre-heaters for engine oil (and I suppose gearbox oil) are installed in vehicles in some parts of USA for the very cold winters to overcome problems with oil viscosity.

These cold morning I often wonder why pre-heaters aren't an optional extra even in our more temperate European winters. I'm thinking of a 230V heater operating from household elec supply rather than a 12V heater draining the car battery.
Then put another heater in the coolant fluid. It would surely be of great benefit getting the engine to optimum temperature. (Yes, I know - private parking and an elec. socket required)

A pre-heater for the passenger cell would be useful too. Some time ago I read how Saab or Volvo were developing a chemical based heat storage system that would release the heat on start-up.
But a 230V heater warming the cabin and clearing the windows. Useful for an electric vehicle too on a winter's morning.

We had one car where we installed a 230V immersion heater heating up the cooling circuit. Another car had a fuel-fired heater for the cooling circuit on a time clock, additionally the fan was started and the car already cosy in the morning.

It is not only additional comfort, if your car is already warmed up (or at least warm air comes out of the fan instantaneously) in the morning. It also decreases tear and wear on the engine. Not talking about road safety aspects if you think about steamed up windscreens.

The costs for the 230V heater are not that high and it is definitely worth to consider that option.

Jörn.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Pre heaters are good if you're running on veg oil... not needed otherwise

keithclancy

jgorres wrote: »

Good morning,



We had one car where we installed a 230V immersion heater heating up the cooling circuit. Another car had a fuel-fired heater for the cooling circuit on a time clock, additionally the fan was started and the car already cosy in the morning.

Jesus ..... would be another "Did you turn off the immersion" worry :pac:

cruizer101

I know a lot of people say no need we don't get cold enough and that is fair enough from a requirement point of view but look at it from a comfort point of view, plenty of things is cars we don't need, electric heated seats, surround sound, climate control but we (or at least some) are happy to fork out on them. So I see no reason why its a bad idea as such. Even on just a chilly morning be nice to come out to a warm defrosted car, and would be good for engine too.

Also OP raised a good point re electric cars, these are already plugged in and should definitely have some sort of heater running of mains so car is warm and doesn't have to waste battery power heating it up, possibly even having some sort of flask of high heat capacity fluid acting like a heat reservoir in the car to further reduce drain on battery.

dr.fuzzenstein

Good point re electric.
Other than that, sure why not. My coldest was Germany at the foot of the alps, -17 for a week and my Kadett started first time every time, even though I had to dig it out every morning. That year the snow had to be moved with diggers and trucks.

Foxhole Norman

cruizer101 wrote: »

Also OP raised a good point re electric cars, these are already plugged in and should definitely have some sort of heater running of mains so car is warm and doesn't have to waste battery power heating it up, possibly even having some sort of flask of high heat capacity fluid acting like a heat reservoir in the car to further reduce drain on battery.

Don't Nissan Leaf's have pre heating and aircon use as standard on them?

two wheels good

I was just in the EV thread reading about the pre-heater options there. An essential accessory for an EV.

I've been searching info on pre-heaters for ICE cars too.

German and Swedish car manufacturers all seem to have heaters as options and there are many after market systems too. Mostly they seem to be auxiliary heaters - different beast to a pre-heater.

Preheaters - fitted to coolant system or fitted to sump to heat engine oil and powered from 230V household supply .
Auxiliary heaters - powered by diesel/petrol. These seem to be common in diesels because they take longer to heat up.
Also some very neat 12V fan heaters to fit in the passenger cabin.

One aftermarket coolant pre-heater seems quite popular in the UK as an after-market fitment and has been around for years. (I've mislaid brand name)

I wasn't thinking only about their use in Ireland. But even here a warm car and frost-free windows would be a happy start to the day.
Better fuel efficiency and less engine wear must be an advantage too. I read some web posts claiming benefits but didn't delve enough to make conclusions.

PS That core-plug heater is nifty!

ironclaw

two wheels good wrote: »

Better fuel efficiency and less engine wear must be an advantage too. I read some web posts claiming benefits but didn't delve enough to make conclusions.

But you still have to pay either for the fuel or electricity to run it, so you pay for it somewhere. In Ireland, I just don't see the cost-benefit.

Cookie_Monster

Keeping the car in a garage is surely a far better option, no cost, no remember to plug in etc? It'll stay pretty much as warm as the house, no need for heater, no frost or dew in the mornings.

95% of houses over here have garages, it makes complete sense (and protect from sun damage and wind / rain). Pity so many people in Ireland chose to convert theirs over the years. Fantastically useful for dumping stuff too

biko

Unless you live in a subzero climate there is no need for that.
Get heated seats instead and/or a car interior preheater

two wheels good

ironclaw wrote: »

But you still have to pay either for the fuel or electricity to run it, so you pay for it somewhere. In Ireland, I just don't see the cost-benefit.

Since when did the justification for automotive spending rely on rational cost-benefit analysis?

But just to put my many concerned advisors at ease.. my post was prompted by idle curiousity.

PS The core plug heater may be nifty - but how on earth could you manage to access a core plug in a modern engine bay!

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

But you still have to pay either for the fuel or electricity to run it, so you pay for it somewhere. In Ireland, I just don't see the cost-benefit.

This logic is strange
Why have heating in your car at all, you could just wear a jacket :pac:

Cleveland Hot Pocket

keithclancy wrote: »

This logic is strange
Why have heating in your car at all, you could just wear a jacket :pac:

That's EV logic :pac: