eVision over VPN

murphaph

Just thinking out loud really about watching TV from home/UK....I'm living in Germany at present I'm using Zattoo and a smart DNS service which allows me access to Zattoo's Swiss streams which contain (quite legally, owing to a quirky law in CH) all the main UK terrestrial channels. I pay for a subscription to Zattoo and use their android app which supports Chromecast to watch TV on the TV and it is pretty damn good and doesn't cost me a lot (65 Francs for the Zattoo and 40 dollars for the smart DNS each year, so about a hundred Euro or so).

It is pretty good, but I would really like a set top box solution to work and there are ones available (Blade boxes mostly) that do this but they are much more expensive, like 300 Euro a year subscription rates.

I have VDSL here as does my brother in Dublin and we both have good speeds. He gets 70/20 and I get 50/10. I was wondering about the practicalities of subscribing to eVision and taking the box to Germany and accessing the streams over VPN (using a couple of Fritzboxes to handle the VPN stuff...if it needs a separate server running on my brother's end it's no deal as he'll invariably mess it up...he's not technical at all). Any thoughts on whether or not this would be possible? Strictly speaking it possibly violates Eircom's T&C's but I suspect they wouldn't care, just as Sky knows it has a couple of million subscribers in Spain and they are happy to turn a blind eye for the revenue.

Maybe it's a non-starter based on how the eVision box actually connects to the Eircom network? Does it connect over LAN to the router and from there on or somehow directly to the DSL like a cable box?

mass_debater

murphaph wrote: »

Just thinking out loud really about watching TV from home/UK....I'm living in Germany at present I'm using Zattoo and a smart DNS service which allows me access to Zattoo's Swiss streams which contain (quite legally, owing to a quirky law in CH) all the main UK terrestrial channels. I pay for a subscription to Zattoo and use their android app which supports Chromecast to watch TV on the TV and it is pretty damn good and doesn't cost me a lot (65 Francs for the Zattoo and 40 dollars for the smart DNS each year, so about a hundred Euro or so).

It is pretty good, but I would really like a set top box solution to work and there are ones available (Blade boxes mostly) that do this but they are much more expensive, like 300 Euro a year subscription rates.

I have VDSL here as does my brother in Dublin and we both have good speeds. He gets 70/20 and I get 50/10. I was wondering about the practicalities of subscribing to eVision and taking the box to Germany and accessing the streams over VPN (using a couple of Fritzboxes to handle the VPN stuff...if it needs a separate server running on my brother's end it's no deal as he'll invariably mess it up...he's not technical at all). Any thoughts on whether or not this would be possible? Strictly speaking it possibly violates Eircom's T&C's but I suspect they wouldn't care, just as Sky knows it has a couple of million subscribers in Spain and they are happy to turn a blind eye for the revenue.

Maybe it's a non-starter based on how the eVision box actually connects to the Eircom network? Does it connect over LAN to the router and from there on or somehow directly to the DSL like a cable box?

Evision would require lots if upload bandwidth (about 15mbit) which is easy for Eircom to deliver locally on their network but very difficult to do over vpn with a limited upload speed.

murphaph

Yeah he has that. He has VDSL running at around 70/20 and he uses it to check gmail and skype with me and that's about it. The upload he has is essentially going to waste and could be used for this. I'm not talking about a paid VPN service nut actually linking two sites over VPN (decent routers like the Fritzbox range even support this directly, so you don't have to run a server all the time...something I'd really like to avoid)

ED E

Can you have tv without the F1000? IIRC you have to use eircom CPE if you opt for evision.

Other than that it should work, it'd mean forwarding all the multicast traffic outwards on the VPN interface, but that should be ok. TCP VPNs have higher overheads but you'd probably want to avoid UDP as the packet loss on an international link like that could nuke performance.

diarmaidol

It's technically against the terms of service from Eircom on this. In fact it's directly read out to you when signing up that you have to use the service at the residential address. But it could be done. I've using the F1000 in Bridge at home with a 3rd party router. Config was needed to get the eVision to work.

The SD channels run in reality about 4ish Mbps.

Maybe the slingbox route taking an actual DVB feed might be a better option.

murphaph

Yeah the thing is with a Slinbgbox it seems I'm limited to software options for the client side, which I already have with Zattoo (cheaper than eVision and only lacking RTE really, BUT with all 4 ITVs, which are crap but still better than RTE) and to be fair their Chromecast support is pretty sweet (phone works as a remote with EPG) so a Slinged Freesat doesn't really offer me much more, if anything (Zattoo has 7 day catch up). The VPN is attractive to me as I would have the actual STB here in Germany, so remote control and "proper" TV feel. I looked at the Slingbox but it seems the Boxee app is no longer available and the Slingcatcher is no longer available so it seems Sling media have consciously moved away from "direct" connected devices for whatever reason.

murphaph

Any source on the "have to use Eircom CPE" ED E? That would be a real shame actually as I'd want to keep it as transparent and simple at my brother's end as possible. He is the type who would unplug a Rasperry Pi for the hoover and forget to plug the Pi back in.

I have read on some German forums about guys having success with openVPN running on 2 raspberry Pis in bridging mode working for Deutsche Telekom's IPTV over VPN and Telekom uses multicast/UDP as well, so that's quite promising. By bridging the two networks are connected as if they were one and all packets can flow across the bridge unhindered. This is key to the whole thing. Trying to route packets has not been successful for anyone that I can find.

Of course, even better that 2 Pis would be native openVPN running onboard both routers. This is possible with my FritzBox if I flash it with Freetz, something I haven't needed to do up to now as AVM's own VPN protocol has been enough for me so far (connecting to home network with phone etc.).

For my brother's end (IF the F100 can be ditched) I could theoretically replace his router with a fairly cheap TP-LINK or something that runs one of the larger DD-WRT builds (openVPN is an add on in DD-WRT, so routers with small flash memory will not be able to support it). To the brother there would be no difference and he could swap the F1000 back in if there are any network problems that require Eircom assistance (they'll obviously not be able to troubleshoot non Eircom CPE stuff).

mass_debater

murphaph wrote: »

Any source on the "have to use Eircom CPE" ED E? That would be a real shame actually as I'd want to keep it as transparent and simple at my brother's end as possible. He is the type who would unplug a Rasperry Pi for the hoover and forget to plug the Pi back in.

I have read on some German forums about guys having success with openVPN running on 2 raspberry Pis in bridging mode working for Deutsche Telekom's IPTV over VPN and Telekom uses multicast/UDP as well, so that's quite promising. By bridging the two networks are connected as if they were one and all packets can flow across the bridge unhindered. This is key to the whole thing. Trying to route packets has not been successful for anyone that I can find.

Of course, even better that 2 Pis would be native openVPN running onboard both routers. This is possible with my FritzBox if I flash it with Freetz, something I haven't needed to do up to now as AVM's own VPN protocol has been enough for me so far (connecting to home network with phone etc.).

For my brother's end (IF the F100 can be ditched) I could theoretically replace his router with a fairly cheap TP-LINK or something that runs one of the larger DD-WRT builds (openVPN is an add on in DD-WRT, so routers with small flash memory will not be able to support it). To the brother there would be no difference and he could swap the F1000 back in if there are any network problems that require Eircom assistance (they'll obviously not be able to troubleshoot non Eircom CPE stuff).

All you need for the VPN is 2x 25 quid Mikrotik rb750s, lots more powerful and configurable than pis

murphaph

Oh, I didn't realise they were so cheap.

What sort of VPN do they run? Some proprietary thing so I MUST use a pair of these? (obviously openVPN would be nice as then it doesn't matter what hardware is at each end, as long as it can run openVPN)

If eVision doesn't require it my preferred solution for the remote end would definitely be a router that can run openVPN (basically a DD-WRT router) as then my brother will not be tempted to unplug the additional box and if he unplugs the router his own net would be gone so he'd notice and rectify.

mass_debater

murphaph wrote: »

What sort of VPN do they run?

Any

Mikrotik are an enterprise router, support most routing, switching and layer 2 protocols. Prepare to be blown away with options
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Category:VPN

It's easier to buy 2 and configure them with their own protocols though

murphaph

Yeah I think I'd have to buy 2 and use their own protocols as their openVPN implementation doesn't support UDP according to that wiki.

mass_debater

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah I think I'd have to buy 2 and use their own protocols as their openVPN implementation doesn't support UDP according to that wiki.

In that case setup a standard PPTP or L2TP vpn and tunnel their own EOIP (Ethernet over IP) protocol over it. Eoip offers no encryption and therefore cannot be used on it's own but does exactly what it says on the tin

AlanS181824

I'm laughing at the idea of someone actually wanting eVision....:rolleyes:

No but seriously, this seems like a great idea, just posting here to see how ye get one and best of luck!