Solid Fuel cooker boiler install viability

jodaw

I have a well enough insulated space on about 95m2 to heat and at the moment it is served by a sealed gas fired central system with Calor Gas. The cost of running the system is ridiculously expensive.

I have been reasearch the possibility of solid fuel systems but for a long time now i could not come up with a solution. The eastern european solid fuel boilers seem to be a good job but I cannot install one as i have no garage/boilers house and outside space is limited.

Boilers stove were a possibilty but there would be a huge upheaval in the installation of such a system.

I have now come across to closest to a viable alternative as i have seen.



available from below

https://kotly.com.pl/produkt-kitchen-boiler-moderator-10-kw-3272.html?l=en

It has a small footprint and is lightweight and is for use indoors. The spec sheet says it is for heating up to 100m2 floor space and it has the added benefit of hotplates.

I was thinking of freeing up space in the kitchen to install this directly below the hot water cyclinder and running a flue up through the house and out the roof.

Could this boiler be installed easily enough by a solid fuel specialist and connected into the sealed central heating system?

Would the below diagram with the firebird heat exchanger system do the trick?



I would need a new expansion tank in the attic and would need to buy and twin coil cyclinder for the hot press.

I would also consider ditching the sealed system altogether and just running the solid fuel system. Benefits

- use current hw cyclinder
- Avoid use of heat exchanger
- less complicated install

I think this would add up to decent savings.

I would be worried about the 10kw being sufficient to do the job but looking across other solid fuel threads people are more then happy with similiar boilers.

Obviously they would require more legwork than external boilers with hopper feeds but i do not mind doing this since a stove would be equal legwork.

So to any experts out there would a system like this be a good job?

Dtp1979

jodaw wrote: »

I have a well enough insulated space on about 95m2 to heat and at the moment it is served by a sealed gas fired central system with Calor Gas. The cost of running the system is ridiculously expensive.

I have been reasearch the possibility of solid fuel systems but for a long time now i could not come up with a solution. The eastern european solid fuel boilers seem to be a good job but I cannot install one as i have no garage/boilers house and outside space is limited.

Boilers stove were a possibilty but there would be a huge upheaval in the installation of such a system.

I have now come across to closest to a viable alternative as i have seen.



available from below

https://kotly.com.pl/produkt-kitchen-boiler-moderator-10-kw-3272.html?l=en

It has a small footprint and is lightweight and is for use indoors. The spec sheet says it is for heating up to 100m2 floor space and it has the added benefit of hotplates.

I was thinking of freeing up space in the kitchen to install this directly below the hot water cyclinder and running a flue up through the house and out the roof.

Could this boiler be installed easily enough by a solid fuel specialist and connected into the sealed central heating system?

Would the below diagram with the firebird heat exchanger system do the trick?



I would need a new expansion tank in the attic and would need to buy and twin coil cyclinder for the hot press.

I would also consider ditching the sealed system altogether and just running the solid fuel system. Benefits

- use current hw cyclinder
- Avoid use of heat exchanger
- less complicated install

I think this would add up to decent savings.

I would be worried about the 10kw being sufficient to do the job but looking across other solid fuel threads people are more then happy with similiar boilers.

Obviously they would require more legwork than external boilers with hopper feeds but i do not mind doing this since a stove would be equal legwork.

So to any experts out there would a system like this be a good job?

The firebird unit does up to 12kw I think. If it's a gas boiler you have then you'd be better off going with that due to the 2 waters not mixing, as solid fuel will create sludge water in the coming years which would destroy your gas boiler. But that unit in your diagram has now changed I think. You'll also need a galvanised steel expansion tank for the attic, not the plastic type. It would be a very expensive system to install. If you add up the price of the cooker, firebird unit, materials, labour, new flue @100 per meter and the solid fuel used to burn your talking about thousands. You'd buy a lot of gas for that. Have you looked into upgrading your boiler and installing heating controls?

jodaw

Dtp1979 wrote: »

The firebird unit does up to 12kw I think. If it's a gas boiler you have then you'd be better off going with that due to the 2 waters not mixing, as solid fuel will create sludge water in the coming years which would destroy your gas boiler. But that unit in your diagram has now changed I think. You'll also need a galvanised steel expansion tank for the attic, not the plastic type. It would be a very expensive system to install. If you add up the price of the cooker, firebird unit, materials, labour, new flue @100 per meter and the solid fuel used to burn your talking about thousands. You'd buy a lot of gas for that. Have you looked into upgrading your boiler and installing heating controls?

The boiler is only a few years old and it is an efficient condenser unit. The controls are a big issue but i assumed it would not make a huge difference. No thermostats in house so boiler running off its own settings. No readiators have trv's. Also i do not have the option to heat only the hot water tank and also there is no immersion. At this moment in time if i want hot water summer or winter i have to heat the entire circuit and the tank together. After some testing the boiler runs flat out for the first hour and a cost of over 3 euros and then runs for about 35-40 mins in the hour at a cost of about 2 euro for every hour after. I will probably have a bill for about 800 euro at the end of January. I have access to free wood so i am looking for something better and would be willing to invest 5-6K.

Edit: Why did firebird change the system already?

Do heating controls make a big difference to boiler run time?

Dtp1979

jodaw wrote: »

The boiler is only a few years old and it is an efficient condenser unit. The controls are a big issue but i assumed it would not make a huge difference. No thermostats in house so boiler running off its own settings. No readiators have trv's. Also i do not have the option to heat only the hot water tank and also there is no immersion. At this moment in time if i want hot water summer or winter i have to heat the entire circuit and the tank together. After some testing the boiler runs flat out for the first hour and a cost of over 3 euros and then runs for about 35-40 mins in the hour at a cost of about 2 euro for every hour after. I will probably have a bill for about 800 euro at the end of January. I have access to free wood so i am looking for something better and would be willing to invest 5-6K.

Edit: Why did firebird change the system already?

Do heating controls make a big difference to boiler run time?

No idea why firebird changed it to be honest. Probably for easier installation. Have you free firewood forever? If so then maybe bite the billet and do it. If not I wouldn't. And yes controls would make a huge difference. Me personally, I would zone your house to living/bedrooms/water or upstairs/downstairs/water. If your house is well insulated then this will only benefit it better.

jodaw

No i dont have free wood forever, but i really was'nt thinking of the install on that basis. I would probably prefer running it on coal to space out the reload times.

My thinking behind the desire for solid fuel would be as follows.

I would have prefer a hopper unit and just fling in bags of coal every few days in winter and to have 24 hour heat.

This cooker unit will require more legwork and i assume it would be not capable of an overnight burn. So not ideal it this aspect but workable.

I would be hoping to run the system to keep the house at a decent temperatur throughout the day in winter at a cost of about 50 euro per week and possible using it for 24 hour water in summer for 15 per week or maybe adding a solar system for summer water.

It would add up to significant savings over the gas.

Can you link me to somewhere regarding savings with heating control installations?

mark_18tp

look at a previous thread on solid fuel boilers, i just installed a defro boiler automatic with coal hopper
best money i ever spent, I'm a plumber by trade and was considering a boiler stove and I'm glad i installed the defro hands down.
no mess inside the house and less pipework etc.
send you a pm on info etc

Dtp1979

jodaw wrote: »

No i dont have free wood forever, but i really was'nt thinking of the install on that basis. I would probably prefer running it on coal to space out the reload times.

My thinking behind the desire for solid fuel would be as follows.

I would have prefer a hopper unit and just fling in bags of coal every few days in winter and to have 24 hour heat.

This cooker unit will require more legwork and i assume it would be not capable of an overnight burn. So not ideal it this aspect but workable.

I would be hoping to run the system to keep the house at a decent temperatur throughout the day in winter at a cost of about 50 euro per week and possible using it for 24 hour water in summer for 15 per week or maybe adding a solar system for summer water.

It would add up to significant savings over the gas.

Can you link me to somewhere regarding savings with heating control installations?

Sorry I don't have any links.

mark_18tp

honeywell evohome is a good system for zoning. expensive but you don't have to the wreck the house trying to separate feeds to upstairs rads. downstairs rads. hot water etc.
but if you install a solid fuel boiler most require an open circuit so plumbing it can be critical.

jodaw

Last time i looked the calor gas costs about 2.5 times the price of natural gas.

In weather like at time moment where heat i almost always with a child in the house, will the control make a different if i want to heat all zones or are the savings related to switching off/on zones.

For example if my boiler is running flat out for 35-40mins in the hour at the moment once the system is up to temp, how long would in be running with a top notch heating control system installed?

Dtp1979

jodaw wrote: »

Last time i looked the calor gas costs about 2.5 times the price of natural gas.

In weather like at time moment where heat i almost always with a child in the house, will the control make a different if i want to heat all zones or are the savings related to switching off/on zones.

For example if my boiler is running flat out for 35-40mins in the hour at the moment once the system is up to temp, how long would in be running with a top notch heating control system installed?

If the controls are installed properly, when the thermostat for the running zone is satisfied it shuts the boiler off. If the house is very well insulated then it will take a long time for the temp to drop and for the boiler to come on again.