ESB meter recording units when main switch off

Cilar

Hello, we moved to a new house a few month back. First ESB bill was very high. After some "investigations", when looking at the ESB meter, we noticed it's still recording units even when the main switch is off (everything off in the house).

I see two connections getting out of the meter (see picture), could someone know whether that's expected?

There is only one switch box in the house. We're suspecting the neighbor house is connected to our meter. We're in a terraced house. If that's the case, would would be responsible for wiring the meter correctly, ESB owning the meter, the builder, someone else?

pixbyjohn

First thing to do is call the fault department of Electric Ireland and report what you have found so as they have the evidence before the culprit removes the second feed from the meter.
Service: 1850 372 372
8am-8pm Mon - Sat
Email: service@electricireland.ie

braddun

put clip on amp meter on it,did you turn off the main breaker and other breakers and watch the dial



to save money,put cfl lamps up,also put plug strips with switches on all your appliences like tvs,chargers,etc and turn off at night,



https://www.pieg.com/MemberService.cfm?p=85

frankmul

pixbyjohn wrote: »

First thing to do is call the fault department of Electric Ireland and report what you have found so as they have the evidence before the culprit removes the second feed from the meter.
Service: 1850 372 372
8am-8pm Mon - Sat
Email: service@electricireland.ie

I don't think the ESB will do a lot. It seem like all electricity been used is metered. No concern for the esb if that is the case. It looks like a underground cable for the second cable. Does the op have a shed on the site.

2011

Cilar wrote: »

I see two connections getting out of the meter (see picture), could someone know whether that's expected?

This is not permitted. It suggests that a second load is connected to your meter. If this second load is not yours a prosecution may follow.
Contact ESB Networks immediately.

There is only one switch box in the house. We're suspecting the neighbor house is connected to our meter.

That is a definite possibility.

If that's the case, would would be responsible for wiring the meter correctly, ESB owning the meter, the builder, someone else?

Impossible to say. This has the potential to "go legal". The previous owner may have been paying someone else's bill for years. On that basis be careful what you say.

lynchieboy

There is something suspicious about the second cable, any idea where it is going? I would disconnect it and just leave the house cable connected, it looks like a wire armored cable which indicates it is probably buried in the ground outside the house heading off to it's destination. A shed, granny flat maybe?

Cilar

braddun wrote: »

put clip on amp meter on it,did you turn off the main breaker and other breakers and watch the dial



to save money,put cfl lamps up,also put plug strips with switches on all your appliences like tvs,chargers,etc and turn off at night,



https://www.pieg.com/MemberService.cfm?p=85

I turned off the main breaker when looking whether the ESB was running, and it's still going. I put LED lighting everywhere and A++ appliances in the house when moving (quite a big investment tbh), this would not explain 300 euros bill (immertion is off, heating is gas). I see 300 units gone in 7 days from monitoring the meter. It must be connected to the neighbor house, I don't see another explaination.

I'll get ESB again, but I heard that they bill 400 euros if the meter is not faulty (which is probably not the problem here - meter is recording units for 2 houses I believe).

lynchieboy

Disconnect the second cable and let the other person contact the ESB.

2011

Interesting article here.

Report any suspected meter tampering confidentially by phoning Lo-call 1850 211 827; emailing: REVP.esbnetworks@esb.ie or ringing the ESB Newtworks emergency number 1850 372 999.

2011

lynchieboy wrote: »

Disconnect the second cable and let the other person contact the ESB.

Don't do this. The cable is live and it is not possible to make it dead without breaking an ESB seal which is illegal. You also destroy the evidence.

mr67stag

As stated do you have an outdoor shed or outside lights.
If you dont have any Thing like this as in power remote/outside house then somethng is connected that should not be.
From the look of the second cable it known as an swa used for underground and outside applications.
Have a close look at metre seal as it can be broken and PUSHED back in looks good from distance.
You should contact the ESB immediately ,even though the power is metered they may give you some brush off if so tell them your metre is not reading all the power and they will come pretty quickly , believe me.

2011

mr67stag wrote: »

As stated do you have an outdoor shed or outside lights.
If you dont have any Thing like this as in power remote/outside house then somethng is connected that should not be.
From the look of the second cable it known as an swa used for underground and outside applications.
Have a close look at metre seal as it can be broken and PUSHED back in looks good from distance.
You should contact the ESB immediately ,even though the power is metered they may give you some brush off if so tell them your metre is not reading all the power and they will come pretty quickly , believe me.

+1
Good post.

Cilar

No outdoor shed, no outside lights. I'll push again on ESB to take a look. Thanks you all for confirming it's definitely looking suspicious.

braddun

from looking at your photo it looks like two feeds coming out
call the electricity company to disconnect it

2011

Cilar wrote: »

No outdoor shed, no outside lights. I'll push again on ESB to take a look. Thanks you all for confirming it's definitely looking suspicious.

Email them at the address above. Quote your MPRN number, you will find this on your bill. Attach the above photo to the email and shout "Fire in the hole!"

paulheu

Frankly the way this is wired up it looks like a serious hack job to me.. Can't say for sure about regulations here, but back home (in The Netherlands) this installation would be illegal and you would actually be liable for not reporting it once you notice this.

wush06

Do you have an extension?

Kevin McCloud

Your rec can disconnect that second cable as in that particular meter there is a cover where the tails are connected and this is where the rec connects and should put on his own seal. There is also an isolating switch under this cover.
The information of having to cut esb seals is incorrect in this example, also no tampering so to speak has occured here.

Cilar

No extension (and no outdoor shed, no outdoor light). It's a 3 story house btw, not sure this change anything. When I turn the main breaker off, everything (on all floors) go off but ESB meter still recording units.

punisher5112

How much is the meter spinning when everything is off.

Have a look at different times of the day turn all yours off and see is it same speed or faster especially in the evenings as if its tapped then it will be drawing more.

Do you know any electricians that could take a look before esb get back.

Would be great to catch the person if it is a tap off from yours.

keep us posted op.

ted1

Is there any visible signs of the cable outside the box, footpaths that had being chased out etc?

2011

This is a long shot:
Turn off the main switch on your board and see if your electric cooker or instantaneous electric shower works (assuming that you have these units). This is not how those units should be wired, but people do crazy things and they are the only loads that would require a cable that size that you are likely to have.

Kevin McCloud

Ringing the esbn or getting them to look at the installation is pointless as no tampering has been done or their side.

2011

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Your rec can disconnect that second cable as in that particular meter there is a cover where the tails are connected and this is where the rec connects and should put on his own seal. There is also an isolating switch under this cover.

Not in this meter, it is the older type.

The information of having to cut esb seals is incorrect in this example, also no tampering so to speak has occured here.

Even if this is the case, why destroy the evidence?

2011

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Ringing the esbn or getting them to look at the installation is pointless as no tampering has been done or their side.

Connecting your premesis to someone else's meter is tampering and is an offense (fraud).

Kevin McCloud

2011 wrote: »

Not in this meter, it is the older type.

Incorrect look again.

Even if this is the case, why destroy the evidence?

What evidence no tampering has occured.

meercat

I would advise getting a registered electrical contractor out first

I would check the cable sizes just in case the original electrician put 2 cables in instead of a 16mm main cable
(He should not have done this)

The Esb leave this type of meter to be sealed by a registered electrical contractor.
Can you post a clearer picture of meter and seals
There should be 2 seals

If you contact Esbn they may request a new certificate so if you have a contractor on board first I think it's best

If he checks cables and consumer unit and finds nothing wrong then contact Esbn.

I agree that if there is a problem then do not disconnect services before Esbn call out.

Kevin McCloud

2011 wrote: »

Connecting your premesis to someone else's meter is tampering and is an offense (fraud).

Its not an esbn tampering issue.

frankmul

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Your rec can disconnect that second cable as in that particular meter there is a cover where the tails are connected and this is where the rec connects and should put on his own seal. There is also an isolating switch under this cover.
The information of having to cut esb seals is incorrect in this example, also no tampering so to speak has occured here.

The original rec seal should be there. I'm not sure if it is traceable.

Cilar

punisher5112 wrote: »

How much is the meter spinning when everything is off.

Have a look at different times of the day turn all yours off and see is it same speed or faster especially in the evenings as if its tapped then it will be drawing more.

Do you know any electricians that could take a look before esb get back.

Would be great to catch the person if it is a tap off from yours.

keep us posted op.

It's spinning at different rate over the day. It a terrace of new houses built in 2006 and left vacant until this year with the crisis, so I think the problem must have been with the builder rather than my neighbor. We bought this summer at the same time as our neighbor. The house next door was the show house, not sure whether it might have been rented between 2006 and when my neighbor bought it this year, and something dodgy might have happened.

Kevin McCloud

frankmul wrote: »

The original rec seal should be there. I'm not sure if it is traceable.

Its not there, very few rec seals them tbh.

2011

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

What evidence no tampering has occured.

See post 25.
This meter should only measure the premesis owned by the bill payer, if it is not the system had been tampered with. I assume that your point is that the meter itself has not been interfered with, however the point is that it is likely that an offence has been committed.

punisher5112

Cilar wrote: »

It's spinning at different rate over the day. It a terrace of new houses built in 2006 and left vacant until this year with the crisis, so I think the problem must have been with the builder rather than my neighbor. We bought this summer at the same time as our neighbor. The house next door was the show house, not sure whether it might have been rented between 2006 and when my neighbor bought it this year, and something dodgy might have happened.

That is quite possible it was wired in for an external board or lighting for show house at the time. Or as houses been vacant could have left it open for someone to connectdefo worth getting checked as even if nobody has tapped in the meter has to be faulty.

frankmul

I'd say that the a temporary supply was hooked up during construction and never disconnected.

Kevin McCloud

2011 wrote: »

See post 25.
however the point is that it is likely that an offence has been committed.

One cannot assume that, what the op needs is get an rec to investigate the installation not the esbn.

Par1

ESB will not do anything for you because the cable connection is on the load (customer) side so contacting ESB is useless as they will tell you to hire a registered contractor. Also a contractor would not have to break any seal as badly advised by an earlier post. There is a customer isotation switch within that meter that isolates supply. If their is a seal on the customers side (which there is not as per photo) then that seal can be removed by any registered contractor.

Experienced posters here should know better than telling you to contact ESB as the issue is a civil matter because the connection is clearly made on the load side of the ESB meter. The ESB are paid for the electricity so electricity has not been unmetered.

You need to:

1. Get an independent witness to photo existing setup.
2. Contact registered electrical contractor and get a report.
3. Be very careful and make no assumptions until cause is found

If the cause is found not to be your fault then you may be entitled to have money reimbursed to you and at that stage you will be more enlightened.

frankmul has offered some very good advice in post 4

Best of luck with it and i hope all goes well.

2011

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

One cannot assume that

I have assumed nothing I stated what is "likely".

I'm going to lock this for the moment.
Some suggestions are not legal or safe.
OP send me a PM when it has been investigated and I will unlock.
I think we all want to know how you got on.

2011

Update due shortly

Stoner

2011 wrote: »

Update due shortly

Hurry up, tools down at 16:30

2011

I contacted ESB Networks, who immediately put me through to a very helpful individual in their Revenue Protection Department.

I was asked to email the thread link to them, following this I was advised as follows:

• The photo looks very suspicious and they would like to investigate immediately.
• If the second cable shown in the OP’s photo feeds another premises and this is used to avoid payment of an electricity bill by a third party this falls under the definition of meter tampering and therefore would be an offence.
• The correct course of action is to report suspected cases of meter tampering directly to ESB Networks who will put you in touch with their Revenue Protection Department. Alternatively this department can be contacted directly on 1850211827
• Contacting a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC) first is not the correct course of action.
• Reporting suspicious instances such as this will trigger an investigation. The customer will not be charged for this investigation regardless of the outcome of said investigation.
• Disconnecting, switching off or touching anything in the meter cabinet is contrary to the advice given by ESB Networks and could impede an investigation.



Shortly afterwards ESB Networks contacted me and told me that the OP took the correct course of action by contacting ESB Networks and an investigation has started.

2011

Thread unlocked.
Enjoy

Stoner

Par1 wrote: »

Experienced posters here should know better than telling you to contact ESB as the issue is a civil matter because the connection is clearly made on the load side of the ESB meter. The ESB are paid for the electricity so electricity has not been unmetered.

Good call 2011, used your experience for the good of the forum.

Cerco

There is a good lesson to be learned here.
All shades of opinion can be posted here on an open forum. Some more definitive than others.
I am sure all are posted with the best of intentions to answer the questions.
When a strong difference of opinion arises, it is difficult for the casual reader to decide which is right. It is only by following regular posters you can get an understanding of their experience and then form your own opinion.
Well done 2011 in resolving this issue.

Bruthal

The actual OP question might not be completely resolved just yet, as we dont actually know where the cable is going.

But advising someone who has 2 cables leaving the metered side of the meter, and who say their meter is still spinning with all power in the house off, and who`s bills appear excessive, to contact esb networks, as there may possibly be some sort of fraud, was a sensible course of advice imo.

Volvoair

Cerco wrote: »

There is a good lesson to be learned here.
All shades of opinion can be posted here on an open forum. Some more definitive than others.
I am sure all are posted with the best of intentions to answer the questions.
When a strong difference of opinion arises, it is difficult for the casual reader to decide which is right. It is only by following regular posters you can get an understanding of their experience and then form your own opinion.
Well done 2011 in resolving this issue.

nothing is resolved yet.....
we still don't know who is connected to what meter .
or who made the illegal connection

Cerco

Volvoair wrote: »

nothing is resolved yet.....
we still don't know who is connected to what meter .
or who made the illegal connection

You are correct but the issue as to who to contact and who will investigate is certainly resolved.it is only a matter of time before the OP will get the final answer. There is no debate about that.

punisher5112

It feels like Christmas eve. I can't wait to see what has been going on op.

Hopefully if it is a tap the person that is stealing your electricity gets slapped with a nice fine. Also some componsation would be nice.

Cilar

I sent an email last night with the picture to REVP.esbnetworks@esb.ie . I've not got any response back to the mail, but I phoned the ESB customer service this afternoon and now I'm waiting for their 'scheduling' team to contact me to come see the meter, hopefully this week as the meter is still running quite fast and I'd like to avoid another big bill, so it's quite stressful.. Thanks everybody for the help. I also contacted the builder on the situation, but they've been quite slow in the past on other problems, so not very hopeful to get this solved quickly through them.

TheBody

It's very dodgy looking.

The cable must have been put in when it was built. Very odd.

fred funk }{

My guess would be that the original builder wired in a temporary supply for street lighting or on site traffo and someone at a latter stage probably found the cable in their garden and connected it up.

frankmul

Cerco wrote: »

You are correct but the issue as to who to contact and who will investigate is certainly resolved.it is only a matter of time before the OP will get the final answer. There is no debate about that.

Well done to 2011 for sorting out who to contact but I still think that the ESB won't get to the bottom of this. I feel that they may have lost out revenue from stand charges but there was no theft of electricity from the ESB. I hope they get the bills sorted out for the op. It's just a case of wait and see.