New parlour position

just do it

Here's a sketch of what I'm thinking. New parlour (in red) fitting in with existing layout of farm with minimum of disruption i.e. cost. Currently the only building present is a 4 bay single open-sided shed with creep area. The only concrete areas are the handling yard behind the shed and the silage slab.

The positioning of the parlour is such that the existing slatted tank can act as the holding yard and easily washed into. Enough space has to be left for tractor access to the agitation point - 7m should be sufficient?

Cow flow is as numbered 1->2 etc. Potentially the silage slab could be converted to cubicles. For extra slurry storage I'd go for an over ground tank to the right of the handling yard. The ground here is much lower so the existing slurry tank would act as a holding tank that gets pumped into the overground store.



An alternative cow flow pattern is 1 -> 5 -> parlour -> 4 and position the parlour where the number 5 is on the diagram. This would allow feeding supplementary bales before going back out to paddocks. But it would also mean having to construct a tank to catch washings etc.

All thoughts welcome.

onyerbikepat

You do have the itch.:D So you are serious about this. What kind of scale do you have JD1? Are you going at this full -time?

kowtow

just do it wrote: »

Here's a sketch of what I'm thinking. New parlour (in red) fitting in with existing layout of farm with minimum of disruption i.e. cost. Currently the only building present is a 4 bay single open-sided shed with creep area. The only concrete areas are the handling yard behind the shed and the silage slab.

The positioning of the parlour is such that the existing slatted tank can act as the holding yard and easily washed into. Enough space has to be left for tractor access to the agitation point - 7m should be sufficient?

Cow flow is as numbered 1->2 etc. Potentially the silage slab could be converted to cubicles. For extra slurry storage I'd go for an over ground tank to the right of the handling yard. The ground here is much lower so the existing slurry tank would act as a holding tank that gets pumped into the overground store.



An alternative cow flow pattern is 1 -> 5 -> parlour -> 4 and position the parlour where the number 5 is on the diagram. This would allow feeding supplementary bales before going back out to paddocks. But it would also mean having to construct a tank to catch washings etc.

All thoughts welcome.

On the present layout will you be able to send cows back across to the crush etc. from the parlour exit (across the 'new cubicle shed' site I think?) reasonably easily? One man job?

dar31

personally i would prefare for the cows to exit out of the building before turning, if they can see daylight, or paddocks when exiting they wont clutter the exit, and cows coming in will enter quicker as they think they are going to grass not milking, iykwim

just do it

onyerbikepat wrote: »

You do have the itch.:D So you are serious about this. What kind of scale do you have JD1? Are you going at this full -time?

The opportunity to buy in is next year. I originally thought it would be 2016 or 2017.

I'll probably start worth as little as 25-30 cows and build numbers from there.

just do it

kowtow wrote: »

On the present layout will you be able to send cows back across to the crush etc. from the parlour exit (across the 'new cubicle shed' site I think?) reasonably easily? One man job?

Will have to think about that. Hadn't considered it. With low numbers to start with it won't be an issue. Area they exit into is large enough that it would be easy set up a holding pen.

just do it

dar31 wrote: »

personally i would prefare for the cows to exit out of the building before turning, if they can see daylight, or paddocks when exiting they wont clutter the exit, and cows coming in will enter quicker as they think they are going to grass not milking, iykwim

I know what you mean but that would mean the prevailing wind blowing straight through. It's an exposed site on the west coast.

Deepsouthwest

just do it wrote: »

Here's a sketch of what I'm thinking. New parlour (in red) fitting in with existing layout of farm with minimum of disruption i.e. cost. Currently the only building present is a 4 bay single open-sided shed with creep area. The only concrete areas are the handling yard behind the shed and the silage slab.

The positioning of the parlour is such that the existing slatted tank can act as the holding yard and easily washed into. Enough space has to be left for tractor access to the agitation point - 7m should be sufficient?

Cow flow is as numbered 1->2 etc. Potentially the silage slab could be converted to cubicles. For extra slurry storage I'd go for an over ground tank to the right of the handling yard. The ground here is much lower so the existing slurry tank would act as a holding tank that gets pumped into the overground store.



An alternative cow flow pattern is 1 -> 5 -> parlour -> 4 and position the parlour where the number 5 is on the diagram. This would allow feeding supplementary bales before going back out to paddocks. But it would also mean having to construct a tank to catch washings etc.

All thoughts welcome.

I know ur thinking of starting with 25 cows, but don't build anything based on ur starting numbers. I'd prob go with a cow per acre on ur milking block.ur collecting yard should be that large slatted area which will double as ur feeding passage, ideally the cows should exit through here as well, for the many times u'll need to hold the cows after milking. One passage in and out of this to the paddocks. U want to keep passage/yards for scraping and cleaning to minimum. Is there walls and roof on the silage slab?

Timmaay

Definitely design in a drafting pen of some sort at the exit of the parlour. This should be a relatively long drafting pen, heading out parallel where the cows go out to the paddock, this way the cow who you drafted tends go down the end of the pen, and not back into the parlour.

mf240

Is that existing silage slab roofed ??

Id move the crush to the exit of the palour runing alongside the silage pit. Then extend the creep area to put in cubicles so that they can eat on the existing tank.

Id use the silage pit as calving pens and a calf shed.

Best of luck with your new enteprise.!

just do it

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I know ur thinking of starting with 25 cows, but don't build anything based on ur starting numbers. I'd prob go with a cow per acre on ur milking block.ur collecting yard should be that large slatted area which will double as ur feeding passage, ideally the cows should exit through here as well, for the many times u'll need to hold the cows after milking. One passage in and out of this to the paddocks. U want to keep passage/yards for scraping and cleaning to minimum. Is there walls and roof on the silage slab?

How do you see the slatted area acting as both entry and exit - divide it in 2? Or holding milked cows until the last row have entered the parlour?

Yeah 25-30 is the starting number but will build towards 70 in time.

No walls or roof on the silage slab so it's future use is open to suggestion.

Timmaay

If the finances allow why not jump up to 50 short term? Same labour, more income.

just do it

mf240 wrote: »

Is that existing silage slab roofed ??

Id move the crush to the exit of the palour runing alongside the silage pit. Then extend the creep area to put in cubicles so that they can eat on the existing tank.

Id use the silage pit as calving pens and a calf shed.

Best of luck with your new enteprise.!

Yeah I get your suggestion about the crush but I won't be moving anything this year as I want to do it on a shoestring budget. However I want to make sure it is well positioned allowing me to expand in a modular fashion.

Rather than having cubicles in the creep area I was considering feeding them both sides of the slats. Convert the silage slab to cubicles and they can walk in and out to feed.

just do it

Timmaay wrote: »

If the finances allow why not jump up to 50 short term? Same labour, more income.

Finances wont allow and to be honest I'd be happier for year 1 to start at just 30 - learn to walk before running. I'll still be working full time so will be relying on a part time labour unit.

The other limitation is slurry storage although I've only just heard last week you can get permission from the Department to export it to another farm. That would be handy for a few years.

How many xbreed cows can you feed at 38m feed barrier?

Timmaay

Can the cows get from the parlour exit back to the current cattle crush? They will need to somehow for likes of AI etc. You could loop them down around the current silage slab but the less walking the milker needs to do between rows the better. One possible solution short term would be the drafting pen, and run the cows back through the parlour backwards after the milking.

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

Finances wont allow and to be honest I'd be happier for year 1 to start at just 30 - learn to walk before running. I'll still be working full time so will be relying on a part time labour unit.

The other limitation is slurry storage although I've only just heard last week you can get permission from the Department to export it to another farm. That would be handy for a few years.

How many xbreed cows can you feed at 38m feed barrier?

1.5ft of feeding space per cow.
Is there a local discussion group near you jdi?
If there is ask them for a visit they can offer a lot of advice and help you with oarlour position

just do it

Timmaay wrote: »

Can the cows get from the parlour exit back to the current cattle crush? They will need to somehow for likes of AI etc. You could loop them down around the current silage slab but the less walking the milker needs to do between rows the better. One possible solution short term would be the drafting pen, and run the cows back through the parlour backwards after the milking.

For year 1 that's what I'd do. Hold them and run them around to the crush at the end.

Another option I was considering is have a passage between the parlour and silage slab on the drawing. Then they would come off the future cubicles onto this passage into the slatted shed for feeding. During milking time this passage could then also double up as a passage back to the crush.

caseman

When your building your parlour make the pit big enough for 8 or 10 units. 6 units can be slow.
Will it be a new parlour? lots of second hand ones out their, i bought a 10 unit recording plant,feeders augers and meal bin for 4 grand
at the building work at the moment.

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

1.5ft of feeding space per cow.
Is there a local discussion group near you jdi?
If there is ask them for a visit they can offer a lot of advice and help you with parlour position

I'm sure there is and I know most the local guys. It would be a good idea alright. Must look into it.

However I don't think it's rocket science. The main criteria I see are:

• cow flow
• truck access
• space for future extension

I'm not willing to sink another tank at this stage hence I need to be able to discharge all washings back to the current slatted tank.

As your suggesting I need to get out and visit a few farms though. I just want to have something in mind first.

onyerbikepat

Better and safer (ecpecially if kids around) if the truckdriver doesnt have to reverse at all. Just drive in beside tank and continue driving out the same way.
Would the COOPS have suggested layouts?

just do it

caseman wrote: »

When your building your parlour make the pit big enough for 8 or 10 units. 6 units can be slow.
Will it be a new parlour? lots of second hand ones out their, i bought a 10 unit recording plant,feeders augers and meal bin for 4 grand
at the building work at the moment.

Second hand and I don't intend building anymore than what's necessary at the moment. However it's being positioned in such a way as future extension is easy.

just do it

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Better and safer (ecpecially if kids around) if the truckdriver doesnt have to reverse at all. Just drive in beside tank and continue driving out the same way.
Would the COOPS have suggested layouts?

Currently with the layout in the drawing he'll have to reverse. However it wouldn't take much to give him a wide enough circle that he'll be able to keep driving. Again not year 1 though!! The lorry that visits my neighbour calls at 5.30-6am and I seem to be the only gob**** around here up at that hour!

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

1.5ft of feeding space per cow.

Music to my ears. With the smaller cows I'm considering that gives me enough space for upto 80 cows.

Timmaay

just do it wrote: »

Second hand and I don't intend building anymore than what's necessary at the moment. However it's being positioned in such a way as future extension is easy.

Certainly get a parlour with a big enough pump and big enough milk lines for 8/10 units, almost no extra cost now.

Injuryprone

just do it wrote: »

Another option I was considering is have a passage between the parlour and silage slab on the drawing. Then they would come off the future cubicles onto this passage into the slatted shed for feeding. During milking time this passage could then also double up as a passage back to the crush.

I'd definitely put in that passage. Put a gate at the start of it near the exit from the parlour and you'd only have to bring each cow you're drafting past this gate. You wouldn't be wasting time bringing them one by one around the silage pit. That'd get fairly annoying after a while.

How many cows do you currently have storage for? When you add in the washings from the parlour and runoff from the open yards between the slats and the parlour, there mightn't be a whole lot of room left for cows

kowtow

Would it be an option to have that passage back into the feed barrier, and have a locking head yoke for (some) of them to take care of AI etc?

We're working with similar cow numbers and - for me - drafting outside the parlour was the biggest of the priorities - much more important than numbers of units etc... my thinking was that I would save more time in being able to draft single handed, and get the falls & angle drains absolutely perfect to shorten wash down than I would ever be able to do by milking with more than 5 or 6 units.

we ended up taking down (with the help of last years storms) a granary beside the parlour to create a little drafting yard, flipping the parlour exit from the old side to the new drafting yard - didn't like the old one anyway because it had a ramp like a ski slope - now in the process of laying out the new little yard & moving the existing crush e.t.c. - planning on 3 parallel passages in the yard, middle one is main cow exit, RHS is crush, LHS will be a small treatment pen with a bit of staggered rump rail & perhaps locking head yokes for AI etc.

two gates in the middle passage should be enough to draft from the pit.

Bit of a start / stop exercise as we are already milking a few on one side of the parlour but at least it gives me plenty of time to think about cow flow as I am going along.

Bullocks

Will the cows be lying on the slats full time over the winter of will they have cubicles ?

just do it

Injuryprone wrote: »

I'd definitely put in that passage. Put a gate at the start of it near the exit from the parlour and you'd only have to bring each cow you're drafting past this gate. You wouldn't be wasting time bringing them one by one around the silage pit. That'd get fairly annoying after a while.

How many cows do you currently have storage for? When you add in the washings from the parlour and runoff from the open yards between the slats and the parlour, there mightn't be a whole lot of room left for cows

Yeah the passage is a must with a drafting gate like you describe. Slurry storage is a limitation all right but I'm hoping to export it for the first winter anyway. The cows will have to pay for the extra storage

just do it

Bullocks wrote: »

Will the cows be lying on the slats full time over the winter of will they have cubicles ?

Cubicles.

Injuryprone

just do it wrote: »

Yeah the passage is a must with a drafting gate like you describe. Slurry storage is a limitation all right but I'm hoping to export it for the first winter anyway. The cows will have to pay for the extra storage

When you say export, do you mean draw it to someone else's tank that has spare capacity?? Never heard of that before. Are you planning on drawing it back again so as you don't loose out on the nutrients?

just do it

Injuryprone wrote: »

When you say export, do you mean draw it to someone else's tank that has spare capacity?? Never heard of that before

Yup. Only heard about it last week and need to look into it. Was talking to a lad that does it - helps with his nitrates limits. Just need to apply to the Department.

keep going

If it was me I think id be siting the parlour between the road and the yard , yard side of the drain it would allow you use existing yard and crush and would be easy to connect up to road wat to paddocks.down the line you could put your housing near it and use passageways as collecting yards .also it keeps the cows away from where the silage slab is.you dont want be turning bulling cows around the place trust me I know

just do it

keep going wrote: »

If it was me I think id be siting the parlour between the road and the yard , yard side of the drain it would allow you use existing yard and crush and would be easy to connect up to road wat to paddocks.down the line you could put your housing near it and use passageways as collecting yards .also it keeps the cows away from where the silage slab is.you dont want be turning bulling cows around the place trust me I know

You'd be right except for there is a slope from left to right in the diagram and the drain is probably around the same level or even below the floor of the 8' deep slatted tank. The current location on the drawing allows washings to be easily directed back into the tank as the ground naturally falls this way. Also there will be little ground works required to erect a parlour. The location you mention I feel suits an overground slurry store in time as that is a current limitation.

just do it

Some info on slurry export

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2014/december/title,79235,en.html

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/ruralenvironment/environment/nitrates/2013/Record3RecordofMovementofOrganicFertilisers2014240114.pdf

just do it

Existing set-up


New set-up


Saw a few pics on the internet/ magazines and it set me thinking about this design. The first pic shows the existing set-up with the green area being roofed. The main considerations are:
- simplicity
- good flow
- minimal disruption
- cheapest option
- easily expanded in the future

The new set-up allows everything to either be scrapped or washed into the existing slatted tank. The holding yard for the parlour is outside when coming off the paddocks or off the slats when housed inside. An issue with the earlier design was a holding pen. With the 3-4m move of the parlour a handy holding yard controlled with a drafting gate from the pit is now included. The dairy is positioned to allow access for the lorry. Without wholesale changes this is the only location for the dairy.

Now to phase 2 and winter housing. The cubicles off the slats with the feed rail outside on the silage slab I think will work well. The silage slab will be easily scrapped down to the tank. Very little construction required to set this up and I'll keep the shed open for now, maybe just extend the canopy.

This set-up allows for 34 cubicles. Expansion will require extra slurry storage and cubicles. The current design allows for this, as well as extension of the parlour.

Muckit

Once you get the plan right, I'd put the whole lot under one big shed. Parlour, feed rail, the lot.

It will cut down on your slurry storage requirements, not to mention giving you great comfort. Do it once. Do it right. Should get it up handy enough as it straight forward design.

You have no N arrow on drawing but assume you have new feed face faced so that the wind won't be blowing in!

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

Once you get the plan right, I'd put the whole lot under one big shed. Parlour, feed rail, the lot.

It will cut down on your slurry storage requirements, not to mention giving you great comfort. Do it once. Do it right. Should get it up handy enough as it straight forward design.

Yup, but the roof might have to wait. I'm determined that the cows pay for most of this i.e. no further bank loans

Muckit

I assume if you were expanding again you'd put a similar cubicle shed above the existing one opening onto feed rail shed?

I'd also go with prefabricated cubicle beds. You be up and running once they off the lorry. Akso gives option to shift them again if things aren't working out with layout or if all comes to all and you want to convert back, it's not a major problem.

Keep things flexible anyway would be my advice for what it's worth.

Timmaay

Those movable cubicle beds were a large premium over normal cublices the last time I remembered pricing them up, I'd be more inclined to put in permanent ones now in a place that you are definitely happy with.

Muckit

just do it wrote: »

Yup, but the roof might have to wait. I'm determined that the cows pay for most of this i.e. no further bank loans

You'll find you'll save little by doing this. All you want are posts and roof. Are you planning to roof parlour. If you are it's a no brainer and you've fine airy shed.

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

I assume if you were expanding again you'd put a similar cubicle shed above the existing one opening onto feed rail shed

It's in the future so we'll see. I'd say the existing silage slab is the spot for them. The other option is just extend the existing ones and have 2 feed rails on the silage slab.

Like you point out I've hopefully designed it that keeps my options open. The other consideration that isn't apparent in the sketches is there is a decent slope from left to right so that is in the back of my mind as well. And finally the prevailing wind which blows here for 350 days of the year

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

You'll find you'll save little by doing this. All you want are posts and roof. Are you planning to roof parlour. If you are it's a no brainer and you've fine airy shed.

The only building I have to roof immediately is the dairy. Sure there will be something over the parlour but building spec is the next stage. At the moment I just want to get the layout right. I'm not sure if the new dairy QA will be a pre-requisite for new entrants so that will have to be taken into consideration. All I want is the simplest and cheapest means of getting milk from cow to lorry. My preference is to put as much of the mulla as possible into quality cows and then the milk cheques pay for improvements.

visatorro

fair play jdi, new plans look simple which exactly what you want. do you know how much its going to cost you altogether? I think if you talk to every farmer they will tell you something theyd like to improve in their yard. cow flow/direction.
have you started building yet? have you sourced cows yet?
would kind of agree with you in that you don't need everything under the one shed yet, anyway.
where will you keep calves and youngstock? will you calf everything outdoor. am working fulltime myself so I know the need to keep everything simple

just do it

visatorro wrote: »

fair play jdi, new plans look simple which exactly what you want. do you know how much its going to cost you altogether? I think if you talk to every farmer they will tell you something theyd like to improve in their yard. cow flow/direction.
have you started building yet? have you sourced cows yet?
would kind of agree with you in that you don't need everything under the one shed yet, anyway.
where will you keep calves and youngstock? will you calf everything outdoor. am working fulltime myself so I know the need to keep everything simple

Will be built to allow for a roof like Muckit describes. I've hopefully designed it so it's modular if you know what I mean. No plan to have calves till next year so that's next autumn/ winters headache. Have old sheds elsewhere that can be used for the calves. Will have to come up with something for calving pens though.

Muckit

It'll be a hard slog for a while. That's why l'd be pushing for putting roof up now. If it has to be done anyway. Young family, milking, house and I assume you are keeping on the day job to fund things for the time being?. .... it's a lot going on and the last thing you need is the rain pelting you in the face and you wondering what the f**k your at at 5.30am!!!!!

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

It'll be a hard slog for a while. That's why l'd be pushing for putting roof up now. If it has to be done anyway. Young family, milking, house and I assume you are keeping on the day job to fund things for the time being?. .... it's a lot going on and the last thing you need is the rain pelting you in the face and you wondering what the f**k your at at 5.30am!!!!!

"Short term pain, long term gain"

Muckit

'More power to you'

Timmaay

It's all a trade off, whereas you might need to don the wet gear more often you won't have the stress of quite as high bank loans, or less juggling cash flow. But equally so I hate hardship and do not like putting off jobs which will make the job easier and will definitely need doing at some stage.

Panch18

JDI can I ask a question, it looks from your drawing that both sides of the parlour are not in line with the slatted holding yard, is this right and could it be altered?

Also when cows come in roadway it looks like they enter slatted area at top by parlour, which means they would then walk to far end of holding pen and be facing away from parlour entrance, wouldnt it be better to have them go down by crush and into holding yard from bottom so they walk up it and are head first at the parlour entrance.

maybe i am reading diagram wrong

just do it

Panch18 wrote: »

JDI can I ask a question, it looks from your drawing that both sides of the parlour are not in line with the slatted holding yard, is this right and could it be altered?

Yes that's right. I originally had it lined up but this off-set arrangement has two advantages. First is it allows for a holding area for cows not going straight out and second it makes the agitation point more accessible.

Also when cows come in roadway it looks like they enter slatted area at top by parlour, which means they would then walk to far end of holding pen and be facing away from parlour entrance, wouldnt it be better to have them go down by crush and into holding yard from bottom so they walk up it and are head first at the parlour entrance.

maybe i am reading diagram wrong

You're right but the idea of the arrows in the diagram isn't clear. When they're coming off grazing they won't go into the slats and will just need to make a 90 degree turn into the parlour. However when they're housed they'll come directly off the slats/ cubicle shed.

just do it

Timmaay wrote: »

It's all a trade off, whereas you might need to don the wet gear more often you won't have the stress of quite as high bank loans, or less juggling cash flow. But equally so I hate hardship and do not like putting off jobs which will make the job easier and will definitely need doing at some stage.

It all comes down to cost how much will get done. However in case I'm being misread there will be a roof over the parlour!