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Doctors told pregnant woman her baby had died … Two days later they found a heartbeat

  • 12-12-2014 12:12am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭


    THE HSE HAS apologised to Dublin woman Aimee Nolan and her family, after mistakenly telling the expectant mother that her baby had died — only to admit two days later that the hospital made a mistake.

    26-year-old Aimee, who now lives in Offaly, attended the Midland Regional Hospital in Portlaoise on Monday of this week, after her local GP told her she couldn’t find a heartbeat.

    She came in, and straight away she scanned me.

    "When she put the thing on me to scan me, straight away I saw that the baby had a heartbeat, because it was flickering away."

    “They all just kept looking at each other [as if to say] how was this woman told that her baby was dead, and we can all clearly see that there’s still a heartbeat there.”

    Her baby was fine. She was told: “That’s a strong heartbeat.”

    Aimee didn’t know how to react…

    Joy, anger, shock. I didn’t know whether to laugh, cry, lash-out or ask ‘what the hell happened?… Why were we told our baby was dead?

    “The GP did say not to panic and explained the baby could be too far down to hear,” she told Midlands 103 today, adding:

    You automatically fear the worst, don’t you?

    With her husband and three-year-old son Jack in tow, Aimee headed to hospital, and was waiting for around two hours before a doctor arrived to carry out another scan.

    She, basically, was scanning me for literally two seconds and, just as blunt as you like, said ‘I’m sorry, but we can’t detect a heartbeat’ and that your baby is dead.

    And while she could “hardly take it in” herself, her young son was also hugely upset to see his mother in such a state.

    God love him. I was just sitting there sobbing. He was like — ‘why are you crying, mammy? Why are you crying?

    The doctor told Aimee to come back the following week to discuss the next steps. One of the options, she was told, was a D&C procedure.

    On returning home, Aimee and her husband broke the news to their family and friends. And after reflecting on what had happened, they decided they didn’t want to wait another week before heading back to the hospital.

    They put in a phone call, and an earlier appointment was arranged for Wednesday morning.

    The nurse and consultant who spoke to the couple “were really sympathetic” — but Aimee was surprised when there was a “knock on the door” during their meeting, and a senior doctor showed up to carry out a further scan.


    Review

    In a statement, the HSE said it was aware of the circumstances of the case and that the matter was being “fully reviewed”.

    “A Consultant Obstetrician met with the family yesterday and apologised,” the statement said.

    The management of the Maternity Services at MRHP wish to apologise for any distress caused to the woman concerned and her family.

    The HSE said that patients who attend its Early Pregnancy Assessment Unit out of hours are typically assessed by the non-consultant hospital doctor on call and “if clinically well are advised to attend EPAU at the next earliest appointment for further assessment”.

    In accordance with national clinical guidelines “a diagnosis of miscarriage must be confirmed by a consultant prior to the instigation of a plan of management. This measure ensures the safe management of early pregnancy problems at the Maternity Unit”.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/portlaoise-baby-1830076-Dec2014/
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/hse-urged-to-learn-lessons-from-after-death-of-baby-1.2032717

    A new low for the HSE. When and where will there be accountability for their incompetence?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Portlaoise hospital has an atrocious record for maternity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    That article is confusing me. It says first that it was her GP rather than the HSE who told her a heartbeat couldn't be detected. Then it says a scan was done in the hospital and straightaway it was evident there was a heartbeat... then further down it says someone in the hospital scanned for two seconds and said there was no heartbeat.

    It's not very well written.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13



    Never as long as there is not huge political change. The rot starts from the top.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    Can't wait till they bring in robot doctors and we can cut the mistake rate down to 0%. Course then people will really have cause to complain about doctors cold hands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    So they gave her bad news first then good news :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Literally 2 seconds?

    Literally?




    Ara shure god love da poor cratur.

    Seems like something is missing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    That article is confusing me. It says first that it was her GP rather than the HSE who told her a heartbeat couldn't be detected. Then it says a scan was done in the hospital and straightaway it was evident there was a heartbeat... then further down it says someone in the hospital scanned for two seconds and said there was no heartbeat.

    It's not very well written.

    That was Dingus' heres fault, not the writers. I bollixed up the link. On a new phone and only getting used to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    That article is confusing me. It says first that it was her GP rather than the HSE who told her a heartbeat couldn't be detected. Then it says a scan was done in the hospital and straightaway it was evident there was a heartbeat... then further down it says someone in the hospital scanned for two seconds and said there was no heartbeat.

    It's not very well written.

    That thing about "was scanning me for literally two seconds and, just as blunt as you like, said ‘I’m sorry, but we can’t detect a heartbeat’ and that your baby is dead." is complete bull. I've had three children and countless scans and "literally two seconds" of a scan is nonsense. It's often taken well over a minute to find any trace of a pregnancy in me. She's saying that the doctor literally pressed the scanner against her stomach and immediately pronounced her baby dead without looking. This is an outright lie.

    I do believe she was misdiagnosed with a miscarriage which must be a horrifying experience but it does happen frequently. Doctors and scanning equipment aren't infallible. However, this article is pure hyperbole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    That was Dingus' heres fault, not the writers. I bollixed up the link. On a new phone and only getting used to it.

    The struggle is real, Rob.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,514 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    It feels like a bit of hyperbole all right, maybe a bit exaggerated for the sake of the article. Would a doctor really tell bluntly in front of your child that your foetus is dead? Were they the actual words used?

    Of course it would be awful to get a misdiagnosis like that, but it happens quite often all over the world, that's why we have second opinions. A lot of medical diagnosis is educated guesswork.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭loh_oro


    What the hell is going on in Portlaoise hospital ? One thing after another when it comes to maternity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    What a non-story! I can't believe this made the news. It doesn't say how far on she was, but it's very common for scans to miss the heartbeat in early pregnancy. Especially considering these were external rather than internal scans.

    The reason she'd have been told to come back in a week would have been to take more measurements to ensure the foetus hadn't grown in the meantime. In which case they obviously wouldn't have proceeded with the D&C or any other procedure.

    I've been in her position before - the hospital staff were very kind and sensitive about it, but they said it was unlikely to be a viable pregnancy when they couldn't get the heartbeat - in that case, it was just too early on. I'd imagine it happens every day in the bigger hospitals - it's why they try to avoid scanning any woman early on in the pregnancy. It just causes unnecessary worry in a lot of cases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    can't find a heartbeat does not equal dead.

    GP was clearly struggling to find heartbeat for whatever reason and got the mother to go for a scan to confirm, seems like the right thing to do to me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    qt3.14 wrote: »
    Can't wait till they bring in robot doctors and we can cut the mistake rate down to 0%. Course then people will really have cause to complain about doctors cold hands.

    It's another revelation about poor practice after a string of fatal errors in that area, it is understandable and preferable that people denounce it publicly.

    Finally the truth about the standard of care in maternity services in Ireland is emerging, it's a great thing. Hopefully future Mums and babies will benefit.

    In 2005 after experiencing dire care myself I was shocked at how women had been singing the praises of my obstetrician before the birth of my child. A majority of these women had experienced complications while giving birth, and what a hero he was to have dealt with that. Two court sentences and a lot of damages later (think millions) (not involving me), the man is retired, and I am convinced that some of these complications were caused by the poor standard of care the man was delivering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    can't find a heartbeat does not equal dead.

    GP was clearly struggling to find heartbeat for whatever reason and got the mother to go for a scan to confirm, seems like the right thing to do to me

    Yeah that's what I gathered too. GP couldn't find heartbeat, told her not to panic but go to hospital for scan and more thorough check, mother feared the worst as is natural, hospital found heartbeat and all was well. Article is very badly written though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    She, basically, was scanning me for literally two seconds and, just as blunt as you like, said ‘I’m sorry, but we can’t detect a heartbeat’ and that your baby is dead.

    Look at the way quotation marks are selectively used there despite the entire thing being portrayed as an exact depiction of what happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Tasden wrote: »
    Yeah that's what I gathered too. GP couldn't find heartbeat, told her not to panic but go to hospital for scan and more thorough check, mother feared the worst as is natural, hospital found heartbeat and all was well. Article is very badly written though.

    My understanding from the RTE news snippet, is that the GP getting no heartbeat was not the issue, but that during a further appointment in hospital the "death" of the foetus was wrongfully confirmed.
    Haven't read the link I must say.

    I thought the Mum was saying she was given another appointment to terminate the miscarriage, and that's when it was discovered the baby had grown bigger, and thatnthe fluttering on the scan was in fact a heartbeat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    "Ah sure I was literally only sliding into the MRI scanner and the doctor said "You have one week to live", Joe"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    I remember I used to read things like the Weekly World News and the Daily Sport for a bit of a laugh now and then, but at the same time I used to think thank fcuk we haven't this bottom of the barrel print first, check facts later (if we can be bothered) journalism in Ireland . . .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Again it might be worth checking the snippet on the news with the lady herself explaining what happened. I was a bit distracted watching but Will check again. Rarely read the Journal and the likes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 czipownik


    Maybe it's time to dismantle this whole HSE thing, right? I am native of Poland and although no system is perfect, the present setup out there brings in competition. And yes, under competition poor performers are rooted out.

    There is mandatory public healthcare insurance contribution deducted from your paycheck in the first place as opposed to Ireland.

    Public healthcare is overseen by the NFZ (Narodowy Fundusz Zdrowia = National Healthcare Fund). Public and private hospitals, health centres, GP and consultant practices, etc. are contracted every year by the NFZ. Contractors get money allocated for each procedure and the National Healthcare Fund reviews performance of each unit on annual basis. This way, maternity unit of Portlaoise midlands hospital would have been closed already due to no contract renewal.

    Of course there are some issues in Poland like low sums of money allocated for certain procedures, hospitals getting into debt, surgeries cancelled after summer time due to money dry out, etc. But at least medics and managers feel much more pressure to perform well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Reoil


    “The GP did say not to panic and explained the baby could be too far down to hear,” she told Midlands 103 today, adding:

    You automatically fear the worst, don’t you?

    So, she wasn't told it was dead...
    She jumped the gun?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,737 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    The quotation marks around what the nurse allegedly said mean that it's impossible to work out exactly what she said. My reading would be that she couldn't find a heartbeat and told the patient to come back in a week when options would be discussed including a D&C if necessary. This seems sensible to me,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Her GP sent her to the maternity over in Portlaoise for a scan as he couldn't hear the heart beat.
    She was scanned in Portlaoise after a 2 hour wait.
    She was told there was no heartbeat, that the foetus had stopped growing at 9 weeks and that she was 14 weeks pregnant.
    She was told she could have a D+C to remove it or take a pill but that she'd have to go back the following week.
    Two days later she went back as she couldn't bear carrying a dead baby around inside her.
    They scanned her again before going ahead with the treatment.
    There was a heart beat and the baby was the correct size for a 14 week pregnancy.
    There was no scan images, measurements or records of her first scan found.

    Pretty disgusting to be honest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭liquoriceall


    This happens all the time?? You go for a scan, they tell you come back next week for further scan and possible decision of d&c if they still cant find heartbeat & no further growth. How in gods name this nonsense got published as a story is beyond me! The worst thing is nobody will refute this crap only issue the blanket statement of not commenting on individual cases.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Presumably nothing will make this right except a hundred thousand million euro payout from the state? Medicine is not an exact science. Sometimes bad things happen - that's life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Scary that a mistake like this can be made and doesn't even bear thinking about the outcome had a second check not been done but the whole thing also seems very exaggerated. Could there be a claim on the horizon?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭conorhal


    That article is confusing me. It says first that it was her GP rather than the HSE who told her a heartbeat couldn't be detected. Then it says a scan was done in the hospital and straightaway it was evident there was a heartbeat... then further down it says someone in the hospital scanned for two seconds and said there was no heartbeat.

    It's not very well written.

    Rubish article about a serious issue and all too common issue, the timeline is presented far more clearly by The Journal.

    She visited her GP for a scan but no hearbeat was found, she was told not to worry too much and booked for a second scan at the hospital.
    That scan seems to have been rather perfunctory and she was told that yes indeed her baby had died.

    It wasn't until she was being prepped for an abortion that a further scan determined that the baby was still in fact alive.

    What isn't clear is wheter or not the third scan is standard procedure (I assume it must be). But the second scan was yet another display in a long line of HSE incompetence lately. Yes a foetal heartbeat can be hard to find early in a pregnancy, this woman however was in the second trimester (14wks), to miss a foetal heartbeat at that stage is incompetent.

    The care of the young, the elderly and the disabled by the state in this country continues to be pretty hit and miss.


  • Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    how has this part been missed :confused:
    “The GP did say not to panic and explained the baby could be too far down to hear,” she told Midlands 103 today,

    Really, we have absolutely no idea what happened. Do we?

    Edit: Ah, Conorhal's post fills in some of the gaps.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    how has this part been missed :confused:



    Really, we have absolutely no idea what happened. Do we?

    She was told after that, that the baby had stopped growing at 9 weeks and that it was 5 weeks dead


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Gongoozler


    conorhal wrote: »
    The care of the young, the elderly and the disabled by the state in this country continues to be pretty hit and miss.

    Well done on trying to make a link between two completely unrelated things.

    A person makes a mistake therefore all services provided by the overseeing body are doomed to fail? Nice logic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I read this yesterday and thought it was horrible. Irish hospitals have a horrible track record. however after reading some of the responses here it seems like it might not have been as bad.

    http://rs1img.memecdn.com/context_o_857936.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Gongoozler wrote: »
    Well done on trying to make a link between two completely unrelated things.

    A person makes a mistake therefore all services provided by the overseeing body are doomed to fail? Nice logic.

    Yeah, it was probably just a 'system error or failure', nothing to see here, carry on!

    I don't see the services provided by the overseeing body (HSE) covering themselves in glory lately, unless you think that disabled people, pregnant women and vunerable children have all just had a really bad streak of luck lately with our health services.

    The reality is that HSE oversight, staffing levels and practice has been shown time and time again to be consistantly poor and that culture comes from the top.
    When it comes to healthcare in the country, I would seek a second opinion for an ingrown toenail, then I'd ask for a third opinion.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    The article on the rte website gives a much clearer view of what happened


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I don't believe this story.

    I cant imagine any nurse or doctor lightly announcing a baby dead without having at least the head doctor person having a second look. The fact that there was no record of the first scan at all is a dead (or not dead as it were) giveaway that this is pure fabrication.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I don't believe this story.

    I cant imagine any nurse or doctor lightly announcing a baby dead without having at least the head doctor person having a second look. The fact that there was no record of the first scan at all is a dead (or not dead as it were) giveaway that this is pure fabrication.

    Have you dealt with the EPU in Portlaoise?? They are notorious. And so many women (4) have had still births while delivering under Portlaoise maternity. Not so long ago, it was revealed they'd hired a doctor to work in a+e who turned out to be not qualified at all.http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/family-settles-action-over-baby-s-death-at-portlaoise-hospital-1.1989520


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I haven't been to portloise but I still find it hard to believe that a healthcare professional wouldn't double and triple check something of this magnitude.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I have been to that hospital and I am not surprised at all


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    This is a really odd story. I've had multiple issues during pregnancy resulting in a lot of scans and feral monitoring. It's by no means unusual to take ages to find the heartbeat, even in late second trimester.

    The returning for a further scan before D and C sounds like standard policy. I've had growth issues and had to wait two weeks to be sure that the baby was growing as that's the time interval required (horrific two weeks I will say)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I don't believe this story.

    I cant imagine any nurse or doctor lightly announcing a baby dead without having at least the head doctor person having a second look. The fact that there was no record of the first scan at all is a dead (or not dead as it were) giveaway that this is pure fabrication.

    Maybe the manner of the disclosure is exaggerated but don't assume our maternity service doesn't make mistakes like this. There was a story on Prime Time about a year or two ago of women who had possibly induced miscarriage of healthy babies because machines in a particular hospital wasn't working properly.

    I've had two children in the Irish system and the scanning machines are so old in some cases that its hard to read them properly. I have two scans taken a week apart, one from my hospital and one from a private clinic and the quality of the scan from the private clinic is far superior to the one from the hospital. No wonder mistakes happen when staff are using substandard equipment.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭conorhal


    I haven't been to portloise but I still find it hard to believe that a healthcare professional wouldn't double and triple check something of this magnitude.

    You must have had very few dealing with the HSE or lucky if you think that's the case.
    I know sombody that faced a very dangerous delivery because she's diabetic, which requires very specific prenatal care. She was hooked up to a broken ECG that had no paper in it. Her mother, who happens to be a nurse, challenged this only to be told that the machine was working perfectly. Naturally she knew better and ate the face of the nurse in the delivery room who eventually admitted that she couldn't source a functioning ECG. What she had effectively done was hook up a high risk patient to a broken monitor for the sake of appearances and only bothered to remedy the situation when a fuss was made by sombody with expert knowledge who challenged what was going on.

    The scary thing is that I know a couple of medical professionals who tell you things like this all the bloody time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Isolt


    Was it the GP or the hospital that couldn't find the heartbeat? The article is a little confusing.

    It is not uncommon for a GP to have difficult detecting the heartbeat with a handheld doppler. If this happens you're sent off into the hospital for a scan.

    I lost my first baby and had two scans over a 10 day period to ensure that the pregnancy was definitely not viable. I don't know how it could take two seconds. On the scan where they confirmed no heartbeat and that the baby was lost they did and external and internal exam to be certain. It was only after that second scan that they arranged a D&C.

    If this story is true then thank God the D&C did not go ahead. Having been in that situation I would have given anything to be told that the scan was wrong and my baby was alive and well. So as awful as the story here was for this woman, it often has a worse ending. (that is not to take away from the serious matter of the hospital making a terrible error) I hope the rest of her pregnancy goes well without any issues!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 czipownik


    what i can suggest is to buy a good baby heart monitor and check on your own regulary.
    Advanced baby heart monitors show hearbeat from 12 weeks on.

    GP's explanation that he can't find the heartbeat cause the baby is too far is simply ridiculous.
    Miidwife in Limerick was unable to find hearbeat at 33 weeks on my sister in law... no further comment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Are you Czech?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    Human error is an unavoidable reality unfortunately.

    Obviously sufficient steps should be taken to minimise it and resolve it when it does occur though, which it appears has not been the case here (I've read up on it a bit further).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    Human error is an unavoidable reality unfortunately.

    Obviously sufficient steps should be taken to minimise it and resolve it when it does occur though, which it appears has not been the case here (I've read up on it a bit further).

    Want to share, or are you going to leave it at that?

    It's not really necessarily human error. It could have been that due to the size of the baby, or the position of the baby, or the position of the placenta, or other reasons, the heartbeat simply wasn't visible by Dobbler or abdominal ultrasound - nothing to do with the interpretation of the medical professional(s) involved.

    Next step is to do an internal transvaginal ultrasound, and when it was clear that the mother was in no immediate medical danger (e.g. an ectopic pregnancy or septic infection), I think the common response in all hospitals is to leave it a few days or a week before doing this, to maximise the chances of (hopefully) seeing more on the transvaginal scan ... and also to allow the miscarriage (if it is one) to pass naturally, rather than having the woman go through the unpleasant experience of a D&C or abortion pills/injections.

    When she couldn't wait the week, it sounds like she was facilitated immediately with a follow-up scan, and thankfully they found the heartbeat on that one. That doesn't mean that the professional doing the first scan had done it any differently or that they'd done anything wrong.

    How many mothers in her position would be delighted with that outcome - that a heartbeat was found in the subsequent scan! I wish her the best in her pregnancy, and I understand it must have been an upsetting experience for her, but I think it's so unprofessional of the national press to run with her story when - if they'd done their research - they'd realise that this happens literally every day in every pregnancy unit in Ireland.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Want to share, or are you going to leave it at that?

    It's not really necessarily human error. It could have been that due to the size of the baby, or the position of the baby, or the position of the placenta, or other reasons, the heartbeat simply wasn't visible by Dobbler or abdominal ultrasound - nothing to do with the interpretation of the medical professional(s) involved.

    Next step is to do an internal transvaginal ultrasound, and when it was clear that the mother was in no immediate medical danger (e.g. an ectopic pregnancy or septic infection), I think the common response in all hospitals is to leave it a few days or a week before doing this, to maximise the chances of (hopefully) seeing more on the transvaginal scan ... and also to allow the miscarriage (if it is one) to pass naturally, rather than having the woman go through the unpleasant experience of a D&C or abortion pills/injections.

    When she couldn't wait the week, it sounds like she was facilitated immediately with a follow-up scan, and thankfully they found the heartbeat on that one. That doesn't mean that the professional doing the first scan had done it any differently or that they'd done anything wrong.

    How many mothers in her position would be delighted with that outcome - that a heartbeat was found in the subsequent scan! I wish her the best in her pregnancy, and I understand it must have been an upsetting experience for her, but I think it's so unprofessional of the national press to run with her story when - if they'd done their research - they'd realise that this happens literally every day in every pregnancy unit in Ireland.

    That doesnt really tally with the RTE report
    Aimee Nolan, originally from Dublin but living in Co Offaly, attended the Midland Regional Hospital Portlaoise on Monday 8 December as a result of a referral from her GP, who had concerns about the baby's heartbeat.

    Following a two-hour wait, a doctor carried out a scan on Ms Nolan, who is 14 weeks' pregnant.

    She was informed there was no heartbeat and that her baby appeared to be at developmental stage of nine weeks.

    The doctor said it appeared the baby had not grown for the past nine weeks.

    Ms Nolan was then told her baby was dead.

    She was asked to return to the hospital next Monday to discuss her options of either a D&C procedure (dilation and curettage) or medication to induce labour.

    Ms Nolan's husband contacted the hospital the following day and requested an earlier date for a D&C.

    They were given an appointment for Wednesday.

    When Ms Nolan and her husband returned on Wednesday they were met by staff from the maternity unit.

    Discussions took place about the options available to Ms Nolan.

    A second scan was undertaken and it was discovered there was a heartbeat, the baby was alive and was the correct size for 14/15 weeks.

    The Nolans were also told that protocols state that when there was no heartbeat detected on the previous scan a second opinion should have been sought on the day.

    However, this did not happen and Ms Nolan was sent home and told to return a week later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    Yeh I went off to get the RTÉ link but posted my comment by accident, then got distracted by TV. :)
    Done by riffmongous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh



    How many mothers in her position would be delighted with that outcome ... they'd realise that this happens literally every day in every pregnancy unit in Ireland.

    I hope this is not the comment of a medical practitioner... that would illustrate the poor standards and expectations that are responsible for such poor practice in Ireland.

    Is it normal ?
    Is it a reasonable expectation from the maternity services ?
    Is that policy ?
    "Do the scan, if you don't find a heartbeat, tell patient the foetus is probably dead, if it turns out it wasn't at the double-check, patient will be delighted."

    That's shocking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    I hope this is not the comment of a medical practitioner... that would illustrate the poor standards and expectations that are responsible for such poor practice in Ireland.

    Is it normal ?
    Is it a reasonable expectation from the maternity services ?
    Is that policy ?
    "Do the scan, if you don't find a heartbeat, tell patient the foetus is probably dead, if it turns out it wasn't at the double-check, patient will be delighted."

    That's shocking.

    As stated already in earlier posts, it's very unlikely the doctor told the woman that the baby was probably dead. It seems from the wording of the article that this is the interpretation she took from the lack of a visible heartbeat, rather than the doctor actually saying it as a fact.

    Like I've said, I've been in this woman's position, where the heartbeat couldn't be found. The midwives and consultants involved in each case were sympathetic, and also realistic about the likely outcomes.

    Certainly, we discussed the possibilities of what would happen in the coming days/weeks if it was indeed a miscarriage, and a D&C would have been mentioned.

    I can see how a distraught woman could come away from the discussion with the thoughts in her head that her baby was dead and she needed a D&C to remove it - this doesn't mean that it was an accurate reflection of the discussion that took place. In highly stressful situations like this, many people will only retain what they consider to be the most relevant points - and not always accurately.

    The story is pure scaremongering (and I blame the tabloids - not the mother), and I feel for anyone currently experiencing a miscarriage or similar who might be frightened reading about it. But I'd be very surprised if anyone has gone through a D&C recently without more than one scan and/or blood test to confirm the pregnancy loss, and to confirm the need for a D&C rather than a natural miscarriage.


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