Winter Average Speed

Jim Stynes

Good article here http://galibier.cc/4-steps-to-speed-slowly/
Some great quality gear on that site as well!

What speed does your club run do? Two groups at the minute, one was going 18.5mph for 55mile (one tough climb in there) last week and the other was going 16mph for 50 mile. I don't really want to be going over 16mph at the minute and having to push myself, looking to peak around july for La Marmotte and pushing like mad in the first group seems crazy at this time of the year.

on_the_nickel

As an aid to those who've forgotten.....
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=18+miles+in+km

Jim Stynes

on_the_nickel wrote: »

As an aid to those who've forgotten.....
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=18+miles+in+km

Haha sorry I keep forgetting you boys down south use kms. 18.5mph is around 30kmph

Chips Lovell

It really depends on the terrain and the individuals in the group. 30kph on a flat spin may have Person A in the red but be in the right zone for Person B.

on_the_nickel

TBH, it's going to depend on a number of factors - your current fitness, size of group, how hilly the route is, how long the individual spends on the front.

In a flat, group ride with 10 or so strong riders, some of the group might never go above 60% of MHR, some might spend a lot of time above.

07Lapierre

For the Marmotte you need endurance, not speed..

crosstownk

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Haha sorry I keep forgetting you boys down south use kms. 18.5mph is around 30kmph

Being up north is no excuse..........

Rule 24 wrote:

Speeds and distances shall be referred to and measured in kilometers.
This includes while discussing cycling in the workplace with your non-cycling coworkers, serving to further mystify our sport in the web of their Neanderthalic cognitive capabilities. As the confused expression spreads across their unibrowed faces, casually mention your shaved legs. All of cycling’s monuments are measured in the metric system and as such the English system is forbidden.

codie

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Good article here http://galibier.cc/4-steps-to-speed-slowly/
Some great quality gear on that site as well!

What speed does your club run do? Two groups at the minute, one was going 18.5mph for 55mile (one tough climb in there) last week and the other was going 16mph for 50 mile. I don't really want to be going over 16mph at the minute and having to push myself, looking to peak around july for La Marmotte and pushing like mad in the first group seems crazy at this time of the year.

Go out and enjoy the spin and don't be worrying about avg speed.Thats my advise to you.

on_the_nickel

codie wrote: »

Go out and enjoy the spin and don't be worrying about avg speed.Thats my advise to you.

The real question at this time of year is "what's the average number of coffee stops?"

Jim Stynes

Think the problem is that we need three groups. Group one are pushing too hard and the other group are going too slow. A lot of fellas getting dropped from the first group. I will be slowing down and trying to build my base miles at the minute.

harringtonp

28-31 for us, usually flat to rolling with 1 or 2 not too long or steep climbs. Typically 6-12 in group.

Work rate on winter spins was lower than what I was ideally looking for (2.5-2.8 W/KG for most of the ride) so started going out myself.

Missed the social aspect though so put slicks on my MTB and have since done 3 spins this way. Spins now sometimes harder than what I'm ideally looking for but you can never get it perfect and would prefer it this way.

I'd now be a big advocate of fitter club members riding gates on club spins to slow them down.

braddun

your never going to win the Olympics or tour de france at that speed

harringtonp

braddun wrote: »

your never going to win the Olympics or tour de france at that speed

100 years ago you would have

Koobcam

Don't think the average speed is particularly relevant. It's really about how hard you are working-you could be averaging 35kph in a large group with a tailwind and a low heart rate, or going much slower with a headwind and a higher heart rate. Personally, I'm trying to keep away from the hills at the moment and not kill myself with hard training, as I've nothing in particular to aim for until at least April. I reckon I'll start throwing in some harder spins after Christmas.

clod71

on_the_nickel wrote: »

The real question at this time of year is "what's the average number of coffee stops?"

and what cake to go for?

kuro_man

Think the problem is that we need three groups. Group one are pushing too hard and the other group are going too slow. A lot of fellas getting dropped from the first group. I will be slowing down and trying to build my base miles at the minute.

After a couple of years of trying to organise groups, I found that the correct number of groups in a cycling club is n+1 where n is the current number of groups that has a member complaining its too slow/too fast/too long/too short. This can also be expressed as (mn/2)-1 where mn = number of members in the club (any lower, it ceases to be a club).

Jim Stynes

kuro_man wrote: »

After a couple of years of trying to organise groups, I found that the correct number of groups in a cycling club is n+1 where n is the current number of groups that has a member complaining its too slow/too fast/too long/too short. This can also be expressed as (mn/2)-1 where mn = number of members in the club (any lower, it ceases to be a club).

I know what you're saying but in this case three groups is reasonable. Top, middle and bottom. Of course within these groups you will have differences of abilities but considering the numbers and differences of abilities then three would be best. The top group is full of the racing men and the other group has beginner women included. Nothing against the women or beginners but the gap is huge!

kuro_man

It won't be long before you are contemplating a fourth group!

JK.BMC

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I know what you're saying but in this case three groups is reasonable. Top, middle and bottom. Of course within these groups you will have differences of abilities but considering the numbers and differences of abilities then three would be best. The top group is full of the racing men and the other group has beginner women included. Nothing against the women or beginners but the gap is huge!

Pretty obvious that you need another group i.e, n+1 equation = happy campers
Maybe you should set it up and show leadership;
That's when it gets interesting....

el tel

Jim Stynes wrote: »

. I don't really want to be going over 16mph at the minute and having to push myself, looking to peak around july for La Marmotte and pushing like mad in the first group seems crazy at this time of the year.

The harder you train now, the better you'll be for the Marmotte. With all due respect, you're not a pro trying to peak for a grand tour.

Jim Stynes

JK.BMC wrote: »

Pretty obvious that you need another group i.e, n+1 equation = happy campers
Maybe you should set it up and show leadership;
That's when it gets interesting....

We have a fella willing and wanting to do it. We will see what happens this weekend.

Jim Stynes

el tel wrote: »

The harder you train now, the better you'll be for the Marmotte. With all due respect, you're not a pro trying to peak for a grand tour.

I disagree. I think it's important you peak at the right time for an event such as the La Marmotte. Same with any sport. My own sport is gaelic football and it is a prime example of planning your training to peak for the championship, no matter what level you are competing at. My view is training hard but training smart and not leaving yourself mentally or physically drained.

I learned the hard way with the paris marathon, trained like mad over the winter months and was flying over those winter months, then got injured and wasted all the hard work. Ended up only able to run 3 weeks before the event and struggled round the course.

el tel

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I disagree. I think it's important you peak at the right time for an event such as the La Marmotte. Same with any sport. My own sport is gaelic football and it is a prime example of planning your training to peak for the championship, no matter what level you are competing at. My view is training hard but training smart and not leaving yourself mentally or physically drained.

I learned the hard way with the paris marathon, trained like mad over the winter months and was flying over those winter months, then got injured and wasted all the hard work. Ended up only able to run 3 weeks before the event and struggled round the course.

I don't see why a half decent cyclist can't maintain Marmotte sufficient fitness all year round. Unless of course they are trying to smash the record or finish at the front.

pedro_colnago

el tel wrote: »

I don't see why a half decent cyclist can't maintain Marmotte sufficient fitness all year round. Unless of course they are trying to smash the record or finish at the front.

I think thats a bit oversimplistic, there is no point or no sense in being mentally fried in June or July. It's not wise to train to your max all year round. That leads to getting mentally drained and verging into the overtraining territory. If u hit that then the last thing ud want to do is sit on a bike and do something like the marmotte or letape de tour.

Lumen

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I disagree. I think it's important you peak at the right time for an event such as the La Marmotte. Same with any sport. My own sport is gaelic football and it is a prime example of planning your training to peak for the championship, no matter what level you are competing at. My view is training hard but training smart and not leaving yourself mentally or physically drained.

I learned the hard way with the paris marathon, trained like mad over the winter months and was flying over those winter months, then got injured and wasted all the hard work. Ended up only able to run 3 weeks before the event and struggled round the course.

Peaking is a specific approach to extract the last couple of percent of performance for a particularly important event in a season of competition over and above what can be sustained for the whole season. IMO it's not necessarily appropriate for a non-competitive event.

It sounds like your marathon training problem was simple overtraining.

Many pro cyclists do three grand tours a year, and many other shorter races in between.

harringtonp

Lumen wrote: »

Peaking is a specific approach to extract the last couple of percent of performance for a particularly important event in a season of competition over and above what can be sustained for the whole season. IMO it's not necessarily appropriate for a non-competitive event.

It sounds like your marathon training problem was simple overtraining.

Many pro cyclists do three grand tours a year, and many other shorter races in between.

Like this definition, racing wise I usually don't have any specific races as goals and rarely do anything to "peak" (national vets was a small exception this year) .... goal is simply to see a small improvement year on year. Focus most of the year around on high intensity short intervals (in short sessions) and firmly believe that if I can add 20 watts from one year to the next on a set of 3 minutes intervals I'll see an overall improvement while racing.

Red Belly

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I disagree. I think it's important you peak at the right time for an event such as the La Marmotte. Same with any sport. My own sport is gaelic football and it is a prime example of planning your training to peak for the championship, no matter what level you are competing at. My view is training hard but training smart and not leaving yourself mentally or physically drained.

I learned the hard way with the paris marathon, trained like mad over the winter months and was flying over those winter months, then got injured and wasted all the hard work. Ended up only able to run 3 weeks before the event and struggled round the course.

Hi Jim,

I'm doing the Marmotte next year. This Summer I reached a point where 100K+ training rides and 130k+ Sportives became relatively straightforward for me. My Winter training goals are to maintain that level of endurance, to get experience of group riding (I'm not in a club but plan to join one in Jan), to improve my bike handling skills (esp descending), to avoid injury (which has plagued previous marathon prep).

I will start ramping up the climbing and the length of long rides gradually from March on, with Wicklow 200 a major pre-Marmotte goal.

I will also be having my bike worked on in the Spring: cotton wheel tape to replace plastic (less likely to melt under heavy braking and cause punctures), new chain and dérailleur to get an 11-32 on the back, switching to 25c tyres. I will also try to improve my mechanical skills!

Rb

Chips Lovell